Hammers actually don't deal more dmg over time than axe/sword attacks, but they should.
While playing with hammer you lose 16 armor, 30 health and a second defense mod (cause of missing shield).
Because of their slow attack rate, you can't gain adrenaline fast, you don't get much energy through zealous mod and 20/20 sundering is just a joke.
I know some hammer skills got knockdown. But that's imho the one and only reason why people are playing with hammer. And that's why we never see hammer warriors in pve.
Imho there should be a chance of "attribute points in hammer mastery" percent for knockdown while attacking and/or using an attack skill... and the attack rate should be slightley increased.
Share your thoughts. I'm sad of collecting hammers and not using them.
Hammer warriors need a buff... take a look inside.
Cybah
actionjack
I played a Hammer warrior for most part of my PvE, and I like it.
I think they are alrite, but a small buf won't hurt (since they are already missing the shield and/or off hand item)
I don't like the suggested changes thought... no on %of knockdown and increase attack rate. I think just up the attack damage up a few points should be good enough.
and anyone else remember the nerf stick that smack the heck out of the old hammer warrior? good times
I think they are alrite, but a small buf won't hurt (since they are already missing the shield and/or off hand item)
I don't like the suggested changes thought... no on %of knockdown and increase attack rate. I think just up the attack damage up a few points should be good enough.
and anyone else remember the nerf stick that smack the heck out of the old hammer warrior? good times
Cybah
vampire mod is 5/1 instead of 3/1
therefore all other mods should be better at hammers too:
zealous 1.66/-1
sundering 20% - chance 33.3%
furious double - chance 16.6%
and so on. there is absolutely no reason why only vampire mod is buffed.
therefore all other mods should be better at hammers too:
zealous 1.66/-1
sundering 20% - chance 33.3%
furious double - chance 16.6%
and so on. there is absolutely no reason why only vampire mod is buffed.
Caleb
I would love to see more hammer warriors, so give them something new to try out!
Juicey Shake
hammer warriors do more damage in 1 hit than over time.. more spiking potential.. is what it's good for. Fine as they are. The 5:1 / 3:1 corresponding to other mods is pointless~ they'd have to buff bow mods, too, which would make bows too overpowered.
X of Thulcandra
I play a hammer warrior in PvE myself, and I must say it's quite a refreshing change from the commonplace Swords/Axes/Shields. I usually use Flurry for my IAS, and it actually works nicely. I must agree that the loss of defense hurts somewhat, so I make sure I always pack at *least* Watch Yourself and Dolyak Signet. But yeah, a buff of some sorts would be nice... One handed hammers would be neat, like in this pic:
Almost all the hammers used back in the medieval/dark ages were one-handed anyways.
Almost all the hammers used back in the medieval/dark ages were one-handed anyways.
Master Fuhon
It's similar to a caster using a staff, which in most cases gets beaten out by a focus and wand/weapon combo. I don't see why the hammer warrior doesn't at least mantain some of the functionality that the other two weapon masteries have.
Hammers have the same damage modifiers with two upgrades, the same as axe and sword. Hammer cannot use a shield which is +16 AL and two bonus modifiers. It almost seems like hammers should drop with at least one of other inherent mod on them (+armor/health or -2 in stance, etc. at the least).
There's no excuse for a team not to have adequate hammer warrior counters, by either messing with the adrenaline gain process or screwing up the slow heavy hitting combos. So in that way, hammer warriors need help. However, whatever change that gets made might be helping Rangers with pets more.
Hammers have the same damage modifiers with two upgrades, the same as axe and sword. Hammer cannot use a shield which is +16 AL and two bonus modifiers. It almost seems like hammers should drop with at least one of other inherent mod on them (+armor/health or -2 in stance, etc. at the least).
