Sealed Deck: Now An Official Format - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

12 Jul 2006 at 05:25 - 1

EDIT: Sealed Play is apparently the official name. I don't like it, but I guess I'll live with it.

Sealed Play, once a community-created idea, is now an official format, according to ArenaNet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW Front Page

If you're attending Gen Con in Indianapolis this August, plan on taking part in a Guild Wars live tournament. Gen Con will be the first event to host a new sealed-play, 4v4 player-versus-player match-up, and anyone can participate! To sweeten the pot, participants will vie for a $5,000 cash purse. For more details, check out the info page.

Sealed Deck is based of off an idea from the SoF guild, and is based off of Magic: The Gathering. (first, Dodgeball. Now, this. ArenaNet loves their community.)

(ArenaNet calls it "Sealed-Play," but "Sealed Deck" is more politically correct.)

The Rules:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gen Con Rules

Each team is given a set of 64 randomized skill cards to build their team. Once the teams decide upon their character builds and skills, players place 8 cards of their choosing on the stand by their computer and set up their characters using only those skills. Then the fight is on!

Each match is best 2 out of 3 battles and lasts approximately 20 minutes. The winning team earns 3 points and stays to play again, while the losing team earns one point and must pick up their cards and step away from the computers. However, they are welcome to wait for another opening to play for more points. At the end of each qualifying time slot, the team that has earned the most points advances to the semi-finals.

It's about the same difficulty as Magic: The Gathering Sealed Deck, but it's more interesting (in M:TG, you used 55-60/99 (55-60%) cards from your pool; in GW, you use 32/64 of your pool (50%))

However, would Sealed Deck be effective as an official format, just like Heroes' Ascent? Sealed Deck works well for Magic: The Gathering...it should work well here...

I can't wait to read the rest of the rules...

(but from what I can tell, you don't get the free ability to use Ressurection Signets. Therefore, permanent ressurection spells may be too overpowered...)

MentalMidgit

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

12 Jul 2006 at 06:05 - 2

bleh i hated sealed deck at friday night magic...

Makkert

Black Beast of Aarrrrgghh

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

The Biggyverse [PLEB] // Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

12 Jul 2006 at 06:10 - 3

Note that we didn't really launched the idea, but ANet did before us with a a fixed practice round (see here:link). They didn't use a random pool, but kept the same pool for both sides.

So it's too much credit to say '[SoF] ported it to GW from MtG', as ANet had the first test.
We did however brought it to the community with the webtool.

I'm interested in the rules they'll use, as this is something we're pondering about. Clearly this isn't the full rules, as it doesn't cover some things like Res Sig, Charm Animal among others.

-Loki-

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

12 Jul 2006 at 06:13 - 4

The winner will be the first team that's given echo and otyughs cry.

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

12 Jul 2006 at 06:14 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

Note that we didn't really launched the idea, but ANet did before us with a a fixed practice round (see here:link). They didn't use a random pool, but kept the same pool for both sides.

So Sealed Play is the actual name? Ick.

I wish I knew about that article beforehand...

Effendi Westland

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Isle of the dead

[DVDF][LDS]

P/W

12 Jul 2006 at 07:10 - 6

Would love to see this implemented in the game!

Opeth11

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Richmond, British Columbia, Kanada

Demon of the Fall [Opet]

Mo/Me

12 Jul 2006 at 07:13 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by MentalMidgit

bleh i hated sealed deck at friday night magic...

Never got your favourite colours? =D

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

12 Jul 2006 at 13:47 - 8

If A-Net actually published the deck that is being developed by Frog and SoF, they would make a killing in marketing that to us Guild Wars/MtG addicts. I would personally love to have a deck for times I'm away from my computer to help visualize certain skill combos for my various characters.

Ecomancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

12 Jul 2006 at 14:39 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

If A-Net actually published the deck that is being developed by Frog and SoF, they would make a killing in marketing that to us Guild Wars/MtG addicts. I would personally love to have a deck for times I'm away from my computer to help visualize certain skill combos for my various characters.

