New Official Premades

They tried to implement popular builds before but failed due to lack of input from the real players.

As mentioned, there are a few builds in there that are not suited for RA/TA, for example the necro. Well of Profane? No self heal? If you wanna suicide, at least bring Death Nova!

As for the elementalist, well I'd rather have Heal Other in there than Party.

IDK, it just feels like half of these are GvG builds and are not true to the 4vs4 format that people will be using them for.

I second that.

Premades are for casual players and starters, for Random and Team Arenas. They are good builds - but for another environment. Please post some more RA/TA builds! No GvG or HA/Tombs builds.


You need not post the uber GvG build, a solid cookie cutter might not be fancy but it would be a much more useful template.

Nice premades, some cool ideas there , hopefully they'll push the standard of RA up, and help new players learn fairly common pvp builds.

Too bad there's no spell slasher :P

IMHO its wrong to think that RA is "starter PvP". I want my friends to play GvG, scrub GvG though it may be. Effective premades means that this can be done quickly and easily. I don't know where the preconception that premades are for 4v4 comes from, but I disagree with it.

Nevertheless, these builds would be very effective in RA. I don't see where the complaints are coming from.

The frenzy warrior is a very good build to use, as most high level GvG teams do use one or more of them in a build.

The crip shot ranger is a very good flag runner, again a few top GvG teams use them and a crip shot ranger owns on the frozen isle guild hall but the ranger is something you need to know how to use to know how to play, you can't just crip everyone in sight, you have to know who and when to crip, as well as who and when to interupt.

for the e-surge mes, i would have liked to see rez chant over ressurect, just for the added health you get from rez chant.

As far as i can tell(from playing in top 100 guilds before)most of the builds posted by EW are for medium to good players which since it was EW who got to post them i didn't expect to see any builds that just anyone can play. I think that there are plenty of options out there for new players and these new builds will give the more advanced players something to think about.

you have to figure that if these builds are for more advanced teams(or players)then you know what you might run into in a high level gvg, so you have time to look them over, and maybe come up with a very good counter attack incase you ever find yourself up against it in GvG.

all in all, nice work EW. i look forward to seeing the premades come to life even tho myself and most of the people i know already have a PvP toon with the skills you've listed.

I don't think this is always the case, but there are definately some builds out there that are less than optimal for their uses unless you tweak them a bit.

I run the Fang of Meladaru from time to time, but I don't see why they present the build with only one defensive stance. The deep wound from Twisting Fangs is nice, but considering how much damage the build does without it along with the fact that the extra bleeding is useless, I find Lightning Reflexes to come more in handy for when you're toe to toe with an enemy for the defense and increased attack rate.

how come the outputs broken into code in ie and firefox?

can some one post these in a readable format pleaz...


also on the topic of frenzy its by far the best attack speed buff in 99.9% of all warriors for PvP situations, because its always available and its negative effects can be removed by using a cancle stance like rush or sprint. Its so much better than any other attack speed buff that, it is the only good attack speed buff, and u need to have one in pvp, so you need frenzy.

p.s. where is it written that pre-mades are for random arena? They are PvP only, not random arena only. I know what most of these new premades are and im sure that every one of them is better for ra, ta, gvg and ha then the original premades were, hands down better.

Good lord no............

I didn't want the most overused builds in the game becoming PREmades........

Originality is for newbs ;_;

Edit: BTW, to those thinking Frenzy is uber in PvP, Spear of Light and Smite can utterly WRECK you when using it. It's around 200dmg if hit right.

A wise man once said; "If you want to be sure you are running something original, run something sub-par". EW gave us good premades, end of discussion.

And who the hell seriously uses Spear of Light OR Smite? T_T

This is actually a good guideline for people to use when deciding to play pvp or pve, if u ever see spear of light in pvp, and u lose to the people using it you need to stop playing pvp forever.

your statement if serious, makes me laugh. Frenzy is a must have skill, there is no other good choice for a warrior in pvp.