There's no excuse for a team not to have adequate hammer warrior counters, by either messing with the adrenaline gain process or screwing up the slow heavy hitting combos. So in that way, hammer warriors need help. However, whatever change that gets made might be helping Rangers with pets more.
waiver
Hah. I love everyone calling out for nerfs. Hammers are ment to be spikers, not fast god-like dmg machines. Knockdown is just about the only thing they deserve. Hammers are like staves, stop whining, you have other options.
Mesmer in Need
Quote:
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Originally Posted by X of Thulcandra
One handed hammers would be neat, like in this pic:
Almost all the hammers used back in the medieval/dark ages were one-handed anyways. |
Also, rangers have been limeted to 2h weapons always too and you dont see them complaining
Cybah
rangers are not melee. stop comparing apples with bananas.
Celab
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need
Is that a chess piece????
Also, rangers have been limeted to 2h weapons always too and you dont see them complaining |
[/sarcasm]
hammers are fine as they are. i would like to see more skills revolving around them which dont require "lose all adren" or energy costs for a decent combo though.
Seef II
Quote:
| Also, rangers have been limeted to 2h weapons always too and you dont see them complaining |
Check the hammer thread in Gladiator's Arena. While on paper hammers actually look kind of bad, there's really nothing scarier than being chased by a good hammer warrior.
unholy guardian
hammers are very good, although slow yes. I wouldn't mind a minor buff though, the mods are kinda useless to use.. well some of them at least.
Cybah
in pvp maybe because of 1on1 situations.
in pve hammer warriors...... are just a bad joke.
in pve hammer warriors...... are just a bad joke.
Mesmer in Need
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cybah
rangers are not melee. stop comparing apples with bananas.
|
Also, which is an apple and which is a bannana?
Cybah
my topic is not: hammer warriors need a buff because they are worse than rangers or any other class.
it's just an imbalance thing within the warrior build. try comparing hammer to axe/sword for yourself in pve.
it's just an imbalance thing within the warrior build. try comparing hammer to axe/sword for yourself in pve.
Khift
Hammers are unwanted in PvE for the same reason Mesmers are unwanted in PvE -- you don't need any disruption whatsoever. Hammers are loved (And hated, by monks) in PvP because they simultaneously provide large amounts of damage and large amounts of disruption, but in PvE this is a moot point. The only thing that is necessary is damage.
In short, make PvE more challenging and more disruption-oriented and all the sudden Hammer Warriors, Mesmers and all sorts of other classes suddenly become desirable. Until then, though, back to mass carnage!
In short, make PvE more challenging and more disruption-oriented and all the sudden Hammer Warriors, Mesmers and all sorts of other classes suddenly become desirable. Until then, though, back to mass carnage!
actionjack
uh.. melee mean hand-to-hand fighting...
also... lets see how far hammer attack are.. compare to bows....
3rdly... there were few other thread complaing about bows, as well as wanting none-marksman bows.
Anyone else remember how Hammer Warrior are before the nerf in beta? I think thier knock down was lot longer, don't lost all adr, and fear by many.
Anyhow... give hammer a bit damage to compsenate for its 2 hand and slowness. The skills and attack speed are fine. A few better mods (like +8AL) would help too.
also... lets see how far hammer attack are.. compare to bows....
3rdly... there were few other thread complaing about bows, as well as wanting none-marksman bows.
Anyone else remember how Hammer Warrior are before the nerf in beta? I think thier knock down was lot longer, don't lost all adr, and fear by many.
Anyhow... give hammer a bit damage to compsenate for its 2 hand and slowness. The skills and attack speed are fine. A few better mods (like +8AL) would help too.
CHUIU
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cybah
Hammers actually don't deal more dmg over time than axe/sword attacks, but they should.
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Hyper Cutter
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need
Also, rangers have been limeted to 2h weapons always too and you dont see them complaining
|
Cybah
Quote:
| Stopped reading there. I don't know what kind of hammer you use but I deal way more damage with a hammer than I do with axe/sword on the shortrun and longrun. |
Quote:
| I've even taken out sword/axe warriors with some hammer warrior builds. |
Note to all: I'm speaking of a pve buff. I know how annoying knockdown warriors can be in pvp.
