Mursaat were good?

Tien ak

Tien ak

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Crystal Indignation

R/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaelthos Solcry
Don't be so childish and ignorant,when it comes to the topic of the nature of different races ,there is no race which is 'good' or 'evil' .Every race has an inherent instict to SURVIVE ,and if that means dominance over other species to ensure it ,then so be it .
Someones been whatching the Aliens films

But I do dissagree with you the Mursatt could of just stayed on their own planet and they would be fine, our characters wouldn't of killed the mursat if they done things a little more peacefull, for example not kill innocent people in cold blood and try to take over our planet.

I see the mursat as not 100% evil as in some sense they did try to save the world and save the gods by not letting the titans free. However they obviously took things a little to far and good ol greed took over.

As for Glint I agree with lapsus that she wanted some revenge on the gods and thus made this all come to plan, as even though we took back the shiverpeaks why go over to the ring of fire? to kill the mursat once and for all? I don't think so, its to realise the titans.

Though glints plan does backfire when you kill her hense why she tells you about the titans that were free after the last mission.

So to sums things up there was no Survival beetween glint and Mursat the only people trying to survive was the humans, Glint was after revenge and the Mursat wanted to add anouther planet to their collection

Dawns Tide

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

NY

[BOTO]

W/A

The real question is.. are we evil?

Makaelthos Solcry

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

The Demon Hunters Clan

N/R

aliens movies ? wHatching ?

first of all ,i've never WATCHED one ,second xwtrcgnvjukuvjtyrhtegrsnhmj

Ristaron

Ristaron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Canada, eh?

Legion Of Valhalla

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaelthos Solcry
You mean norse .
No. He means Greco Roman.
In Norse mythology the Gods were opposed by the Giants, not the Titans.

And there's a flaw with your theory, Lordhelmos. In fact... several.
First of all... there are five gods. Dwayna, Balthazar, Melandru, Grenth, and Lyssa.
Secondly... the gods created the serpents to look after Tyria, which they eventually realized the uselessness of with the destructive presence of humans. They fled to the Crystal Desert, and later left, and humans continued to screw themselves up until at last King Doric pleaded for the gods for aid.
The gods, in their final act before leaving Tyria forever, gather up all the magic in a giant stone, smash it, and seal the five pieces with Doric's blood. The stones are dropped in Abaddon's Mouth, and it's believed done.

Then, a few hundred years later, the volcano erupts and the Bloodstones are scattered all over Tyria.
Tyria, not the world.


The Titans, according to guildwiki, are a powerful and destructive race that once roamed Tyria's furthest corners (including Ascalon, where the Charr recieved them as gods and still erect flammable effigies in their image). How they were sealed inside the Door of Komalie probably involves the Scepter of Orr, whos wielder the Titans submit to. After the Scepter was used to seal the Titans away, it was likely hidden in a bygone place in Kryta. This is because Kryta had no real military - only the Lionguard who kept safe the Holy City of King Doric's line. As such, even if anybody were to find the Scepter they would not know what it was.
Unfortunately, not all record of it was lost.
Centuries later, a student of the Flameseeker Prophecies begins searching for a mysterious artifact alluded to in the dragonscript. His efforts are kept silent, and the more he researches the artifacts power and history, the more he realizes how he might use it. The chain of events has begun, and Vizier Khilbron comes to realize he will need to be more than mortal to achieve his goal.
So when the Charr approach, he performs an ancient ritual of devastating consequences - transforming himself into a lich and destroying the entire peninsula that was Orr.

By now we need to think about the Mursaat. It is likely that they lived in the Maguuma as long as time can recall, and didn't branch out from there for fear of the Titans. Thus, they would have eagerly played a hand in sealing the Titans away.
When the volcano erupted, spewing out the Bloodstones, it is possible that the integrity of the magical door of Komalie was weakened. Fearing the return of their hated enemy, the Mursaat endeavoured to find a way to keep shut the gate to hell. The most effective means they contrive is a battery, powered by souls.
Fearing that their plan may be discovered, they decide to kill two birds with one stone. Literally. They sacrafice the Chosen - who can see them - on the bloodstone, which charges the battery and renews the strength of the door of Komalie.
Their plan works perfectly until Khilbron takes the next step of his design, and takes some of the Chosen before the Mantle can get to them, and then shows the group their friends being slaughtered on the Bloodstone. Horrified, they found the Shining Blade, which the band of heroes is eventually drawn into.

