ncsoft told me to post this here

arcanemacabre

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

29 Jul 2006 at 08:28 - 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvrod
Max armor at Droks costs 12k exactly without runes or dye (yes dye is optional, but so are runes if you want to be that technical). Warrior runes of superior absorption go for about 2k each right now so 5 pieces of armor X 2k = 10k. Orange dye 140g, green dye 100g, yellow dye 100g, mixed for a goldish bronze = 340g per vial, again X 5 = 1k700g.

That brings the armors total cost to 12k + 10k + 1k700g = 23k700g

I challlenge you to show me how you can make that in 4 hours of farming!

Whoa, whoa, whoa... what!? Are you serious with the totals, here? First off, why would you need 5 Absorbtion runes?? They are non-locational and non-stacking. Always has been, always will be. So right there your totals are way off. The fact that you're including dye costs are laughable as well.

Besides, 23,700g in 4 hours? I can make at least 3k in less than 15 minutes Vermin farming. It's easy as pie. That's 16 runs in 4 hours X 3k per run = 48k bare minimum. Stupidly simple farming, albeit a bit boring. So yeah, 24k in two hours.

Edge Martinez

Edge Martinez

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

NC

DKL

29 Jul 2006 at 09:02 - 42
I'm actually all for changing farming and running. I would never call it nerfing. How many times have they nerfed the Droks run? People still do it. If they CHANGE a monster, real people would still be able to farm it. If they added monsters, real people would still be able to farm. Bots may get screwed, and that's fine by me.

I like simple examples. Here is a simple example of why CHANGING a droks run makes sense. Two TROLLS talking in the cave when a Droks runner appears:

BARF: Here he comes... oh no, he's backing up again! Get him!
GRRR: Why do we always go get him... he'll just do that side-step thing and run by us when we group up.
BARF: So what's your plan Einstein?
GRRR: Lets cripple 'em when they run by!
BARF: Hey... that might work! We can even leverage this to our brothers who guard the path to the seer!
GRRR: What's leverage?
BARF: Dunno.

I'd love to see ANet just give some of the more intelligent mobs a secondary profession. Might piss off farmers, but people who actually go questing will have a blast.

mrvrod

Guest01

Join Date: Jul 2006

29 Jul 2006 at 09:04 - 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quince
well i know for a fact that you can even get a set of 15k armor dyed black without farming.... all you have to do is save all your cash through all the missions and it works out nicely. That is what i did and my ele in black pyro suit is looking pretty good. Quite frankly farming kind of pisses me off simply because when i originally heard of the 15k armor i thought.... well that will be a challenge. I originally thought that what you had to do is become skilled enough to beat the game just on what you find with low level armor. Right after glint's lair i had enough for the armor alone. The following missions gave me the cash i needed for the dye. I was a bit pissed when then i went back to ascalon city to sell some stuff and saw a level 7 ele with my same armor. Keep in mind this was before titles came out. I thought that your armor was what told everyone... well i got that far and here is what i have to show for it. Kind of like a trophy on your wall. You may not agree with me.... but please hear me out. I am simply saying that nerfing farming wouldn't make 15k armor impossible to get... just more of a "game-long" challenge. Plus that might force a drop in price on alot of things... meaning those uber-expensive greens no one but farmers can afford suddenly become alot more affordable. Less money in the system drops the price of a WHOLE LOT of things. However i will have to agree with the nerfing the running thing. I have 4 proph chars and 2 faction chars. I find that after the second time of running through all the missions in the proph. campaign that i REALLY don't want to HAVE to do it again just to get the cool looking armor i want. So yea.... i have some cash left over from 2 of my chars i beat the game with and got 15k armor with.... so i want to get my other chars good armor (not 15k mind you... but good enough to use) just so the process of going through missions would be faster. so not being able to find a good runner would have been a pain. Taking my chars to factions is also proving to be a pain cause i can't get to where i want. It is just annoying. It isn't going to stop me from playing..... it will just stop me from making another factions char. ah well. Hopefully they read this stuff for Nightfall and expansion 4.
I definitely understand your letdown when you see something you earned being worn by someone who didn't. And I can honestly say my lvl 20 is wearing Droks armor because I earned it. But seeing someone with it when they haven't earned it doesn't take away from your accomplishment, everyone knows a lvl 8 hasn't gotten to droks on their own.