AoE = Smite
Spear of Light = Smite Ball

You lot need to PvP/GvG more

Frenzy is used for SPIKING. Yes, Warriors CAN SPIKE. Newsflash! You use Frenzy, then you unload all your offensive skills.

True, if you die using frenzy, you arent a very good warrior, but you charge, then spike using frenzy, and if you get spiked, theres nothing you can do about it.

Also, if you think warriors arent targeted in GvG, you are on crack.

Overextended = OWNAGE!

Oh and T Bot, if we dont use frenzy to spike, what are we gonna use, Tiger Stance? :P

Even the overused builds were original at some point, did that make them sub-par? :P

Spear of Light and Smite could become quite popular once the newb zerg rush on the Shock War kicks in.

FYI - shock axe wars, with fenzy have been popular for about a year.

by Smite do you mean the actual skill smite? or smite in general, like zealots, balths whatever... if you mean the skill...

What sort of top.... er... top 500 guild _doesn't_ run Frenzy on their warriors? It's been the case for a good every single season now, it's run in HA, GVG, TA (some will try and claim it's a bad idea in TA, but they are full of crap)... and the scrubs will still continue to run Healing Breeze, Flurry garbage. Better premades probably won't fix that... they'll probably just see frenzy and be like "OMFG HOW2TANK!!!!?"

Frenzy is a risk, in that you are vulnerable to an extent when you are using it, but considering that it gets you adrenaline faster, increases damage in the form of spike and pressure then it's one hell of a good risk to take. And really it's not that huge of a risk, sure you'll get caught and spiked in frenzy sometimes, but you have sprint/rush/hex breaker to cancel it. Just don't suck too hard

_

So on the premades, I think it's good to finally see some good builds, sort of the common ones you'd hope and expect to see, Shock Warrior, Crip Shotter, Boon Monk, really cool - I hope that it might improve certain standards of players, doubt it willl though

Seems I've unearthed the close mindedness of some people -_-

Elaborate a little, all I've really got from you right now is you can come up with garbage like this "Spear of Light and Smite could become quite popular once the newb zerg rush on the Shock War kicks in."

Simple, 70% of people in guild wars will NOT move from a certain build to try and make something original.

Examples

IWAY in HA
Shock Wars
Boon Prots
MM
Blood Spike
Ritual Lords (To a lesser extent)
SS


The list goes on but you should be able to see what I am getting at.

People are just not trying to experiment much now with these builds. If it's not seen in Observer mode, it's crap.

Flame at will. (Btw the SoL and Smite thing was to get some thoughts flowing, and guess what, the closed mind said GTFO)

Close-mindedness?

I like the smiting line, and I'd love to run it. And I DO run it occasionally.

However, like most attribute lines, most of the skills in it are low tier, and largely uncomparable to the few good skills in it.

Balthazar's Aura, Smite Hex, Zealot's Fire, and Judge's Insight is pretty much the summation of what you see out of smiting competitively. The first is one of the few viable pulsing-DoT spells, the second has a large area and makes for cheap, armor-ignoring damage, the third, adds additional AoE damage while you also support allies, and the fourth tosses on another ~30% of base damage output from your warrior's attack.
Scourge Healing also sees play in hex heavy builds, both to discourage Heal Party spamming, and to further decrease the effectiveness of healing.

PvE-wise, Balthazar's Spirit and Shield of Jugment are added to that list. Strength of Honour possibly there, where maintained enchantments are much easier to use.

The bulk of the rest of the smiting line is overcosted, slow to recharge, and/or just plain bad. (Retribution + Holy Wrath, yay x_x)


It's rather sad that, even in PvE, where you run into monsters for sure in certain areas with vulnerability to Holy damage, you're often better off just using Judge's Insight on your Warrior, and then ignoring the monsters, for optimal damage output.


It is a FACT: Not all skills are created equally.