Agreed, having actual collectible skills cards would be rather fun - make builds on the move etc. Table top Guild Wars anyone?

beanerman_99

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

In the clouds

[Sage]

E/

12 Jul 2006 at 14:46 - 10

could the Sealed Deck ever be implemented into regular Guild Wars play? Like how would you know the other team or players were picking skills from the sealed deck? Maybe they could have a new arena where your skills are randomly chosen and put onto your skill bar (kinda like how they dodgeball game gave you specific skills before the match) and you would have to play with what you are given. This might be fun.

TopGun

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

12 Jul 2006 at 14:54 - 11

I think it would be awesome to have sealed-deck play as the new torny style in Chapter 3. Hell, I'd probably even by the next chapter just for that. Sealed-deck would be a way to cull the cookie-cutter losers out from the community and give the inventive, creative, hot players a chance to finally get out of the sewer that has become Hero's Arena.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

12 Jul 2006 at 15:08 - 12

This is the most putridly awful idea I've heard for GW. Ever.

GW should not become Magic The Fantasy Hockey Card Game 3D.

If this is the slightest teensiest little bit indicative of where ANet is intending to take GW, I'm out.

GW's problem has always been that personal skill is insignificant compared to team build. A team of trained monkeys using the FOTM unbalanced build will always beat a team of top PvP'ers using random classes & skills - because it's all about build, while personal skill matters hardly at all.
The way to fix this would be to increase the importance of personal skill, ie going the Counterstrike: Fantasy route, but what sealed deck does is to diminish personal skill even more by increasing the importance of luck, in the hope that this will allow the random team of top PvP'ers to LUCK OUT and win over the trained FOTM monkeys.

I can't sufficiently express my disgust or how bad I consider this idea to be.

dmndidjit

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

12 Jul 2006 at 15:14 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

If A-Net actually published the deck that is being developed by Frog and SoF, they would make a killing in marketing that to us Guild Wars/MtG addicts. I would personally love to have a deck for times I'm away from my computer to help visualize certain skill combos for my various characters.

The real killing would come every time you had to buy a new set because of a skills balance/fix/update. I'm just not sure who would do the dieing.

Seems like there are a lot of unanswered questions about the event, like what kind of characters will be used, your own or new PvP? What items can be used? Is it one set of 64 random skills among everyone or is it multiple different sets of 64 random skills? Are res sigs factored in? etc, etc, etc. Looks like a lot of it may be based on blind luck.

trf2374

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Fredericksburg, VA

Littleman Clan

W/

12 Jul 2006 at 15:14 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

It's about the same difficulty as Magic: The Gathering Sealed Deck, but it's more interesting (in M:TG, you used 55-60/99 (55-60%) cards from your pool; in GW, you use 32/64 of your pool (50%))

Just to nitpick, but this isn't entirely correct. M:tG sealed deck has a minimum deck size of 40 cards (though no max), but if you're playing competitively, you'll want to use the smallest amount of cards possible.

Ecomancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

12 Jul 2006 at 15:22 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

This is the most putridly awful idea I've heard for GW. Ever.
GW's problem has always been that personal skill is insignificant compared to team build. A team of trained monkeys using the FOTM unbalanced build will always beat a team of top PvP'ers using random classes & skills - because it's all about build, while personal skill matters hardly at all.
The way to fix this would be to increase the importance of personal skill, ie going the Counterstrike: Fantasy route, but what sealed deck does is to diminish personal skill even more by increasing the importance of luck, in the hope that this will allow the random team of top PvP'ers to LUCK OUT and win over the trained FOTM monkeys.

I can't sufficiently express my disgust or how bad I consider this idea to be.

I can't say I agree with you because if personal skill as you put it is so important, then having randomised builds will therefore place greater emphasis on personal skill and not the build. As there will be no FOTM and you have to best utilise limited skillsets personal skill will play vital role. Besides its also a team game; good players on a team will never be as good as a team with good players. Team play is important.

