Suggestion: No PvE Content Restriction in Nightfall

In Prophecies there is the Favor system which restricts entry into the Underworld and Fissure of Woe.
In Factions there is the Alliance system which restricts entry into The Deep and Urgoz's Warren.

I propose that there should be no such system in Nightfall.

Here are some relevant threads:
Favor Problem
Elite Missions

I believe that both systems' negatives far outweigh their positives, with my main reason being that they are an inconvenience. To sum things up, Favor is, at it's root, a flawed and illogical system, and Elite Missions are only accessable because players have found a way around the system, via ferrying.

In Nightfall, instead of these restrictions, high-end areas should be like the way Sorrow's Furnace is - available to all players, at anytime.

What are your thoughts?

/Signed

I really like this idea...

It's a b**** not to be able to access FoW/UW if your server doesn't have favor. Luckily we have the "ferrying" system for Urgoz and the Deep.

Why, I agree of course. And this adjustment might as well be done retroactively, extinguishing the flawed systems already in place in chapters 1 and 2.

uh no thanks, I like working for rewards, not getting them handed to me.

/signed

I don't care all that much for the UT / FoW, however the expanded concept of it in Faction was annoying.

/Signed.

I'm for a more open game anyway. Hope to see lots of content from low level to high level where players can enter special maps and have fun without restrictions for entering.

To Kijik: The reward is to beat such a level, not to play it.

/partially signed
I do think that there should be restricted content in the game- a sort of reward.
The favor system is a great idea by concept, but in reality Europe holds the favor pretty much all of the time. The favor should be spread more evenly among the regions. Also, as more regions start to play the game, people will have favor even less, causing more of a problem. Uniting several regions into one could be a solution.
The Factions elite mission restriction on the other hand, is a catastophe. Only those who grind get the reward, while the average player will never get to see these missions.
The favor system gives ALL of the players access SOME of the time.
On the other hand, the Factions system gives SOME of the players access ALL of the time.
I do hope Anet does not make the same mistake they did in Factions

I always feel sorry for Japan and Taiwan :/ they never seem to have it...

And here I thought this thread would be about that ridiculous gate system in Factions...

no thanks. i hope there is something like the favor/elite missions in NF. although i was sick and tired of ppl crying about how they cant get into the deep, there should be something that we actually have to WORK for to gain the reward. too mny ppl want these high lvl areas without putting in any effort
/not signed

Problem is...The people working for the rewards are often times NOT the ones reaping the rewards...

This is obvious in the Favor system.

Do you think the teams Holding Halls are actually going into the UW/FoW? And do you think the people in ToA waiting to get into UW/FoW are thinking "maybe I should go try to win halls to get to the UW"? NO on both counts. FIrst off..the teams that are in halls are....pvping....no where near the UW, and how many of the SS/55 groups do you think go to HoH and try to win just to get into UW?

The same limitations are in the Faction Alliance system...At any given point...about 90% of the people in the elite missions are NOT in the alliances that hold it (This I know, because I noted the names of people "LF ferry" and then went in myself...to see MOST of the people in there were the ones "LF ferry" eariler). The actual alliance members are too busy Faction Farming to KEEP access to the missions...

I would agree with your post if the systems in place acutally made you do something to reap the reward, or the people earning the rewards had better access to what they earned..

/signed

Remove all favor and elite (limited access) mission restrictions so players can actually play the content they have paid for.

Want to earn access, tag it to a high end long lasting chain of quests which then unlock the "missions" for the character... this would also add some PvE content too the game... /sarcasm wow, what a idea... PvE content that isn't a few green lettered item that entertains for an hour. Imagine that... /end sarcasm

/not signed

There should ( and probably will be) Something like favor/elite , i hope its more like favor, cause true the elite way sucks.

I see it being something as oasis spawning only when whatever it is in GWN is triggered.

Thanks for the comments so far.

A problem with Favor is that obtaining the reward requires you to play something you might not have any interest in, namely Halls. A similar problem exists in the Alliance system where - if ferrying were not allowed - you'd have to grind faction for your alliance until you got access.

However, those issues aside, why should we work to gain access to those missions? I agree with Pandora's Box - the reward, instead, is in beating those missions. My question, in other words is, what are the problems with open areas like PvE Tombs and SF, compared to restricted areas like UW and FoW?

/signed

i ve never been to those Factions places, bought the items i needed from there, end of story ... requires group of 12 ppl and the access to the outpost ...

both are impossible to get^^

/signed

Favor is just plain annoying.I know we should earn our chance but sometimes we just arent plain good enough,just because we arent good enough doesnt mean we should have limited access to the game.

Elite Missions to me seem like a way for a selected group of people to make some extra cash by ferrying.