See, Khilbron alone was one man, but he knows that with the door of Komalie weakening, the Mursaat would use their influence over the White Mantle to send search parties through Kryta in search of the lost artifact. But when Khilbron has his own influence in a great organization such as the Shining Blade, he can use them to retrieve the artifact and deliver it to him.
All works according to his designs, and the rest is needs no interpretation.



The Mursaat are neither good nor evil (unless you count an apparent lack of conscience as evil). They are simply looking out for their better interests, no matter the cost. Something understandable in any race.


<EDIT:> Rereading my post, it seems as if the entire thing is stating that Lordhelmos' theory is a wrong... actually only the top is correcting the flaws, the rest is my own theory.

B??x??44????1@$

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Up to the point where you speak of the Mursaat (after reading tons on Wiki) that seems to be the standard though.

Probobly even right about the rest, including the maguuma jungle and that is where D'Allesio found the Mursaat, and considering thats also near where the Scepter of Orr was found.

lapsus

lapsus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

AMO

A/

Just beacuse they are an enigmatic force that killed hundreds of people, if not thousands, to stay alive doesnt make them evil. No mursaat, no world, that makes the mursaat saints in my book.

Ristaron

Ristaron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Canada, eh?

Legion Of Valhalla

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsus
Just beacuse they are an enigmatic force that killed hundreds of people, if not thousands, to stay alive doesnt make them evil. No mursaat, no world, that makes the mursaat saints in my book.
Despite the loss of their council and the devastating defeat to their plans, the Mantle and the Mursaat may still be killing.

Lordhelmos

Lordhelmos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Sentients of Shadow (noir)

Me/E

Hehe forgot about lyssa.. lol not enough coffee in my system. I think there is a definite gray in the allegience of the mursaat to good or evil. Once thing for sure is their cultural standing in terms of humanity. It seems likely they believed they were a higher race than man and treated humans as such. It seems like the mursaat were using humans for conveniece and survival. Be interesting to think about what happened to the mursaat after the game. With spawling cities described in the book that may exist in some ethereal world, it may be unlikely that they are wiped out. Of course, the reason for their fall is simple underestimation of the humans they monopolized with their religious mind control. Post game, the mursaat would be revealed to the world as false gods by the shining blade, and once the truths of their ways and human soul manipulation is make known me thinks the world would become very tough for them.

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordhelmos
Hehe forgot about lyssa.. lol not enough coffee in my system. I think there is a definite gray in the allegience of the mursaat to good or evil. Once thing for sure is their cultural standing in terms of humanity. It seems likely they believed they were a higher race than man and treated humans as such. It seems like the mursaat were using humans for conveniece and survival. Be interesting to think about what happened to the mursaat after the game. With spawling cities described in the book that may exist in some ethereal world, it may be unlikely that they are wiped out. Of course, the reason for their fall is simple underestimation of the humans they monopolized with their religious mind control. Post game, the mursaat would be revealed to the world as false gods by the shining blade, and once the truths of their ways and human soul manipulation is make known me thinks the world would become very tough for them.
Well, they have a point. Of the Sentinent races, Mursaat are the most powerful, no real contest. Yes, you can kill them 1v1 but that's a) AI stupidity and b) the help of the Seer (the second most powerful race, if it could wage a lasting war vs the Mursaat).

The remnants of the Mursaat, if any, will probably hang around, but I doubt they'll flourish much anymore, they've lost their menial support, their soul batteries, and their leader (you killed him in Abbadon's Mouth).

Ristaron

Ristaron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Canada, eh?

Legion Of Valhalla

E/

A perfect ending to the chapter.
Except they had to add in the quests where you went after the Titans.

In any case, the Prophecies storyline was much better thought out and planned than the Factions one (no offense to the team which was working on Factions, we realize you had about 1/10th of the time to create that chapter as the original team did for Prophecies).
I'm looking forward to the Nightfall campaign with the mention of Elonians... I've wondered quite a bit about their original homeland, their culture, their reason for travelling to the Crystal Desert (ascending 'just for the sake of it' doesn't seem logical... though it could explain why the crystal shards were kept in three different camps, as is described in the Elona Reach mission).

