Guild Wars Store Ideas-Your opinions - What should and should not be done?

Hello.

Decided to take Inde's advice from the "What would you like to see in the store?" thread, so here it is.

Well, i'll start this off.

Things I want: Character slots-I'd like to have atleast 1 slot for each proffesion + 1 extra for pvp.
Out -game merchandise: Mugs, Mousemats ect-Would be nice

Things I don't want: Gold sold for cash- really bad if this happens, would unbalance economy so much.
Eye candy or uber items sold in the store; what about those who want but cannot get? Another unbalance.

Please discuss WHY you wouldn't and would want certain things in the store? Please give reasons.

Thanks
Ashleigh

I think the entire aspect of the store is something that needs to be carefully looked at. I have not personally paid for a game before where I have been charged for things such as a hairstyle upgrade, an account merge, or anything else. While I have some worries even about the ability to purchase additional character slots there are certain things such as the DirectSong packs that I can certainly see, paying for an emote or special weapon sets off some alarms for me.

I'm not sure if ArenaNet wants the player's feedback to "feel us out" or if they are honestly thinking of putting these type of things in the store. It's not been done before by a game such as this (but then again when has ArenaNet ever conformed )

I would like to see unlocks becomming available - not because I want them personally, but because I know a lot of people do, and the arguments against them just aren't good enough in my opinion. Forcing people to play through PvE is forcing people away from playing Guild Wars. PvE is not the entire game. Marketing statistics show that 80% of repeatable purchases will be those engaged in the competitive aspect of the game. Most of those who play PvE exclusively will tend to quit after 2/3 Months.

I'd also have no problems with cool-looking promotional skins, though I know it would go against what ArenaNet have said in the past (kind of, I guess it's different when it's them selling, and not third-party companies). The same reasoning applies as before. There's no solid argument against allowing it, really. As long as the items don't cause imbalances between PvE and PvP, there's no problem whatsoever.

Too true Inde I highly doubt Anet will put in special greens or such, it would totally destroy the whole aspect of the game. I'd hate for this to be a buy-yourself- better game

I'd support skill unlocks, definately. But even with that, the game would be favouring pve'ers more still. IMO when you join guildwars you should recieve say 50 free skill unlocks of your choice, and say 10 elites of your choice for pvp.

I'm definately against cool skins though, I don't see why the people with inability to pay should watch the "better off" people walk around with really cool skins they just bought from the store, when the people who can't pay themself just feel..leftout, and often the reason they can't pay is theres too little payment options.

Ashleigh

Now, rofl. WoW and FFXI allow you to buy more character slots. ;D (not to be the bearer of bad news or anything, just saying.)

But WoW and FFXI have monthly fees, guildwars does not You've got to give them some credit, there developing ways for more income. More income=better staff +resources= better game entertainment. It's one big circle.

I see the store as an alternative to going down to the local store and having to buy your boxed game there. Though I know that they have agreements with retailers to sell their game through them, I feel that if you can buy directly through the developer it would simplify things for some people. Plus many retailers did not get their shipments of Factions when they were scheduled to get them causing many people to have to wait. This would eliminate that problem. I personally don't need the "box in hand" if I am buying the regular version of a game, the collectors edition may be different.

I would like to see the store sell character slots and regular and collectors edition versions of new and old chapters. For CE's they could mail you the extra physical content. If you want an extra account, you could buy it directly from them instead of having to go to the store to get it.

Thats pretty much all I think the store should offer. Like you guys said above me In-game items=HUGE no no.

Krugz, I wasn't really referring to character slots, or storage. More to the fact that the game doesn't charge a monthly fee, etc. As ashleigh stated above.

Inde, sorry about putting that post in the wrong place. This seems to be the right place...

Shame on Anet if they sell in-game items...

quote from fansite friday #61
i have no issue with the selling of access keys, or real world items.

IMO it would be nice to be able to acquire new skins ingame, like you acquire skills for PvP... As in buying them with ingame currency or unlocking them like the new titles. e.g., if you get all the titles, or a lot of them, you get a new player skin option, OR you go to some priest of some sort and buy them with faction like you buy skills. IMO being able to buy($) anything ingame related is bad.