/signed

I don't see why I should have to be in a different territory (europe) because my own (American) doesn't have favor usually when Im on.. Maybe I don't want to pvp, so why should I be forced to so I can gain access to pve areas? '

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Anet put in a similar thing in GW:N anyway, but heres to hoping they have something like SF in the works or in place as well.

/not signed

If there were no restrictions to these high end missions, then what ever treasures may be there would loose all value. The only reason i am playing prophecies still is because i want FOW armour. If there were no blocks then even the armour would be pointless.

Without high end blocks we would not have an exclusive area were we can only go once and a while. The blocks ensure that there is an area that is not over farmed, and ravaged by bots. You may say that there are large amounts of 55/SV groups in UW, but just imagine if there weren’t any blocks, the area would be over run. Overall the blocks provide us with and area that is fun and challenging, while also providing reasonable drops.

/Not signed.

The restricted areas have perceived value because of that restriction, and that genuinely adds enjoyment to the experience of playing them.

Take the challenge missions in Factions, for example: They're free to everyone, and nobody really cares about them.

/Not Signed

these places are restricted for a reason. it keeps the value of the items up and makes you enjoy it more.

/partially signed
There should be a block, but as someone mentioned earlier, it should be quest (or maybe mission) related. BUT, to keep it so that you still have to earn it, you should have to redo the quests (or maybe mission) after so long (like maybe after a week it resets and you have to do it again?). That way, not everyone would have access, because you would have to redo quests (or maybe mission) after so long to keep you access, and not everyone would want to redo something over and over just to be able to go to that area. That way, you don't have the problem of people in pvp unlocking something for the people in pve, when teh pvp people might never go there, and the pve people might never do the thing that is accually needed to unlock that area. You also don't have the problem of people in a single guild/alliance faction farming their buts off and never going to the place they work so hard to keep, while everyone else and their mom gets to go to that place and not have to do anything but give a little gold. With this way, to be able to go to that place you would accually HAVE to do something yourself to go to that place instead of relying on others to get access for them or just paying a little gold.

/not signed

This is because it's the only thing I do in the game. Thats the only thing I find fun in the game other than the fact that I like the stories to the game ^.^. Oh, but I wouldn't mind something like Sorrow's Furance in Nightfall.

/not signed

half the enjoyment of halls in winning favour for your country.

/partially signed

I believe that future chapters shouldnt have this restriction on parts as they are an addition to the restriction of the UW/FoW. The UW/FoW restriction takes place in both Prophecies and Factions and most likely will do in Nightfall. That means that Factions is both restricted by favor and alliances but it should only have the FoW/UW access restricted, if at all. Or if there are places that are blocked in Nightfall then there should be a way to unblock it yourself like by completing the game, rather than having your access decided by someone else.

/signed

i totally agree with the whole favour system...i dont mind it, but FoW/UW should be accessable at all times, for example sometimes i would want to go after helping a buncha guildies and they arent busy in their evening to maybe a run thru FoW/UW to "experience something new" but to get caught in we not having favour is not nice

Elite missions, oh boy, sure ppl should be rewarded for the hard grinding they do to access such cool areas for the game...BUT , what about the everyday people like me and my guildies who once in a blue moon want to go there and give it a try? sure its elite and hard...but i really dont approve of going down there looking for a taxi, hell if i last there for 5 min with henchies i'd be happy...its just not fair for regular players having to find taxies JUST to go there.....i mean, i love my guild, all my best buddies are in it, and im not gonna leave them behind to join a guild part of a elite alliance to hold a town or a guild with heavy grinders....i dont think imma ever try a elite mission....or even get a chance with that...GG

/partialy signed

it can't just be free. then it just becomes another area and there's nothing special about it. here follows my idea:

after one ascends (or equivalant) there is an area off of an out of the way town (somthing like the maguma stande) and in that area you can take a renewable quest (pioneered in factions anyone remember ff??) that will open a closed portal (like we've seen in factions) but add a group of "Portal Guardians" (probably 3 lev 28's or 5 lev 24's) that rush out of the newly opened portal, close it, and defend it (probably in a mini cut-scene). after a group defeats these guardians the portal opens and they can waltz inside!

feel free to comment

/not signed
Restricted areas should be something you have to work for, one way or another. I've expressed my opinions on this matter often enough.

To all those US players complaining EU always has favour, you are WRONG. NA and EU servers actually share favour roughly 50/50, the problem is that NA having favour simply doesn't correspond with the times you normally game. Just like EU having favour doesn't normally coincide with the times that I normally play. Quit complaining.

But, how often does anyone on the three Asian servers get to visit UW/FoW? Korea does have favour once in a while but I've never seen Japan or Taiwan hold Halls.

