Avatar of Grenth
Whenever you use an attack skill, you also remove an enchant from target foe and deal cold damage.
It's late, and I'm sleepy... I'm probably missing or forgetting something..
But this avatar is quite disturbing to me. Basically it looks like the end of any monks using enchants, and especially boon/prot.
I cant imagine surviving as a monk, not to mention healing any of my teammates, when a crazed dervish in grenth's form comes up to me and starts spamming some fast cast skill removing my enchants faster than I can cast them... What, oh what are monks going to do???
Avatar of Grenth. The end of monks?
ibex333
twicky_kid
Sythe skills are very conditional. Unless you use another type of weapon its not that strong.
I expect the avatars that trigger when using a skill to be changed to sythe attacks only.
I expect the avatars that trigger when using a skill to be changed to sythe attacks only.
TwilightOblivion
I dunno, but it could be really devistating if they comboed it with a fast weapon like daggers or something.
Mr Slashalot
well its say attack skill and i hate to give people ideas but repeating strike or i seen a few people spamming exhausting assasult.
i think avater are just there to ruin builds, look at Melandru what the hell are trapper going to do with that and if you add a wild blow and leaves trappers with no offence or defence
i think avater are just there to ruin builds, look at Melandru what the hell are trapper going to do with that and if you add a wild blow and leaves trappers with no offence or defence
Khift
With the 10 second recharge on Boon to keep it in check with Mysticism... yeah, Avatar of Grenth could very well signal the end of Boonprot.
prodigy ming
Who does the Dervish worship anyways? Why are the avatars of all the different gods giving them aid? I think instead of giving them these avatars... the avatars should be a elite skill for their respective profession.
Kijik Oni Hanryuu
^^ huh?? anyway, yah the dervish are a nerfbat in themselves, like melandru avatar there goes the AoD combo..
the one main weakness of dervishes is interrupts tho, interupt their forms and their main enchants like intervention and they are done.
the one main weakness of dervishes is interrupts tho, interupt their forms and their main enchants like intervention and they are done.
Sli Ander
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Originally Posted by Mr Slashalot
i think avater are just there to ruin builds
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prodigy ming
While its good to be original, I think its good that premade wagon of death and destruction exists so people who lack the time/braincells/effort can remain competitive. While those that truely are original can smile at themselves and know they are speical : )
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by prodigy ming
Who does the Dervish worship anyways? Why are the avatars of all the different gods giving them aid? I think instead of giving them these avatars... the avatars should be a elite skill for their respective profession.
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i dont think your idea of avatars on respective professions any good, because its obvious that the avatars are attack based (not spell based) forms.
prodigy ming
ya i know my suggestions suck. it was bascially another rant to nerf the dervish
Omega X
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Originally Posted by prodigy ming
ya i know my suggestions suck. it was bascially another rant to nerf the dervish
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mega_jamie
its a well known fact (by me) that Ritus Spirit Lord Builds are effectively a boon/prot for your entire team. People will begin to look at Spirits / calls for protection rather than monk stuff, and even then a decent mesmer cna keep you shut down enough to save most prot enchants
NinjaKai
Like it says target foe. I don't think the effect is applied to other enemies that get caught by your sycthe for example.
Underworld Calling
There are a lot of healing skills out there that aren't enchantments....
I agree that there are alot of things to be nerfed, and yes I think that they sould nerf them (before nightfall).
It'll be interesting to see how monks will work after the release of nightfall, or if another profession will be able to heal too.
/wait
I agree that there are alot of things to be nerfed, and yes I think that they sould nerf them (before nightfall).
It'll be interesting to see how monks will work after the release of nightfall, or if another profession will be able to heal too.
/wait
lightblade
Oh...I'm thinking Avatar of Grenth with dagger attacks! Strips enchantments like XXXX. dead!
Venice Queen
There will never be an "end" to monks.
merdle
are we worried about monks in RA here or what people?
any monk should be able to kite and escape from a AoG while being healed by the other monk in their party and trying to keep their enchants up. Not to mention that if a monk has other enchants on themselves (guardian, prot spirits, RoF) those will get stripped way before boon prot does.
