In certain areas of the game, certain farming groups have certain jobs that certain people do to farm there...
Lets take BP Group for example, in PvE Tombs...
I"ve been having more and more trouble with this lately...It's fine that you are new or something, but learn what a group is and what they expect form you before you blindly go in without telling them.
Now. A BP group is:
5 R/Mos that use Barrage, Bring Pets, and Carry Rebirth
2 necros, 1 Orders, 1 MM.
1 Healing Monk.
If you are a Ranger...I don't care if your r/w, r/e, etcetc "pwns face" - a BP ranger is /mo for Rebirth...theres a REASON they carry rebirth. Also don't forgot to bring your Pet...(I've seen rangers that didn't know to bring a pet).
Make sure before you go in that one Necro is an Orders and one is an MM..I've went in TOO MANY TIMES where both were the same, or One necro didnt know what type of necro he was supposed to be, so came in as something like SS/SV.....
The Monk...this is usually the group stopper. YOU ARE A HEALING MONK. Orison..WoH..Heal Other..w/e. PLEASE leave you "pwnage" Healing Breeze type spells at home, and don't even argue that you want to be a Prot Monk...ain't happening. Also...don't bring a rez...(this one happens alot). You are wasting a slot, theres already SIX hard rezes in the group, and every sec you sit there trying to rebirth someone - more are dying. If you GOTTA bring a rez because you'll have a heartattack if you dont...DONT USE IT...I better not see you trying to rez ANYONE unless their are no rangers alive..TOo many times the group died because a monk decided to rebirth someone themselves (without focus swapping none the less).
I don't have problems with non-BP groups there...But if you aren't going to be one of the above things...Please tell the group..so they can kick you and you can find a non-BP group.
Same goes for the special SF farming groups..."5 Man Oro Farm" doesn't mean you can self invite as anything.
/vent >_>
EDIT: fixed it to 5 rangers, someone almost had a heartattack because I accidently hit "6" in the original post.
Learn what a Group is
Former Ruling
milias
It's Friday night, chill out 
Most PUG's can't really follow directions, but I actually find Tombs groups to be better, b/c they're a one-trick pony, and it's harder to mess things up.
Most PUG's can't really follow directions, but I actually find Tombs groups to be better, b/c they're a one-trick pony, and it's harder to mess things up.
dndhatcher
Someone had a bad experience in Tombs today...
Dr Strangelove
The easy solution would be talking to your group beforehand. Oftentimes the new people are reluctant to ask as they know they'll be booted for someone more experienced if the group leader finds out. be open with your group, say clearly what you want if you want specific builds, and do your best not to exclude new blood. We don't want PvE turning into a HA style rank fest, now do we?
TheMadKingGeorge
argh another angry nub
Former Ruling
I have a bad experience in Tombs EVERY day -_- It gets worse and worse.
Dr Strangelove - We do go over it. It ragequit ANY group right off that doesnt: Check before hand about necros being Orders or MM, Doesnt check for spirits on the rangers (who is carrying what), or anyone that just rushes in before people say ready.
This idoesn't weed everyone out though. There are people that say pretend to be something, then when you get in they just use whatever they want. I've had that happen 4 groups in a row before. The necros were "supposedly" setup one as orders and one as MM, then when we get in the MM is actually an SS...so good game. This is mostly a monk thing though...Some Monks are GLUED to being prot, so they'll invite when you say Healing monk needed, and when you get in they start spamming Prot Spirit and crap..
EDIT: Quote:
Dr Strangelove - We do go over it. It ragequit ANY group right off that doesnt: Check before hand about necros being Orders or MM, Doesnt check for spirits on the rangers (who is carrying what), or anyone that just rushes in before people say ready.
This idoesn't weed everyone out though. There are people that say pretend to be something, then when you get in they just use whatever they want. I've had that happen 4 groups in a row before. The necros were "supposedly" setup one as orders and one as MM, then when we get in the MM is actually an SS...so good game. This is mostly a monk thing though...Some Monks are GLUED to being prot, so they'll invite when you say Healing monk needed, and when you get in they start spamming Prot Spirit and crap..