If Anet thinks we want more character slots, they should offer 2-3 for free, that way it's fair for all players regardless of how much they are willing to spend to get new characters. I just don't want the game to become spoiled because some guy who has 20 characters can hold more then twice the materials I can. It might not seem like much, but it's got to be easier to make a trade when you've got more materials then your competition. Also I gaurntee you there will be some sort of glitch that the players with many char slots will learn of and exploit. Obviously, I can't predict what it will be but I'm sure they will find something.

If you can't gain something ingame through skill and determination, it shouldn't be available IMO.

I ok with a store for some things. Hope gold is not sold there. Also I think to change the character apperance ie. hair, face and skin should be done in-game and for some amount of gold, not through a store for real $$. The reason is we bought the game and paid for the character already should not have to buy a new character that we already on.

I do hope that the store will sell the up coming games and CE also. I would probalbly buy it from there instead of running to the store. The One thing I would really like to see is to purchase an upgrade for current account and receive the benifits. I want to upgrade my orginal GW to CE and Fraction to CE, but don't want to pay the full price. That would be good in the store. Also would like to buy Mini pets but not the ones for gifts, new and different. That would be fun.

Agreed. I think that the store should offer things that enhance gameplay experience, rather than actual gameplay. For example, added character slots allow you to play the game as more professions, allowing you to experience more of what the game has to offer. Adding things like direct song packs would make the atmospheres more enjoyable (although the music is already great!). Those are the types of things that I think would make the store a success. On the other hand, adding things like weapons/gold/unlocks are essentially letting you skip playing the game, and it would be no different than allowing people to buy gold/accounts third party. Adding upgrades for storage/hairstyles/etc should be universal, no purchase neccesary global updates. It would be unfair to offer things like guild/improved storage to those that can afford a more expensive game.

Real world items like soundtracks, posters, bobble-heads would be great! I've no problem with people(me) investing(wasting money) on something to prove how nerdy they(I) are(am)!

So in short, Enhancements to experience = good. Ugrades to gameplay = bad, unless its free to all.

It greatly annoys me the people who say auras and similar shouldnt be available for sale because it would 'no longer make them unique'. As far as Im concerned its screwing over the people that COULDNT pay the extra in the start to get it. What is really the difference between paying then and paying now for it? The money still goes to support our favorite game and even if it is avaliable not everyone and their puppy dog will buy it. Make the buyable aura look a bit different then so the original ones will still be "unique".

Plus since I play as necro and monk I would love dancers or something similar for them, which future games will not likely offer because they are core. Maybe a command that would summon a ghost minion that does a random trick like begging, a short dance, laying down and playing dead before it dissapears.

By selling any kind of in game items A-net would clearly state that selling for real world money is ok, and Bot's would be legit, might as well let e-bay open up a shop in LA and Kainang.

And, A-Net if you do decide on selling ingame items, could you develop and sell a bot program in the shop, so ppl don't have to worry about keyloggers and such.

Kiya. I agree with the altered aura. Maybe have one for your head or something, would look pretty cool, and would go well by itself or WITH the old aura. Pre-order items should never be for sale though, there not good stat wise, but there good sentimental wise, like a rememberance from when they started the game

What's everyone think about merchandise? Ie: Mugs, Mouse mats ect. In the picture I saw of the store, there was a note at the bottom saying *Items bought will be credited on the account it is purchased on- no shipping is needed*..or something like that.

I think it'd be nice to have them, but I highly doubt they would be put in because of all the mess involved- shipping, distribtuion ect. It probably wouldn't be worth the small prophit.

Ashleigh.

Actually, I think selling items is forbidden in the Terms of Service because anet is the one who "owns" the item. Third party sellers are not allowed to sell anets property. Since the store is official, anet is allowed to sell all they want.

When it comes to selling vanity equipment, I'm fine with it as long as:
-The skin can't be found normally (This makes it obvious that the buyer's rich and that newly generated items won't distort demand for the skin in the economy)
-The stats are easy to find: like collector, weaponsmith or green stats (Again, so it won't distort the economy)
-The item is customized (Yeah, to protect the economy again)

Yes, It will make a few people angry that they can't have them. However, anet won't lose anything from this. It's not like people will quit because they can't have the *LOOK AT ME I'M RICH* skins. You also won't find anyone going "I was going to buy Guild Wars until I found out you need to pay to get the tengu costume!"

And no, I'm not planning on buying vanity skins.