It seems to be mostly rooted in pride and jealousy; "I got it the hard way, so you can't have it any other way." or "I can't afford the run or the armor, so you shouldn't get it either."

I honestly don't want to have to run every character I make through every single side quest and mission just to fully equip them. And contrary to some other posts, this is not just about affording armor. As an active guild member, there are costs to running a guild. Just buying and equiping a guild hall can run over 300k. Then you have to think about recruiting. We have contests with platinum payouts for members who recruit the most (retention being a key part of it). We also have other guild only events with platinum or rare items being the prizes. This all costs, and we are able to do it because some of us are willing to farm and donate these things.

I know there are valid arguments on both sides of this. I have stated that I will be fine with whatever outcome ther is. If I am in the minority, it will show in this thread. If I am in the majority, ncsoft really has to look at what their doing to the players in their quest to kill the bots.

I do appreciate your comments, as I do all intelligent arguments in this thread regardless of which side their on.

Edge Martinez

Edge Martinez

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

NC

DKL

29 Jul 2006 at 09:11 - 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvrod
Just buying and equiping a guild hall can run over 300k. Then you have to think about recruiting. We have contests with platinum payouts for members who recruit the most (retention being a key part of it). We also have other guild only events with platinum or rare items being the prizes. This all costs, and we are able to do it because some of us are willing to farm and donate these things.
It's awesome your guild does this for members, but equipping a guild falls into the same category as dye in my opinion. Nice to have, but not necessary. Same with recruiting and retention. I can understand your points though... it may screw up the economy. At least understand that to some of us there ISN'T an economy. It's more like, "Dude, anyone got a spare Ryvers shortbow?" "No? Sweet, let's go get one."

mrvrod

Guest01

Join Date: Jul 2006

29 Jul 2006 at 09:13 - 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Whoa, whoa, whoa... what!? Are you serious with the totals, here? First off, why would you need 5 Absorbtion runes?? They are non-locational and non-stacking. Always has been, always will be. So right there your totals are way off. The fact that you're including dye costs are laughable as well.
They do in fact stack, and one can be applied to each piece of armor. I'd be happy to meet you in-game and show you my gladiator armor with these runes if you would like. And since runes are optional, why not include dye cost as most people will personalize their armor and save up for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Besides, 23,700g in 4 hours? I can make at least 3k in less than 15 minutes Vermin farming. It's easy as pie. That's 16 runs in 4 hours X 3k per run = 48k bare minimum. Stupidly simple farming, albeit a bit boring. So yeah, 24k in two hours.
Again, if anyone wants to prove to me that you can earn more than 1k in an explorable area these days, you're welcome to. And if you do, I will admit in this thread I was wrong.

mrvrod

Guest01

Join Date: Jul 2006

29 Jul 2006 at 09:26 - 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge Martinez
It's awesome your guild does this for members, but equipping a guild falls into the same category as dye in my opinion. Nice to have, but not necessary. Same with recruiting and retention. I can understand your points though... it may screw up the economy. At least understand that to some of us there ISN'T an economy. It's more like, "Dude, anyone got a spare Ryvers shortbow?" "No? Sweet, let's go get one."
And I do alot of that too. My eldest son runs the guild I'm in. My youngest son is also in the same guild. I have 3 friends and 2 other family members that I quest with, and am trying to get my wife hooked. But, I also farm. I farm to help my son with his guild. I farm to help my friends, family, and other guildies. And I farm so I can have some extra gold so I can help strangers from time to time who are just a little short on the cost of that armor they want. This is the way I like to play, and it isn't hurting anyone elses gameplay.

