Shared Attibutes with different classes, The synergy of.

Lo, once again a vision of the future has taken hold of me, here it is.

I propose to have Classes that SHARE attributes with other classes.
The shared attribute would NEVER be the primary of course (balance and continuity issues)
but sharing a attribute just makes sence to me.

1. It would delay the ever growing problem with Skill expansion (too many MC's not enough DJ's).
2. It gives added incentive to buy the following chapters (for the synergy)
3. It would add some class variare (less War/Mo. Ne/Mo/Me. El/Me...)

There are several threads on new class Ideas and i won't go into that but as an example:


EX: War/Berserker ---->shared attribute AXE (can use AXES, shared axe skills)
or
Ne/Demonologist ----->shared attribute CURSES (can use CURSE related objects, shared CURSE skills)

kind of like "true" Bi-colored decks in MTG.

Of course (and i can hear some people screaming "BALLLANCE") these "synergyzed" classes would be countered by traditional builds and the fact of choosing a War/Berserk over a War/Mo would not mean that War/Be "pwns" War/Mo. It would just mean that that particular combination would not be healing itself as often/efficiently but WOULD have some interesting AXE combos/Axe WEAPONS.

The classes would really become (more) interesting IMO.

Interesting. I'm certainly not opposed to the idea, as long as proper balance will still exist.

Sorry, there have been a couple of threads suggesting a synergy class, but your idea has totally lost me.

You're suggesting shared attributes between two classes. So even though Necromancers already have a Curse Spells attribute line, you... want to... share it with (and the correct term is) a Demonologist.

So... for a Mesmer and a Ranger... if the Mesmer already has Inspiration... then... the... ranger will have it too?

um, dont we already have this... it's called "Secondary class"

If this isn't what you mean, then your idea really really really really really really needs to be expanded to compliment every single "really" that was mentioned in this post.

What I see him meaning is, for example on the Necromancer/Demonologist, having the "Demonologist" class have an attribute "Curses" that has several Demonologist skills that are hexes, and such. We all know Necromancers already have an attribute "Curses" and Necromancer skills linked to "Curses." I think his idea was to for example, make them count as the "same" attribute if you have a Necromancer/Demonologist. Although I think somthing like this would probably unbalance the game a bit... If it wouldn't, it would certainly be fairly interesting. Infact, it may even be a way to buff underused attribute lines on certain Primarys.

Yeah, that's way more clear.

/sarcasm.

Lol, ok here's another try...



Warrior and Berserker(another one of the OPs examples), both have the attribute "Axe Mastery." Both can use Axes. Both have "Axe Mastery skills, unique to their profession.

You make a Warrior/Berserker, pop 12 into Axe Mastery, grab your headgear and superior rune and now you can use both Warror-linked Axe Mastery skills, and Bezerker-linked Axe Mastery skills with your axe, both of which act like you have 16 in axe mastery, since you do. It's basicaly consolidating two attributes into one when you merge a two classes with said linked attribute.



Edit: If this makes no sense, I'll try again once I get some sleep...

I kind of get it....kind of...I think this is actually a suggestion for new classes instead of changing the orginal ones. You want a class that has the same attribute of the old ones so they can share skills and not have to worry about attribute problems. Neat, but I doubt it will happen.

If I'm wrong then I have no idea what the hell you mean

It take a while to get what are you suggesting....

Interesting... but personally I don't see much need for it, as I am not afraid that they (or we) wil run out idea for attirbutes. Sharing just reduce the possible class combos, and reduce their limitations.

Only if they come up with a Sub-class system... but don't hope to see that anytime soon yet too.

on somewhat related topic. There are two possible attributes that I see that would offer some sort of sharing. Two-handed Weapons and Dual-wielding. Beside having skils in their attribute, say if you are wielding an two-handed sword, or two sword, you could than also use skills in War's Swordmastery attribute. Of couse, there need more blance to it all, but just a brief suggestion.

Uh... are you suggesting to make new classes that have the same attributes as the old ones? If so then /not signed
Or if you're suggesting to give the old classes new attributes then also no...