0mar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cybah
Look above. I don't talk about 1on1 situations. And without knockdown you would lose any fight. |
Divinus Stella
Adding an inherent armor bonus into hammer might help, i cant see any harm in having something like Armor+16 or something in the same way staves have energy+10, perhaps even armor+20 to compensate for the loss of the -dmg and +hp.
Cybah
Quote:
| That's the whole point of hammer warriors, for knockdown chains. |
More armor wouldnt make any sense. But the basic dmg should be maybe the double of a sword attack: 22-44.
Mesmer in Need
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter
Do yourself a favor and go look up the "ranger weapons with requirements other than Marksmanship" thread in this very forum...
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-Deviance-
Hammer Warriors need NO buffs. Their is plenty of builds that you can make to speed up the time of attacks. You can have a W/R and use Tiger's Fury to speed it up or use W/any and just use "For Great Justice" or use the elite skill "Rage". Also even though hammer don't deal damage over 'time' you can coordinate skills to which when they are activated in sequence they take massive damage. For instance:
1. Tiger's Fury
2. Ferocious Strike [e]
3. Hammer Bash
4. Crushing Blow
5. Irresistable Blow
I use that a lot and it about knocks any 'squishie' target to very low health. If Hammer warriors were buffed I think they would pretty much kill everything. I know that with my hammer warrior I can take down pretty much everything except for degen mesmers or necros because that pretty much beats any warrior without hex removals.
If you are having a problem with energy you could always go W/N and use "For Great Justice" to make your adrenaline catch up faster and then when you are low on energy just use Offering Of Blood.
There is many ways you can go around the 'lacks' of having a hammer. And many builds are out there that can make a hammer warrior very good. There is also many builds that can kila hammer warrior in no time at all.
1. Tiger's Fury
2. Ferocious Strike [e]
3. Hammer Bash
4. Crushing Blow
5. Irresistable Blow
I use that a lot and it about knocks any 'squishie' target to very low health. If Hammer warriors were buffed I think they would pretty much kill everything. I know that with my hammer warrior I can take down pretty much everything except for degen mesmers or necros because that pretty much beats any warrior without hex removals.
If you are having a problem with energy you could always go W/N and use "For Great Justice" to make your adrenaline catch up faster and then when you are low on energy just use Offering Of Blood.
There is many ways you can go around the 'lacks' of having a hammer. And many builds are out there that can make a hammer warrior very good. There is also many builds that can kila hammer warrior in no time at all.
waiver
Okay Cybah. Your really annoying me. Hammers are ment has they are made, stop whining. Hammers are ment as spikes. Period. If you dont like it, pick up an axe or sword.
"But the basic dmg should be maybe the double of a sword attack: 22-44."
Ha. That wouldn't be balencing. Like I said in my last post, you're trying to make them some godly 3-hit-kill weapon.
"But the basic dmg should be maybe the double of a sword attack: 22-44."
Ha. That wouldn't be balencing. Like I said in my last post, you're trying to make them some godly 3-hit-kill weapon.
ShadowsRequiem
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Seef II
Bad analogy, it's because rangers don't have another viable choice.
Check the hammer thread in Gladiator's Arena. While on paper hammers actually look kind of bad, there's really nothing scarier than being chased by a good hammer warrior. |
(only read page one kinda got sick to my stomach)
Evilsod
The armour mods are a bit crap for a hammer... the exact same as an axe. Same goes for the Zealous Mod... axes gain twice the energy a Horn Bow would.
Hammers have much more shock damage than an axe. Backbreaker is alot more terryfying to a monk than Eviscerate. Eviscerate you can move to avoid the Executioners Strike. Backbreaker your stuck fast for 4 seconds.
Hammers have much more shock damage than an axe. Backbreaker is alot more terryfying to a monk than Eviscerate. Eviscerate you can move to avoid the Executioners Strike. Backbreaker your stuck fast for 4 seconds.
