make IWAY "exploit" dead bodies
aeronox
like necromancer skills, the iway skill can only be used once per corpse. it could also reduce effectiveness of order necros combined with IWAY teams. IWAY needs to be changed... tombs is ridiculous
Elena
umh no ? corpse exploiting is necro and should stay necro
-Loki-
How about not count exploited corpses?
Victory Gaint
ummm NO....we dont need more IWAY.....its getting really repetetive and seeing as America can make nuthing other than ranger spike and IWAY...tombs suck (nuthing to do with subject)
fallot
Isnt anyone getting what he is saying ? Lets say you have 2 dead allies in the area, you use IWAY and get the boost. After it expires, if you use IWAY near those two dead allies again, there will be no benefit (except which you get from subsequent allied deaths). The necros can still exploit the corpse.
Everything to do with the subject.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Victory Gaint
tombs suck (nuthing to do with subject)
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by aeronox
IWAY needs to be changed... tombs is ridiculous
|
Kool Pajamas
You cant do that without the other team losing it too.
SirJackassIII
So you're saying making IWAY another form of Corpse exploit, different from total Corpse Exploit?
While that may seem a good idea, it's far too late for that already. A lot of IWAY players grinded their way to rank 6, making rank 3 pretty much equal to unranked. And while rank means absolutely NOTHING, there are still a great number of players who's first question is "Rank?"
New players have a really hard time getting started in Tombs, and IWAY is pretty much all they can play.
I say, leave IWAY alone, enough ways to beat it. Who cares if you meet them every round? You just beat them every round and get more fame for yourself, and your precious Rank.
Also, If they exploit all dead corpses (6 pets + 2 necros) they still have 80 seconds of boost. If they're not successful in taking out the other team in that time, thet won't.
While that may seem a good idea, it's far too late for that already. A lot of IWAY players grinded their way to rank 6, making rank 3 pretty much equal to unranked. And while rank means absolutely NOTHING, there are still a great number of players who's first question is "Rank?"
New players have a really hard time getting started in Tombs, and IWAY is pretty much all they can play.
I say, leave IWAY alone, enough ways to beat it. Who cares if you meet them every round? You just beat them every round and get more fame for yourself, and your precious Rank.
Also, If they exploit all dead corpses (6 pets + 2 necros) they still have 80 seconds of boost. If they're not successful in taking out the other team in that time, thet won't.
Klmpee
/signed.
except necros would still be able to use corpse..
the thing is all the matches ive done in tombs is iway.. i mean its so retarded when u come up agianst 4 iway teams in a row..its just making me so mad now that they wouldnt do something about it.
except necros would still be able to use corpse..
the thing is all the matches ive done in tombs is iway.. i mean its so retarded when u come up agianst 4 iway teams in a row..its just making me so mad now that they wouldnt do something about it.
Farin
I'm pretty sure it's not IWAY itself what helps that build. I'm pretty sure IWAY teams would do pretty well without it. It's not a terrible build, it wouldn't win otherwise. It's just too easy, that's it. Sure you can roll through it with many things but IWAY teams are just too easy compared to all those other builds, that's what wins games for it.
On topic: I think it would be good if it read something like: "For every Non-Exploited corpse you bla bla bla..."
On topic: I think it would be good if it read something like: "For every Non-Exploited corpse you bla bla bla..."
Guardian of the Light
You need to nerf it a different way instead I perpose to strengthen IWAY's weakens liek making soothing images reset Adral to 0 and other anti-IWAY thing so groups can take it to defeat IWAY and still IWAYers can still farm fame....kind of...
I've seen IWAY overrun their weaknesses. THAT doesn't seem fair to me.
I've seen IWAY overrun their weaknesses. THAT doesn't seem fair to me.
Metallica1026
hte IWAY build isn't that complex.... yea it gets annoying to see the same build 3 or 4 times in a row.... but thats y it is so useful... say a new player goes 2 tombs and picks up grp/ skillz 4 iway... wam now he is a decent player and he got decent fame.... IWAY is more like a training build... its a good way 2 get faction and fame.... but u take out a key player and the build is finished....