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

12 Jul 2006 at 15:23 - 16

ROFL!! Ooooooh I can't wait to hear the little 12 year olds spam and cry when they get a deck full of BM skills without Charm Animal. Something tells me the Whaaaaambulance will be very busy when this starts up.

Ecomancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

12 Jul 2006 at 15:26 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

ROFL!! Ooooooh I can't wait to hear the little 12 year olds spam and cry when they get a deck full of BM skills without Charm Animal. Something tells me the Whaaaaambulance will be very busy when this starts up.

I don't think it is totally randomised, as in there is a method to the randomisation so that certain skills that require combinations or the presence of another skill on the bar are placed with those skills present.

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

12 Jul 2006 at 15:30 - 18

After Mirridon in Mtg the game became so imbalanced and ruled by 1-2 decks I stopped playing T2 tournaments.

I only do sealed deck and draft. T2 is much like GW where you can look on the net for the deck to use and how to run it. Sealed and draft is pure player skill.

I AM LOVING THIS ALREADY. Now just get draft going and we might have something.

Alex Weekes

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

Brighton, UK

12 Jul 2006 at 15:53 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

If this is the slightest teensiest little bit indicative of where ANet is intending to take GW, I'm out.

It's indicative that the design team are looking at ways to diversify how Guild Wars is played. Think of it like a layered pyramid. At the very tip you have the GWFC. Sealed Play should help fill in more pyramid layers and involve more players, as will any other variant gameplay types developed over time.

I say, keep an open mind. If it's not for you, you can safely ignore it and wait to see what else becomes available as the Guild Wars franchise is developed and diversified. No one is going to force you to participate, and obviously not every gameplay variant is going to appeal to any specific individual. It just might appeal to a large cross section of players, though, and that can only help the game in the long term.

SFEley

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

Ashford Road Irregulars

E/Mo

12 Jul 2006 at 15:58 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

GW should not become Magic The Fantasy Hockey Card Game 3D.

If this is the slightest teensiest little bit indicative of where ANet is intending to take GW, I'm out.

You do realize that, if brought into the game proper, it would be an entirely optional play mode, right? No one's going to mug your favorite character and take away his/her skills.

Quote:

GW's problem has always been that personal skill is insignificant compared to team build. A team of trained monkeys using the FOTM unbalanced build will always beat a team of top PvP'ers using random classes & skills - because it's all about build, while personal skill matters hardly at all.

But that would never happen. The "random selection" teams would be competing against other, not against ordinary GvG teams.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. It's not an "either/or" -- build choice vs. skill. Both matter. If your premise that personal skill was insignificant held water, it would mean that if teams on the ladder fought teams on the bottom of the ladder with the same builds, the results would be close to 50/50. I think that's a hard premise to support given the facts of the ladder.

dmndidjit

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

12 Jul 2006 at 15:58 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecomancer

I don't think it is totally randomised, as in there is a method to the randomisation so that certain skills that require combinations or the presence of another skill on the bar are placed with those skills present.

Who knows? All it says is "randomized skill cards." Yet again ANet has made a teaser press release that causes more consternation and confusion than anything else. The full tournament rules are still to come so there will probably be a greater clarification in there. I wouldn't bother getting into an argument about what the press release means, just post any questions you might have in the hopes that ANet will address them.

Duly Thankful

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

12 Jul 2006 at 16:04 - 22

Its just more PvP. Of no interest to me, and I suspect, of no interest to the majority of casual gamers who make up the bulk of those who bought GW.

Good luck to those of you who want to play it, and kudos to Anet for trying to broaden the PvP horizons.

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

12 Jul 2006 at 16:05 - 23

The problem with BM skills and charm animal is simple. They remove charm animal from the random. Make that the ONLY skill that you can pick. Because its a 1 of a kind skill I see no problem with doing that. No other attribute line is req to take 1 skill to use anything else in that same attribute.

Duly this has casual PvP writen all over it. There is no uber build, broken combos, or team tactics.

