Turn some elem spells (armor of mist, etc) into stances
The Great Al
Why do all self elem spells have to be enchantments? Armor of mist, which is a running spell, and (argh, forgot the name of the air one) can both be made into stances. Why can warriors run without having to worry about the running skills being removed? Why can mesmers have loads of stances that can't be removed? Mist form also seems like it would be worthy of a stance. Also, this is probably asking for too much, but maybe the earth elementalist line would actually be used the way it was supposed to be if armor of earth and kinetic armor were stances. The way it currently is, it is near impossible to be an effective earth elementalist if there is one mesmer floating around. I hate having to stand in the back and spam 'stoning' until the mesmers are dead. Either those spells should be unstrippable, or stances should be able to be removed.
Ira Blinks
attunements, swirling/magnetic aura, etc.
TadaceAce
Making things like the attunements skills would be a great buff for pve eles. Burning speed a skill ftw! Kinetic armor and armor of earth as skills would be overpowered, I'm not gonna lie there 
/signed
Windborne has to stay enchantment cause its target ally.
MAKE ATTUNEMENTS SKILLS!
Imagine earth ele tanks using unstrippable armor of earth and kinetic armor, that would be sick.
Oh and by skills I mean insta skills like crit eye (new mechanic in factions?)
/signed
Windborne has to stay enchantment cause its target ally.
MAKE ATTUNEMENTS SKILLS!
Imagine earth ele tanks using unstrippable armor of earth and kinetic armor, that would be sick.
Oh and by skills I mean insta skills like crit eye (new mechanic in factions?)
The Great Al
It'd be nice if at least Armor of Earth would be unstrippable.
I mean honestly, I look at a skill like Mantra of Resolve and think, "if that was for an elementalist primary, it'd be an enchantment!"
I mean honestly, I look at a skill like Mantra of Resolve and think, "if that was for an elementalist primary, it'd be an enchantment!"
Hidden in the Mist
Wild Blow = Death of your new stances.
The Great Al
i would much rather take my chances against wild blow than a mesmer or necromancer. The Earth armor spells are a problem either way.
Ristaron
I /sign wholeheartedly for attunements becoming SKILLS. It MAKES SENSE that way. Being more proficient in a certain type of magic isn't something you can enchant yourself with, it's something you learn. Thus having the attunements be enchantments is kind of like saying the Gods ZAP you with the knowledge you need to use a certain type of magic more efficiently.
Then there's Elemental Attunement...
Then there's Elemental Attunement...
Tongloid Tarthwood
Well, you said that you wished stances were stripable, and they are ,with wild blow.
But, I'm going to assume that you meant that you don't want mesmers to be able to stop you. Man, you really havn't got a clue. The mesmer is described as the way to shut down casters. If suddenly all your spells are UB3R and mesmer-proof, then won't they want them nerfed?
But then, there are probably more eles than mesmers, to stop it being changed back. And then, following your example, warriors will start to ask for some skills that aren't affected by hexes or conditions. There are quite a few warriors, so A-net would have to oblige because they did with you. Suddenly everyone plays a warrior because warrior shutdown doesn't work any more, thus warriors are unstopable.
Nobody is playing any other proffesion in pvp and it's all your fault. How does that make you feel.
But, I'm going to assume that you meant that you don't want mesmers to be able to stop you. Man, you really havn't got a clue. The mesmer is described as the way to shut down casters. If suddenly all your spells are UB3R and mesmer-proof, then won't they want them nerfed?
But then, there are probably more eles than mesmers, to stop it being changed back. And then, following your example, warriors will start to ask for some skills that aren't affected by hexes or conditions. There are quite a few warriors, so A-net would have to oblige because they did with you. Suddenly everyone plays a warrior because warrior shutdown doesn't work any more, thus warriors are unstopable.
Nobody is playing any other proffesion in pvp and it's all your fault. How does that make you feel.
Dr Strangelove
Nah, I think they're mostly ok. Attunements are a waste in high end GvG because of stripping, but in low end PvP and PvE where only moderate stripping exists and good ele learns to cover his enchants with aura of restoration.