EDIT: Quote:
jaymat
6 rangers
2 necros
1monk
now if i use my awesome mathematical powers im almost positive that figures adds up to 9 players in a grp. did some make a mistake in his rant?
2 necros
1monk
now if i use my awesome mathematical powers im almost positive that figures adds up to 9 players in a grp. did some make a mistake in his rant?
TheMadKingGeorge
lmfao cani say pwnage flame
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
I have a bad experience in Tombs EVERY day -_- It gets worse and worse.
Dr Strangelove - We do go over it. It ragequit ANY group right off that doesnt: Check before hand about necros being Orders or MM, Doesnt check for spirits on the rangers (who is carrying what), or anyone that just rushes in before people say ready. Yar, in that case it's just people being stubborn asses who think they know better than everyone else. My recent favorite was a 55 in training on a droks run with me who told the runner he knew a better route from rankor to droks. (He suggested running throught he mobs of giants and then through the troll cave). Most likely, people don't know any better than the standard cookie cutter builds, and if they think they do, they should advertise as such.
Dr Strangelove - We do go over it. It ragequit ANY group right off that doesnt: Check before hand about necros being Orders or MM, Doesnt check for spirits on the rangers (who is carrying what), or anyone that just rushes in before people say ready. Yar, in that case it's just people being stubborn asses who think they know better than everyone else. My recent favorite was a 55 in training on a droks run with me who told the runner he knew a better route from rankor to droks. (He suggested running throught he mobs of giants and then through the troll cave). Most likely, people don't know any better than the standard cookie cutter builds, and if they think they do, they should advertise as such.
Xenrath
Well, since apparently millions of copies of GW were sold - let's say there are maybe a few hundred thousand active players from that... let's also say most of them probably don't look at forums, including this one. It's probably worth bearing that in mind rather than expecting people to know about builds and whatever. Much less disappointment that way
I'm not telling you to stop posting or get over it etc. in fact I'd encourage the opposite and disregard the people trying to stop any remotely "it's not all rainbows and presents falling from the sky in GW" posts. Just it might be more helpful to think of things that way. If you encounter people who have ideas on builds etc. great but probably better not to be expecting it in random groups.
I'm not telling you to stop posting or get over it etc. in fact I'd encourage the opposite and disregard the people trying to stop any remotely "it's not all rainbows and presents falling from the sky in GW" posts. Just it might be more helpful to think of things that way. If you encounter people who have ideas on builds etc. great but probably better not to be expecting it in random groups.
Former Ruling
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymat
6 rangers
2 necros
1monk
now if i use my awesome mathematical powers im almost positive that figures adds up to 9 players in a grp. did some make a mistake in his rant? Typo. 6 happens to be very close to 5, and my hands happen to be quite large thus I hit the wrong keys alot.
BTW, Rule One: Don't point out other's typos unless you are sure your own post doesn't have typos...
Xenrath - I don't expect them to magically see this thread and know what to bring...But INGAME new or not you shouldn't join a group and pretend to be something and not know what you are doing. ASK the people in the group "whats a good BP ranger bar" or something..Don't just assume you bringing trash stuff is going to be ok.
2 necros
1monk
now if i use my awesome mathematical powers im almost positive that figures adds up to 9 players in a grp. did some make a mistake in his rant? Typo. 6 happens to be very close to 5, and my hands happen to be quite large thus I hit the wrong keys alot.
BTW, Rule One: Don't point out other's typos unless you are sure your own post doesn't have typos...
Xenrath - I don't expect them to magically see this thread and know what to bring...But INGAME new or not you shouldn't join a group and pretend to be something and not know what you are doing. ASK the people in the group "whats a good BP ranger bar" or something..Don't just assume you bringing trash stuff is going to be ok.
vaxmor
this thread does not deliver.
Vahn Roi
What kind of monk tries to use Rebirth in the middle of a fight at all? That's just moronic...
Hockster
Farming Tombs? Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! And you complain about noobs? Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
You just made my night.
You just made my night.
.neuronster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahn Roi
What kind of monk tries to use Rebirth in the middle of a fight at all? That's just moronic...
