How do you deal with someone dying while on your watch? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

14 Jul 2006 at 04:50 - 1

Hi all, I have recently started a monk. She's level 11 now in the desert. I created a monk so that I can get in groups easier. I guess my question for you experienced monks here is how do you guys deal with someone dying while on your watch? Fortunately, no one has yet died while on my watch, well, except myself

Does it come with the territory? I mean, I'm pretty sure eventually I won't be in time to save someone from certain death one of those times. I think I would feel pretty guilty about it, especially if that person didn't do anything to deserve it.

Anyway, any suggestions will be appreciated

daky

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

R/

14 Jul 2006 at 05:37 - 2

wait till you team with some one like me who charges death in the face (usually eyes closed and face first screaming like a girl into mobs) its a game not like the guys dieing on the other end of the comp.

VorianVader

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Blitzers

W/N

14 Jul 2006 at 08:10 - 3

Well in tough missions with massive groups and rapidly depleting energy, at times there are bound to be some deaths. Its just the feeling you get that you weren't able to save someone. That does come with the territory but sooner or later you get used to it especially if the person died while you were trying to save someone else.

However, you come across two types of PuGs when that happens:

1) The ones who accept the death as their own fault i.e. for running off too far ahead or aggoring too many enemies or just death because the monk was trying to save someone else etc
OR
2) Those who blame it on the monk e.g. warrior in the UW who wont stop attacking the aataxes and dies in seconds on ripotse or the idiot who charges musraat without being infused etc.

(SK)Pariah

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Skull Knockers

W/Me

14 Jul 2006 at 08:12 - 4

It definately goes with the territory...especially with people like Daky is talking about.. Usually you just have to take it in stride and resist the urge to immediately try a ressurect.. Immediately assess the situation and see what went wrong.. check your energy and make sure no one else is in danger. If everything looks in order, then go ahead for the res.

Another thing...if you see someone continuously in danger of dying, instead of wasting your energy, sometimes it's best to just let them go ahead and bite it.. running completely out of energy just to save one person isn't usually worth the effort...although in that case, you'll almost always get flak for it from the fresh corpse.. generally because they're impatient and a bit on the noobish side..

All in all, it's not a huge loss in the grand scheme of things...and as long as you're doing the best you can do, you'll more than likely be complimented for it. Stuff happens sometimes...and most mature players understand and respect that.

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

14 Jul 2006 at 08:38 - 5

wait til lyou get into the group that has the frenzy wammo with mending who thinks hes invincible and runs off when your energy is at 0. youll have a bit of an understanding of how you heal someonee on your watch. lol

as long as you have a decent energy management setup for your monk, its not too hard to heal someone in pve. if done right you can solo heal monk thunderhead (i did it as a boon prot) but thats only if you have the right group. you just have to deal with the fact that occasionally someone IS goign to die and you cannot always stop it.

and please dont stop healing others to res another player. worst idea possible. when monking i warn everyone i never bring a res. my job is to keep you alive, not stop doing that for a 6 second cast. when i do bring a res, i will not res anyone until the fight is over and if its down to just me as a monk, no offense but i can be the best monk in the world, but were still going to die if surrounded by mobs.

Jedimagician

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

14 Jul 2006 at 08:39 - 6

OR you could blame the other monk

Dacamo

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

GCM

Mo/N

14 Jul 2006 at 10:46 - 7

I agree with pretty much all of the advice you've been given here...even Jedimagician.

But be warned, there will always be a player who can't deal with defeat and must place the blame on someone other than himself. The Monk is the #1 target. I usually will rez the player after the fight is over and move on with the mission, in which he will inevitably die again, hurling every insult and profane word in the English (and sometimes unknown) language. To this I usually reply "I apologize for not concentrating on you alone and wasting my time and energy on the other 7 players in the group." Then I proceed to let the individual heal himself for the remainder of the mission.

Always remember, It's just a game. You'll have good runs and bad runs, good groups and bad groups. Enjoy it either way.

Sab

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

14 Jul 2006 at 13:49 - 8

If the death is my fault, then I say it's my fault. If it's their fault, then I offer no apologies.

