the reason theres more failure rate in the elite missions weekend.

I AM NOT SAYING ANY CLASS SUCKS, REFER TO POST 30 BEFORE POSTING


weeks ago, anyone that wanted to get to an elite mission, had to actually be willing to complete it to enter

people had to sit waiting for a ferry sometimes
the thing was, people actually prepared to be able to to this missions

nowadays, people that want to do the missions in this weekend, simply go to an npc and make a quick group

most people atm have almost no idea what they are doing, hence they fail

examples of this

--> 55 monks
--> assasins (i have an assasin myself, but i dont bring it to the deep because his role is degen/spiker, not mass mob control
-->mesmers (same thing, they are a great class, but dont have 35+ enemy mob control), besides, pug groups dont have the confidence to bring these in their groups unless they are experienced ones
-->16 weapon mastery "tanks"
-->flare spammers
-->trappers with 10 wilderness and 16 marksmanship


please people, read everything about the elite missions first

"a guide to pugs" thread
guild wiki

inform before attempting them please

"I in no way try to underrate the classes just mentioned, but i agree there roles are different than the ones needed for this missions. why would you take an assasin that can kill 1 target in 8 secs, when u can bring to nukers to dispose a group of 20 enemies in an echo meteor shower spam?

...Did you just imply that mesmers don't belong in the elite missions? Sorry if I misunderstood, but it looks that way...

i always runned 16 weapon mastery tank , it always worked , and i always cleared the deep.

really all those tank with the bar filled with stances and other stuff make me laugh.

2 defencive skill are enough with decent monk i even survived without using them

and about the stupid ppl.

Guy join.

What is your skillbar

1) guy respond -> good skillbar ok proceed
2) guy respond -> sucky skillbar -> kicked
3) guy say nothing -> kicked.

yes even if he is a monk.

I'll say it! Mesmers don't belong in anything but PvP.

And this thread is pretty useless, any good group will screen out the noobs by checking their builds.

Plenty of backline to spike once aggro is taken.

Neither does anything else that doesn't have mass aoe, your point?

Like those warriors that tank all the FoW spiders, and kill them too?

A thread that had to have the first post heavily edited and the thread mod-cleaned after it was barraged with counter opinions and accusations of overwhelming stupidity.


Reasons for failure rate are more people who have never done it before, and more random pugs.

I had never seen any elite mission before today ( as a matter of principle I refuse to stand in a town spamming LF taxi for something which should be open to all anyway ) and completed Urgoz on first try .

oh,really?? This tells me you know very little about mesmers in PvE play ( example : do Nahpui quarters first without a mesmer and then with one : you will see a mesmer can take out celestials by the bunch by using cry of frustration and energy-surge, they deal incredible damage by just using those 2 skills ) .I can imagine a mesmer in Urgoz could wreak havoc as well ( in fact : I have no doubt about it at all ) .

Hey...I resent that!

I edited the that thread only to clarify more specifically why Assassins and Mesmers are not accepted into PuGs. I never changed my stance. And I shall remain by it.

You also fail to point out that the other half of that thread agreed with me.

I'm sorry, but not all Mesmers are as "leet" as you, Avarre.

ROFL!

You're funny.

I have absolutely no idea what to say.

Seriously. I could say so many things but.

Wow, just wow.




Wow


you ever played mesmer OP?

I managed just fine with Arcane Echo and Glyph of Energy on my bar......yeah, despite most people screaming for renewal nukers.

The main problems I encountered were

Rage Quitters
55 monks (yep......)
Leeroys
people who don't listen to experienced players to organise the team (after all, it IS the ultimate co-op challange ;P)
Wammo that runs back when the monk has him healed fine as I'm nuking then goes on to me to "Do my job" when I try to fight off the kanaxi after he goes down like a rock (back turned = double dmg + heal sig = gg). I can only Gale once every 10 seconds on Kanaxai you know =/. So yeah, warriors not holding agro
People who camp drops on the other side of the gate when the others have been Rebirthed to the other side, causing the others to get angry/quit.

I had no problem taking my time and listening to someone first time around, did well, went back in and educated other new players. Wish others could too ;_;

Oh, and I can testify that ASSASSINS have NO place in the deep. Only thing that can survive up close is a warrior. Mesmers on the other hand, can do good.

are you spreading mesmer hate? Nothing intereupts kanaxi like a mesmer, you pig. You're dead to me.

You ARE joking, right?

All Elementalists and usually the SS take Inspired/Revealed Hex, which dispells Kanaxai's Enchantments. Henceforth, a Mesmer is not needed to kill Kanaxai.

