IWAY - a solution to a problem

IWAY has been around for so long I cant remmember a time when it wasn't around.
It's a build that is simple to use and is guaranteed to earn you a few fame points from the inexperienced groups at the start (and sometimes from the experienced).
players resort to IWAY for a few reasons:
1. the strong teams require a rank 3 or more to enter, and for players only beggining their HoH experience, IWAY is the only place to turn.
2. IWAY is hassle free and not complicated. thre is no need for TS/Vent.
3. 2/3 teams that one sees forming are IWAY (the rest being Rspike or necro spike or some FotM). To avoid hours of searching for a suitable team, a player might just prefer to enter an IWAY team...

these are the main reasons (not counting the fact that IWAY is fun for some people).

my suggestion is simple, and will probably eliminate a large amount of IWAY teams (if not them all).
I dont want skills to be nerfed and i don't want a complete HoH make-over.

because most players IWAY for quick and easy fame, and teams look for high amounts of fame from players, lets go a step backwards and make teams look for something else in players. lets keep fame as it is, but make it less valuable.

lets make a second fame system, that IWAY players wil have a hard time gaining. lets make a second fame system, when you only gain "new fame" by winning at the actual hall of heroes. a second win in a row gets you two fame and so on...

IWAY rarely gets to the HoH without jumping, and when they do, it's because they are not average noobs. still, they don't stay there for long.

with this new fame system, players will be able to evaluate others through both amount of time invested in HA (fame), and in actual skill (new fame).
a rank 9 player with no new fame will still have an easy time getting into groups, but his goal won't be getting more fame, it will be reaching rank 1 in the new fame system.

in another side, teams won't be able to look for extremely high new rank players, since not that many are able to consistantly win in the HoH (i'm rank 3 and have yet to win the HoH, and have only been able to reach it a few times).

I could go on, but I think i'm starting to repeat myself, so i'll finish by saying that this idea doesn't hurt players who have invested themselves into playing HA (be it iWAY or anything else). It both helps players evaluate each other better, and will eliminate the IWAY build almost completely!

I hope you agree with me. if you do, please post here, and ANET might actually see it and be inspired to help repair the HoH.

What in gods name are you on about? Leave the sodding fame system alone. If IWAY lose so much (hey maybe ANet will eventually pull there finger out and sort OoA out), then they have no reason to play it.

One fame system to rule them all, blah blah and in the darkness bind them.

The only problem i have with the current 1 is how we jumped to Scarred Earth and recieved 1 fame for beating 2 teams over 10-15minutes.

Please no more IWAY threads. Close it please, I'm tired of seeing threads like this eventually turn into a flame war. IE: Famous Guilds And People In HA turned into an IWAY flame at the end :/

IWAY isn't losing, it's a strong build against the teams that are inexperienced, and it rarely reaches the HoH.
i think you can agree with me on that.
IWAY will still be here even after skill changes are made, since it will still be strong enough to gain some fame before dying.

if we put this second fame system, IWAY won't be able to get the new fame. there will be less of an incentive to play IWAY and there will be less IWAY.

the current fame system shouldn't be left alone, since it doesn't show a player's skill, but how long he has been playing iWAY.

this isnt an IWAY rant, its a suggestion.
if you already had the time to sit down and reply to the thread, at least say what you think of the idea...

Iway wins, Iway loses, just more Iways than any other build. If only HOH wins for fame, I would think that would kill the interest in PVP players hoping to get their tiger soon only to find out about a only HOH win for fame.

you people arent reading the full post.
the fame system stays the same, but there is another fame system to go along with it.
you gain fame normally, through wins, but you only gain "new fame" from HoH wins.

you'll still have your tiger, but you'll also be aiming at getting the new deer...