But now we're getting off topic... the Mursaat did evil things, and judging by how they seemed to be guided by a desire of self preservation rather than ridding the world of an destructive force I would not put them on the list of 'good guys'.
Just possible allies when armageddon arrives.

DarthLasing

DarthLasing

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

SD

Looking for One

W/

Hmm..
The mursaat are again not good or evil. When people do things, they think as being good, like hitler inspiring a whole country to slaughter a whole religon. So too many people, the mursaat can be heros to them, and others guild wars nazis.
Buuutt...If the gods feared the titans, or they we're fighting (greco roman mythology again), they must have created the mursaat to defend all races of tyria and stop the titans from ever again ruling Tyria. the mursaat knew there job, but they had to sacrifice a few type of people to keep the door of komalie close. But some humans, in there natural nature, oppose the idea of killing there own kind to keep something closed that they do not know about. Then again, if glint was first created by the gods, why would she oppose something created by the gods to protect a race? Or she doesn't care anymore :P

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

Here is my belief.

Mursaats are not evil, if they only wanted to keep the door of Komali closed. The White Mantel became corrupt (you can see it in Hablion's eyes, and hear it in his voice). I believe they would not stop until they have taken over the entire world. Yes, that would mean once Tyria was secured (including Fire Island), they would march down to Canthas too. After all, the chosen can appear anywhere, even a Canthan, Luxon, or Kurzick.

If the Mursaats wanted more than just to keep the Titans away, then yes, they are evil. But fear of death is not something that makes you evil. I mean, if you heard that someone was going to kill you that bears the mark of the white pimpernel, wouldn't you take action to ensure that you were not killed by such a person?

Look at all of the Shakespearian plays that has prophecies and people (kings) killing off or sending people away (exile) so the prophecy does not come to pass.

As to the question, are WE evil? That depends. Rangers could be, using the skill COMFORT ANIMAL to "capture" an animal. Thankfully, the "seaguls" and the white rabbits are immune to that power. The other animals are not that fortunate. That is why they attack the ranger. If it were a skill like Aquaman or Tarzan's ability to communicate to animals, then the Ranger wouldn't be "evil". And how many of you attacked the neutral, non-aggressive stone creatures in Pre-seering? They didn't attack people, yes they may have gotten in your way from time to time, but they didn't start the fight. There are many instances where I would have like to avoid fights at all costs, but the game wouldn't let me. As soon as they enter my "aggro circle", they attack. No amount of communication to the Ahn Fa or bandits will allow you passage.

Even the creatures outside of the main city on Shang Hi Island (or whatever that Island is that you start in Factions). When you venture out, who attacks those little creatures that wonder around, Master Togo. He instigates the attacks, so is he evil?

The Seer either continuously appears in many areas in the game (Iron Mines, Fire Island - several city missions) or there are a few of her kind around, but either way, she is vengeful. She admits she wants to see them taken out. It seems that everyone believes in these prophecies, so it is natural that everyone takes part in making them come to pass. I don't think the Seer is evil though. But I have to re-look at why her race and the Mursaat were fighting in the first place.

Glint seems to have many eggs. I wonder if the Kuuveng (or whatever that dragon's name is in Unwaking Waters) and Glint have ever met?

Well, that's my opinion.

DarthLasing

DarthLasing

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

SD

Looking for One

W/

Yes I agree with "Pick Me"'s post, what I was trying to say about in my post. Everyone has a different point of view on what they have to do, considering that there doing "good". The mursaat did whatever they could to keep the door of komalie closed, to protect humans, and the other races of tyria.
..............
But I still wonder on why the Mursaat would want to "defend" tyria (the world not contanint) and all it's races, including humans. We're they created by the gods? Sort of off topic...Time to make a thread!

lapsus

lapsus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

AMO

A/

Well id assume that flying, angelic looking beings were created by the gods

heist23

Journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/Mo

Honestly, the fact that we can't decide whether or not the Mursaat were the bad guys or the good guys here speaks to me of a really badly planned plot.

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Quote:
Originally Posted by heist23
Honestly, the fact that we can't decide whether or not the Mursaat were the bad guys or the good guys here speaks to me of a really badly planned plot.
Or you could consider that makes the plot superb in that characters aren't portrayed as such one-dimensional creations that it becomes evident.

