I love Guild Wars but I'm really starting to hate everything about Multi-player

This feels like an itchy old sweater.

Yes old topic



but this is a general case realy i think that atleast 90% of the guildwars comunity has had the problem of PuGs from hell.
But don't worry you will eventualy find that good PuG or a guild team that just needs one more member(can rsult in acceptence in that guild).

Don't worry be happy

To the OP, as mentioned by many others on the forums joining a good guild is the key towards enjoying Guild Wars and a guild that needs you to wear 15k armour and carry 100k weapons isnt neccessary a good one after all-I understand that the OP maynot mean it illterally but if he did, i feel extremely sorry for the state of affairs that has transpired to have lead this misconception.

*ahem*

I just failed the first mission on the Shing Jea Island. We died at the pets :/

Smite monks ftw!

This advice is worthless, there are not very many good guilds out there which are why we have PUGS, it takes time and luck to find a good pve guild. You just cant jump up and find one instantaously. I only do missions with guild mates but it took a long time to get in a situation where I can log on gather guildies and get masters on any mission. Some people just arnt there yet and may never be, finding a good guild is not an easy thing to do. I remember when I started the game and PUG'd though it in Tyria it was hell, but at least then people knew the bonuses and they where obtainable. PUG reliant players these days have it even worst because chances of getting masters in a PUG are super low.

Bad PUGs
#9 they spam invites to everyone (except mesmers and assassins) they can find (not the best way to organize a group together)
#10 they're fighting before the mission has even started (get out while you still can)
#11 the monk is demanding a fee, even though there are plenty of other monks around

Good PUGs
#7 a few of them are in a guild together (doesn't mean they are a good group, just shows that there could be some good coordination there)
#8 I've found that the friendlier and nicer the people are, the smoother the mission goes along because everyone is cooperating

For the most part PUG filtering works pretty well, so don't go into any random group and hope for the best. There are good PUGs out there, you just have to be patient

I did all but two missions with henchies, PUG suck most of the time since there's no communication or anything.

And PuGs are twice as aggrevating when you find PvE the only fun in the game but all but two or three friends and guildies and up and left due to nothing to do in game...

I'm with the OP though, I'm real close to unistalling the game as I have little or no desire to load it up anymore.

Henchies can not pull of all the bonuses in the missions as they are just too dumb and can't be told not too attack, stay put or even behave. And considering majority of PuGs act worse than the henchies these days, it's a lose lose.

Dude, Get into a guild with a good alliance that uses Vent or Teamspeak.

I do sympathise, I often pickup pve players into my guild who struggle with missions, but the frustration is not needed. Once you can talk someone through the basics its like a light bulb lights up in their mind and suddenly everything is so much easier.

I do hope you sort it out, there is alot GW can offer, the hunt for a good guild is often what Guildwars is about.

sometimes you get on group with experienced players who has done the mission 10 times before and sometimes you don't, that's just how it is, i haven't felt it that troublesome and i really hate to give up, i'm pretty sure you are able to do every or almost every quests/mission with hench

what i find is frustrating is that most fow/uw groups leaves before we get too long, usually we do the forgemaster quests and around that time someone gotta leave, i've never been in fow for more than 2 and a half hours, i can't blame them, but it's just hard to get groups that wanna clear the whole place out or do other things than the forgemaster.

Ok, I'd like to change tack a little bit and put in some reinforcing commentary about PUGs.

The most important thing is that you have to know what kind of a group you want and build it. Forming your own group is recommended, because that gives you the control to invite and kick people as needed. If you are not the group leader, then you need to be a bit more leery about the group formation as they could easily build a group that is destined for failure, or one that has members you wouldn't want to group with. Feel free, as long as the mission has not started yet, to leave at any point during the group formation phase.

Some obvious signs of people you shouldn't group with:
1) group member says "no henchies."
2) group member says "gogogogo"
3) group member acts like an irritating little kid "lolzorz"
4) group member is blatantly offensive
5) group member has an idiotic name (xXx Pwnt J00 xXx, | Masta Baita |, I Love Weed, etc)
6) group member obviously has no clue
7) group member won't discuss his build, and won't cooperate with the team
8) group member doesn't talk (this is a warning sign that they're an afk'er and are either leeching or just won't be participating enough to warrant bringing them along)
9) other miscellaneous signs of incompetence, such as not knowing what the mission is about, or asking "bonus?", repeatedly, long after the group has decided to do the bonus
10) group member is in an advanced area and is still in pre-searing/shing jea armor because they're "saving for max armor". This person will be a liability.

Really, getting a good PUG is about filtering. There are plenty of people around, and most of them are decent; it's just about filtering out the Leeroys, the afk'ers, the jackasses, the incompetent idiots, and the obnoxious kids. The people you wind up with are usually the agreeable, patient, knowledgeable non-newbie players. You can then proceed to demolish the mission, and maybe even the next 5 missions, for the Master's certification.