I can't stand scammers, and I can't stand real-world money for in-game items. But I don't want over-reaching changes to severely affect my gameplay. And that's what I believe is happening, and based on comments in this thread and others, it doesn't appear that I'm the only one.

arcanemacabre

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

29 Jul 2006 at 09:37 - 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvrod
They do in fact stack, and one can be applied to each piece of armor. I'd be happy to meet you in-game and show you my gladiator armor with these runes if you would like. And since runes are optional, why not include dye cost as most people will personalize their armor and save up for it.
OK, you're simply misinformed. Just having the runes in your armor doesn't exactly mean you're getting any more effect out of them than you would with just one rune. All it means is you wasted money, and are now losing out on the ability to have +1-+3 of Tactics/Strength/Weapon Att. Seriously, you shouldn't gimp yourself like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvrod
Again, if anyone wants to prove to me that you can earn more than 1k in an explorable area these days, you're welcome to. And if you do, I will admit in this thread I was wrong.
I guarantee that if you could find a solo build for an explorable area, and soloed it, you would make more than 1k for the entire zone. No doubt there. But certain areas that are easy, like the Vermin in the Skyway, you can maximize efficency with time spent.

The gold I make on a run through the vermin is not just in gold drops and item drops alone. Although that alone is well over 1k. Salvaging for iron/steel/scales is also where it's at. Just need to be a little smart about it. When salvaging for materials becomes not worth it anymore, due to low prices, then simply sell the stuff.

When you find the right build, one run can take as little as 10 minutes. Once you salvage what needs to be salvaged, you'll end up at least 3k richer in those 10 minutes.

Agreed, it may have been easier in the past to farm Griffons, and Ettins/Trolls/Minos might have given much greater rewards back then... So what? Move on, find a better spot. Not your cup of tea? Try finding out builds to take on bosses who drop greens. These Canthan greens go for quite a good chunk of dough.

I don't need to meet you in-game to show you this. Really. You can do it yourself. Like I said, if you don't know how, check out the Farming Forum, plenty of ideas there.

mrvrod

Guest01

Join Date: Jul 2006

29 Jul 2006 at 09:59 - 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
OK, you're simply misinformed. Just having the runes in your armor doesn't exactly mean you're getting any more effect out of them than you would with just one rune. All it means is you wasted money, and are now losing out on the ability to have +1-+3 of Tactics/Strength/Weapon Att. Seriously, you shouldn't gimp yourself like that.
Ok, based on what I know about these runes, the ones that are not stackable say so in their description. The superior absorption runes do not say 'not stackable' in their description so I assumed they would accumulate to a -15dmg. If I am wrong on this I will be severely pissed I wasted that gold!


Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
The gold I make on a run through the vermin is not just in gold drops and item drops alone. Although that alone is well over 1k. Salvaging for iron/steel/scales is also where it's at. Just need to be a little smart about it. When salvaging for materials becomes not worth it anymore, due to low prices, then simply sell the stuff.
And here I gotta admit I don't salvage a thing. So maybe that's where I'm missing the boat, and I appreciate the suggestion. I just don't bother with that stuff; sell any good items to players, everything else to the merchant.

Pkest

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Hooded Reavers of Eternal Life(Ankh)

R/

29 Jul 2006 at 14:34 - 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvrod
Max armor at Droks costs 12k exactly without runes or dye (yes dye is optional, but so are runes if you want to be that technical). Warrior runes of superior absorption go for about 2k each right now so 5 pieces of armor X 2k = 10k. Orange dye 140g, green dye 100g, yellow dye 100g, mixed for a goldish bronze = 340g per vial, again X 5 = 1k700g.

That brings the armors total cost to 12k + 10k + 1k700g = 23k700g

I challlenge you to show me how you can make that in 4 hours of farming!