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

14 Jul 2006 at 14:02 - 9

Agreed. Like others have said, some people will blame you or someone else for their death. The few will blame themselves, or not blame anyone, and take it as "that's just life". Some will say "LAG!!!"

If you take other people dying as your fault, then you should never be in a group with an Assassin.

The only time you can truly be blamed and rightfully so, is if you just watch their life drop, drop, drop, drop, drop, drop, dead.

As a monk or a healer (Rit or /mo), I have had the responsiblity (sometimes shared, other times solo) to keep the party alive (including NPCs). While as a healer or protector, your job is to keep the party alive, you may not be able to do it all the time. Death happens, its a part of the game.

I have lost many lives over time as a healer, 80% of my own deaths was my fault. 30% of the deaths that occured to the party was my fault (I consider lag as my fault). I do let people die (only because they run off from the group and fight 2 or 3 monsters solo. So no healing from me).

As long as people know its just a game, death shouldn't be a be all and end all of a character.

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

14 Jul 2006 at 14:08 - 10

Cool cool, thanks for all the good advice guys!

Goldleader

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mo/Me

14 Jul 2006 at 17:57 - 11

If anyone acts like a moron towards you because they died, threaten to leave the group. He'll get the message then, when the rest of the group begins to scream at him for trying to make the monk leave.

The nice thing about playing a monk is that they are a rare class. Finding a monk to group with can take a LONG, LONG time.

In most cases, a monk will find a group much quicker than a group will find monk.

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

14 Jul 2006 at 18:15 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldleader

In most cases, a monk will find a group much quicker than a group will find monk. That's what I thought too, and part of the reason why I created a monk. But in lower-level areas, I had to spam LFG for quite a while just to get into a group, guess monks aren't in high demand in those areas. However, I was able to get into an Elona group as a lvl 11 monk, and we beat the mission on our first try!

Silent Kitty

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Netherlands

[TYW] "The Young World"

A/Me

14 Jul 2006 at 18:36 - 13

You're a lvl 11 monk in the desert? How do you keep people alive? Are you talking pugs or guildies?

pegasux

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

New Mexico < PUKE >

Elite Rogues Inc. [ER]

14 Jul 2006 at 18:47 - 14

If a pug dies in a fight i let them rot for a bit till the fight is done...i never ever rez in a fight. Also if there is a player who keeps over aggroing and taking most of my time i will give them a warning and if they do it again i don't heal them...at all. sadly though it seems that half the time that other player is the other monk!

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

14 Jul 2006 at 18:50 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

You're a lvl 11 monk in the desert? How do you keep people alive? Are you talking pugs or guildies? It was actually a PUG, there was another lvl 13 monk in the group

The rest were lvl 20's...

Cowboy Nastyman

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Me/Mo

14 Jul 2006 at 18:53 - 16

deaths are bound to happen eventually it all depends on the additude of the player that died as to how i take it. if they say nothing about it they get ressed we move on and forget about it, however if someone decides to say something like "do you even heal monk?" while the entire team is takign large dmg and im being shutdown i usually respond with a string of swear and a quick leave from the game, and of course engaging dnd, or flame proof armor as i call it

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

14 Jul 2006 at 20:03 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldleader

In most cases, a monk will find a group much quicker than a group will find monk. Most cases, yes.

Yesterday evening, I was at Sunjiang District ( Europe Dis ) and there was my Rt ( restoration ) and a couple of monks. No other classes available.
Took me 15 minutes to find an other class.
And I had just gotten my Mo through the mission.

To the OP:
When you have put all your effort into keeping the group alive you have done all possible.
Your job is to keep a team alive, not one individual.
Except when keeping the individual alive is key to victory ( NPC ) .
This could also be true for the MM, they most likely die when the team is already under attack and masterless minions can kill your team.
When you have one 'tank' that constantly aggro's all red dots on the screen, let them die (and tell the group to stay away).
Unless you have agreed that this is the job he's assigned to ( for example, to pack monsters together for SS or multiple barragers )

When I play non-monk I try to bring at least one selfhealing skill.
I sometimes tell other players to do the same when I play monk.
8 other skills ( at least one res ) are useless when dead.
You cannot rely on the monk all the time.
He/she can get disconnect, or leave because he/she was annoyed by one player. Have seen the latter on Boreas Seabed yesterday.