While you're inviting people and establishing rapport/synergy by talking to people (this also helps avoid them getting bored and leaving before you're finished putting together a group), keep an eye out towards what overall party composition you want to create. Avoid obvious pitfalls, such as 2 MM's (unless you know the mission drops a *lot* of corpses).

Keep an eye open to fill holes in the party with henchies in case you're not able to find enough of whatever class you need. An example of this is missions where there's 1 monk in the zone, 3 different groups hollering "GLF Monk", and the 1 who's there seems to be afk. You're going to want to take the 2 monk henchies for that one. There's no point in waiting around 30 minutes to find a monk, when you could've taken henchies and been *done* by then. I've done missions, and went back, and seen the same parties *still* advertising for players.

[Note that the henchie monks usually perform best when both henchie monks are present; individually, they don't seem to perform as well as they do when they are together. The total is greater than the sum of the parts, for them, at least.]

One point I'd like to elaborate on is that you need to talk to people while you're forming the party. This prevents them from getting bored and leaving; it helps you detect if they're afk'ers/leechers or immature kids, or idiots who don't know their build, or whatever; it helps you filter out the undesirables and establish rapport as a team with the good people that remain.

Sometimes you'll get good players with good builds in your party. Buddy up with them. Make friends. If you get a core group of good players in your PUG, you may be able to hold party cohesiveness together instead of the standard "get thru mission, then disband". Build a *team*. Do that, and you will probably find that most people will recognize that you've built a good team that will take them (and you) far, and will stick around. You may have to replace 1-2 people, but you'll get a lot farther this way than you will with random PUGs at every stop. At the very least, maybe you can add them to your Friends list and play with them again later.

Sometimes, you have a good group, but one stupid player. After you beat the mission, feel free to kick them. They weren't adding to the group. Replace them with someone else. What's the worst that can happen? The worst that could happen is that the replacement is just as bad. The best that can happen is that you'll have gotten an actual good player in that slot, and the team is even better than before.

So, to summarize:
1) Try to be the leader. Most people instinctively follow a good leader. (The caveat to this is: don't try to be the leader if you're a BAD leader. It's not about authority, it's about getting something done. If you already have a good leader, then be a good follower instead.)
2) Filter out the idiots. TALK TO PEOPLE. If they won't talk, you probably don't want them.
3) Focus on obtaining good players, or at least cooperative ones. Cooperative bad players can be retrained/re-educated into good players.
4) At the next possible point (usually after finishing a mission), drop the bad players, and replenish the party's supply with new members. If you can attract enough people to replace henchies, fine; if not, henchies FTW.
5) Stay calm, don't let people ruffle your feathers too much. You're in control, and you're going to build something successful for everybody. (Or, if you're not in control, have faith in your party leader to do so.)

PUGs aren't all bad. They're only as good or bad as you make them (within a certain range, of course).

Hope this helps.

eudas

Ditto. These days, I either hench or go with guildies. Occasionally we invite one or two others to go with us, and/or we fill out the group with henchies. I'm in a smallish, friendly PvE guild that's very helpful.

I've been in good and bad PUGs. All it takes is one jerk to spoil it for everyone else.

Nah, you can do all the missions with henchie monks. Last night, we did abaddons and hells with Lina and Mhenlo, and for hells, we only had a party of 6. Two folks dropped almost as soon as we started, but we decided to continue anyway. So it was 2 warriors, an ele, a mesmer, and our trusty monk henchies. No problems whatsoever. Our guild leader prefers using henchie monks over real monks, one of the reasons I like him. No hanging around waiting for monks to join, and it's never hampered us in the least.

I have had people from each of those 10 points in my groups, and to tell you the truth they were more willing to stick through the tough parts then anyone else :P We actually ended off beating the missions ^_^

Now, guilds are good, but guild members arent always free to help you with all missions, they too have to play. If we are forced to the point of using Henchmen to beat the majority of missions/quests.... whats the purpose of PvE guild wars being online?

100% agree with eudas. That's a very insightful post.

I still think that there's more good PUGs out there than bad ones. - Going through the Factions campaign, I PUGed all the way and only got into 3 bad groups, got masters on first try 8 times, and never had to do a mission more than 4 times (only 1) to get masters on all of them. And that with PUGS.

well, any anecdotal point put out there is inevitably going to be countered by someone else's anecdotal counterpoint. that list wasn't about absolute rules, but more about statistical probabilities/trends.

eudas

Guilds that recruit for good armor... pfft thats cheap :/ No wounder I have fissure and guildless now lol

I shouldnt have to install vent or teamspeak to get into a good group or a good guild. I am here for guild wars, I am not here for other software. Lets just play.

how about actually making friends with people in your guild and do missions with them?

I don't have vent or teamspeak. I'm in two guilds (one per account) and I've never had problems getting into a PUG. You just have to be patient and find the right fit. Most guilds want more members. Group with people and eventually you'll find yourself invited into a decent guild. The guilds I belong to only invite people they've grouped with and like, and it's not based on items, armor, or anything like that. Just that the person seems sane and is a decent player.