Good point Azun, although I disagree with buying skins.

For those few who are saying Gold should be buyable in the store- heres why it definately won't be for sale; all prices will most definately raise by atleast 15k. As people will have so much money, they don't buy cheap. The chain carrys on, those who can't buy gold remain poor, whilst those who can remain rich, and whenever they are feeling poor they can simply buy more gold.
So the people who can't buy it have a very low chance of getting good items, as they would become so highly priced. It's a good job Anet are shutting down bot farmers and shutting down gold auctions on ebay, otherwise GW would turn out like runescape- things selling for 25 mil.


Ashleigh

What is wrong with you people who hope gold is not sold on there?

Do you think keeping it on eBay with a bunch of bot farmers is going to help you any?

Seriously, people are going to buy gold whether you like it or not. What you really want is a way for GW to control the supply of gold in the economy. To control the gold supply in game, wouldn't it be nice if you could sell gold to Anet to earn $ usuable towards the game store. So instead of having to plunk down $10 for a character slot you could sell X amount of gold it GW. GW could in turn use this gold as the supply the sell gold from and have a substantial markup on it for those lazy people who won't work for it. In the end you get stuff for "free" because you choose to farm. People who want to buy gold will do so and pay a higher price for it than what the GW store exchange rate is and bot farmers have lost their customer base unless they can undersell ANet. So what is the result of this: ANet gets money, you get "free" upgrades by selling gold to ANet, people who want to buy gold pay a higher price than what GW economy says it worth, and ANet could put a dent in the bot farming in general.

There are some in game economic impacts that I need to think through but can't atm (I'm at work).

Ideally, here is how I would like to see GW protect the in game economy against inflation spikes caused by ppl who buy gold: If a rare mat. spiked in price have the game increase the drop rate on that item until it is back within a reasonable price range (it may still be high in price but not outrageous). This way those that want to buy the materials for their vanity armor can do so but won't hurt people like you or me who actually farm for it and we actually get the benefits of increased drop rates during the spike period. But this rough idea gives you a way to have ANet earn money, solve the bot problem, and reward players who earn their gold the hard way.

FYI, I've built up a sizeable stash through farming but I am still using Droks armor for all my chars. I'd be poor if I wanted the 15k gear and I personally refuse to buy gold. However, I do understand why people do it.

The only things that should be in the store are:

1. Purchases, such as character slots or game (keys). For example, we should be able to buy Nightfall through the store. It should actually be less than retail because of the lack of distribution and seller costs.

2. Real world items. Your coffee cups, mousepads, Kurzick vs Luxon Chess Set (with pieces carved from amber and jade... ), etc.

3. In game pure novelty items, stacks of 250 for 99 cents. Such as the snowman summoners, Ghosts-in-the-boxes, etc. They have no effect in the game but are entertaining in towns.

That should be it... but that can also encompass a lot.

Things that should NOT be sold...

Storage or character improvements. The ability to change hairstyle should be universal, as should future storage upgrades, if any.

Anything sellable! Non-customized minipets, gold, materials, weapons, etc.

UAX.

Was it not stated by Jeff Strain in an interview that they could not make things apear on the game server? (correct me if i'm wrong)
So in order for A-net to sell in game items and gold they would have to remove that "safe guard", opening the game to manipulation. Unless they run Bot's to collect the gold and other Items thats for sale.
And plz don't say it can't be hacked, they hack anything they want, given time and it would make it profitable to do. It would make it impossible for a-net to counter this without having to do rollbacks every time they get hacked.

People will buy gold whether it's allowed or not. But, if buying gold was officially supported, more gold would be bought compared to if buying gold was unsupported. If gold was buyable in the official store, we'd see way more economic warping.

Why would Anet need gold?? Why would Anet give discounts when they could be making more $$? Anet wouldn't do that because they need all the cash they can get to keep up decent servers and server maintenance.

Ashleigh.

Well here is the thing... you all are worried about the in game economy going out of whack... so you need a huge gold sink somewhere because afterall, we don't want ANet to just keep "printing money." Thus if ANet "bought" back gold they could maintain reserves and better control the in game economy. Think of the U.S. Federal Reserve system, this is no different from that as it would control the in-game economy by not increasing the overall gold supply in GW. Where as if GW just "printed" 50 plat for you when you bought gold then prices would go out of whack... also check my edit of my post... it defines how to ideally deal with problems of rare mat price spikes.