Some may have their niche uses while not being strictly better than others, but for the most part, as is in common in pretty much every game from Magic the Gathering to all MMORPG's, certain builds and certain skills float to the top. They're either simply strictly better than the rest, more viable in the current metagame, or provide a disproportionate amount of effectiveness vs the amount of skill required to run them.
As I understand it, the range of power levels between skills is often referred to as the "power band". But that's rather useless trivia <_<

In any case, as to guilds not running 'original builds', as I understand it, they do (Especially the most competitive ones). Off-season, unrated and/or in smurf guilds primarily, usually, but they're still trying new things. What you see in Observer Mode is what has petered out on top. The most effective builds for the current metagame that they feel most comfortable running.

Or maybe that's not the case... When I played warrior, I'd have something pretty standard to start with, eventually you'll swap skills out, try things out... and you just come to the same obvious conclusions with skills as everyone else, like I ended up in a period where I wouldn't take protectors strike off my bad, and if I'm running axe, Eviscerate is a must, I don't really feel the need to experiment with say, Whirling Axe, or Triple Chop, just from the skill description you can see they aren't good... there are just skills that stand out above others. Even if you look at IAS options for a warrior - you get Flurry, Frenzy, Tigers Stance, Beskerkers Stance, Tigers Fury (R) - and Frenzy, to me anyway, is just so superior than any of the others

On elementalist, Ether Prodigy would be a good example... I suppose this is largely because most ele elites are terrible, people might run it because they see it on observer, but to me, I don't think Ether Prodigy + Heal Party combo is simply copying, it's just a blatently obvious good build. And with ritualist you have the likes of Shelter and Rt Lord, and you look at the other Rt elites and they are largely really bad.

Obviously there will be skills out there that have undiscovered potential, but some skills (I'd say Smite is a pretty good example) are clearly limited in their use, and it doesn't even take experimenting to realise this.

If you look at skills like Tranquility you can see that, in certain builds, it could be a really poweful skill... especially in an Enchantment heavy HA environment... and OUT realised this and came up with the NR-Tranq build.

I consider HA to be largely pick up play anyway - and you're not going to get far experimenting with a pick up team in that. Builds like IWAY and Bloodspike are so convenient for pick up play, and are quite efficient at getting fame even with bad players which you will get in HA pick ups

The reason I made a mention of SoL and smite is they deal extra damage when an enemy is attacking, and QUITE alot too (considering it is ignoring armor).

Watching shock wars in observer mode. 9 times out of 10 they will frenzy the INSTANT they can after shock finishes. A hidden smiter listening to the player who has been shocked can capitalise by launching the two attacks quickly so that they both impact as close to each other as possible while the warrior is spiking. They can take A CRAPLOAD of damage before anyone knows what is going on, and afterward the warrior will be hesitant and unsure about another shock frenzy.

Yes it's a small window of oppertunity, but what isn't in gws.

Pst, cancel stance.

Anyways, the only character you would run SoL or smite is on an AoE smiting monk (other smiting builds are just crap), and their skillbar is tight as my pants on an elephant either way.

Casual players should rejoice. With the new premades you can actually learn and progress in PvP instead of 'tanking your Wa/Mo' to victory.

The only thing the old premade was good for was temporarily unlocking an elite skill for PvP.

And who cares if they are original. This is PvP - a competition to win. This is not a Fine Arts class. Be original where it counts. WTF - should I swing the bat with my feet because it is original?

After awhile it makes for a very boring build much like Iway .I don't mind axes but I prefer swords.

no one is about to shoot down a smart or informed idea about a skill,Sarevok Thordin, but you said amounts to frenzy sucking and that sol and smite(the spell) are good counters to a increased rush of frenzy warriors were going to see...

Frenzy has been then staple of the warrior meta game since the beta, and probally the alpha, it the best skill for what it does, period. Claiming the opposite is to blatently worng that people will tell you so.

