I know I was wrong, but c'mon...

Ok, I need the community to tell me if I am as big of a jackhole as "Karen" (name changed for obvious reasons) made me out to be.

Here's what happened:

I wanted to cap Eviscerate on my warrior, but didn't want to wait until Hell's Precipice to get it, so I opted to shoot for Tanzit in SF. Wiki told me that he spawns on the Oro quest, so I joined an Oro quest group. (I would've just done a farm run, but I have 0 exprience at stance tanking so I figured it wouldnt go well.)My mistake, which I fully acknowledge as a mistake, was not telling my group that I had a desire other than the main quest objective. Note that I had not intended on ditching the party after capping, and I tried to explain this to Karen, but- nevermind, that's later.

So off we go. It was actually not me that directed the party into the cavern where Tanzit had so conveniently spawned, though I suspect that Karen assumed that I did. It was the place where there are Dredge's and some stairs, and then it leads off into that tree-ish area. Tanzit sat at the bottom of the stairs. We killed off all but Tanzit's mob before anyone questioned why we were going that way, since that isn't where Oro goes. I announced that I wanted to cap from Tanzit, and being that he was so close, it wouldn't take long. I even begged, but alas they all headed the other way. Right about then was where the confrontation with Karen was born.

I should point out that our healer dropped from the party right after leaving Tanzit behind. I should also point out that although I feel Karen severely over-reacted to my wrong-doing, she never swore, which is something she should take pride in. Thumbs up to that!

So, Karen starts going off at me about how I shouldn't abandon loyalty for my own greed. At that point, I admit that I didn't see the error of my actions. I don't think anyone believed me when I told them I had not intended on dropping form the party.

To sum up the next few minutes into 3 simple words; (1) We (2) Got (3) Owned. All of a sudden, it was all my fault. Karen said that if I hadn't abandoned the party (when did that happen?) and gone after Tanzit (once again, I didn't lead us there. How could I have even known where he spawned?) then we would not have failed. Personally, I attribute our failure to the fact that we lost our healer and were relying on a bonder to save us, and that we had a couple too many wammos. Once again, I know now that I definitely should have told my party that I wanted to cap, but I still fail to see how a trip to Tanzit's metaphorical doorstep, which incurred no deaths to the party, played a role in our demise.

After dieing a few times, the party fell apart. The leader ported him/herself, me, and Karen back to town, where I decided that, since I couldn't get a word in if I tried, I would not try. I left the party. I found a new group, but discovered that Karen had beat me to it, and sat in the party position above me. After she announced that she would leave the party unless I forfeited my position, I left. I wanted to drop the argument right there, but I just couldn't. I needed to know in perfect detail exactly how my innapropriate failure to inform the team about my alternate goal contributed to the overall downfall fo the team.

She cited my extreme lack of teamwork, my selfishness and my utter abandonment of loyalty to my comrades first and foremost.

I understand that it was wrong of me not to tell the team I wanted to cap, but the fact that the party took a small detour which, by coincidence, was exactly the detour I wanted played absolutely zero role in our death, in my opinion.

Basically what I'm saying with this is that yes, I made a bad move, but Karen really freaked out too much. I was undeserving of such a harsh barrage of unkind words.


Community, I ask you now; Am I an ***hole? Go ahead and be honest, after that lashing from Karen, I can take anything.

Piece of advice. If you are capping use hencies unless you tried and cant do it, then join a capping grp.

Yeah it was your fault for not mentioning that you had another agenda. I mean that's why you were there in the first place, right?

Ya, but i also did want the quest.

I know I was wrong, as I said, but was Karen overeacting? I mean she really wouldn't let up on me, like I killed a puppy or something.

You made a mistake telling them about capping. I mean, if you don't want to tell the group at first, don't ever mention about it.

They were there for the quest, trying to kill something unnecessary AFTER realized that you're on the wrong way is not a good way to finish the quest.

But don't get too work up about it. XD

um...It's a game. both of you need to chill out.

I mentioned it because he was right there in front of me, but the group was leaving. I doubted that anyone would come back and get it with me after.

Oh, and I just found Karen in game and invited her to come post here. I dunno if she will or not.

If you were right in front of Tanzit..I woulda just ran in and started fighting...

Then its they HAVE to come back or they let a warrior drop...