Off topic a little I'm sure I might get flamed for it but, hey pfft. I've been wondering for some time now, who actually came up with the IWAY build originally? I'm sure some people hate that person(s) but you gotta respect them for creating perhaps the most used build in GW history? lol

As for the idea, it might work but I doubt very much that it would eradicate IWAY at all. It's just another title to aim for such as the many new(ish) titles you can gain from PvE and arenas.

if teams started looking for new fame instead of the old fame, IWAY won't be useful for fame farming...
people will use it less...

I think IWAY should be left alone, but I do have a problem with people thinking Rank = your skill or your experience. (I'm not even sure this is quite on topic, but this thread reminded me of it.) Just because you have Rank 3, doesn't mean you earned it by yourself. People all the time show off their Rank to get into groups, when chances are, they just happen to be in a group(s) which won a lot, and they played a simple Warrior build or ran some kind of Warder build. I know some people actually earned it, and other don't have rank because they are new. It's when people are rejected froma group (namely me) because I don't have enough Rank? Oh no, I can't make a tiger glow... I am able to run just about ANYthing people want me too. 1. it's not very hard anyways, 2. I have just about 75% or more of EVERY skill, upgrade and Rune unlocked.

Lose fame for losses.

Creating another ranking system based on winning Halls wouldn't be a good idea. The average Joe player would probably have a harder time acquiring fame for the new ranks, while established guilds that frequently do Halls ([CC], [LuNa] etc) wouldn't.

What HA really needs a ELO system.

I think adding another tier of fame is getting a bit much. The system is already obtuse as it is. As a non-PvPer, I couldn't tell you what the difference between Rank and Fame is. Now we'll have Rank, Fame, and New Fame. That's just getting silly. If we're going to have all those ambiguous words mean something, why not just call the whole thing "Rank" and make a separate rank for each arena; so you have RA Rank and HA Rank and Guild Rank, etc.

If all you want to do is reduce the use of IWAY, just nerf the damn thing so it doesn't affect pets. Seems kind of silly that a warrior would get so passionate about avenging their friend's animal which they just picked up from the wilderness yesterday.

IWAY isnt a problem anymore, its been diluted so heavily.

the problem is now people saying how powerful IWAY is while completely ignoring much more powerful builds such as eoebomb/smiteball/dual smite/starburst-spike

This is a stupid idea because it will only reward holding builds, and still won't be an indication of a player's skill. The fame system is fine how it is, leave it alone and stop complaining.


Edge bombs are "powerful?" I'm sorry but if you don't see that one coming you deserve to lose.

it will make builds concentrate not on purely killing the other team, but players will think of builds that can reach and hold the HoH.
i think holding builds should be more common than IWAY, because those builds are actually designed to win HA, while IWAY is designed to kill a couple of teams before reaching a good one.

Yeah, so instead of running IWAY everyone will just run blood spike. I fail to see how that's any different really - you're trading one gimmicky build for another. IWAY isn't even really a problem, rank was meaningless well before IWAY was around. You can't have a point-based system reflect player skill unless points are deducted for losses.

Not to mention that your "new rank" system just creates another hurdle for players looking to get into HA. Your suggestion is a short sighted and poorly thought out, sorry.

This unfortunately limit fame to those already established guilds and people(as i said already) who regularly hold Halls. For those who join pugs of any kind they will have a harder time gaining any fame with that new "rank tier"

Remember ANet stresses balance and unfortunately this idea would cause an unbalance in your "New rank" system

Btw Lyra what's this ELO system you speak of? When I see ELO I think Electric Light Orchestra lol(it's a band if you don't know)

I think the OP has been attacked a bit harshly for his idea. While I disagree that IWAY really needs to be gotten rid of, I sympathize with the idea that HA needs a different system that would show true skill. I've always had a feeling that HA didn't really go the way the creators intended and Mortalis's idea is an original fix. Its not perfect, but it would seem to at least be a bit better than what we have right now.

no the second fame system will mean even less then first one.

:

When you value the player ability on HA a consistent part of of that are based on the map BEFORE HoH.
When i press "Enter in mission" i want my team to be good on all maps of HA not only on last.