Assassins are useless? What about the critical barrager? Any ranger can be replaced in a B/P team with the same amounts of critical barragers because they have the same DPS.

Dude, that's why there's fast cast healers!

LMFAO. I would love to watch a team running a crit barrager in the deep.

Healy Mchealer: Why are these oni all over the place?
Sin Mcbarrager: I dunno but im poisoned.

Oh really? Well while that mesmer delt 44 + 80 damage to every celestial in that group, a nuker was dealing 100+ damage for each meteor you saw fall on their heads not including the following rodgorts and fireballs and such. I'm not denying that mesmers deal great spike damage, but the fact is that in 99% of all PvE situations there is a much better replacement for one.

For the record, I have both a mesmer and an assassin and I love playing them.

I agree with you that there are more people who are doing the elites for the first time. I get into a group and before we go out everyone says they have done it before, then trappers trap and the rest of the team runs ahead and gets killed...

You forgot Captain Firestorm and Senor Charge-Twisted Bark-through-3-Dredge-mobs-and-half-a-dozen-Blood-Drinkers-and-15-degen.

Tank: why isn't he dieing, i just keep on hitting him and he won't die...
Monk: you got a knock skill right?
Tank: Nobody told me to bring knockdown skill....
Monk: /doh
Nerco: I guess room 4 is sitting....
Nerco: /dance

Which is why I said it was edited on 'accusations of stupidity'. You can't deny that people accused you of that, and the first post was changed to more properly display your opinion.

LOL then why did a random group in Boreas seabed PM me saying "Dude we need u," When I was doing the mish, again, to help a guildie. And not to mention how the AI casts thru a backfire at 144 dmg per cast, but I bet a war took credit for that.

The only profession that doesn't belong anywhere is a WHAMMO IN PVP.

some people thinks they are pr0s Writing "Mesmer are the l33t you are all n00b to not take them!!!!"

Here is the truth , unless the mesmer is one of my friend i wont take it on a deep group(at least 2 month ago when i was still making them)just becouse a ele is more efficent.

you dont have to shut down a target when you can nuke them down and tank the damage they make.

this is the pve sad truth.

All I have to say about mesmers is. Shatter Demonic Agility ftw.

it's... RAMBO. who think he can do everything, than blame the monk cuz he's a tard.

Actually, a deep group should always have fast cast physic distraction mesmer.



want proof, here look at the guild tag





<-----

Erm...guildtags mean nothing (especially since I say someone from Blackblades asking for Trappers in The Deep as opposed to a BiP, heh)

16 weapon mastery tanks are fine... if your worried about the -75 health bring 2 helms.... its a pve char.

minor sets yay!

Because thats the only mission that people appreciate interrupts. A ranger would have been able to do the job just fine interrupting every skill Argo and the Kraken use. And a nuker would keep them constantly on the ground with meteor showers.

Why? What are you interrupting?

Hehe - Flame bait if I've ever heard it. I take my mesmer running all over Cantha & Tyria with henchies and I seem to do very well. When I'm in a PUG, we usually rip through anything that gets in the way. You just haven't hit on a good PvE build for Mesmers.

i have a pve sin which i know how to use it, and i love when i get mesmers in my teams everytime, but i just think that mesmers serve a different purpose in the game, and i think that having more than one reduces team'd dmg output

ok you people are misunderstanding me

i didnt said that mesmers or assasins are useless at all, i jsut say that you need people tht knows wht they are doing to be able to fit them in groups

today I finished a urgoz team with a group of friends

the line was:

1 bip necro
2 stance tanks (0 in weapon mastery, max tactics + strneght)
3 renewal nukers
2 monks
1 mesmer
1 r/n with eoe
1 ward/defensive ele
1 rt

what im saying is: our dmg was focused on massive mob control, and its ok when you see this when you press ctrl:



i dont expect a mesmer to be able to degen all of them dont you?
or even an assasin to spike each of them

btw: warriors have weakness on them 65% of the time in urgoz, so dont ask why its bad to waste 100 attribute points in a line its worthless in certain situations

LOL if you agrro'd that lot no class would survive

The team pulls a small section of that, the mes shuts down the earth ele's churning earth, crys the heal sig of the warriors and then proceeds to take out the song wardens.