OMFGimCUTE

OMFGimCUTE

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

a box

I hop around

W/D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordhelmos
MAJOR SPOILERS******



This is very interesting... I read through the GW manuscripts just to check up on these things....

From the looks of it, it all started with the four gods of course (and many lesser gods that were pwned in ancient battles). The manuscripts said that when the four greater gods rose to power and left to oversee the realm they dropped the bloodstones onto the world. This is where I believe the Titans come into play. Perhaps the Titans were weapons of the gods that were left stored within the titan's source before the divine wars ended with Dwayna, Grenth, Balth, and Melandru pwning everyone. The Titans probably plopped down into the world along with the bloodstones.

After this the world was primordial in the aftermath of the bloodstone fall and the gods pretty much chilled back for now.

About this time the serpents (Dragons) took over the world as mystical creatures and began to sheperd the world. These dragons had some sense of foreseeing time and in their age of glory they created the flameseeker prophecies, pretty much outlining the future of what is to come.

The dragon's foresight proved to be right and the new race they have been expecting appeared in Tyria... mankind. At this point the serpents knew some real bad poop was gonna hit the fan so they said peace out to the world and their duties.

Man brought war and empires to the world and of course the not so fun stuff outline in the dragon's flameseeker prophecies starts happening. A few dragons like Glint and Kunie stayed around to see what was gonna happen out of curiosity.

While this is going on the mursaat and the seers race and embroiled in some huge war with alot of mass slaughter going down (in some other world or plane). The Mursaat WTF pwn the Seers race and the Seer escapes into the world of man. The mursaat kind of chill in their own world for now.

Man erects three massive kingdoms: Orr, Ascalon, and Kryta. The guild wars start and a whole crap load of people start dying. About this time, the beast race of charr discover the titan's source and release the titans. The charr begin worshipping the divine flames of wrath as gods and start spreading destruction because their fiery gods only exist to consume and destroy.

So while all three of these kingdoms are fighting. The charr suddenly roar from the north with flaming titan power and WTF pwn the human races. Ascalon goes down the drain.

While this is going on, Orrians discover some ancient draconian lore and attempt to become more than human by grasping this power and ascending (which is kind of like elevating the power of your spirit, something that dragons know how to do.) Glint believes humans aren't ready for this and her legions of forgotten WTF pwn the humans.

As the charr are wiping out the humans the march into Orr and as a last resort the rulers of Orr resort to an ancient artifact that was leftover from the ages of the gods (as old as the dragons and titans): The sceptor of orr (Which was probably sealed away in the tombs of primordial kings, which functions as a gate between our world and that of the gods.). In using the scepter, which has the power to control souls and the dead, the Orrians screw up and blow themselves away, transforming Orr into a giant wasteland and everyone into undead. Vizer Khilbron is transformed into the undead lich and his greed for domination of the world may be related to the "something that went wrong" with the scepter.

The charr march closer to Kryta and De'Alessio is exiled into the jungle at this point. As a nobody he stumbles into a cross world gate and meets the Mursaat, who look like divine angels to him. Alessio comes back with the aid of the mursaat after pledging is devotion to them and with the Mursaat manipulating events in the shadows, the Mantle Pwn the Charr.

Somehow during this course of events the Mursaat stumble across the bloodstone and discover how to use its powers in order to create seals and armors out of powerful human souls that have a destiny. The only way they could seal the titans away and allow the Krytans to beat the charr is to use human souls in order to charge a soul battery they built and lock the titans behind the door of komalie. Yeah its not pretty but it works... the Mursaat decide not to tell humans about this but instead manipulate the mantle into getting more human souls for them so they can feed their hungry gate against oblivion. Only select people in the mantle heirachy know the truth, such as Hablion and Dorian.

In some place, the mantle scour the ruins of orr and find the scepter. The scepter has some really bad prophecy mojo around it so they seal it in some temple. However, the scepter is linked to the undead and Vizer Khilbron (the old vizer of Orr who is now twisted and manipulative.). By bringing the scepter of orr into kryta they screw up and allow the scheming undead passage into their lands.