45 seconds later, the dervish changes back and can't change back for 120 seconds.
I think we'll be all right. lol
any monk should be able to kite and escape from a AoG while being healed by the other monk in their party and trying to keep their enchants up. Not to mention that if a monk has other enchants on themselves (guardian, prot spirits, RoF) those will get stripped way before boon prot does.
45 seconds later, the dervish changes back and can't change back for 120 seconds.
I think we'll be all right. lol
TheMosesPHD
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Originally Posted by Khift
With the 10 second recharge on Boon to keep it in check with Mysticism... yeah, Avatar of Grenth could very well signal the end of Boonprot.
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@ the comment about other classes healing.
Both new classes have some random healing spells. The Dervish can do some great healing with Imbue Health (I think that's the name it was). It's Mysticism and it did about 260+ healing depending. I don't remember what the downside was, it might've been it removes an enchant or something, (which is just standard for a Dervish) but it costs 10 nrg and has a 1/4 cast, like Infuse Health, without the sacrifice of half your health. The recharge though I can't remember...but it's not much and recharges in plenty of time to get back before the next wave of a spike comes around.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Evasion, blind, blocking. Not to mention every build isn't gonna have room for a random avatar that works on and off every other minute.
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LifeInfusion
Tell me, how is it different from Order of Apostasy with an assassin in your team? I know it is 25 energy, but you have to put it into perspective.
Khift
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Evasion, blind, blocking.
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AoG > Guardian.
Monks don't use evasion stances. No room.
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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Tell me, how is it different from Order of Apostasy with an assassin in your team? I know it is 25 energy, but you have to put it into perspective.
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Kai Nui
Oh wow awesome, Order of Apostasy died as a 4 month old newborn baby.
Nothing like a 25 energy spell that hurts you for damage and lasts only 5 seconds to be killed by an incredibly ass hole skill like this. Seriously Anet has to have ass holes doing this shit to us.
Nothing like a 25 energy spell that hurts you for damage and lasts only 5 seconds to be killed by an incredibly ass hole skill like this. Seriously Anet has to have ass holes doing this shit to us.
Terra Xin
Keep in mind that when a form ends, you are interrupted quite heavily. It doesn't take much skill to kite the dervish for 48 seconds. The only trouble I have is with its skill description, and the dervishes inherent ability to strike adjacent foes.
It is possible to make the separation between 'target foe' and 'adjacent foes' so if you were aiming for a target, then any other foe you strike will be unaffected.
Another problem with this skill is found in a possible flaw in which I havent been able to test. By sole definition, if you use an attack skill, an enchantment is removed from target foe, this doesnt mean that the attack skill needs to be used to 'hit' the target, it just requires you to use it.
It is possible to make the separation between 'target foe' and 'adjacent foes' so if you were aiming for a target, then any other foe you strike will be unaffected.
Another problem with this skill is found in a possible flaw in which I havent been able to test. By sole definition, if you use an attack skill, an enchantment is removed from target foe, this doesnt mean that the attack skill needs to be used to 'hit' the target, it just requires you to use it.
Elena
remember in MOST situations you have team members to help you out have youre friendly aeromancer keep that dervish blind for the duration of his enchant and bam no enhant strips then all /point and /laugh 
Dobermann
Yes!! i love u ANet Avatar Of Grenth has finished of monks, so NO MORE DUAL SMITE
Spura
Blinding and kiting doesn't stop warriors from getting attacks in, so why shoudl it stop dervish?
Terra Xin
Because if you dont kite and blind, you'll die faster. Of course the warrior will get a few attacks in, but at least he'll be wasting his time chasing you.
Spura
So you'll run and every time you'll stop to cast, your boon goes bye bye and you'll have to keep paying for that cost. Also like warrior, dervish can use speed stances or get help from team, say a water ele. In that case I don't see your enchants staying on much.