The skill smite, is not a viable counter to a frenzy warrior, which btw is about 95-99% of all warriors in the entire GVG ladder, because...

stances cancle stances so by the time your first attack hits a competent warrior cancels sprint. For your attack to work you need 4 or 5 smites hitting at once which is called a spike. Competent Warriors dont use frenzy aginst spikes without prot spells on themselves and normally just not at all.

So theres no reason your statements make any sense, hench the resonse. No ones close minded here, just opposed to mistruths.

We all want more variety, and unfortunatly anet needs to buff old skills or we have to buy new chapters for that to happen...

This is one small step to making PvP more accessible to newcomers. I hope Anet puts these builds in soon, it is something they should have done ages ago. A new player that wants to jump into PvP has to put up with horribly ineffective builds like the Spell Slasher and Paladin, and the very slow faction unlock rate.

All the friends I have tried to get into the game, gave up early because of they got stuck using gimped builds, and did not want to spend days grinding faction before they could unlock the required skills for a decent build and the runes/mods to go with it. Having to win 5 times in a row in RA before unlocking TA did not help either. I will be making another attempt to bring them into GW once the new premades are in.

In the past, GW had premades that were good, but not at expert level skill requirement. I think giving top-level builds to newbies is a bad idea. The only 3 I could see being premades are the ones that involve all skills (I think the air ele, blessed light monk, and the mesmer thing.)

New premades are excellent. Only 12 though? I wonder what will happen to the old premades, since they're outdated, and never were really any good to begin with. I hope the old ones end up trashed (sorry to those that made them... at least update them), and beginners don't have a chance to take them and get slaughtered. Still only 12 premades with no necro primary's seems a bit sparse.

Thanks EW guild Good luck in Germany!

could this be the end of the paladin?

you can complain that these prebuilds have been nerfed over the years,
but by far they didn't get as nerfed as hard os one of the orignal pre-builds.
if you were going to play it again you would need to take 2 elites.


although yay for the updated boon prot, which i still attribute to Fi annna with there, Fi Boon healer.
and now that shock wars are now a prebuild, it doesn't make much diffrance anyways, people have been using them for ages and will continue using them and there varouis varritions.

Still a fact that they gimp builds to promote buying/unlocking the good ones.

Even ones submitted by guilds and such aren't awesome.

Like your assassin for a quick example, as a Premade, would definately lose Aura (already a premade with it) and replace with like..death's charge or something, and it'd be given a Crappy dagger attack elite.

EW pwns.

Considering how useful these builds are in the current metagame, these new prebuilds should pass for the "Tournament Edition" that the pvp community agitates for.

Er, doesn't that defeat the purpose of running a cripshot ranger?

Well, they used to be Gale Axe Warriors, but yeah.

I still cannot agree to the many positive reactions to the builds.

These builds are good, I would even say too good and too specialized. Can I really go out in RANDOM ARENA with these builds? I think people should adjust these builds to be useful for RA, TA and GvG. It is too limiting to make PREMADE builds that only work in one environment. This misses the point of premades.

JR's Blessed Light Monk and Blinding Prodigy are fine builds that work, but there are some that are just too specialized.

Warrior's Anguish
http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/guild...uild-1595.html

No self-heal. This is a team build for someone who already knows what he is supposed to do. Chances for new player to get educated? Useable for the Randoma Arena?

Energy Denied
http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/guild...uild-1594.html
No Rez Signet and no self-heal. This is a good build, but it is too specialized. The ideal build for a starter to check RA and get a bloody nose.

Tainted Ally
http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/guild...uild-1596.html
Team build. Not self sufficient. How specialized must it be, this is not a viable way to show someone the abilities of the char class.

Hit Divine Boon is quite okay, though the lack of a Rez Signet again suggests that RA and use in more than in the group environment it was designed for was not deemed necessary.

The Assassin build is also sent out into the fray without any source of healing. True, you do not need that as long as you have a monk.


These players are forced to add some healing themselves or simply get educated to quit in RA if there is no monk in their team.