The message I give to people depends on the time i'm online.
I tend to play late in the evening to avoid the really young players.
When playing earlier, i just make sure all understand that i cannot heal them when I am not in their little circle. Hardly mention self heal, most kids (and some adults) find other skills more important.
When playing later, I mention self heal and leave it to the players to take it with them.
But, never blame the monk when you die, you descided an other skill is more important than the self heal.

Drewfense

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

Team Quitter [QQ]

Mo/Me

14 Jul 2006 at 20:14 - 18

PUGs in general are very ignorant to damage prevention so deaths are unavoidable. Just find the frenzy mending warrior or "I will aggro, get dazed, and stand there for 10s casting meteor storm" ele and let them die. It is their fault and saving your energy is better for the group as a whole. Other monk advice to never double monk with a PUG...either bring someone you trust or Lina...I find the hench monks to be better than a PUG 80% of the time.

heroajax1

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

By Any Other Name [Rose]

W/

14 Jul 2006 at 20:59 - 19

Dying on my watch was a tough thing for me to deal with as well. I kinda take it personally, as in the sense that I failed. Over time, I learned to prioritize my healing. Sometimes you have to let someone die in order to keep the team alive. Your responsibility is to heal yourself first, other monks then casters through tanks. I would recommend that you go back and do some more quests. Lvl 11 is way to young to be in the desert, but that's imo.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

17 Jul 2006 at 01:34 - 20

Depends on whether or not the person is an idiot. If they aren't and it was my fault, I apologize.

Ex:
I remember trying to spike heal a person with a dragon mask in an area with lvl 20+ mobs. He/she kept dying and I kept yelling for him/her to take his damn mask off. After a while I just stopped healing him/her because it was a waste of energy.

There was a warrior spamming frenzy + heal signet while taking damage from about 10 mobs. He then proceeded to aggro more. He/she died. I didn't care when he/she started flaming.

When the other monk was a smiter with orison of healing and nothing else and the party thought I wasn't healing them.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

17 Jul 2006 at 02:14 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

It was actually a PUG, there was another lvl 13 monk in the group

The rest were lvl 20's... They let you in a group oh then agian you are monk they will take what they can get.The way I deal with as it happens and if I am the only one alive I wait untill the mobs clears and then res.I would suggest you level up closer to 20 as you will have more attributes for healing or protect.

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

17 Jul 2006 at 03:11 - 22

Yea, I pretty much got myself run to the desert, didn't want to do all the missions all over again

I'll probably have someone power-level me once I get to Droks

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

17 Jul 2006 at 22:42 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Yea, I pretty much got myself run to the desert, didn't want to do all the missions all over again

I'll probably have someone power-level me once I get to Droks

Yes but it is better that way if this is your first Monk and I redid my first Monk as I want to make some change to the way she looked.I played most of the game agian and did better then I did it the first time.

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

18 Jul 2006 at 00:09 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Yes but it is better that way if this is your first Monk and I redid my first Monk as I want to make some change to the way she looked.I played most of the game agian and did better then I did it the first time. LoL, I already rerolled her several times, cos I didn't like the way she looked. But they were all in pre, though

ryanryanryan0310

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Scars Meadows [SMS]

18 Jul 2006 at 00:20 - 25

It's not your level that matter's it's the way you use the monk. I've seen lvl 20 monks (earlier today) just stand there and watch people die. I'm like "hey monk how about some healing here", she goes off picking up drops.. You know when your monking is good when people tell you after missions.

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

18 Jul 2006 at 00:59 - 26

Hi guys, I just did the D'Alesio Seaboard mission with a PUG. Took us two tries, but we did it! Someone did die, though, but it was b/c someone ran off on his/her own both times, and I had to keep the larger group alive. All in all, I liked it. The people were nice too

ryanryanryan0310

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Scars Meadows [SMS]

18 Jul 2006 at 01:45 - 27

On your way to becoming one of the top monks in the game.. Go Milias go.... Probaly into a 55 too?

pixel.summoner

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Near Seattle, Wa.