Lordhelmos
Dervish are disturbing altogether... AoE attacks that strip and deal big damage? What about elementalists and other classes that are completely dependent on enchantments? Seriously Eles and caster were seriously shafted during the Nightfall beta. I hope eles especially get a massive boost for their new skills. At this rate, the 2 new classes are going to boot them out of PVP entirely. Now seriously, theres a psychotic dervishing spinning around a giant scythe thats raking everything around him, stripping enchantments on each hit, and using an avatar form with some huge bonus... on top of that lets not forget the monk behind him spamming air of enchantment and zealots fire..
Like im REALLY going to run up to him and use starburst? Oh wait hes coming this way, armor of earth... oh wait forgot, that doesn't work either. And lets not forget the elemental damage from junk like dust shroud and AoE conditions...
So really, what's an ele going to do in PvP now?
Like im REALLY going to run up to him and use starburst? Oh wait hes coming this way, armor of earth... oh wait forgot, that doesn't work either. And lets not forget the elemental damage from junk like dust shroud and AoE conditions...
So really, what's an ele going to do in PvP now?
Horseman Of War
whaaaaa i cant maintain my enchantments whaaaaaaaa
How about you just run away? Its about time they did something to counter the enchant-monks anyways.
if you ever fought a good pvp mesmer or necro youd already know about enchantment removal- my mesmer is a monk-killer... and I dont need a dervish to do that.
Another thing- The FORM elites are for mystic attribute, meaning that unless you are a primary dervish, you wont be using them.
Not to mention, if your team begins to focus their fire on Grenths Av.- it will be forced to go defensive, and will not be able to use attack skill spams to rob you of your 4 little buffs. I played Avatar of Grenth on the PvP preview weekend, and that was the counter that i encountered the most when i went enchantment-reaping.
How about you just run away? Its about time they did something to counter the enchant-monks anyways.
if you ever fought a good pvp mesmer or necro youd already know about enchantment removal- my mesmer is a monk-killer... and I dont need a dervish to do that.
Another thing- The FORM elites are for mystic attribute, meaning that unless you are a primary dervish, you wont be using them.
Not to mention, if your team begins to focus their fire on Grenths Av.- it will be forced to go defensive, and will not be able to use attack skill spams to rob you of your 4 little buffs. I played Avatar of Grenth on the PvP preview weekend, and that was the counter that i encountered the most when i went enchantment-reaping.
Horseman Of War
um btw.... if you dont like the dervish, use the well of profane.
dervishes are weak- and itll only take a few weeks of Nightfall for people to realize this.
empathy, cripple/slow, blind- you can counter them the same as a warrior, or counter them the same as a caster-> there are SO MANY *MORE* ways to counter a dervish than any other class.
dervishes are weak- and itll only take a few weeks of Nightfall for people to realize this.
empathy, cripple/slow, blind- you can counter them the same as a warrior, or counter them the same as a caster-> there are SO MANY *MORE* ways to counter a dervish than any other class.
Linkusmax
Cripshot Rangers and Energizing Winds Fire Elementalists are both great against dervishes. So yeah wee!
natus
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Originally Posted by Horseman Of War
um btw.... if you dont like the dervish, use the well of profane.
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Well of the profane will only stop people from casting enchants that targets other allies/yourself, dervish enchants doesn't target the dervish, they're just cast, so Profane doesn't work.
It's the same with Shadow Shroud, they can cast right through it.
This was tested during the pvp weekend, might be changed when the acrual game comes out, though.
gene terrodon
One thing everyone is forgetting...Dervish arnor is only 70.
So a spike will drop them pretty easily.
Not to mention the points made by Horseman.
If you have three or more people around a Dervish, it's more than likely they are Melee (War, Sins) - Yeah strip an enchant...but your dead.
If a Dervish makes a bee line for your Monk, all it takes is for your Tank to get on him and a caster to spike him...DEAD.
With the avatar skills, kiting and some body blocking will counter this and for 2 minutes (120s) the dervish is a pin cushion...DEAD
While the dervish has powerful attacks, they lack in defense, and IMHO will be 1st target of melee in battles to prevent Enchant strips.