Farin
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Metallica1026
say a new player goes 2 tombs and picks up grp/ skillz 4 iway... wam now he is a decent player and he got decent fame.... IWAY is more like a training build...
|
No, he's not a decent player at all. In fact, most new players who decide to join these "IWAY Groups" don't even know what they're doing at all so they just press C+Spacebar and start attacking like an idiot even if there's payback hexes on yourself. Yes he got fame, but that means nothing. I've met players who are pretty good at tombs and plain suck at GvG.
derrtyboy69
Nerf IWAY: put the area of effect back to what it once was: the aggro circle. Done.
I have nothing against IWAY, and play it often. The thing i love about IWAY is you can easily get a group in 10-20 minutes. Before IWAY, i sat around for up to 3 hours while my group formed and coordinated itself (although i did hold halls with these groups :/) But i think its good that there is a way for someone to start playing pvp very quickly, not sitting around all day.
I have nothing against IWAY, and play it often. The thing i love about IWAY is you can easily get a group in 10-20 minutes. Before IWAY, i sat around for up to 3 hours while my group formed and coordinated itself (although i did hold halls with these groups :/) But i think its good that there is a way for someone to start playing pvp very quickly, not sitting around all day.
Como Fort
IWAY is the reason I have quit Guildwars for the time being. I'm waiting on a nerf so I don't have to lose to IGAY on a relic run map.
Sinjin
IWAY is effective: it wins, don't have to be very coordinated (eg: no voice comm), and you can form a group quickly.
I dont like IWAY (either playing it or playing against it) because 50% or more of teams are IWAY now. It's annoying to play against the same build over and over again.
But another problem is that players without much skill are getting to rank3 by iway fame farming. I know a couple rank3 guys who aren't skilled at all - but they basically farmed 1 or 2 fame at a time till they hit r3. It's sad. We have a rank 1 mesmer in our guild - and he's one of the better GW players I've seen. It's sad that some people determine skill solely by rank. I look at these guys that earned r3 by W/R fame farming - and when they try to play any other profession, they're terrible. I'd take a R2 mesmer or monk over a r3 W/R.
And that's why I hate IWAY too - because it ruined the rank/fame system. imo, it's the single worst thing to happen to gw.
I dont like IWAY (either playing it or playing against it) because 50% or more of teams are IWAY now. It's annoying to play against the same build over and over again.
But another problem is that players without much skill are getting to rank3 by iway fame farming. I know a couple rank3 guys who aren't skilled at all - but they basically farmed 1 or 2 fame at a time till they hit r3. It's sad. We have a rank 1 mesmer in our guild - and he's one of the better GW players I've seen. It's sad that some people determine skill solely by rank. I look at these guys that earned r3 by W/R fame farming - and when they try to play any other profession, they're terrible. I'd take a R2 mesmer or monk over a r3 W/R.
And that's why I hate IWAY too - because it ruined the rank/fame system. imo, it's the single worst thing to happen to gw.
Como Fort
Too true. New PvP players these days have it too easy. Hardly any of them seem to hold any skill and the whole of the upper PvP community will be W/R's who grinded their way up. This is why GvG is so more popular these days.
Viruzzz
just put a limiter on IWAY. like say 4 dead bodies. and teammates. and have it give less armor. (when you be very angry you no think about what people do to you)
problem solved. they wanna use iway they die faster.
edit: oh and if you want to shut Iway down. theres a nice monk elite called Amity. like an AOE pacifism(ends if they take damage). do that and kill their support. watch them cry!
problem solved. they wanna use iway they die faster.
edit: oh and if you want to shut Iway down. theres a nice monk elite called Amity. like an AOE pacifism(ends if they take damage). do that and kill their support. watch them cry!
Guardian of the Light
Also just because IWAY is from the skill IWAY doesn't mean if you nerf it the skill IWAY it will fall.
IWAY's true power comes from its agressiveness and its sigs and many other things the skill IWAY doesn't really have a big role actually. This nerf will do nothing probably.
IWAY's true power comes from its agressiveness and its sigs and many other things the skill IWAY doesn't really have a big role actually. This nerf will do nothing probably.
awesome sauce
I have a feeling that IWAY will be nurfed soon anyways. I think the only reason they limited skill balance changes over the last 3 months was because of the GW world championship. They didn't want to hurt a top-ranked guild's effectiveness by nerfing skills
Legendary Necromancer
Bleugh, leave corpse using to the necromancers. I think IWAY should be kept as it is. Cast SS and such and pretty much easy victory.
Mysterial
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
Also just because IWAY is from the skill IWAY doesn't mean if you nerf it the skill IWAY it will fall.