Well, to get to the Hall of Heroes people would have to get through the previous maps so they would need to be good at those too.

i dont agree with this, this isnt just against iway, but an entire idea of playing...this will encourage stupid holding builds like old school spirit spam...THAT was an over-powered build...iway isnt over powered, thats why it wasnt nerfed, take a look at gvg...run a blind bot in ur build, gg iway

people in ha are just unwilling to believe they have to use builds that cover all their bases...if we have a blind bot that means we have 1 less player against a grp with no wars

well people get it to work in gvg, learn ways to do it in ha

well, i thought my idea was the way to go when it comes to kiling iway, and i still think it would have eradicated iway.
having players run holding builds should be the correct idea IMO, since those builds actually focus on winning halls and trying to keep it (maybe a symbiosis/fertile nerf is overdue, but that's off topic).

if nnobody agrees with me i gues there's no real point of defending my idea, since there is no way it will be implemented...

Its stupid to force players to play only a certain type of build. I like the way fame system is right now. But I wouldnt mind having a new title specially for people winning consecutively in HoH and holding it, without affecting in any way the current fame and rank system, just a plain title Like Hall of Heroes Conqueror(1).

Its stupid to force players to play only a certain type of build. I like the way fame system is right now. But I wouldnt mind having a new title specially for people winning consecutively in HoH and holding it, without affecting in any way the current fame and rank system, just a plain title Like Hall of Heroes Conqueror(1).

Cainuth's idea appears to be a simple and pleasing compromise. I'd really prefer this over Mortalis's idea becuause of how easy it would be to implement it.

Leave fame alone.. It is hard enough for new players to get fame, as it is.

1: Iway wins halls frequently a la edge bomb
2: It is too late to reset the fame system. Arenanet lost their minds after the spirit spam nerf. Basically, random people have 10K-20K fame more than you when they shouldn't have. The highest rank anyone would have after the Spirit nerf is probably 10, maybe 11.
3: If you only get fame for winning halls, then noobs would never get rank ups.

If you want a fame system that matters, first you need a game that is balanced.

After arenanet does that in a month (when the next update is), you need to wipe fame. (which would make many players stop playing.)

After you do that, you need a fame system that rewards skill, not farming ability. The more you play as a certain class primary, the more fame you would get as that class. For example, if you get 180 fame all on your monk, you would be a rank 3 monk and a rank 0 everything else.

But like i said, it is too late to reset fame. Arenanet had their chance to make this game fair after the spirit nerf, but now it's waaaaaayyy to late.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in two-player games such as chess and Go. It is also used as a rating system for competitive multi-player play in a number of computer games.

Like the GvG ladder

If fame behaved more like the ladder, there would be less fame farmers. More skilled competitors.

Fame farmers would just fall to the bottom.

very few team make a full run , many jump

well, least it will get rid of a few fame farming services who rely 100% on iway

Or they could balance Order of Apostasy so other teams have some sort of defense against IWAY except wards.

maybe not a new fame system for halls but we should at least get a title. 1 point for each hall win.

iway is a response to various in game issues - as you clearly outline, time to set up, fame win, simplicity of build - it can be beaten and is not as effective for hoh as say a good monk build

there is no need for two tier fame that would be confusing - perhaps something that shows you reached hoh might be better - people might then make the effort to try other builds - but currently why bother when an average group will collapse against iway...

I am not a fan of iway but I understand its creation and it has its place just like touch rangers - put something tangible other than fame thst rewards the effort of creating a non iway team and more people might try something new...

2 fame systems - /not signed, why it would just be confusing?

Apostasy is already balanced, it costs 25 energy, requires a rather large sacrifice per enchatment removed and still requires a hit to go through Aegis/Guardian to remove it. Factions introduced a lot of enchantment hate, which was a good thing in my opinion seeing how most pre-Factions builds were completely reliant on enchantments. Apostasy is just a counter to enchantments, deal with it an learn to be less reliant of them.