You get to choose your skills from a random generated list. Create your build then play. Anything random is not for serious players. Serious PvPers have GvG and HA. Everything else they make for PvP will be for casual players.

beanerman_99

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

In the clouds

[Sage]

E/

12 Jul 2006 at 16:07 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

It's indicative that the design team are looking at ways to diversify how Guild Wars is played. Think of it like a layered pyramid. At the very tip you have the GWFC. Sealed Play should help fill in more pyramid layers and involve more players, as will any other variant gameplay types developed over time.

I say, keep an open mind. If it's not for you, you can safely ignore it and wait to see what else becomes available as the Guild Wars franchise is developed and diversified. No one is going to force you to participate, and obviously not every gameplay variant is going to appeal to any specific individual. It just might appeal to a large cross section of players, though, and that can only help the game in the long term.

Amen brother. The more diverse GW gets the better. The more options players have the better. The more ways to PvP the better. Remember, if you don't like it, you DO NOT have to play it. I don't like HoH so I don't play it. I do like RA so I play it. I don't like alliance battles so I don't play them. I DO like Fort Aspenwood so I play there. The more choices that open up the better.

I would much rather play in an arena with a randomly generated skill bar than take what I want and have other players piss and moan about what I am using (in RA). I think it would be challenging, fun, entertaining, and a blast. I hope the do introduce a new arena with this type of gameplay and not just leave it to the Tournements.

arredondo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

12 Jul 2006 at 16:15 - 25

I like the sound of it myself... looking forward to trying it out.

Duly Thankful

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

12 Jul 2006 at 16:28 - 26

Quote:

twicky_kid

Duly this has casual PvP writen all over it. There is no uber build, broken combos, or team tactics.

Sorry Twicky - my few attempts at PvP were so hilariously unsuccessful that I gave it up long ago. Consequently I stick to PvE and should not make comments about PvP at all! I bow to your superior knowledge here.

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

12 Jul 2006 at 16:44 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duly Thankful

Sorry Twicky - my few attempts at PvP were so hilariously unsuccessful that I gave it up long ago. Consequently I stick to PvE and should not make comments about PvP at all! I bow to your superior knowledge here.

I can understand the turn off to PvP. Its been very elitist for over a year. I'd give it a chance and see if you like it. If you don't go back to PvE.

I'm really only a GvG player but I've found that AB is my fun time and fills in the time between my GvG. I also do RA because its much more difficult now with sins and rits and added skills (I monk).

I think this will be a good fun environement that's a little more complex than RA is.

Duly Thankful

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

12 Jul 2006 at 16:51 - 28

I didn't like the sound of Factions, so did not buy it. If C3 sounds more promising I might just give it a go. If I ever give PvP another try it will be because they have implemented something for casual fun which is what I look for in a game

0mar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

12 Jul 2006 at 18:51 - 29

Sealed-play? This has the possibility to spiral into something bad.

If everyone gets to choose from the same 64 skills, more than anything you'll find everyone using the same build. If it's randomized 64 skills, then the entire tournament means nothing. It'll be too dependant on the luck of the draw to mean anything.

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

12 Jul 2006 at 18:59 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0mar

Sealed-play? This has the possibility to spiral into something bad.

If everyone gets to choose from the same 64 skills, more than anything you'll find everyone using the same build. If it's randomized 64 skills, then the entire tournament means nothing. It'll be too dependant on the luck of the draw to mean anything.

It's not 64 Randomized skills. It's 64 random skills out of 800ish total skills.

So it's luck. And whoever gets a res wins.

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

12 Jul 2006 at 19:47 - 31

Just for clarification...M:TG didn't invent Sealed Deck format. It was just the second popular mainstream TCG to come out and the first to really popularize tournament play. Doesn't mean it invented it...

Bravesoul

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Street Pharmacists [WHOA]

12 Jul 2006 at 20:45 - 32

Hmm, as a casual PVP player this sounds intriguing if it was introduced into the game in the right way. I much prefer Aspenwood over regular PVP since it is more casual and has less of the elite aspect to it.