Tien ak
Backbreaker+ crushing blow + Aftershock = 200 dmg
Yeah not bad if you ask me the thing with those dummies you tested on don't fall to the ground my fav Hammer build is Irresistable blow, Mighty blow, Backbreaker, Crushing blow, After shock, Frenzy, healing sig and res sig
but yeah test it out in RA you may be a tad happy with the results...
I think the mention of Defensive mods is a good idea +16 one is a no no for me more like +10 would be balanced.
PS Waiver no one asked if cybah was annoying you. take your bad sacastic humor some where else please no ones being an arse hole to you.
Yeah not bad if you ask me the thing with those dummies you tested on don't fall to the ground my fav Hammer build is Irresistable blow, Mighty blow, Backbreaker, Crushing blow, After shock, Frenzy, healing sig and res sig
but yeah test it out in RA you may be a tad happy with the results...
I think the mention of Defensive mods is a good idea +16 one is a no no for me more like +10 would be balanced.
PS Waiver no one asked if cybah was annoying you. take your bad sacastic humor some where else please no ones being an arse hole to you.
lyra_song
Ok, as both a PvE and PvP hammer warrior i will give my opinions.
Personally i love hammers. They cause a lot of damage and KD is awesome disruption.
For PvE, the hammer is very unwieldy. You will often face 5-6 enemies at a time and the lack of armor REALLY doesn't pay off for the amount of damage you cause in the long run. The high costs of adrenaline doesnt pay off either. I often find myself with a bunch of dead enemies before i can finish my chain combos.
While its true the KD is powerful disruption, it has very limited use in PVE, because theres very few enemies that can even survive a hammer warrior with IAS on in a 1 on 1 situation.
I find that a hammer warrior as a SECOND warrior is a great help to an axe or a sword warrior.
Concerning PvP:
Hammer warriors were the bane of existence before rise of the boon-prot. I used to use the old KD/AS combos and would usually kill any monk in TA by myself.
However nowadays, i find that hammer warriors are still powerful but have been replaced by more attractive warrior styles like the Shock Warrior who have more utility than a dedicated KDer.
in short, i think there should be some buff to hammer skills, but not the hammer mods themselves.
Personally i love hammers. They cause a lot of damage and KD is awesome disruption.
For PvE, the hammer is very unwieldy. You will often face 5-6 enemies at a time and the lack of armor REALLY doesn't pay off for the amount of damage you cause in the long run. The high costs of adrenaline doesnt pay off either. I often find myself with a bunch of dead enemies before i can finish my chain combos.
While its true the KD is powerful disruption, it has very limited use in PVE, because theres very few enemies that can even survive a hammer warrior with IAS on in a 1 on 1 situation.
I find that a hammer warrior as a SECOND warrior is a great help to an axe or a sword warrior.
Concerning PvP:
Hammer warriors were the bane of existence before rise of the boon-prot. I used to use the old KD/AS combos and would usually kill any monk in TA by myself.
However nowadays, i find that hammer warriors are still powerful but have been replaced by more attractive warrior styles like the Shock Warrior who have more utility than a dedicated KDer.
in short, i think there should be some buff to hammer skills, but not the hammer mods themselves.
Osi Ri S
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cybah
THAT opinion exists only because hammer warriors are completely harmless without knockdown.
More armor wouldnt make any sense. But the basic dmg should be maybe the double of a sword attack: 22-44. |
anonymous
Quote:
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Originally Posted by X of Thulcandra
Almost all the hammers used back in the medieval/dark ages were one-handed anyways.
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Curse You
Quote:
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Originally Posted by anonymous
Seriously, warriors can survive getting hit in the head with a meteor but cant pick up a hammer with one hand?
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I haven't seen hammer warriors in PvE much. The only one I seee often is Devona, and I occasionally see her knock down enemies.
I think the way hammer warriors are supposed to make up for no sheild is with Knockdown, and Weakness.
Ensign
Hammers aren't used for different reasons by different people.