Plus gold is being bought and sold everyday, while it may not be official, ANet is losing money because of it.

Example time:
If ANet buys 100 plat from you or me for $2.50 and resells it for a $5.00. They have 100% markup on that gold. In addition, they are taking gold out of the in game economy to use as the gold they are selling. Also, do remember that I stated this would be good for $ only at the GW store so they arent going to be mailing you a check anytime soon. They have an incremental cost involved with offering items in the game store, BUT they should make up for your getting a free character slot because they have a 100% markup on the gold you sold them. In the end the net effect of ANet giving you your "character slot" you paid for by selling them GW gold is ZERO. They sell the gold to people in game at 2x the price you paid and the result is that those people who are too lazy to farm are paying for you character slot and the gold you sold to ANet.

The result is that if you can't afford to purchase upgrades, but do play quite a bit, you can get things through the GW store.

I'll try to clarify more if you have further questions, but the details behind my idea are based on how various financial markets work and the GW online economy isn't exactly the most robust economy.

Finally, I do realize that at a 100% markup someone could buy gold from you for $3.00 per 100 plat and sell it for $4.00 per 100 plat. But remember, with ANet it would be and instantaneous transaction. Where as with the other guys... who knows. So you are back to a time vs. value trade off. Are you really willing to wait 30 minutes for some guy to show up to send him your gold, and confirm that he has paypal'd you $3.00? I gaurantee you this is more work for someone to go through than the current gold farming bots.

He said that the devs cannot spawn items/gold. However, they could create a key that when added to a player's account that item would appear in the players inventory.

For those of you saying that selling gold would stop ebay gold sellers, I highly doubt that. All that would happen is the ebayers would drop their prices to be lower than ArenaNet's. As for the impact on the economy, since there would be an official way to buy gold, more people would start doing it. With more gold flooding the market, prices will skyrocket. As prices go up and up, it will get to the point that people will have to buy gold in order to get items and upgrades.

Ah Cassius, I just noticed you saying they resell the gold. It sounds a good idea, but sorry i'm still against it. I've never been for the buy ingame stuff for real money-galore.

Ashleigh

If ANet resells gold, people will run bots to farm gold to sell to ANet who sells to other players? How is this different than buying gold from EBay? ANet is the middle man instead of EBay? I'd rather see ANet make the money than EBay so they can make the game better, but the concept of selling gold for money is just wrong in my opinion.

What use does a bot farmer have for GW Store $ that only buys GW Store items for his bot account? Most bot farmers use the money they earn on eBay to live off of or to supplement their income, not buy account/character upgrades. I don't think you will ever completely eliminate bot farmers but you can definitely make it so it isn't worth someone's time and money to bot farm for a living.

Here are my opinions on the most controversial issues...

Gold - Terrible idea.

*Yes, botters are out there selling gold on E-Bay.
*But most players know that purchasing that gold is in violation of the EULA, and is subject to a ton of risk. That is why you don't see the widespread prevelance of players coming in with 1 million gold and overbidding on every green weapon out there.
*Allowing a bonafide, SPONSORED way of purchasing gold in game will take away all of those deterrents.
*Using a basic economics argument, this will result in the price of most items skyrocketing for every player in game - not only in the WTS/WTB chat, but also from the material and rune traders as well.

Unique/Novelty Armor/Items - Terrible idea.

Most players want to know that they have the ability to "earn" every item available in the game, even novelty items, through playing the game or participating in events. Envy can be a terrible morale-buster, and I can see players actually purchasing such items being discriminated against/taunted/berated by those not willing to pay that money.

Collector's Editions from previous issues - Good idea.

Yes, this cheapens the "uniqueness" of the original collector editions' owners, but in the end if someone wants to pay the actual spread paid by the CE owners when it was issued (i.e. around $20), I don't see the problem in allowing them to have access to this feature.

Extra Storage - Terrible idea.

I'm actually surprised as to the amount of players that would be willing to pay for this.