Sanji

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/

12 Jul 2006 at 21:11 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by guildwars.com/gencon2006/

Show your skills and compete for $5,000 in cash and prizes in a sealed-play, 4v4 player-versus-player match-up only available at Guild Wars live events!

Note the bold text and more importantly read the page before getting overexcited.

It is possible that this mode of play will only occur at live events, as the mechanics behind it involve being given physical skill cards which they must split amongst each other and set by their specific computer to create their character. That gives me the impression that this is only happening at Gencon.

Whether this style of play will be outside the Gencon event does not seem to be confirmed.

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

12 Jul 2006 at 22:47 - 34

The live events can be a testing ground before they try to release this on the real servers.

Mtg: Online is capable of sealed and draft tournements. This could be implemented with the same type of system. Simply lock the skills that were not on the randomized list. That way the only skills there are to choose from were the ones that generated by the system. You can choose an option at the roll screen for rpg, pvp, or sealed character. Once you pick the sealed it could generate the skills you can use and lock the other ones for that character. That way it doesn't interact with your other characters and the game can distinguish between a pvp character that can use all unlocked skill and a sealed character that limits what skills are locked.

There will be lots of coverage at the event from press and player attending. This is just simply free publicity for current GW players and prospect customers.

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

12 Jul 2006 at 23:18 - 35

Man, this sounds awesome! It's always nice to see GW following in the footsteps of Magic

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

13 Jul 2006 at 01:12 - 36

taking it that im reading this correctly..Anet are making some kind of childish card game?!

the type kids bring to primary/pre school?? why?

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

13 Jul 2006 at 01:35 - 37

....Are you sure Mt:G is childish?

...not that you've never played it?

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

13 Jul 2006 at 01:45 - 38

Anet is not making any card game (except for what Jeff Strain said long ago in an interview "we have something in the works but i'll not announce anything yet") but they are just representing skills with cards for players at the event to use to make their builds.

I'm a great fan of sealed deck in mtg and i'd really love to see this type of pvp implemented into the very game, without the need to use any cards, and for everyone have a chance to play it. This would be such a skill intensive format, with a little luck factor involved aswell.
And how about making the first preview event for GW:Nightfalls a weekend of mini sealed tournaments? That would be awesome! A great way to have a glimpse at new skills and a chance to play them without the need of unlocking them yet. It would be sooo much better than the first PvP for everyone GW:Factions Preview Event. (the sealed-play would be an additional feature for a pvp preview event, with the ability to unlock new skills for gained faction; and after that a big pve+pvp Nightfalls event would follow for sure)
... i like dreaming

Fyre Brand

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Shadowlight Order [SoR]

13 Jul 2006 at 01:46 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

It's indicative that the design team are looking at ways to diversify how Guild Wars is played. Think of it like a layered pyramid. At the very tip you have the GWFC. Sealed Play should help fill in more pyramid layers and involve more players, as will any other variant gameplay types developed over time.

I say, keep an open mind. If it's not for you, you can safely ignore it and wait to see what else becomes available as the Guild Wars franchise is developed and diversified. No one is going to force you to participate, and obviously not every gameplay variant is going to appeal to any specific individual. It just might appeal to a large cross section of players, though, and that can only help the game in the long term.

Ugh! You've got to be kidding me right? Keep an open mind? If I wanted to play Magic the Gathering then I would just play it. Innovation is one thing copying another play style is bogus.

I've played games for a long time and have sat in on the MTG people doing there card thing. I understand the sealed skill deal, but what does MTG have to do with Guild Wars.

I like PvE and PvP, but not card games mixed in. I agree with Numa on this. Bad direction to head.

hellboy909

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

13 Jul 2006 at 08:39 - 40

I think this is a great idea. As has been previously said, nobody's holding a gun to your head making you play this way. More options are always good, imo.

I do have a couple questions, though:

1) Should both teams share the same set of selected skills for balance?

2) Would you get the skills *before* you made a character, or after? Seems like you'd have to get skills before picking a profession, armor, weapons, etc.