Hey, do not get me wrong, these builds are smart. But if they replace the old builds that are considered sub par, players will have an even harder time to get into the game with them. They are written for advanced players and do not have basics like self-heal and rez that new and casual players will miss much more, as if they have a whole team to support them that knows what to do. Some of these builds are totally useless in RA, this got totally neglected.

Instead of weaker, but more general builds that work all the time so-so, these builds are too often highly effective but also highly specialized builds that are designed for higher level PvP and not for starters.


I do not oppose the introduction of these builds, but they also need some viable and easy builds for starters. Nobody belittles himself by creating such a build.

Monks don't ever carry res in PvP unless you are a midline/smite monk. So I am unsure why you think it 'suggest that RA'
If anything, it lacks Prot Spirit.

Something to remember is that you can easily switch 1-2 skill to make them approriate for 4v4 or 8v8.
For the Energy Denial - just remove the hard res to a soft res and remove one of the energy management for Ether Feast - now you got a 4v4 build.

At least IWAY isnt in there....

Most of the builds submitted are fairly common anyway so i don't mind them being used.

What I do think, is the builds need to state where they should be used in the description.

Blinding Prodigy - Heal Party in RA? this is clearly a GVG build.
Energy Denial - No real self defense at all, will be torn apart in RA in seconds.

E.G

Used in :

RA
Frenzy Theory
Hot Stepper
Cripshot Ranger
Final Master
JR's Blessed Light Monk
Hit Divine Boon


TA

Frenzy Theory
Hot Stepper
Cripshot Ranger
Final Master
Warrior's Anguish
JR's Blessed Light Monk
Hit Divine Boon


AVA

Frenzy Theory
Final Master
Cripshot Ranger
Tainted Ally
Air of Smite
Hit Divine Boon


HA

Frenzy Theory
Energy Denied
Tainted Ally
Air of Smite


GVG

Frenzy Theory
Blinding Prodigy
Energy Denied
Final Master
Air of Smite

It deeply offends me that you limited my build to RA and TA.

And to be honest I think your classifications are way off anyway. Any of the builds submitted are really viable in any form of PvP, baring those without self heals being decent in RA... but who cares about RA. Some of them may be less suitable; for example Tainted Flesh is really a waste of an elite in TA, but they are the exceptions not the rule.

well... he also didn't include the standard boon monk that everyone uses in GVG in the gvg section.. Hit Divine Boon .. and didn't include the crip shot for that matter.

I don't even think in RA a boon monk should be taking a res sig. They need to be as self sufficient as possible because pretty much everyone in RA has the MONK FIRST mentality, I'd say you're better off with having all 8 skills. When will you really get the time to res as a solo monk anyway?

I think have the builds somewhat specialized may get people to wonder why they are good.... Frenzy will be such a shock to so so many RA players, but ultimately it may get some of them to actually think why it's good, and where it's good

I think people should really get off the 'not good for RA' mentality. This is why so many people do not enjoy PvP much. They limit themself to the worse PvP part of GW.

Sakashi - I think you still miss the point of premades. Its a starting ground - a gateway to PvP.
The previous premades where so bad that it began a generation of Healing Hand Wa/Mos. Most of them never understanding the mechanics of GW PvP. It lead to more 'original' bad builds than effective builds - even if they are cookie cutters (remember the point of PvP is to WIN. No one ever says 'Wow - that losing build is awesome because it has style.'

These new premades are much more flexible and teaches people why a snare and healing signet is 10x better than Healing Hands - for almost any build - not just Wa/Mos.
It teaches why monks are better with energy management. Hell I think you just learned, BECAUSE of THE NEW PREMADE, that monks should never carry res in PvP (with some rare exceptions of course).

Sorry JR. To be honest monk is the one profession i really don't play much of so i wasn't trying to offend your build. I just don't know how well it performs elsewhere ok.
So although my judgement might be a _little_ off you can agree certain builds are suited better in a specific arena, and i thought it would be worth mentioning for new players using pre-mades.
But now comparing them with the old pre-mades these are very flexible builds that can be a good choice for pretty much any PvP.