Good players tend to not use hammers because the big benefit of the line - knockdowns - doesn't work on a significant number of monsters. Against monsters that are vulnerable to knockdowns, hammers are reasonably popular for their combination of damage and mes effects.
Bad players don't use hammers because bad players are suits of armor that happen to carry a weapon, not killing machines that happen to have good armor because they're up there mixing it up.
Peace,
-CxE
Good players tend to not use hammers because the big benefit of the line - knockdowns - doesn't work on a significant number of monsters. Against monsters that are vulnerable to knockdowns, hammers are reasonably popular for their combination of damage and mes effects.
Bad players don't use hammers because bad players are suits of armor that happen to carry a weapon, not killing machines that happen to have good armor because they're up there mixing it up.
Peace,
-CxE
TadaceAce
Why would you buff the hammer, hammer is arguable the most used warrior weapon between the wars and the 1001 thumpers using it.
As far as pve hammer war, enraged smash ftw.
As far as pve hammer war, enraged smash ftw.
Kool Pajamas
If you buff hammers, everyone will be a bunny thumper >.<
actionjack
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Ok, as both a PvE and PvP hammer warrior i will give my opinions.
Personally i love hammers. They cause a lot of damage and KD is awesome disruption. For PvE, the hammer is very unwieldy. You will often face 5-6 enemies at a time and the lack of armor REALLY doesn't pay off for the amount of damage you cause in the long run. The high costs of adrenaline doesnt pay off either. I often find myself with a bunch of dead enemies before i can finish my chain combos. While its true the KD is powerful disruption, it has very limited use in PVE, because theres very few enemies that can even survive a hammer warrior with IAS on in a 1 on 1 situation. I find that a hammer warrior as a SECOND warrior is a great help to an axe or a sword warrior. Concerning PvP: Hammer warriors were the bane of existence before rise of the boon-prot. I used to use the old KD/AS combos and would usually kill any monk in TA by myself. However nowadays, i find that hammer warriors are still powerful but have been replaced by more attractive warrior styles like the Shock Warrior who have more utility than a dedicated KDer. in short, i think there should be some buff to hammer skills, but not the hammer mods themselves. |
I think hammer skills are fine, and fun to play with. However, hammer are penalized for their KD skills, which have too limited of use in many situations.
So I would disagreew with lyra on the in short part, and say hammers skill is fine, but boost hammer stats and mod up a bit to compensate for their slow attack speed and use of 2 hand. Also need to make them bigger.. to compensate for my own needs....
markus_thom
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cybah
Hammers actually don't deal more dmg over time than axe/sword attacks, but they should.
While playing with hammer you lose 16 armor, 30 health and a second defense mod (cause of missing shield). Because of their slow attack rate, you can't gain adrenaline fast, you don't get much energy through zealous mod and 20/20 sundering is just a joke. I know some hammer skills got knockdown. But that's imho the one and only reason why people are playing with hammer. And that's why we never see hammer warriors in pve. Imho there should be a chance of "attribute points in hammer mastery" percent for knockdown while attacking and/or using an attack skill... and the attack rate should be slightley increased. Share your thoughts. I'm sad of collecting hammers and not using them. |
Navaros
I'm not really an expert at Hammer Warriors but I am an an expert at the Monk class. When I play a Prot Monk in RA, usually Hammer Warriors' knockdowns are just about the only thing that results in my death, other than Dazed.
Whenever I see a Hammer Warrior, I think: "Uh oh, hope we don't lose this one!"
On the other hand, if I see an Axe or Sword Warrior coming at me, I think: "ROFL - here comes a Flawless".
Based on this analysis, I think buffing Hammers would make them way the heck overpowered.
Whenever I see a Hammer Warrior, I think: "Uh oh, hope we don't lose this one!"
On the other hand, if I see an Axe or Sword Warrior coming at me, I think: "ROFL - here comes a Flawless".
Based on this analysis, I think buffing Hammers would make them way the heck overpowered.