The way the favour system is implemented, it isn't really about enjoying what you've earned at all. Most people visiting UW/FoW are not the people who fought for it. Most people who play HA are not the ones who visit the areas they unlock. I'm far too lazy to confirm this first-hand (not to mention the flames I'd get if I started asking people) but since other people have said as much, why not?

With the introduction of ferrying, the Elite Missions in Factions are really nothing of the sort. When you get into Urgoz's or The Deep, odds are you didn't have to do anything to get there. And that's good. It is much, much more fun to be able to do things how and when you want.

Favor you cant work to get unless you are in to PvP, has nothing to do with PvE.
Elit missions idea was good but Implementation was teribble(yes like my spelling)


/signed

I agree that the favour system isn't perfect. But what have people been suggesting? A pve map which will basically only encourage cookie cutter builds, and we have enough of that at the moment without adding to it.

Asian countires rarely have favour, true. Japan HAS indeed had favour, not too sure about Taiwan. I won't speculated on how many players they have on their servers, how many want FoW, etc. It isn't helpful.

Perhaps I'm biased. I started playing in ToPK because EU never had favour. And we fought and we fought, and it took us so long to be able to win HoH, and we didn't manage to hold. But it doesn't require you to hold to win favour, it only requires that your district keep winning. Slowly EU teams caught on and would gang up on NA teams when needed, in the HoH battles. The number of times we were called cheats for this tactic was amazing.

The crux of the matter is that EU complained, and the rest of you told us to go win favour, we did that, now you complain that we win it too often. The favour split is more or less proportional to the number of teams that play in HA. How often do Japan/Taiwan/Korea win halls? About the same as the number of times HA players actually play against them. Fewer teams in HA = less chance to win favour. I've never had a problem with this concept.

A lot of pve players say, I want to do what I want, when I want, but UW, FoW wouldn't be the challenge or the fun that they still are today if we had access to them 24-7. Instead cookie cutter builds would be even more evident and no one outside these "uber builds", or even NEW to such team models, would ever be able to get a team.

Look what happened to ToPK pve map. 99% of the teams there are b/p, and now that b/p has been around for so long those who are new to the build simply don't get a chance in most teams. The first sign of "checking" your build with your team and you get kicked.

As a member of the alliance currently holding HzH, I ferry for free NOT because I think all players should have access, but because I think that the players who wish to try the map should have a variety of players to choose from. Nonetheless I am finding more and more that players in elite missions are falling into the same cookie-cutter patterns. Certainly, Anet will be giving open access to these missions at some stage in the future, but I've a feeling that in the future it isn't going to be worth the time of day to join a cookie cutrer team to complete either of these missions.

Yes the system isn't perfect, yes we could do with some more challenging pve areas, but opening UW/FoW is NOT the answer.

The reason you see gimmicky builds in open areas like ToPK, and balanced builds in restricted areas like UW and FoW has little to do with their relative open-ness and more to do with the way they're designed.

Intended or not, ToPK is extremely difficult with a balanced PUG, and a breeze with a B/P build, which is why B/P builds are ubiquitous. Change the way the levels are designed, add different mobs (I think there is a whopping total of around six different monsters in the entire mission), and B/P will disappear. A balanced team will find that the mobs simply rip through their builds. It's next to impossible to form a balanced PUG that has the coordination to complete ToPK. B/P, on the other hand, requires little more than C-Space.

As for FoW/UW, though I haven't played gimmicky builds there before, I get the feeling that a balanced group would simply work better in such environments, due to the variety of enemies and the inflexibility of builds such as B/P, hence there aren't as many gimmicky builds in those areas.

Lol, actually I b/p in FoW. It really is the easiest build I've played there. I've also been a part of a 5 man team, once again, if you know what you are doing there isn't much difficulty involved.

55ing, dual farming in UW, sure it isn't doing the quests, but let's be honest, how many people SERIOUSLY want it free and open to all for the quests?

How did people come up with these builds? Time. They perfected them with TIME. Given time, UW/FoW being open for all 24-7, people WILL come up with a build to do X quest or X number of quests, and that WILL become the standard for 90% of the teams going to either of these places. In all honesty it's bad enough as it is already, and you want to make it worse?

ToPK is NOT a one off, it is the trend. SF, Fire Islands, even many mission areas have all followed exactly the same trend.

If you are not pleased with the fact that Europe seems to have the favor for 23 hours of the 24 day, then maybe you yourself should get down to HA and win the favor for your country.

I think the point is to still have favor and the elite mission in factions.. just nothing in addition to those in Nightfall to which I agree. Instead more interesting sort of elite places like SF would be my personal choice.

/signed (not that it'll make a difference since it's pretty much on it's way.)