IWAY's true power comes from its agressiveness and its sigs and many other things the skill IWAY doesn't really have a big role actually. This nerf will do nothing probably. |
If you want to nerf the IWAY build, nerf Orders or nerf Resurrection Signet. I've been praying for the latter for months.
Guardian of the Light
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mysterial
Absolutely right. The IWAY skill itself isn't that powerful - if it was, the teams would still have 6 or 7 W/R instead of the current evolution of removing two of them for trappers. What *is* powerful is the orders, and the fact that unlike most monk teams where monks don't carry resurrection signets or are simply dead first so they can't, all 8 party members in an IWAY team can carry resurrection signet and they all have a pretty equal opportunity to use it.
If you want to nerf the IWAY build, nerf Orders or nerf Resurrection Signet. I've been praying for the latter for months. |
Kool Pajamas
That would be horrible
Farin
It really would.
dbgtboy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
What could weaken IWAY just enough is if you made it so Res Sig don't recharge witha morale boost
|
Mysterial
All you really need to do is make Resurrection Signet give only 50% health. That forces monks to waste additional energy and time to heal up the rest of the way or risk the target immediately being spiked back down, and IWAY just has to suck it up since they have no immediate healing skills.
Excite X
Just make IWAY only count for party members.. Not allies.
GeneralThierry
The Tombs personally makes me a bit angry. I find that you can't get into a good group unless you are a rank 3 or above. That makes people resort to IWAY. I don't resort to it at all because its really cheap and i don't learn anything except to use IWAY when the time is right. I wish though higher ranking players would take more inexperience players under their wing, or at least give them a chance. Right now its a viceous circle, you can't get into a good group, but you can't gain rank to get into a good group because nobody wants you if you are new. Until this changes, I refuse to play the Tombs.
Lord Of Losers
what the guy above me said.
Josh
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Como Fort
IWAY is the reason I have quit Guildwars for the time being. I'm waiting on a nerf so I don't have to lose to IGAY on a relic run map.
|
Don't be so stupid, and temporarily quitting over it as well, you really are stupid.
Sorry, but you honestly, just are.
Snow2c
lol, what is iway...?
Josh
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Snow2c
lol, what is iway...?
|
"I Will Avenge You!"
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 0
Recharge Time: 45
For each dead ally in the area, you gain 10 seconds of Health regeneration +3...6 and your attack speed increases by 33%.
Quote:
|
The Team Build This build is mainly used in the Tomb of the Primeval Kings , but is sometimes used in Guild versus Guild IWAY is a name of a team build that relies heavily on the use of "I will avenge you!" in combination with pets. The warriors in IWAY are rarely anything other than Warrior/Rangers. The trick is that "I Will Avenge You!" works for pets too. IWAY will give the warriors an attack and healing boost for each dead pet within a large area. Having several dead pets nearby is enough to maintain a user's IWAY boost indefinitely. Basics * A group of Warrior Rangers with Axes and Pets, wearing Gladiator's Armor with any of the other types of armor on hands and feet. The usual IWAY warrior build uses Eviscerate, Executioner's Strike, Disrupting Chop, "I Will Avenge You!", Cyclone Axe, and sometimes Warrior's Cunning * One Primary Necromancer ("Orders Necro"), mainly secondary Monk, with high Blood Magic. The Orders Necro is equipped with Order of Pain, Order of the Vampire, Blood Renewal, and Life Siphon. * A Necro/Ele ("Tainted Necro") with Tainted Flesh, Well of the Profane, Maelstrom, Meteor Shower, Windborne Speed, and Consume Corpse. * Spirits: * Winnowing, usually taken by a trapper. * Predatory Season, always equipped by an IWAY Warrior. * Edge of Extinction, usually taken by an IWAY Warrior. * Nature's Renewal, generally used by a trapper. o Don't use against other IWAY teams. * A group will almost always have a Warrior/Ranger with Sprint for Altar and Relic capturing maps. It's a good idea for this person to take Distracting Blow incase another Ghostly hero has made it onto the Altar first. * Teams will usually take two trappers (R/Me). These trappers will have Spike Trap, Flame Trap, Barbed Trap, Dust Trap, Mantra of Resolve and one spirit. * Pet Skills: Revive Animal (Non-fame-farming IWAY teams will want to take this