Probably a monk who is being pressured by his/her n00b group members. I've been in groups like that. The freaking n00bs will target themselves and spam the team chat with, "I'm dead!" Or they'll be like, "omg...wtf? rez....plz....someone rez meeeee." Then a second later, "ne1 got rez? omg rez me." >_< It drives you so insane you can't help but Rebirth during a fight. >_< UGH! /endrant
Anyway, once n00bs start getting like that, I turn team chat off.
Anyway, once n00bs start getting like that, I turn team chat off.
Paperfly
Ugh, definitely not grouping with Former Ruling if he's in charge. I'm fine with insisting on optimised builds, but yours aren't.
Quote:
If you are a Ranger...I don't care if your r/w, r/e, etcetc "pwns face" - a BP ranger is /mo for Rebirth...theres a REASON they carry rebirth.
Quote:
If a ranger is carrying Ward Against Melee or Recuperation I'm perfectly fine with them taking that different secondary - both of the above skills can contribute more to the group than Rebirth's off-chance at saving a team from a wipe.
A couple of team members carrying Res Sigs is actually helpful, as it means you can effectively combat-res the monk or MM. Please, please don't Rebirth me if there's a million Grasps roaming the area!
Finally, the difference taking Rebirth makes is sufficiently small that I don't feel the need to force people to change secondaries for their farming runs.
...Which leads me to my second point:
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Agreed, a monk should never res in combat. Heck, no-one should Rebirth in combat!
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PLEASE leave you "pwnage" Healing Breeze type spells at home
You might want to explain yourself a little further. I agree that Breeze is sub-par, but I don't understand (a) why the sarcastic "pwnage" is relevant, and (b) why you think we can somehow derive an entire category from this disjointed half-sentence. If your monk is Prophecies-only and is already using two heal-other-only spells (Word of Healing and Dwayna's Kiss, say), then Breeze isn't actually that bad a choice for a self-heal/backlines heal - it lets you anticipate damage, it's handy when you're kiting a Grasp, and you can use it to hint to the MM that he should Blood of the Master more aggressively! If you have Factions and can run Ethereal Light, though, then certainly there's no point running Breeze. Incidentally, I'm suprised you're not insisting on Succor on the Orders necro. Isn't that the latest thing?  ...Don't like it myself, as Monk or as Orders. The monk is better off running some energy management of his own, and the Orders is actually often under more strain than people give them credit for and is genuinely hurt by the maintained enchant. Plus maintaining enchantments in Tombs is asking for some mesmer attention at the best of times... (For the record, I play Monk and Orders through Tombs - I'm very good at both, with dozens of successful runs to my credit. I've carried groups where we've had 4+ ragequitters to a successful finish, and I've led mobs of first-timers through without incident. And I play not-100%-standard builds because mine usually work better with the uncertainties of a pickup group) Mo/N: {e} Offering of Blood Orison of Healing Dwayna's Kiss Ethereal Light Heal Party Mend Ailment Smite Hex Rebirth N/Rt {e} Order of the Vampire Order of Pain Blood Ritual Blood Renewal Vampiric Gaze Recuperation Mend Body and Soul Flesh of My Flesh I'm willing to defend the above builds against all comers.
Minus Sign
Quote:
Originally Posted by .neuronster.
you can't help but Rebirth during a fight
Yes you can. And anyone nubbish enough to beg and whine in team and all chat during combat...you may want to consider when it comes time to rez if they are worth carrying through. There was a time in UW when it was all but impossible to make it through with a full group. For B/P, the "gotta haves" are the 2 necros and the monk, and they shouldn't gain much agro anyway. For the ranger who thought B in B/P stood for Bunny thumper (don't laugh; been there and the group leader was still willing to let him run after we saw the hammer) let the little idiot stay dead. You can't heal stupid so don't try.
Don Zardeone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenrath
Well, since apparently millions of copies of GW were sold - let's say there are maybe a few hundred thousand active players from that... let's also say most of them probably don't look at forums, including this one. It's probably worth bearing that in mind rather than expecting people to know about builds and whatever. Much less disapp...
Before factions I kept track of the clueless people in pugs in areas where they should at least have BASIC knowledge (as in, a warrior doesn't use 25energy ele firespells in hells precipice, a monk with ONLY heal party on his bar is not enough...). I don't remember the exact numbers but of 300-400 people I looked at, 90% of them had no clue.