LEEROOOOOYYY JENKIIIIIINS!!!!!!!

*cough* sorry couldnt help myself.

If you want the honest truth from me: Guild Wars does not have an Easy Mode. Not every task can be done perfectly. Missions will not be completed every time. Where would the challenge be in that? People will make mistakes and (hopefullly) learn from them. To make a mistake, and to not learn from it, is to make another mistake.

Try doing a mission once, if fails, try again with a different group. If that continues to fail, try leading a group. Once you get frustrated, ask a guildie. As a guild officer myself I can easily ferry a guildie through a mission with my MM and rarely have a problem with doing so if Im not busy.

To the matter of leavers:
Submit my sudgestion to AE if you wish. Realise that the vast majority of so called "leavers" are the result of a disconnection. In any other MMO, you could usually log right back in, find the group was waiting for you. Join back up and continue. THE DESIGN OF GW NEEDS TO BE CHANGED TO FIT THIS. In my oppinion on login you should be prompted to start in the outpost or the previous zone instance you were in(with your group). This would save lots of players, lots of hassle.

Conclusion: GW has hard missions for a challenge. Everyone is not perfect. Missions will fail. If they do fail, dont whine just because you cant have your way and you dont live in a perfect world.

Cheer up! Don't let a few jerks in the game ruin your fun.

Maybe I've been lucky, but I pugged my way to both Protector titles without too much trouble. Some of it is just the luck of the draw. I've gotten master's on missions that other players cry about, but I've had trouble getting master's on other missions that many players have had no trouble with. There are plenty of good players who use pugs, it's just a matter of finding them.

With regards to getting the bonus or master's on missions, you may want to wait on those until you've capped some nice elites. Then come back. Although, I've gotten master's on several missions the first time through with pugs.

Things I look for or try to establish in a pug:
1. What build is everyone running? Needn't be cookie cutter, but they should be able to tell me what the build does. They needn't list all skills either. But this is a good time to make sure the Ele isn't bringing Firestorm. Personally, I've found when people are asked to list all their skills, the group is much more organized and patient. People run some awful builds at times, and catching it early on is crucial since you can't do anything once you're in the mission.
2. Patience and the ability to pull. I usually say that if they can't get along with others and be patient they should leave before we start the mission/quest.
3. A leader. Usually there will be one knowledgable person in the pug who is vocal. Otherwise, I like to ask who has done this before and is willing to lead. Designate a caller and another to draw or ping on the map.
4. Problem solving. I like to track others skills a little (easier if I'm the healer, but I still try when playing other profs). If the monk is using Healing Breeze too much (and running low on energy), for example, I'll tell them to limit it's use. If a caster isn't kiting when taking melee dmg, I will usually ask them to move. I know this sounds real simple, but you get players who don't know the basics and they won't hurt your team if you help them out early on. Telling the group to take out the Spirit of Restoration before they kill anything else is another example.
5. Humor and a sense of fun. People play the game for fun and telling jokes and having fun will help people tolerate deaths and mistakes better.
6. Don't have high expectations. Expect some tough spots and certainly do not expect certain success.
7. Weed out the annoying types early on. They will likely quit early or annoy others into quitting. Spamming WTS in teamchat or not telling you their build or being highly opinionated are all bad signs.
8. Advise others to suit their builds to the mission. For example, when fighting the afflicted, I will ask the tanks to bring Watch Yourself and maybe Dolyak's signet, so they don't take too much dmg from the afflicted explosions.

And if the group fails, you will usually learn things about why you failed, so you can organize the group better for the next time. Adhering to some of these points has been instrumental in finding/organizing good pugs. I've had the good fortune of passing THK on my first try on 3 chars with pugs.

I've seen players from pretty good PvE guilds pugging stuff, so even joining a guild doesn't mean you'll have guildies available everytime you need to get a mission done. Of course, I'll try to join them or other guild groups cuz I know they're unlikely to quit and they're probably well organized.

Also, even if I'm doing a mission for the first time I'll try to join a bonus/master's group because they're usually more organized and knowledgable about the mission.

This is true, and it's why I have several characters on the go. I hench whenever possible. I join guildies when we want the same mission, when I know taking henchies won't cut it (like some bonuses), or when someone wants help. If I want to do a mission with real people and no guildies are available, I just switch to another character for a while. There's always something I can do with one of my characters.

Recently I took about a month's break from GW. I'd become bored, or perhaps burned out, with the game, and I found PUGs more obnoxious than usual. With the release of Factions, there seemed to be more rude behaviour, more rushing, and more ragequitters. Like the OP, I didn't feel like grouping anymore. Playing in PUGs was ruining the game for me, but never grouping seemed to defeat the purpose of playing online. So I stopped playing. When I fired up GW again, I decided to avoid PUGging at all costs. I've become a much more active player in my guilds. As a result, I've actually grouped more (with guildies and guests) than I did before. I'm enjoying the game a lot more that way.

The average standard of gameplay of PvE PUGs is somewhere between appalling and abysmal.

Dont cry about it, just deal with it.