for maps with more than one team, to easily transport pets to other parts of the map and use their bodies for IWAY and corpse controll skills) and Charm Animal. * Every Warrior Ranger should have a pet and a Longbow. How it works Most teams will start out placing Predatory Season and Winnowing within range of where the team will be fighting. If the enemy team is not IWAY, a trapper will drop Nature's Renewal to slow down enenmy enchantment and hex casting. The IWAY team will then use bows on the enemy team to send their pets at them, setting off traps and giving players who don't know how to correctly counter them the opportunity to kill the pets so that they may be made into wells and such. After the traps are clear, the W/Rs and trappers rush in while the Tainted Necromancer uses Maelstrom on the enemy team. The Orders Necromaner stands back and casts Order of the Vampire and Order of Pain to boost the team's health and attack. On Altar Capturing maps, the Sprinting warrior will take the Ghostly Hero. When the doors open, the Tainted Necromancer will place Windborne Speed on the Ghostly Hero to make it run as fast as the sprinter. On "Relic Runs," the team's trappers will trap their Relic. Most IWAY teams defend on 'Relic Runs'. After defeating most of the enemy team, the Sprinter and Tainted Necromancer will push ahead, taking the relic and applying Windborne Speed to him to make him run as fast as possible (The relic reduces the holder's running speed by around 50-75%) Fame Farming The IWAY build was not meant to take and hold the Hall of Heroes, but to gain quick faction for those using the build. This is mainly because IWAY is so quick to put together and so easy to understand and use. Another version of Fame Farming is to win the first 3 maps and then leave, regroup, and do it again, fighting mostly inexperienced teams and gaining a 6 Fame for 25 minutes or less of play. Whether this is actually more effective than playing the normal way, or not, is a matter of dispute. Counters Several tactics that work against warriors and groups of warriors will still be effective counters against IWAY teams, including: * Protective enchantments like Aegis and Healing Seed. Note, however, that if the IWAY team has a chance to put Well of Profane up, taking these skills will be in vain. * Use the corpses before the IWAY necromancer can. This can be best done with a Mesmer/Necromancer. * Use Hexes like Shadow of Fear, Spiteful Spirit, Blurred Vision, Thunderclap Fevered Dreams ... that are effective against the clumps of warriors. * Traps are very effective against IWAY, but beware, most will have trappers aswell. Full trapper teams are usually massacred by IWAY. * Cause blindness and weakness. * The Orders Necromancer is the softest target in an IWAY team, go for him and you can greatly reduce their ability to heal or damage. A warrior, enchantment stripper, or ranger can easily take these out. * Staying close, a ball, is a bad idea unless you can interrupt Maelstrom and keep their trappers with low energy. Some IWAY warriors will also carry Cyclone Axe to deal with balls and groups that stay together. * Simply avoid killing all the IWAY pets at once to decrease the bonus warriors get from "I will avenge you!". Attack the pets last. * Drop a Greater Conflagration nature ritual to totally negate the damage boost from Order of Pain and Order of the Vampire. * Ward Against Melee, Ward Against Foes, and other slow downs greatly reduce the effectiveness of warriors. * Frozen Soil greatly hinders most IWAY teams. History For quite awhile, IWAY consisted completely of 6 W/Rs, 1 Tainted Necromancer, and 1 Orders Necromancer. The September 29th, 2005 update reduced the maximum attack speed bonus to 33%, down from 50%, slightly reducing the effectiveness of the IWAY build. Modifications "Trapway" is a refinement of IWAY, consisting of 2 Trappers, 4 W/R, 1 Orders, 1 Tainted build. There have been many modifications of the IWAY build since its creation. Some have ignored the Necromancers, using two Elementalist/Monks with Heal Party, protection Monks, Elementalist/Mesmer fire "nukers", Elementalists with Wards, and so on. Few of these see use for very long. Though the use of a protection monk was once picking up popularity, most players abandoned this for the "Trapway". Note: Like any very popular build this build is being frowned upon by many players as being "overused" and "taking no skill". |
Lambentviper
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Como Fort
IWAY is the reason I have quit Guildwars for the time being. I'm waiting on a nerf so I don't have to lose to IGAY on a relic run map.
|
im sure you didnt spend a good $50 so you can sit around and whine until you get your way.