And if they didn't nerf farming, tell me please where the Icy Dragon Swords have gone?
lol...if you are really putting 5 sup absorbtion runes in your set then you have worse problems than farming. But I'll assume you were just using that as a max cost of runes since the sup abs costs more than any other warrior sup. I know I can fully outfit a warrior with 1.5k Factions armor for 12k with runes and then whatever dyes I have on hand. (actually less since I salvage and horde materials)

I don't know what to tell you about your bad luck. I can't remember the last time I got less than 6k an hour solo farming with a lvl 20. Sorry.

edit: I just read the rest of this thread and unfortunately you've made a mistake with the sup abs. 1 gives a global -3 so you really should replace the others with more beneficial warrior runes.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

29 Jul 2006 at 15:37 - 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvrod
Ok, based on what I know about these runes, the ones that are not stackable say so in their description. The superior absorption runes do not say 'not stackable' in their description so I assumed they would accumulate to a -15dmg. If I am wrong on this I will be severely pissed I wasted that gold!
.
so that accounts for the great (temporary) superior absorb rune shortage.

people are confusing the global armor absorb nerf with a nerf of the superior runes and buying 5 per character instead of one.

you can stack a superior absorb rune with other items that give absorb protection but not with another.

you can apply them to each piece yes but you gain the benefits only from one.

you have just wasted 4 superior absorb runes

Horseman Of War

Horseman Of War

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

The Cult of Doom

P/

29 Jul 2006 at 16:24 - 51
1. Farming- how many times do you really wanna run the same pointless spawn... Ive never 'farmed' specifically and I have all the items I need... and a full set of 15k on two characters. Farming is an imbalance to the economy... Im glad its being dealt with like this.

2. Build Nerfs- GOOD!!!!! Maybe now people will make up their own rather than clone after clone after clone of Touch Rangers, SS Necros, 55 farmers, etc etc etc... Its rediculous that some people are so arrogant (and non-imaginative!) to look at any "non-tested-perfect" builds with such disregard.
This keeps the game from getting stagnant.

3. MAJORITY???? COME ON MAN!!! The Majority is not wasting their time complaining on forums or whining to NC/Anet. THE MAJORITY is playing the game... Any time someone says "blah everyone wants blah" i look at the post and think, "wow that person is a prideful idiot- who only seeks to bring others down"

4. Locked doors? GOOD!!! Now not just ANY OLD NOOB can walk around in Grotto armor at level 5. That is a diss on the game and the people who actually take PRIDE in what theyve ACCOMPLISHED for THEMSELVES. I hope they DO lock some doors in Prophecies!!!

5. After reading some of these posts, I am that much more confident that the MAJORITY of HALFWAY DECENT PLAYERS do not come to these forums. This thread is a disgrace.

6. If you dont like it, go play some other game. We dont need you.


That is my rant for today. Thank you... Ill be here all week.

Horseman Of War

Horseman Of War

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

The Cult of Doom

P/

29 Jul 2006 at 16:30 - 52
OK, sorry for the double post....


But who was actually stupid enough to buy 5 sup ab runes?

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

29 Jul 2006 at 16:45 - 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseman Of War
OK, sorry for the double post....


But who was actually stupid enough to buy 5 sup ab runes?
considering that the rune merchant has been out since the armor fix and superior absorb runes are selling player to player for 6-10k i would say quite a few people including the OP who admitted doing just that

frickett

frickett

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Shinigami Keys [SHIN]

R/Mo

29 Jul 2006 at 17:06 - 54
I want to cap trappers focus for my ranger, But i really dont want to have to fight my way through the city again, Stupid locked gates. LOL Ill get there someday.

Ailyrr Merlena

Ailyrr Merlena

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

VA

E/N

29 Jul 2006 at 17:52 - 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvrod
I don't know about you, but unless you have OCD most people don't want to do the same, EXACT thing over six to ten times for each of our characters!
Even the one person I know who self-admits that he has MAJOR OCD (he had to have ALL the mission/bonuses in Tyria completed, all skills capped on his main character -and I mean ALL- and every quest completed BEFORE the release of Factions) doesn't like to have to complete the entire game with his other characters before he can get to the "good stuff" in Factions.