Seriously guys, it has a 10 second recharge for a reason.
Seriously guys, it has a 10 second recharge for a reason.
frojack
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Nah, I think they're mostly ok. Attunements are a waste in high end GvG because of stripping, but in low end PvP and PvE where only moderate stripping exists and good ele learns to cover his enchants with aura of restoration.
Seriously guys, it has a 10 second recharge for a reason. |
samifly
stances dont stack...
The Great Al
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Originally Posted by Tongloid Tarthwood
Well, you said that you wished stances were stripable, and they are ,with wild blow.
But, I'm going to assume that you meant that you don't want mesmers to be able to stop you. Man, you really havn't got a clue. The mesmer is described as the way to shut down casters. If suddenly all your spells are UB3R and mesmer-proof, then won't they want them nerfed? But then, there are probably more eles than mesmers, to stop it being changed back. And then, following your example, warriors will start to ask for some skills that aren't affected by hexes or conditions. There are quite a few warriors, so A-net would have to oblige because they did with you. Suddenly everyone plays a warrior because warrior shutdown doesn't work any more, thus warriors are unstopable. Nobody is playing any other proffesion in pvp and it's all your fault. How does that make you feel. |
This is the main reason I hate the idea of a second profession. I am fine with the idea of mesmers being the profession to shut down casters. However, EVERY OTHER PRIMARY PROFESSION can just as easily shut down casters if they take /Me or /N, especially with enchant stripping. There's nothing really wrong with mesmers being able to strip my enchants, but you are missing the point - enchant stripping is not part of the primary attribute; any profession, including tanks, can strip casters. It is not at all the same with stances; stances will only be broken by other tanks, or possibly assassins, unless there is another stance breaker that i am missing. Water elementalists are supposed to be anti-tank? Then give us a stance breaker. My point is, elemental enchantments are too easily stripped and able to be stripped by anyone, while stances are not.
BahamutKaiser
I agree that alot more elementist buffs need to be skills or stances.
There are some things to take account for though, first is stances arn't stackable, so if you make most of them stances they woln't stack. Second stances woln't trigger the added energy on Energy Renewal, having several enchantment skills boost particular skills like this. Third is that stances can be broken as well, but stance breaking skills suck and are rarely used, most stances used by other classes are evasive so using a stance break attack usually misses. (On a personal note, stance breaking skills should always break stance, I believe). Lastly, Skill boost are better, they cannot be removed at all.
Skills like Troll Urgent and Critical Eyes cannot be removed, they can only be interrupted or disabled. Ideally, I think attunment skills should be Skills, Elementist basicly need attunments to function normally, their skills can deplete maximum energy quickly, and compared to Rangers expertise, energy storage + attunment is still less effective. With such long recast times and high neccessity, attunement should not be removable. Some defensive techniques for Elementist should be stances, Swirling Aura, Magnetic Aura and Armor of Earth should all be stances, it may dampen the effectiveness of Energy Renewal users, but they already made that inneffective.
I think enchantment stripping is a shutdown Elementist shouldn't have to worry about, honestly, they have some of the longest attack spell cast times, and interruption is very easy, as well as several powerful shutdowns, it is easy enough to destroy their energy, set up backfires, and use an entire class of interrupts to keep them from attacking at all, they should not need to worry about their energy management being stripped.
There are some things to take account for though, first is stances arn't stackable, so if you make most of them stances they woln't stack. Second stances woln't trigger the added energy on Energy Renewal, having several enchantment skills boost particular skills like this. Third is that stances can be broken as well, but stance breaking skills suck and are rarely used, most stances used by other classes are evasive so using a stance break attack usually misses. (On a personal note, stance breaking skills should always break stance, I believe). Lastly, Skill boost are better, they cannot be removed at all.