--but enough with being mean---
I myself have never played against or in an IWAY group and would like to just for the experience. I currently have 4 fame and fame doesnt mean anything to me, i would just like to see what makes this so controversial for myself.
and i agree with the quote up above^^
no matter what the build is as long as its popular people will throw it off as "no skill needed" well, skill IS needed to avoid the builds and skills that slow IWAY builds down. Its not like new players start off with skills like Order of Pain and Order of the Vampire. They dont start off we IWAY either so somewhere along the line they must unlock these using what? THEIR SKILL
Ipse_Dixit
actually, it's not that hard to work up the nessasary faction to unlock the skills in the competition arena, then move to the tombs with all. A bad player on a couple good teams could work up 3000 in less than 2 hours of playing; that's not very long to unlock only the nessasary skills to play an IWAY character. I also think that the main "no skill" aurgument (at least from my point of veiw) is more about the W/R than the necros....
Aggro Monkey
As a player that hates IWAY, I do get upset going up against it constantly but when you have so many rank RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs in the game it's hard for any new Tombs player to get into a good pug so they run IWAY until rank 3 so they can run with better non IWAY pugs, also that IWAY balances Tombs out so 1 certain build can't take and hold Halls all day whenever they want.
aeronox
I posted the OP without knowing the structure and operation of an IWAY team.
I have done what many have described; I have played an Order Nec because:
a) It's easy to get into a team.
b) I get fame.
c) Most other teams want ranked players.
And I figured that until they change it, why not benefit from the fame? My favourite class, Mesmer, rarely gets in a group, ~especially~ if I'm not R3+ or R6+! Perhaps if everyone used IWAY, then they'd have to change it, and my life would be happier. I haven't been around PvP long enough to compare with other builds I've heard, like Spirit spamming, but was it ever as... nooblish as IWAY?
I now see that changing the IWAY skill as I suggested isn't the answer.
I believe it's not right that one team build, which is button-mash easy to play, should make up 50%+ of Tombs. Why should every team have to assess their effectiveness against IWAY, or die? Ofc you'll say a team should assess their vulnerability to every other build, but that IWAY has such a hold on our mode of play, is a shame. It's not right that 8 skilled people usually lose to 8 non-skilled people using a cookie cutter build. I understand there will always be a more popular build, an effective one, but IWAY is... blargh.
I have done what many have described; I have played an Order Nec because:
a) It's easy to get into a team.
b) I get fame.
c) Most other teams want ranked players.
And I figured that until they change it, why not benefit from the fame? My favourite class, Mesmer, rarely gets in a group, ~especially~ if I'm not R3+ or R6+! Perhaps if everyone used IWAY, then they'd have to change it, and my life would be happier. I haven't been around PvP long enough to compare with other builds I've heard, like Spirit spamming, but was it ever as... nooblish as IWAY?
I now see that changing the IWAY skill as I suggested isn't the answer.
I believe it's not right that one team build, which is button-mash easy to play, should make up 50%+ of Tombs. Why should every team have to assess their effectiveness against IWAY, or die? Ofc you'll say a team should assess their vulnerability to every other build, but that IWAY has such a hold on our mode of play, is a shame. It's not right that 8 skilled people usually lose to 8 non-skilled people using a cookie cutter build. I understand there will always be a more popular build, an effective one, but IWAY is... blargh.
fiery
im confused.. people talk about "good players" not being able to get into a ranked group.. if your a "good player" shouldnt you already have the rank to enter the group? or your saying "good player" as good in PVE and getting into PVP its a whole new style and the "good player" is now mediorcre...or the PVP player is just good and cant get into a ranked group.
but its kewl the suggestion to make IWAY a corpse skill.
but its kewl the suggestion to make IWAY a corpse skill.
Deathqueen
IWAY is about AVENGING dead corpses not exploiting them like some necrophiliac. IWAY is fine just like it is. Learn how to deal with it. And besides Gaile already said it will be AFTER GWWC before anymore updates/nerfings willl happen. So, you're rather stuck with IWAY until at least then and probably even after since it's not that hard to handle.
tafy69
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Deathqueen
IWAY is fine just like it is. Learn how to deal with it. And besides Gaile already said it will be AFTER GWWC before anymore updates/nerfings willl happen. So, you're rather stuck with IWAY until at least then and probably even after since it's not that hard to handle.
|
LightningHell
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tafy69
Yeah a warrior with a 10 energy skill that gives +6 Health regen and 33% faster attack speed for over a minute is not broken.....
|