I see the Dervish being treated like Sins in PvE...People trying to tank with 70AL and dying...who wants that on their team.
In PvP, they will be standard on alot of teams, but the perception that they are all powerful in a mis-conception.
Remember...Defense wins championships.
So a spike will drop them pretty easily.
Not to mention the points made by Horseman.
If you have three or more people around a Dervish, it's more than likely they are Melee (War, Sins) - Yeah strip an enchant...but your dead.
If a Dervish makes a bee line for your Monk, all it takes is for your Tank to get on him and a caster to spike him...DEAD.
With the avatar skills, kiting and some body blocking will counter this and for 2 minutes (120s) the dervish is a pin cushion...DEAD
While the dervish has powerful attacks, they lack in defense, and IMHO will be 1st target of melee in battles to prevent Enchant strips.
I see the Dervish being treated like Sins in PvE...People trying to tank with 70AL and dying...who wants that on their team.
In PvP, they will be standard on alot of teams, but the perception that they are all powerful in a mis-conception.
Remember...Defense wins championships.
gabrial heart
Spirit of Disenchament? Not to mention order of Apostasy (entire party disench on attack).. Plenty of enchantment removal skills, don't see boon prots suffering much. For an avitar, grenth is the worst IMO.
Knight of Balthazer
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
@ the comment about other classes healing.
Both new classes have some random healing spells. The Dervish can do some great healing with Imbue Health (I think that's the name it was). It's Mysticism and it did about 260+ healing depending. I don't remember what the downside was, it might've been it removes an enchant or something, (which is just standard for a Dervish) but it costs 10 nrg and has a 1/4 cast, like Infuse Health, without the sacrifice of half your health. The recharge though I can't remember...but it's not much and recharges in plenty of time to get back before the next wave of a spike comes around. |
the dervishes doesnt need a nerf bat it need something like a nerf tank...
yay im academy page now =)
Silver_Fang
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Originally Posted by Knight of Balthazer
the name is imbue health and can heal up to 300 health...this needs to be elite if it stays the same because its healed for 5...50% of your health(maximum 300) and have you tried to kite from a dervishes in avatar of balthazer??? and a tank hardly does anything to stop it from beating on your monk... with the +40 armor i had a tank continue to hit me while i was in avatar of balthazer and using the AoE skills like balths rage that resulted in the monk AND the warrior dead.
the dervishes doesnt need a nerf bat it need something like a nerf tank... yay im academy page now =) |
Phades
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
@ the comment about other classes healing.
Both new classes have some random healing spells. The Dervish can do some great healing with Imbue Health (I think that's the name it was). It's Mysticism and it did about 260+ healing depending. I don't remember what the downside was, it might've been it removes an enchant or something, (which is just standard for a Dervish) but it costs 10 nrg and has a 1/4 cast, like Infuse Health, without the sacrifice of half your health. The recharge though I can't remember...but it's not much and recharges in plenty of time to get back before the next wave of a spike comes around. |
What many people are forgetting is that the dervish's main strength is the enchantments. The scythe skills are not that great without them, nor are they as efficient or deadly as the enchantment skills. As it was, each scythe skill used generally required a slot devoted to at least 1 enchantment that was not meant to be stripped away, due to how the other support skills functioned. Throw in avatar of grenth and you have alot of wasted space, never mind requiring a run speed boost that did not conflict with IAS, or risk using a 15e skill (which was rather unwieldy in practice for a profession with low energy and i almost expect rangers to figure out a way to abuse at some point in time).
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Originally Posted by Khift
OoA requires a character dedicated to spamming it, thus it is active enchantment removal. AoG is fire and forget and does not require a character dedicated to it, thus it is passive enchantment removal. OoA requires the actions of two characters to remove any enchantments, AoG only requires one character, thus AoG > OoA.
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There really is no valid comparison between the two elietes and even in the short term something simple like expunge enchantments is far more effective.