I redid the entire thing a few weeks back but got bored after my 1th or so pug and the number was terrifying, 95-99% of the players were absolutely clueless. I'm talking about heal area on shiro, smiting warriors in urgoz (5+monkskills on bar), the infamous frenzy-heal sig on W/* and */W, MMs with level 20- flesh golems.... That's right, pugs are 95% disaster...in factions... Prophecies? What's that X.x? edit: above poster: "You can't heal stupid so don't try" so funny =D
.neuronster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minus Sign
Yes you can. And anyone nubbish enough to beg and whine in team and all chat during combat...you may want to consider when it comes time to rez if they are worth carrying through.
Indeed. I concur. I am just too nice....even though I really shouldn't be. Although, lately, I have been leaving groups if they are really n00bish and ignorant. I am growing more and more tired of n00bs each day.
Quozz
No wonder the ops groups have so many problems. Nobody else would want to play with someone with such a bad attitude. Your post would have been relevant and helpful if you had taken the role of "patient teacher" and calmly explained your builds and strategies. Unfortunately, no one is going to pay any mind to your post because of the unconstructive way it is written.
Kali Magdalene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahn Roi
What kind of monk tries to use Rebirth in the middle of a fight at all? That's just moronic...
The inexperienced monk who uses it the first time in a fight, and then never touches it again.
Not that I ever did this... ...in Borlis Pass... ...at like 12th level... ahem.
Master Fuhon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
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Common balanced scenario: GLF tank, instead we get "high damage" warriors who need babying and blind/cripple removal. I make suggestions "Take a look at that exciting line of Tactics skills and pick a few defensive stances" and "if you must use Heal Sig always do so in a stance if under attack". Only problems I've ever had was a W/Me taking Elemental Resistance instead of Mantra of Flame which dropped his defenses against grasps. I always tell people to take the skills they know how to use, or suggest something easy to use, but some Frenzy under focus fire anyway. There are also cases of amusing warriors using Gladiator's Defense as they rush into battle against casters.
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I am rather curious to whatever it is about tombs that makes Rebirth so much better then Flesh of my Flesh that you'd have someone change secondaries for it?|
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
Some Monks are GLUED to being prot, so they'll invite when you say Healing monk needed, and when you get in they start spamming Prot Spirit and crap..
Lastly, Boon Protect can work in PvE tombs with or without the cover enchants from orders (done it in balanced with no cover enchants, maybe a gift of health/dwaynas kiss boon in B/P). I've seen an elementalist using Armor of the Earth be a very good puller when aided by protection spells. But your comments in particular are about Protective Spirit, which in my mind is the "God of PvE tombs PUG skill".
PS doesn't sit on you all of the time so it can be shattered, but it saves the life of any saccing MM who gets a train of grasps on him and works wonders on pets/people with high DP who die in 2 hits when someone must become a tank to hold aggro. Any lone healing monk should find room for this skill on his bar in high level areas at almost any cost because of the number of teams it saves by making anyone a tank. A healing monk is casting limited by 1 sec spells, which a protection monk is not. In bad tombs groups, 3 people getting hit at the same time was very common when I was monking. WoH only monks were commenting that there was no way that such groups could have survived, despite the fact that some were pretty good monks. I carry Rebirth on a PvE monk in untimed missions; timed ones with bosses I bring a sig. Always call a rez, even if it doesn't stop team members from rushing in. The worst team members are the ones who think there is only one way to do something. The one-way-of-doing-things B/P is what drives most of the better players away. We don't take orders from fools. It's unfortunate that the fools are too impatient to listen to some of the more knowledgeable players anyway.
Amy Awien
Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
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Besides, a /Rt (with Restoration) could bring Recuperation or some other ritual, it's not like all 5 need to bring FW and Winnowing.
Quote:
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Also don't forgot to bring your Pet...(I've seen rangers that didn't know to bring a pet).
Must have been one of those Factions rangers, tyrian rangers know how to handle animal companions
Ensign
There is a reason why all five rangers are R/Mo with Rebirth. The reason is because most players are terrible at Guild Wars. They do not know how to res people during combat, and generally approach the game with a plan of 'if anyone dies, wipe and try again'. It is funny as long as you are not playing with those people.