*Many of us have multiple armor sets in order to gain the fullest utility out of our characters.
*That utility is somewhat restricted right now due to the limitations of our storage space. That is, I usually can only have 3 different armor sets for each of my characters without making them completely useless in PvE from picking up additional loot.
*Charging for additional storage space will give other players a distinct IN-GAME PLAYING ADVANTAGE over my current characters, as they will have the ability to purchase many other different armor sets that I will not be able to store.
*Many view this as a conveinence factor (like additional character slots) - I view it as an actual in-game advantage.

I'll edit my post with more comments when I have time.

You must have missed my first post... if GW programming notices that prices for certain items are going above the thresholds then the program could adjust the drop rates for those items accordingly until they come back down.

Is their code this robust?
I have no clue.

Does this solve the green and rare weapons issues?
No, because to monitor those they would need an auction house where they could gain such tracking capability. (It would also be a gold sink in itself since the auction house could charge x% of commision on items sold there.)

In the end it becomes a trade off between how much it would cost ANet to implement effective economic controls to deal with official gold buying, and the amount of money they would bring in by hosting the activity. If they find that the costs of properly safeguarding the environment are too great compared to what they'd make from selling gold and don't want to officially sell gold thats fine. However, if they have the opportunity to earn money without destroying the balance of the game and, in the process improve the game economy, then they should leave no stone unturned.

P.S. no matter what they should get an auction house... it would really make things easier on all players and would help establish the price trends for items throughout the GW world.

Unfortunately, this would likely only be a band-aid for the issue. Are you going to have fellblades, magmas shields and eternal shields drop right outside of Ascalon City? Unless there is a crazy increase in the drop rate for items, the impact (as compared to people purchasing gold) would likely not stem the overall inflation that would be created by purchased gold.

You also have to realize that dramatically increasing the amount of gold available in the economy has an exponential effect. For example, the person that purchases gold buys an item for much higher than the original worth. The person that sold that item now has that excess cash. So that person goes and buys an item from another player for much higher than the original worth. So on and so on...that results in multiple items going up in average price for one player simplying purchasing gold.

I have a degree in economics from the University of Texas (see my icon), and this is definitely a time-tested theory. Unless the supply (i.e. drop rate) dramatically increases (to the point where it's just plain silly), it cannot hope to compete with the increase in accessibility of gold.

There's a problem because those who first bought it thought they were getting a limited edition version of the game--so cheapening the uniqueness shouldn't happen. It's called a collector's edition for a reason. There's no time-limit on when it's okay to blow that away. If you didn't by the CE, you should be out of luck. Also, it would be a bad thing for Anet to do. Why? Because if they set this sort of precedent, nobody will bother buying the boxed CE when it first becomes available. They'll just buy a standard version and decide later if they want to convert to it to the CE for $20. Some never will, because why buy a CE that's not really a CE? So I'm against this unless they charge full price for the key, because that'll keep the numbers down and they won't be shooting future CE versions in the foot.

The same goes for preorder items. If they start selling those, then nobody will bother to preorder to get them. They'll just wait until a few months later when the items become available in the store.

Agreed on all points. I especially like the point of exra storage giving people an in game advantage over others.

JetDoc,

Since you outed yourself as having an econ degree (mine is in accounting & finance), do you think that having a fixed amount of GW currency in the game world would help control overall inflation if gold buying were legitmized? This way ANet could establish a floating currency exchange rate that would make it more expensive to buy gold as the salable supply became scarce. I know that going to a fixed amount of currency has its own potential problems but your thoughts would be appreciated.

But then you'd have what happened when they reset the in game prices for materials and Dyes. Those that happened to be on when it was available would become in game millionaires, and those that were slower on the draw would be out of luck because the prices would Sky-rocket soon afterwards. Once the price became more and more expensive, fewer and fewer people would buy gold, and it would be the priviledged few that were ready that would reap the benefits.

People will still buy the future CE editions because they want the physical stuff that comes with it too. But if someone wants just the ingame part and doesnt want the rest then let them buy it. A CE is just an upgraded copy so I think its fair to get to buy the upgrade a bit later when you are sure you want to play the game still.

And what about the people that didn't even know GW existed when the collectors edition came out? Or the people that were in some place where collectors edition NEVER came out (I know there is someone from australia or something like that saying that collectors edtion never came out there, even though he would have bought it if it did)? Are you basically saying "Well, you started playing GW at the wrong time so you are screwed. HAHAHA! Oh and you, you live in the wrong place so you are also screwed. Sucks to be you doesn't it?" (maybe that is a little over-dramatic, but I think you get my point. )

Also, there are STILL collectors editions being sold and "cheapening the uniqueness" of having collectors edition. Plus, since there are so many people that want it, why not have Arena Net make profit off it?