Gah how many profesions does this game need/want? Seriously in a few years classes are gonna be like skills lol, too hard to memorize them all. Instead of W/E20 theres gonna be like Warr/Elem 10 classes that start with every letter,,,,

What do you mean, there are only 8 primary classes at the moment, this is few for a Rpg, the more calasses, skills, weapons etc the better. Makes things more unique and different imo.

But you don't get it...GW WILL NEVER DUPLICATE CLASSES. A warrior and berserker classes will never exsist togather. We will not get a demonologist(sp) and a necro class togather. Albeit, there may be classes similar to other classes, but attributes won't be linked to others.

Zui has gotten it totally right.

As for GW duplicating classes, well that's NOT what im proposing.
The Core classes are far too hazy IMO and cover far too many different things.
Take the Warrior for example. Do you honestly think (Jin) that GW will NEVER create a class that resembles a warrior* and will not use a AXE, SWORD, or HAMMER? I for one find that ...well, limiting and unrealistic tbh.

* And by "resembles a warrior" i mean a class that uses ONE of those (non-primary) attributes.

but.. couldn't anet make more skill instead of making another prof? The way i understood this.. wars will all be w/ber for they have lots of different skills under 1 attribute and the same for the other classes.

I'd prefer chars to be able to actually LEARN new attribute lines, thus learning more skills and bla bla bla...

I did mention that not all new classes would have a shared attribute.
This would happen when a new class *should* clearly have one of the attributes that allready exist in one of the classes. The weapons for the warrior, the various elements...non primary ones.
as for every Warrior becoming (using the Berserker example because its clearest) W/Ber. It would certainly be popular...but such a character would be focused on its AXE skill (the only war / Ber shared attribute) thus making it a *probable* heavy melee dmg dealer but with few self heal/prot skills.
At the moment the main type of Warrior I see (sometimes its ALL I see) is the War/Mo. Heavy damage + self heal/prot. A shared non-primary attribute would help in making the whole class thing hopefully a little more dynamic.

At the current rate we will be seeing FOUR new classes per year.

That a hell of a lot of runes,skills* and weapons. THAT WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE ON ANY OTHER CLASS.

* to its maximum value

OK i seriously dont get it, maybe its cuz im stupid as hell or maybe it doesnt make sense but what ur saying is u should be able to make a w/w a r/r a mo/mo? so on and so on. because it sure seems like thats what u are trying to say.

ANet stated ages ago that not all new chapters will have new professions.

Mitch, No that's not what i'm saying. Secondary class would allways be different.

NinjaKai, I stand corrected. In any case we will have had 4 in one year. I guess Anet will grant players a minimum of 2 per year then. what wrong with having one Synergyzed class now and again?

: / i think i understand... like combine two melee proffesions in order to do tons of phys. damage. and have two casters combined to make a godly nuker..issss that right? like w/a

Ok lets say for the sake of debate that Factions (chapter 2) had come out NOT with the Assassin but with a class called : SAMURAI (theres allready one proposed but ill make this one up) It follows the usual GW char layout (points assigned to one attribute ONLY affect skills of the same attribute EXCEPT in the case of the primary)

Class name : SAMURAI

Primary Attribute: BUSHIDO
Primary Atribute assigned weapon:
One hand: (example) Tanto. MELEE
Offhand: (example) Sigil.

Points assinged to the BUSHIDO attribute will increase the chance to either randomly deal double dmg or recive 1/2 dmg (rounded up) for 2 seconds.
BUSHIDO affects mainly weapon technique skills. *Chained Stances i would guess


Attribute: MEDITATION
Atribute assigned weapon:
One Hand: (ex) Shakuhachi. MELEE
Offhand: (ex) prayer beads.

Meditation affects mainly evasive and healing skills.


Attribute: HONOR.
Attribute assigned weapon:
Two hand: (ex) Flag Lance. MELEE

HONOR affects mainly party buffs.

Attribute: SWORDMANSHIP.
Attribute assigned weapon: SWORDS. (yes all of them)
Two hand: (ex) Victos blade. MELEE

SWORDMANSHIP ...you know what it does.