If your team is actually good, *none* of the rangers would be /monk, or carry Rebirth. The only copy of Rebirth in the build should be on the Order necro, who has to be a drooling moron to not live through a wipe. All of the rangers should have resurrection signets, and know how to keep a team from wiping by using them. None of them should be monk secondary. No monk secondaries allows the monk to use powerful enchantments on the rangers and otherwise be much more effective, instead of being confined to being a terrible reactive heal spammer. I don't really understand why you're so mad about the monk taking a hard res. You're already stuck in the mentality of 'no combat ressing', hell you probably have seven rebirths already in this awesome group. Why would the 8th hurt? Also, by making all of the rangers /monk you've put a huge crunch on the skills a monk can actually use. What do you want on his bar, yet another direct heal that he cannot possibly ever use because of how fast all his other direct heals recharge? People copy builds because they were effective for someone else, without any understanding of *why* those builds were effective. They inject their own awful assumptions into the builds usually and make them worse in the process. I can't blame people at all for not wanting to get involved in these shitfests. What is worse than being called a noob by an idiot who doesn't even understand his own build? Peace, -CxE NoHomework
This type of thing is exactly why PvE produces newbs. Groups pressure them into just being a part of a template without teaching them the functions of every role. Like ensign said, if you use R/(not monk) then powerful skills like prot spirit, reversal, and seed become a possibility in tombs PvE. 5 copies of rebirth on rangers is a waste, and if PvE created smart guild wars players the B/P equation would have been fixed long ago.
milias
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHomework
This type of thing is exactly why PvE produces newbs. Groups pressure them into just being a part of a template without teaching them the functions of every role. Like ensign said, if you use R/(not monk) then powerful skills like prot spirit, reversal, and seed become a possibility in tombs PvE. 5 copies of rebirth on rangers is a waste, and if PvE created smart guild wars players the B/P equation would have been fixed long ago.
Well, the thing is, by the time a player gets to PvE Tombs, he/she should've already learned the essentials of PvE play in Guild Wars, if he/she didn't get run or something like that. Tombs groups are farming groups, they're usually in it for the greens, ectos, or whatever. I don't think it's realistic to ask them to change to a less efficient build, just to teach someone how to play the game, which he/she should already know by that point in the game.
Paperfly
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I don't think it's realistic to ask them to change to a less efficient build, just to teach someone how to play the game, which he/she should already know by that point in the game.
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...Er, you just missed the point of the argument entirely. Said point being that the OP's (and others') B/P build is not the most efficient, but that no further moves are being made to improve it because people are stuck in their mentality. An irrational fear of wipes, in this case.
).
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There is a reason why all five rangers are R/Mo with Rebirth. The reason is because most players are terrible at Guild Wars. They do not know how to res people during combat, and generally approach the game with a plan of 'if anyone dies, wipe and try again'. It is funny as long as you are not playing with those people. If your team is actually good, *none* of the rangers would be /monk, or carry Rebirth. The only copy of Rebirth in the build should be on the Order necro, who has to be a drooling moron to not live through a wipe. All of the rangers should have resurrection signets, and know how to keep a team from wiping by using them. None of them should be monk secondary. No monk secondaries allows the monk to use powerful enchantments on the rangers and otherwise be much more effective, instead of being confined to being a terrible reactive heal spammer. I don't really understand why you're so mad about the monk taking a hard res. You're already stuck in the mentality of 'no combat ressing', hell you probably have seven rebirths already in this awesome group. Why would the 8th hurt? Also, by making all of the rangers /monk you've put a huge crunch on the skills a monk can actually use. What do you want on his bar, yet another direct heal that he cannot possibly ever use because of how fast all his other direct heals recharge? People copy builds because they were effective for someone else, without any understanding of *why* those builds were effective. They inject their own awful assumptions into the builds usually and make them worse in the process. I can't blame people at all for not wanting to get involved in these shitfests. What is worse than being called a noob by an idiot who doesn't even understand his own build? Peace, -CxE Owned, lol. |