Oh, and it would be AT LEAST $5 to $10 more to upgrade your account to collectors edition than just buying it when it first came out, that way it would be better just to buy the collectors edition from the start.

As far as teh preorder weapons, those would mostly be ones from preorders we couldn't get, such as the ones in china and such. They DO have different weapons than the ones we got, which is why they were suggested in the first place, to have something that we couldn't have otherwise (unless we lived there or traveled there just for the preorder ) Also, there were (at least for the factions one. I don't even know if there was a preorder for prophecies) events that were only accesible if you if you bought the preorder, and they hopefully will continue making these. The event alone is enough to get me to get the preorder.

Also, NO TO BUYING GOLD. At first this seems like a good idea and a reasonable way for Arena Net to make money, but in the long run it WILL ruin the economy of the game,no matter what you do. Sure, they can keep lowering the prices of dyeand stuff, but players will just buy it in mass quantities untill it goes back to the "normal" price and then sell it slightly cheaper than the "normal" price and make a profit. As far as player trades, like greens, there is no way to moniter that unless they make a auction house and do what you said, which will just promote people to not use the auction house so that they get maximum profit for themselves. Eventually, items will be so expensive that the only way to get good items and greens is to

1. Get really lucky after doing a lot of farming and get what they want.

2. Farm for months and sell anything they get just to get enough money to buy the item they want.

3. Buy gold from the store.

The only option that wouldn't take way too long is the third one, which would bassically make a monthly fee, since you would have to buy it on a regular basis.

Furthermore, it wouldn't get rid of bots and e-bayers, OR discourage them. They would probably think "If it is fine for Arena Net to do it, then it is fine for me to do it!" If anything, it would encourage bots because they know that Arena Net is doing it, so people can no longer get their accounts banned for buying gold, and a lot more people would do it, and then the e-bayers would just keep selling gold while playing the "lets sell gold cheaper than Arena Net so people buy it from us" game.

IF Arena Net decides to sell something like gold or non-customised items, which would ruin the economy, then I, along with many other players, will quit GW forever, even though it is a great game.

I'm all for selling in-game items to keep profits up, but they WOULD HAVE TO BE customized so they won't be sold for in-game money. If it isn't customised, it would be just as bad as selling gold. In fact, if they uncutomised in-game items, they might as well sell in game gold too.

This is a big post...0_0....I think I need to make smaller posts from now on...:P

Honestly, I don't know how A-Net would accomplish this, unless:

(1) They eliminated PvE enemies from dropping gold when they die;
(2) They prevent players from selling items/materials/dyes to the merchants/traders; and
(3) Eliminate gold rewards from quests.

Unlike governments, who can stop printing money, A-Net cannot stop "issuing" new gold to players. They can prevent gold from being purchased, but that would (1) tend to simply put boundaries around the base problem with allowing the sale of gold and (2) may result in a "run on the bank" problem once it's announced that gold can be purchased again. As stated by Snipious above, that could be very similar to the "run on the bank" that occurred when material, dye and rune prices were reset.

By the way, I also have my Masters in Accounting and Finance as well - it's nice to talk to someone else in the financial field...

Good points, and to add to that- a good majority of players will not be able to purchase anything from the stores, either due to age restrictions(not having a cc) or lack of payment options( either no option for there debitcard/cc or no paypal) or simply don't trust putting billing info online.

Ashleigh

There seems to be much debate in the other thread if the ability to change your characters appearance should cost $$$ or be available at an NPC in game.

I feel that there needs to be a cost, wether a small amount of RL money, or a lot of in game currency, to change your characters appearance in PVE, otherwise people will be changing there characters appearance everday, sometimes multiple times a day, and then everyone looses their identity.

Why do people keep saying it would be unfair to some players if people could buy special skins, or special (customized) weapons? If they had the $50 to buy the game in the first place, they should have the cash to buy something from the GW store. And, if the person is a kid, they'd just tell whoever bought the game for them to buy the item from GW. As long as the item isn't unbalancing to the game, there shouldn't be a problem.