/signed

I'd be more interested in an area that can be accessed more easily, but is retardedly hard to complete.

/signed

I think winning halls to get favor just makes PvE players (yes there are plenty of PvE only players) bored with the game. It was an interesting idea, like many ideas in GW are, but it just dosent pan out. Just like the AB line - cool idea, but pretty pointless when it comes down to it.

You B/P in FoW, and yet you say that it's "bad enough already", referring to the amount of gimmick builds present. Are you not contributing to the problem? Contradictions aside, what exactly is the problem with gimmick builds? You can choose to play them, or you can choose to play balanced - it's up to you. There's nothing stopping you from forming your own group with your own build.

On a different note, and this is the main point I wanted to make, it is the design of the various high-end areas which encourage gimmicky builds. If you consider gimmicks a problem, don't blame it on the fact that various areas are open for all, but instead, blame it on the enemies' builds, the terrain of the missions, the mechanics on which the gimmick runs, and any other factor which can lead to gimmicky builds.

it would be pretty silly if favor and elite missions werent restricted, honestly it balnces things out,if u wanna get the good pve areas u gotta do pvp and work for it, it's what makes the game fun, and we'll see what happens in nightfall

I see this often enough. Little Freddie comes along and has just discovered ToA. He wants to try out these "new" realms because he has yet to see them. He gets invited into a team and honestly admits that he has never been there before and promptly gets kicked.
We all know that pugs aren't newbie friendly, but the extent to which I've seen new players being abused in this manner is shocking. Yes, it is an "elite" area, but that doens't give OTHER players the right to play doorman. Sure, you don't want a new person in your team, they might just stuff it up, but the first time I went I ended up on a TS channel with my team explaining what needed to be done. After a rather graphic demonstration of an Aatax taking down a monk in one hit, I certainly got the message.

Let's face the facts, 90% of the people who hover around ToA are there for farming purposes. Farming = gimmick build. I farm. I b/p and I 55. When you enter one of these teams your understanding is that you are there for ectos and shards, period. You don't do a full run, even though you are missing out on some possible ectos/shards from doing so. Why? Well in some cases the gimmick build doesn't cater for it, in others you just want the farming run to be quick.

So 90% of people don't want to do quests. Ok, fair enough, farming is cool. My point is that along comes someone who wants to do quests, they can't go with the guild for whatever reason. They are there to explore, get XP, whatever. There is a team going in advertising to do x quest or x number of quests, but they can't possibly take a mesmer, their gimmick build specifies a certain team and mesmer isn't in that. The problem is that now we have 90% gimmick/farming builds and 10% gimmick/I can't think for myself builds.

ToPK was a poor example because it primarily a farming ground, there are no quests involved. However places like SF, the highend missions in the Ring of Fire, etc have all gone the SAME way. If you are there for farming you use gimmick build X, if you are there for questing/missions, you use gimmick buid Y. Players have had plenty of time and zero restrictions in order to create the "Y" build and so now no one will take anything else. Sometimes you can take henchie but sometimes you can't. So what on earth does that little mesmer/assassin/ritualist do? Well they can't do too much now can they? They don't fit into build "Y" so they just have to wait and wait and wait and hope that their guild and friends will have some free time the next time they are online.

PvE is generally a static environment. We know we are going to face the same foes in the same areas over and over again. This doesn't change just because it is a high level area. Yes, PvE is MADE for gimmick builds, I don't dispute that fact. But what do people need in order to perfect gimmick builds? Time, practice, patience. Why is it that a gimmick build has yet to be found for clearing out the whole of UW? TIME. We can't just keep practising until we get it perfect, favour prevents that.

Restrictions give players something to strive for. Remove those restrictions and two things will happen:
1) the market will be flooded with ecto and shards because now ALL districts can farm at the same time.
2) gimmick builds will exist for doing quests in both areas and if you don't fit into either of those builds you can kiss your FoW armour goodbye because it will be a bun fight to get a team (no one wants to join if you aren't running THE build, and you can't join because your profession isn't needed) to get to the Forge Master.
I also imagine that many districts will be depopulated as the centre of civilisation moves to ToA and no one bothers with quests and missions any more.

You say restriction was always a problem, but I find it ironic that none of you actually started complaining (telling others who were doing so to "DEAL") until your region no longer held favour 9 times out of 10.
I find it interesting that Uw/FoW/elite missions are considered "high level" areas, while many areas with max. enemies are not. Why? We've not had enough access to perfect team builds to conquer the area successfully every single time.

Where do you find enemies with higer lvl's than UW, Fow or "elit" missions?
A Boss thats lvl28 surrounde by lvl 14-20 can't be compared to the whole mob being lvl 24 or lvl 28. Thats high lvl areas.