Order of the Shining Lion

N/

18 Jul 2006 at 02:14 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by (SK)Pariah

It definately goes with the territory...especially with people like Daky is talking about.. Usually you just have to take it in stride and resist the urge to immediately try a ressurect.. Immediately assess the situation and see what went wrong.. check your energy and make sure no one else is in danger. If everything looks in order, then go ahead for the res.

Another thing...if you see someone continuously in danger of dying, instead of wasting your energy, sometimes it's best to just let them go ahead and bite it.. running completely out of energy just to save one person isn't usually worth the effort...although in that case, you'll almost always get flak for it from the fresh corpse.. generally because they're impatient and a bit on the noobish side..

All in all, it's not a huge loss in the grand scheme of things...and as long as you're doing the best you can do, you'll more than likely be complimented for it. Stuff happens sometimes...and most mature players understand and respect that. This is some of the most sage advice. I would be happy to fight alongside people who maintain this kind of civility.

dansamy

Chasing Dragons

Join Date: May 2005

Lost in La-La Land

LFGuild

Mo/Me

18 Jul 2006 at 02:32 - 29

Unyielding Aura. You can substitute Vengence if you prefer.

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

18 Jul 2006 at 03:36 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanryanryan0310

On your way to becoming one of the top monks in the game.. Go Milias go.... Probaly into a 55 too? Heh, thank you

Although 55 isn't my thing

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

18 Jul 2006 at 19:44 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

LoL, I already rerolled her several times, cos I didn't like the way she looked. But they were all in pre, though

You said pre what about post?That is where it counts.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

18 Jul 2006 at 20:16 - 32

In PvE? Most players are wholly incompetent and act like they are trying to die. Don't fight it, you'll just trash your energy and wipe. Let 'em die, and worry about keeping the players with a clue alive. If they yell at you, cry havoc.

Peace,
-CxE

Phenixfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Malice Dedication Ambition [MAD]

Mo/

18 Jul 2006 at 20:29 - 33

well, thats what i do as a monk:

1. if somone dies on 'your' watch, well, it happens. if it is a good player who died he wont complain and wait patiently until he gets rezzed, maybe say sry, but thats not needed, a nice move nevertheless

ig he starts shouting at you, well, dont apologize ofc, dont worry, cause that most often indicates he's a 'noob' and would have died sooner or later anyway, no matter what you'd have done. just dont ragequit, the rest of the group rlly isnt too be punished for this one being a jerk ^^ :P

2. try to keep people at rlly high hp always. its all about morale, after all, ppl on low health tend to run around in order not to die and by that run in danger to pull other mobs

3. if you need regen stops, tell them, if one still rushes, let him die ^^ thats how they are supposed to learn to listen :P

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

18 Jul 2006 at 20:39 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phenixfire

2. try to keep people at rlly high hp always. its all about morale, after all, ppl on low health tend to run around in order not to die and by that run in danger to pull other mobs

Hmm, I've heard that monks shouldn't heal until the person's health drops to a certain level, in order to conserve energy. For instance, Word of Healing is more efficient if the person's health is less than 50%. Not sure which one is right.

Phenixfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Malice Dedication Ambition [MAD]

Mo/

18 Jul 2006 at 22:16 - 35

i dont doubt there are different 'attitudes' of healing

imho the 'keep them' high is the better one because

1. if you let them drow until it is worth healing, well, maybe you mess smth up, or the to-be-healed does, maybe suddenly all the mobs focus on him -> dead, only because you waited ^^
died even though you could have saved him, well, thats not that good i guess :P

2. morals of the person, as mentioned above

3. morals of the group.
well, assuming you are a 'i'm teh uber 1337 h4xx'-player, liking to quit very fast and so on.
where would you quit sooner, in a group whose health is always near full, or in a group that is sorta always on the egde of extinction ?
no matter if some players should leave then or not cause they are supposed to be leavers/jerks/whatevers anyway .. as long as they dont pull additional mobs, they are just additional firepower, which is always good to have around.