Whats the rest of the party doing all this time? Reaping the benefits not having multiple -42 dmg aoe on their warriors and having the mobs heals interupted/stopped by Heal sig and monks being stopped. In your team above, I bet not being churning'd or flambe'd with bed of coals made a large difference

I think there are 2 weakness trees in Urgoz, one at the start and one in the dual environment room(just before the warden room above). In the latter, position yourself near the cliff face and take it down from range.

You ARE joking right?

There is no NOT NEEDED class at all it's a cooperative game, if less competetive jerks like yourself were playing the game it might actually be more fun for most people.

Please take your elitist attitudes and go play another game.

(if a mod finds this offensive consider the post I'm responding to, thanks).

ever had diversion on you? I rest my case

This is elitism at its worst. Yes I know you're going for a specific purpose, for great efficiency, but who are you to decide that my build is sucky? how can you tell that the skills I mention aren't going to work the way you think they are? Maybe I've done this mission a hundred times and have found my unique build to be suited perfectly, but because its so odd you immediately dismiss it?

And since when do Mesmers only belong in PvP?Just because you don't know how run a class doesn't mean they aren't good. My stance is, and always has been, that any class can do any mission despite what people might say. You just have to be smart enough to play that class to fit what situation you come up against. Transfer your knee jerk "nuke the heck out of everything" reaction to a smite monk or mesmer, and lets see how fast you die. Play smarter, not harder.
And for goodness sake have fun. Don't give yourself a coronary cause somebody uses a skill you don't like.

Another reason that alot of people are failing the elites is because they dont realise how long it is going to take and how much organisation it takes.

The event is a great idea to give people a taste of the missions and a chance to get the great weapons.

But its the responsibility of the group leader to make sure the people they have in their team understand whats entailed, including the build they want, the time it takes to complete and that they follow the lead of the designated "leader"

Thats very true, re: organisation etc. So long as you know what you're doing you can clear fow/uw with little or no voice comms. I'm not sure I would attempt urgoz or the deep without it tbh

You're assuming I automatically reject people because they use abstact builds. We play around with different builds all the time. But when we're looking for something specific we make it clear what we're looking for and reject anyone not bringing it.

Yeah any class can do a mission and I will bring any class into a mission, but Im just saying that out of all the classes you can make mesmers are the least effective in PvE. They belong in PvP only really, because that where they dominate. Same goes with assassins. I don't give a crap what you think, thats my stance on it and just because you think you got the best mesmer build that owns PvE wont change my mind because I know I can find something else thats better.

My apologies if I offended you. You never stated in your post that you were advertising for specific builds, in light of which your actions are reasonable.


I respect your opinion, but there is a difference between being least effective and not belonging in pve. And it all depends on what you're looking for when you're looking for that "something better". So it doesn't do great AoE damage, but it is a fun and challenging class, eitherwise no one would play it.

Too bad this guy doesn't even know diversion doesn't work on Kanaxai : P

Some people can deem a build is sucky and it will stay sucky. Some people can think through a build themselves and tell you whether or not your little pet build will suck for the mission or not. It is true others may not be able to do this, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how effective a build might be in a mission. This isn't magic, it's a game that follows logic and reasoning.

And please, a mesmer has nowhere near the damage output of an ele. I know you rabid pro-mesmers out there love to sit around and champion a losing cause, but the cold reality is that mesmers are much more to suited to 1 by 1 management of monsters rather than the destruction of an entire village of them.

Let's get this straight: For maximum efficiency, an elementalist beats the pants out of a mesmer from raw damage output - period. No amount of screaming, wild gesticulation and whining from the players on this forum will ever change this fact.

The BEST WAY to kill a LARGE group of monsters is to:
1) BUNCH THEM UP
2) NUKE THE HELL OUT OF THEM

Sure, I could do complicated little pirouettes and go through all sorts of contortions that a group may or may not survive just to make a stupid little inefficient point that a class subpar to the job of killing a billion monsters at once can do it, but I won't.
Why?
Because I'm not a moron. Because if I'm doing the darn thing XX+ times there's no point in humoring some other selfish player who thinks they're the paragon of individuality in guild wars and is insistent on wasting my time.

Apart from this entire rant: Smite monks would cause the monsters to break aggro and run around wildly like idiots, thus screwing any chance your group had of killing them in an orderly fashion.


Again: Mesmers have NO place in the deep. I'm not going to put up some random PvE mesmer to reliably interrupt Kanaxai repeatedly. Sorry. My answer? Spinal Shiver necromancer + icy weapon warriors. Most efficient and least demanding solution.

I will make one final concession: mesmers have their uses in Urgoz, simply as a SINGLE TARGET anti caster tool against the huge trees.