Quince

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

E/N

30 Jul 2006 at 05:47 - 56
you might be right.... i might be a bit jelous with this whole buisness... but i'm not saying eliminate farming.... just make it pay a bit less. people can still all afford the normal 1.5k armor just not the 15k.... it would keep things balanced. those players who earned the armor keep it... those who want higher armor without having to wait whole game can get it... and no player would have to have a "money making" char just to afford the items they can't get themselves for lack of time(working on that green fire staff.... and some mesmer stuff.... man this is rough). I would think this would make everyone happy.... or am i wrong? of course i still support runners cause they make the game not so boring.... like fun excentric cab drivers.... good times.

mrvrod

Guest01

Join Date: Jul 2006

30 Jul 2006 at 19:28 - 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quince
you might be right.... i might be a bit jelous with this whole buisness... but i'm not saying eliminate farming.... just make it pay a bit less. people can still all afford the normal 1.5k armor just not the 15k.... it would keep things balanced. those players who earned the armor keep it... those who want higher armor without having to wait whole game can get it... and no player would have to have a "money making" char just to afford the items they can't get themselves for lack of time(working on that green fire staff.... and some mesmer stuff.... man this is rough). I would think this would make everyone happy.... or am i wrong? of course i still support runners cause they make the game not so boring.... like fun excentric cab drivers.... good times.
And I understand the pride of gaining something the hard way and feeling a little short-changed that someone got a run to get it when they didn't really deserve it. But that's a blight on their play and not yours. It doesn't take away from your accomplishment.

And if they're that bad of a player, even high armor isn't going to help them earn a title! Oh, and I don't mind if areas are a little less profitable than it used to be, but some areas are down right anemic! Maybe it's all the bot's fault, maybe ncsoft had no other choice, but that's why I started this thread. Like I said in the beginning, I welcome ALL intelligent discussion on this topic. Thats why I only respond to the intelligent arguments.

And, not specifically to you, I really do appreciate all the people who let me know about my sup absorp mistake without calling me an idiot. I googled it and found I was wrong. I had to do a bit more farming, but was able to re-purchase 4 pieces of armor to add different runes to. Luckily I was able to salvage all four runes from the old armor (whew).

mrvrod

Guest01

Join Date: Jul 2006

30 Jul 2006 at 19:37 - 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailyrr Merlena
Even the one person I know who self-admits that he has MAJOR OCD (he had to have ALL the mission/bonuses in Tyria completed, all skills capped on his main character -and I mean ALL- and every quest completed BEFORE the release of Factions) doesn't like to have to complete the entire game with his other characters before he can get to the "good stuff" in Factions.
That's my point exactly! There may be runners that are charging for services, but making that run super hard without using the cookie-cutter builds everyone is so against, hurts long time player too.

Off the topic of your reply. So everybody understands this, I'm not using some 55 or SS build. I have a Warrior/Elementalist, Fire=10, Strength=11, Swordsmanship=10, Tactics=9 (haven't done the Droks extra 15 attrib quest yet). My health is 503, Energy 28. I wanted a BattleMage to fit my p&p D&D style of gameplay.

mrvrod

Guest01

Join Date: Jul 2006

30 Jul 2006 at 19:44 - 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pkest
edit: I just read the rest of this thread and unfortunately you've made a mistake with the sup abs. 1 gives a global -3 so you really should replace the others with more beneficial warrior runes.
I know, ubernoob mistake. I have to admit I made it

I should have known better but I really did figure that since other runes said not stackable, the runes that didn't say that were. I've been playing for over 5 months now so I'm not new to the game, although obviously I still make mistakes.

And I really do love the game. I swear, it's the closest I've ever felt to the p&p D&D experience I had growing up.