Skills like Troll Urgent and Critical Eyes cannot be removed, they can only be interrupted or disabled. Ideally, I think attunment skills should be Skills, Elementist basicly need attunments to function normally, their skills can deplete maximum energy quickly, and compared to Rangers expertise, energy storage + attunment is still less effective. With such long recast times and high neccessity, attunement should not be removable. Some defensive techniques for Elementist should be stances, Swirling Aura, Magnetic Aura and Armor of Earth should all be stances, it may dampen the effectiveness of Energy Renewal users, but they already made that inneffective.
I think enchantment stripping is a shutdown Elementist shouldn't have to worry about, honestly, they have some of the longest attack spell cast times, and interruption is very easy, as well as several powerful shutdowns, it is easy enough to destroy their energy, set up backfires, and use an entire class of interrupts to keep them from attacking at all, they should not need to worry about their energy management being stripped.
The Great Al
Troll ungent was actually one of the skills that first gave me this idea. Why shouldn't that be strippable???
samifly
Troll, Critical Eye, Rit Lord, Endure/Defy Pain are all non-strippable skills.
Troll isnt strippable because its so laughable to interrupt.
I think stuff like Armor of Earth would be overpowered if they were not enchants though.
Troll isnt strippable because its so laughable to interrupt.
I think stuff like Armor of Earth would be overpowered if they were not enchants though.
Hidden in the Mist
Not really, it be more easier to strip due to warriors/assassins bringing some sort of anti-stance skills now.
Goonter
There are certain enchantments that are largely useless do to the rightfully commoness of enchantment removal.
Those ones would certainly benefit from a weapon spell type buff in where the enchantment can not be stripped.
Perhaps the induction of Hard Enchantments?
Those ones would certainly benefit from a weapon spell type buff in where the enchantment can not be stripped.
Perhaps the induction of Hard Enchantments?
The Great Al
I'm not really up to date on my RPG knowledge, is an 'attunement' the same as an 'enchantment'? If not, then there should be elemental spells are that are attunements and not enchantments, and if mesmers really are 'anti casters', then they should have a primary skill that can strip attunements. If they are the same, then forget I posted this 
Ristaron
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Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser
I agree that alot more elementist buffs need to be skills or stances.
There are some things to take account for though, first is stances arn't stackable, so if you make most of them stances they woln't stack. Second stances woln't trigger the added energy on Energy Renewal, having several enchantment skills boost particular skills like this. Third is that stances can be broken as well, but stance breaking skills suck and are rarely used, most stances used by other classes are evasive so using a stance break attack usually misses. (On a personal note, stance breaking skills should always break stance, I believe). Lastly, Skill boost are better, they cannot be removed at all. Skills like Troll Urgent and Critical Eyes cannot be removed, they can only be interrupted or disabled. Ideally, I think attunment skills should be Skills, Elementist basicly need attunments to function normally, their skills can deplete maximum energy quickly, and compared to Rangers expertise, energy storage + attunment is still less effective. With such long recast times and high neccessity, attunement should not be removable. Some defensive techniques for Elementist should be stances, Swirling Aura, Magnetic Aura and Armor of Earth should all be stances, it may dampen the effectiveness of Energy Renewal users, but they already made that inneffective. I think enchantment stripping is a shutdown Elementist shouldn't have to worry about, honestly, they have some of the longest attack spell cast times, and interruption is very easy, as well as several powerful shutdowns, it is easy enough to destroy their energy, set up backfires, and use an entire class of interrupts to keep them from attacking at all, they should not need to worry about their energy management being stripped. |
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Nah, I think they're mostly ok. Attunements are a waste in high end GvG because of stripping, but in low end PvP and PvE where only moderate stripping exists and good ele learns to cover his enchants with aura of restoration.
Seriously guys, it has a 10 second recharge for a reason. |
Oh, and you have more time to recover energy in GvG (don't dismiss me, I play GvG too), as half the time you're positioning yourself (ESPECIALLY in high end GvG) for maximum efficiency in combat. This reduces the need for attunements, a luxury people who do all other manners of PvP are not blessed with.
Elementalists have been hit constantly by ANet's nerf bat, it's high time they got something back.
TadaceAce
They are not going to be stances... wtf good would that be you can't go dual attunement if they are stances. They would be SKILLS like crit eye and rit lord.