Now the important thing here is not that its (probably) overpowered or that its attributes suck or whatever, (I'm using this example becasue it fits in nicely with the asian theme that Factions has). The important thing is SWORDMANSHIP. This War/Sam could have 16 points (runes and all) in Swordmanship and the rest in whatever. yes it would be a melee fighter but i suspect it would fight in quite a different way to a "normal" warrior and it would be balanced by the fact that like our current 100% warriors it would NOT have tons of self heal skills. Unlike our current War/Mo it would NOT be able to recover all its HP by itself in the middle of a fight because its simply not what its meant to do.

I dont agree. That samurai example could easily be replicated by having a warrior secondary, in which case you gain all of those swordsmanship skills. (If i misinterpreted the example, I apologize. Its late lol) I feel like its not needed because instead of making a W/Be to get more swords skills, why not just add more W sword skills in the next chapter? (Again, if i read that wrong, sorry!)

The thing is, if you cann't make them unique enough... why bother making a new class? They could be similar (like bow to spear, or sword to dagger), but should still have a thin seperation, be it in their usage or cost or timing.

For your example Sleeper Service, the Samurai could get its own Katana Mastery, which could just have skills of slighly twicked swordmastery skill (possibly exluding adr, and replace with something else). I just don't see the need for fused attribute yet.

To some degree, I agree with the 3 points of problem in your OP, but still don't think GW need to sink to this level yet. There are still bucket of creative ideas for new class and skills here.

OK here’s my situation and I’m sure it will apply to a few other players out there.

I enjoy PvE a LOT more than PvP. Call me a pve noob or whatever but you probably will not even come close to the kind of verbal aggression one gets out on the PvP fields. Furthermore I Just love the questing/adventuring side of it, and as a bonus I get tons of cool items (that I can’t be bothered to sell because the trade SUCKS but that’s another story).

I have a grand total of 8 char slots (yes I bought 2) and ZERO PvP chars.
Six are level 20 RP chars and I’m just finishing factions with the 6th one (two have deleatable chars that I’m keeping just for the names when Nightfall comes out). All the chars have multiple secondary jobs (my main El has a good chunk of all core professions, including elites).

Now during the development of these characters I found it more and more annoying that at the end of the day its breaks down to this:

MELEE CLASS PRIMARY---->MO SECONDARY
MAGE CLASS PRIMARY----->MO or ME SECONDARY
RANGED CLASS PRIMARY--->MO or ME SECONDARY


The reason being that if a secondary class does not directly and efficiently reinforce your primary to make it more powerful (echo*, anti interupt Me skills... etc) then its simply not worth putting the points into it. And if your build works better "pure" then take Mo as secondary because even with zero points in Prot, rebirth will always be the BEST rez skill in PvE.

Now I know there are builds that do not use that format (have a few myself) but the problem lies in that fact that either it’s just not powerful enough, fast enough or demands too many external requirements (team combos and/or particular enemy behavior/conditions).

Result?
1. Six chars that are super-uber flexible and, which if I want to remain alive and/or keep my team from failing the missions need to remain "pure" or directly boosted.
2. No fancy profession mixing or skilling (I’ve actually been called a noob for using SS when I was MM'ing and that’s the same profession!)
3. A Ton of super-uber cool weapons that are simply not worth putting onto a char if it’s not for its primary profession.

Of course just giving the ability to chars to use runes of any profession would solve this but I'd predict a lot of resistance on that front. On top of that I can't even imagine the balance issues that that would cause.


In my humble opinion I just recon that this would resolve the originally posted issues (and the other comments) as well as this particular problem whilst retaining overall game balance.

On another note, should the community would really be dramatically opposed to the introduction of Class Synergy (getting mixed feedback I have to say) then how about if Anet proposed Classes for sale at its online shop? (For like um...12 dollars or something) yes I know balance and testing always the problem meh....solution anyone?

*and using the Echo related skills requires zero points...so

i am not sure how well it would work, considering many classes use their own type of weapon, like warrior hammer and berserker hammer are 2 way different things.

Its a good idea but it would be even more intersting(if not practical) to have chars select one primary attrbute, and 3 attribute selction points, weapon attributes would cost .75, non weapon attribute 1