Then when they say "NOO IDIOT IT ISNT THAT WAY" You coulda blew it off like "Oh, Sorry, I thought since we were going this way We'd continue"

and that woulda been that...

True...that would've avoided the conflict, but it's also equally dishonest as not telling my group about capping. Then I would have been ***hole times 2.

You woulda been an "***hole" to yourself...noone else...

Gotta learn how to play things. Its ten times better for you in the situation (in their eyes) just to be seen as a "Newb" and just continue on, than to have all the conflict.

I'm not heartless. I would feel bad about lieing mroe, although you are right, it would have prevented alot of conflict.

You take this shit real seriously, don't you?

Why did you post this? You already know it was wrong of you to not to tell the others beforehand of your prime intentions, and perhaps rude but understandable of them to not help you quickly finish what you needed, though the group's failure wasn't entirely your fault. Ok? Go play.

Actually, I'm an ***hole. You're more of a dude who needs to maybe take a day or two off from GW. Seriously dude... F*** Karen. Why do you even care? Whether you capped it or not, you were going to finish the quest and it was the monk who dropped. Drink a Coke. Have a smoke. Get over it.

Meh, you made a mistake. You should have said something like "Hey, while we're at it, I'd like to...." before heading out. Or you can ask your party to head back and cap it after completing the quest. Learn from it and move on.

(BTW, IMHO the biggest jerk in the story was the Monk who bailed on the entire party.)

I have no idea who you people are.

But im rooting for cananidan bacon.

and i totally agree with kook about the monk.

Maybe the monk used the skill in my avatar on himself.

Then again, he was probably just one of the typical over-reacting spaz monks that join farming groups all the time, then leave if one thing annoys them.

Cap and ditch. What can they do?

Chick over reacted, you were in the clear, but seriously, you are taking the whole thing way to seriously. As was stated above, if you stopped just short of the boss you needed, I would have just engaged before anyone could have said otherwise. Prevents the argument, and once you show you aren't ditching them, everyone is content.

this was Completely your fault, in fact you shouldnt even have made this post, cause it indubitably your fault which i will say again blahblahblah..etc

above remarks was sarcasm

You shouldnt have joined a quest group just so u can cap, but i think that other person slightly overreacted over a game

I hate that quote, "errrr its just a game man"

How dont we know lifes a game?

Just being skilly by the way.

go baconman ^.^'

Never ask forum goers advice or an opinion about anything remotely to do with your own person. It always turns ugly.

you know your right... and to the OP you just gotta learn that people are idiots...

yea all of you LOL

no for real youll be less dispointed that way and actually be appreciative when you find those few inteligent idiots out there :P

I don't think you did anything wrong mate to be honest.

You where all right next to the boss, and the others could give 1-2 mins of there time to help you get a cap when they weren't in danger of losing the quest.

That other player is just a twit in my opinion. After they all ran off, you joined up with them and as a team got killed...... how the hell can that imbecile blame you when you where there with them when they died?????


As for not telling them you came for the skill cap, as you said you would have stayed and done the quest with them, so you have nothing to feal guilty about. You just joined a pug that was unconsiderate to the rest of there members.

I don't get it. I've been in parties with people who wanted to cap something and didn't say, and I've been in parties when I wanted to cap and didn't say. When the capping happens, no one complains unless someone actually ditches (which I don't see all that often).

If the cap requires going a bit out of the way, then say something up front. Many people really won't mind, and it's not like parties are formed only for the benefit of one or two players.

Well basically you said it yourself - you were selfish, and didn't really think of mentioning that you intended to cap a skill from a non quest mob, it's pretty much a must to do that.

However in both this game and other games like WoW people are extremely selfish and basically only want to go for what they want, I guess that happens because these kind of games cater more to competitive powergamers than to people with a background in RPG's and such.

Personally that's why I pretty much exclusively do as much as I can with henchies.
And really the whole social aspect of the game is lost on immature competitive powergamers, they thend not to get simple concepts as cooperation and helping other people out with stuff - they think cooperation is about dancing with guild mates, being obscene, telling stupid jokes and just being annoying in general.

Anyways, as you explain it I don't know why 'karen' went off on you, there was no good reason for it - but then again we only know it from your side, you might have left out something.

Was gonna say something similar to this, but I'll just give it a QFT and 2 thumbs up.

Well how many players in your group?

A long long time ago I did few Oro run with 5-man team.