This wouldn't effect pvp jack, you would see more eles in low end pvp (where attunements never got stripped anyway). Ether prodigy would still be used over dual attunements in GvG and HA for obvious reasons. What it would effect is PvE where eles need a buff. This is a really good idea and Anet should give it some serious thought.
Update July 23: Attunement spells are no longer enchantments. They are now skills.
This wouldn't effect pvp jack, you would see more eles in low end pvp (where attunements never got stripped anyway). Ether prodigy would still be used over dual attunements in GvG and HA for obvious reasons. What it would effect is PvE where eles need a buff. This is a really good idea and Anet should give it some serious thought.
Update July 23: Attunement spells are no longer enchantments. They are now skills.
The Great Al
you're 100% right; skills would be better than stances.
you got me excited for a minute until I realized that today's the 16th
Maybe I'm stubborn, but I normally refuse a cover enchantment, I mean we only have 8 slots!
you got me excited for a minute until I realized that today's the 16th
Maybe I'm stubborn, but I normally refuse a cover enchantment, I mean we only have 8 slots!
Lexar
Maybe not very important to a lot of people, but elementalists are basically the archetype of wizards, they use magic. Warriors use physical and martial training hence they use stances, and mantras which technically work like stances in the game, are closer to being in a trance, which fits mesmers. Rangers with their stances are mostly evading and other stuff that fits in the role. But I don't really see stances fitting into the elementalist theme.
Terra Xin
stances DONT fit into the elementalists theme, thats why the male class are such bad dancers.
Anyway, Lexar explained it really well.
It would be interesting for someone to contemplate a way to make armour of mist a stance.... concept wise... it makes little sense.
Anyway, Lexar explained it really well.
It would be interesting for someone to contemplate a way to make armour of mist a stance.... concept wise... it makes little sense.
exiled mat
It would be a good way to buff the ele's if attunements became skills.
As an ele i rely on my atunments for energy management (don't flame me ) And i'm most time screwed since most pve monster groups have some sort of enchantment removal skill. 
As an ele i rely on my atunments for energy management (don't flame me
) And i'm most time screwed since most pve monster groups have some sort of enchantment removal skill.
The Great Al
I agree that stances don't really fit into the elementalist profession; skills would make the most sense. It would be more of a balancing than a buff.
TadaceAce
quit talking about stances, we are talking about making them skills, stances don't stack so dual attunement wouldn't be possible making them even more worthless.
Terra Xin
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Originally Posted by TadaceAce
quit talking about stances, we are talking about making them skills, stances don't stack so dual attunement wouldn't be possible making them even more worthless.
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An attunement to be made into skills instead of enchantments? An attunement is more like a state, than something you actually do. Making it into a skill...hmmm.
Yeah... *thinks* I suppose, you dont need to be enchanted to be attuned to an element, it could come through training and therefore skill.
TadaceAce
I also had something hit me today... why aren't glyphs stances or skills. To me they are the ele version of mantras.
Glyph of concentration, mantra of concentration.... are they not the exact same thing cept for the above.
Glyph of concentration, mantra of concentration.... are they not the exact same thing cept for the above.
Dark Dragon
It would be nice for attenuments to be skills
but i think armour of earth and stuff like that should still be enchaments it. your enchanting your armour to be as hard as rock etc
but i think armour of earth and stuff like that should still be enchaments it. your enchanting your armour to be as hard as rock etc
isamu kurosawa
I think the basic Attunements should be stances, as should armour of mist/frost and make ele attune and possibly others skills, such as endrue pain or trolls ungent.
then dual attunement is possible unless you want extra armour/speed in water.
then dual attunement is possible unless you want extra armour/speed in water.
prism2525
isamu stop talking about attunements as stances or you'll get flamed by the ppl here
Make attunements a new kind of spell. There are ward spells, enchantment spells, spells... Just make them Attunement Spells so they are still interruptable by standard mesmer interrupts but cannot be stripped or shattered. They have 2 seconds of cast time so even a green mesmer can interrupt them.