5. woh is only 5 energy, smth you'd easily regen again. heal other would be another matter, save that for more dangerous situations, but still, try to keep ppl up with low recharge/low cost spells ( you heal through divine favor too, after all ) like dwaynas kiss, woh and so on.

in the end, there is no 'perfect' healing or monking method. every monk has his own, but thats the one i use and find best, cause it is not so fixed on the condition of a red health bar, but is also taking the mentality of the player behind the war/mes/whatever into account

Carth`

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

18 Jul 2006 at 22:23 - 36

In general I don't think many people die as a result of my fault. If it's something like overaggro, and everyone is drawing a big arrow on the minimap and yelling "run", people are usually happy that the monk has survived to res everyone.

There are a couple times when I realised I'd failed someone, and when that happened, I told them what I did wrong and apologised for it. The person replied with a "np".

If it is your fault, just try to explain why it happened and that you are sorry. If it isn't your fault, you should have no qualms about it. Defend yourself if necessary.

Ultimate Sacrifice

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

18 Jul 2006 at 23:34 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phenixfire

2. try to keep people at rlly high hp always. its all about morale, after all, ppl on low health tend to run around in order not to die and by that run in danger to pull other mobs

What happend to me was I let this Warrior's health dip below ~70% and he paniced, which he started to walk back and brang the aggro to our casters..

Fungus Amongus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare] | [Rare] Alliance

19 Jul 2006 at 01:22 - 38

I feel bad if I make a bad call and an ally's death is a result. I ignore those who blame me for their bonzai antics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Hmm, I've heard that monks shouldn't heal until the person's health drops to a certain level, in order to conserve energy. For instance, Word of Healing is more efficient if the person's health is less than 50%. Not sure which one is right. Yes and no.

Yes Word of Healing is more efficient if your ally's health is below 50%, but there's a catch - only if your ally's health is still below 50% after the effect of Divine Favor and Divine Boon (the latter only if you are using Boon). Those bonuses are applied before the actual heal from WoH.

It's not necessarily bad to cast a spell on an ally before they actually need a heal. An example of healing someone with max or near max health is this: Sometimes you might, say, enchant an ally if you know you won't need to cast another spell before you will regain the energy. Reversal of Fortune shortly before an expected hit is a good example.

I have taken alot of heat for letting people get low on health. They'll scream," Heal me! Heal me!" when they get anywhere near half health. Just remember there's no use casting a 100hp heal on an ally who's only 25hp shy of full health. Overhealing is a waste of energy in most cases.

Just remember - the most crucial hit point is the last one. Until it's gone your ally is still alive. Protect that last hit point.

baz777

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

South East England

Leader: Lady Hairy Armpits S[mell]

E/

19 Jul 2006 at 18:32 - 39

Team members will inevitably die through no fault of yours.

You will eventually be able to make the right choices of who to concentrate on.

What I mean by this is:

Those characters who try to tank that really should be on the back line with you are not worth 80% of your healing and energy to the detriment of the whole team.

The Warrior that aggros 2 or 3 groups at a time.

Those that run off on their own. Let them die 2 or 3 times usually solves this problem.

Let the rest of the team know when you need to regen.

Consider the cost of your healing and incorporate some energy management skills.

Pay special attention to your position during battle.

If you come under attack don’t be afraid to run and direct the aggro onto the warrior, that’s why he/she is there.

I’ve been extremely lucky with my 2 monks and have not received any adverse comments from other players, but I’m sure the time will come

Bankotsu_Lightbane

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Goodyear, AZ

No Flames On Our Cape [EwW]

Mo/

20 Jul 2006 at 18:10 - 40

I would just say this. Get to the point where you know the mobs and areas you are playing in well enough to where you can give your group advice on how things will go much smoother.

i.e. "If you are getting spiked and you are not a Warrior, move and make the enemies attack someone else.

"If you are fighting White Mantle, get the Sycophants so you can get heals from me."

Always let your group know what you can and can't do...they will respect that 99% of the time and won't blame you for any deaths. Plus, the more you play the better your understanding of priorities will be, and that will mean less deaths, HOORAY!