1 War, 1 MM (Nec), 2 Monk (Heal + Prot)

Also once you enter the SF, (For an inexperience team, already triggered the Oro) Oro will run off on his won change into a group of enemy. If you run off at that point, where the MM don’t even have any Minions yet. Then…

Since no one in the group can do much of damage but you (War), then as soon as monks run out mana, Oro die then its game over.

I do believe it’s your faults, and “Karen” has every right to mad at for wasting 30mins of his time. However just from your story “Karen” is a little bit over did.

Word of Advises:
Next time when you know you are at fault, don’t argue or try to apologize to whom ever Spam msg you. Don’t ever believe a 3 year old will trade you with respect just because you apologized.
Press “N” bring you are you friend menu, put yourself on away or offline. Or just block that user and find a new team.

But really Capping = Hechs. Don’t join a farming team, people expect Pros =).

Can't you just say you're sorry, and have this thread closed? We all make mistakes, and I think you've learned from this one.
Not everybody here posting is really helping you.

By your post it sound like it wasn't your fault, but Karen could've seen it from another view, so it's hard to say who did the wrong thing with only one side of the story.

The one-sided thing is exactly why I told Karen to come post here, though I'm not sure if she heard it through the district 1 clutter (she put me on ignore, so i couldn PM).

Fantom: it was a quest group, not a farm group.

It really wouldn't be that hard to just go with henchies and cap it yourself with a friend or something along those lines. To me you seem very greedy and selfish, reminds me a little of me. That sort of behavior won't win you merits or earn you friends so please next time just bring henchies.

On a more serious note, don't let it get to you when someone blows a fuse in-game. If you weren't going to quit after capping, it doesn't sound too serious to me.

Sorry but thats utter bollox, especially as it's a repeatable quest, people only go there to Farm and I bet there was 5 people

QFT. It takes 2 to argue. If Karen can't handle 1 person bringing a skillcap on a farm run, thats her damage.

Before the gear tank nerf, thats how I capped eviserate. The group i was in had no problems with me doing it. Of course, I did tell them I was bringing a skillcap and, as memory serves, one of the necros decided to as well. Then again, we also completed the farm...but there are some other small differences in our cases.

1st; I told my group. I told my group what I was doing and told them i was doing it because i hadn't been getting good drops lately and wanted to walk out fo the farm with something. You didn't.

2nd; I hadn't been getting good drops recently because I had farmed the ever loving crud out of SF on a regular basis and most of the drops i wanted to get, I had. I was an experienced tank going into a farm, knowing what I was doing. This is how I cap everything. i don't bring a skillcap until my second time through--minimum. I don't know which skills on a run/mission/quest I'm going to need when i'm a newb, but a skillcap is definately not one of them. It serves no purpose to the team until I use it, which is often very late in the run.

You weren't experienced. Worse, you didn't tell any1 that you were nubbing the run. I don't kick newbs out of my teams. I explain the mission and tell them what skills to bring. This helps them learn quickly instead of lying to groups to get the experience I already have.

You want to know what you did wrong? That's what you did wrong. You worried about looking like a "jackhole"? No. But it does make you look like a noob (thats the bad kind).

Always ask before the group sets off if you want to get some other aim done as well. Most usually are ok with it, so long as you ask them before they leave town and willing to do their main objective. Remember, unless you formed the group for your specific task... their goal is more important than your personal one.

Before I gave up 100% with PuGs I would often ask if they minded if I capped. No one ever seemed to care except the rare elitest jerk, in which case I knew I wouldn't have fun in the group to begin with and would drop out right away (this was most fun while playing as my monk ).

Ring of Fire Islands and Sorrows Furnace are sensitive spots for people because of the capping and ditching going on. I don't know how many times people have ditched on a group as soon as they capped the skill they wanted. Same goes for Southern Shiverpeaks.

Skill-cappers are viewed with some suspicion and I imagine they get booted from some groups much the same way that 55 monks get booted from FoW runs.

Well, with only your side of the story to go by, I'd say "karen" used you as a scapegoat to vent her frustrations. For some reason you irritated her and from that point on everything that went wrong was because of you.

If events transpired as you say, then I think the group was being a little heartless running off the way they did when your cap was so easily obtainable.

*insert sweeping generalization about how everybody sucks*

Canadian Bacon
as people have already pointed out you shouldve just said you wanna kill tanzit in case he might drop green item.