For the magnetic aura and others... how about making them 'armor spells'? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that ALL such spells should be turned into armor spells. Magnetic aura could be just a skill imo, i mean... you can't remove someone's aura!
Make attunements a new kind of spell. There are ward spells, enchantment spells, spells... Just make them Attunement Spells so they are still interruptable by standard mesmer interrupts but cannot be stripped or shattered. They have 2 seconds of cast time so even a green mesmer can interrupt them.
For the magnetic aura and others... how about making them 'armor spells'? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that ALL such spells should be turned into armor spells. Magnetic aura could be just a skill imo, i mean... you can't remove someone's aura!
JR
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Originally Posted by TadaceAce
This wouldn't effect pvp jack, you would see more eles in low end pvp (where attunements never got stripped anyway). Ether prodigy would still be used over dual attunements in GvG and HA for obvious reasons. What it would effect is PvE where eles need a buff. This is a really good idea and Anet should give it some serious thought.
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Undivine
I would be hesitant to make them stances, because it would be nice to use some mesmer stances at the same time. I think I like the idea of making them "Attunement Spells." Then they can make up whatever rules they want for them, such as only having 1 at a time and not being removable. That would also allow the opportunity to introduce new kinds of attunements. How about a glyph attunement (all glyphs are cast instantly and cost no energy)? Or magic attunement (when casting any spell, you gain 15% of the energy back)? Or enchantment attunement?
Cjlr
Making them stances would be kind of dumb, because you couldn't stack them anymore. Then again, they should be a little more durable. As it is you've got to bring a cover enchant (or two!) and even then you get stripped. Elemental attunement, x attunement, conjure x, aura of restoration... Now you've got four attack skills, but really three because you have a res sig. So... gg to you. Why don't you go play a class that doesn't suck?
Other than the attunements, there aren't many skills that I would change from enchantments to something else - eles would be overpowered if you could throw up three or four non-removable buffs.
Other than the attunements, there aren't many skills that I would change from enchantments to something else - eles would be overpowered if you could throw up three or four non-removable buffs.
Vermilion
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Originally Posted by JR-
If you could use dual Attunements without worrying about them being stripped it would be infinately better than Ether Prodigy. Quite positively imbalanced.
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Quote:
| Make attunements a new kind of spell. There are ward spells, enchantment spells, spells... Just make them Attunement Spells so they are still interruptable by standard mesmer interrupts but cannot be stripped or shattered. They have 2 seconds of cast time so even a green mesmer can interrupt them. |
frojack
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Originally Posted by Vermilion
mhmhm. 80% back for every spell, and the attunements can be kept up indefinately. Besides the fact that a balancing/buff/w.e like this contradicts the changing of Ele Attunement to energy storage to nerf Me/Es. (ok, *balance* them.)
I gotta say I like this idea. |
The Glyph idea is probably the most applicable to this. Glyphs have cast time, but cannot be removed. In fact I am quite surprised there aren't more of these for the elementalist. Especially since it's their unique speciality. All the current ones are just base utility things. Reduce energy cost here, cast time there. Plus they are non-attribute, meaning they are usable by everyone (The reason I assume, most are quite tame). There's too much Enchantment hate going around for all this to remain as it is anyhow.
The Hand Of Death
/sign for attunements to be skills
/notsigned for armor of mist, armor of earth, ect. to be stances. Last time I checked having rocks get stuck to you or mist to surround you is not a normal kind of stance to be in. The mantra's for the mesmer is more like a mindset rather than a stance, and obviously something like that can't be removed. No the armor skills and running skills should stay enchantments because the elementalist is using the powers of the elements to enhance something and not a kind of battle stance.
/notsigned for armor of mist, armor of earth, ect. to be stances. Last time I checked having rocks get stuck to you or mist to surround you is not a normal kind of stance to be in. The mantra's for the mesmer is more like a mindset rather than a stance, and obviously something like that can't be removed. No the armor skills and running skills should stay enchantments because the elementalist is using the powers of the elements to enhance something and not a kind of battle stance.