Of course some people find out that the chosen are being sacced and form the shining blade to fight the mantle. The shining blade retreat into the forest and begin calling for the aid of the druids in order to fight the mantle. The forest guardians are bored and have nothing really to do so they aid them with little hints but nothing to extreme (Like Dark Oak). The Druids probably just want the mantle out of their forests. Also the mursaat soul magic probably seems evil and unnatural to them.

Now the games starts, and you do all your stuff and get involved. You eventually ascend but in reality after you join the shining blade, the Vizer Mysteriously steps in with his undead powers and begins playing you like a puppet. His plan is to get the scepter and screw you over at the end by causing you to open Komalie so he can use the scepter's powers in order to control the titans and rule the world.

Of course Glint knows all of this and to her its like watching days of our lives, she already knows whats going to happen but sometimes she steps in and gives you some draconian guidance just to spice the show up for herself. After all she was one of the dragons that wrote the flameseeker prophecies in the first place.

All the while the four gods just kind of chill around and watch humans who have ascended fight to their hall or heros and perform a gladiator show. They are too busy moderating Korea, Japan, America, and Europe to worry about armageddon in Tyria. When they care, the pop out and give you a +2 moral boost to cheer you on.

So there you go, simple summary of everything going on with Tyria.

To answer your question, I believe the Mursaat didn't start "evil" because they chose to help Alessio by reviving him in the first place. However when they found out all the fun they could have with human souls, they got a little twisted and did some not so nice things. However it was for the good of the world that they kept the door sealed. Most likely they did out of fear and the flameseeker prophecies come true with each event despite what they tried to do to stop it probably drove them crazy. Thats probably why they went to such extreme measures to seal komalie, even if it meant saccing human souls. I like the mursaat and according to the manual they still have some unseen world where the hailed from in existence somewhere. I would like to see more of the mursaat if that is possible, as a new race or class even.

The mursaat are like humans, just cooler looking and they float (that touch hurts too). Mursaat, like humans are afflicted by corruption and paranoia. They collapsed under the pressure of a forboding end of the world dilemma and started going crazy. It would be unfair to say all mursaat are evil.

I may write some fan fiction on this interesting subject at some time so check lyssas fiction if I start feeling a little productive.

lol i liked the way you siad this story.

Mournblade

Mournblade

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

Houston, Texas

Dawn Treaders [DAWN]

W/Mo

Quoting an entire 100 line post to make a 9 word reply - WINNER!

I pwnd U

I pwnd U

God of Spammers

Join Date: Oct 2005

in the middle of a burning cornfield...

Scars Meadows [SMS] (Officer)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordhelmos
MAJOR SPOILERS******



This is very interesting... I read through the GW manuscripts just to check up on these things....

From the looks of it, it all started with the four gods of course (and many lesser gods that were pwned in ancient battles). The manuscripts said that when the four greater gods rose to power and left to oversee the realm they dropped the bloodstones onto the world. This is where I believe the Titans come into play. Perhaps the Titans were weapons of the gods that were left stored within the titan's source before the divine wars ended with Dwayna, Grenth, Balth, and Melandru pwning everyone. The Titans probably plopped down into the world along with the bloodstones.

After this the world was primordial in the aftermath of the bloodstone fall and the gods pretty much chilled back for now.

About this time the serpents (Dragons) took over the world as mystical creatures and began to sheperd the world. These dragons had some sense of foreseeing time and in their age of glory they created the flameseeker prophecies, pretty much outlining the future of what is to come.

The dragon's foresight proved to be right and the new race they have been expecting appeared in Tyria... mankind. At this point the serpents knew some real bad poop was gonna hit the fan so they said peace out to the world and their duties.

Man brought war and empires to the world and of course the not so fun stuff outline in the dragon's flameseeker prophecies starts happening. A few dragons like Glint and Kunie stayed around to see what was gonna happen out of curiosity.

While this is going on the mursaat and the seers race and embroiled in some huge war with alot of mass slaughter going down (in some other world or plane). The Mursaat WTF pwn the Seers race and the Seer escapes into the world of man. The mursaat kind of chill in their own world for now.

Man erects three massive kingdoms: Orr, Ascalon, and Kryta. The guild wars start and a whole crap load of people start dying. About this time, the beast race of charr discover the titan's source and release the titans. The charr begin worshipping the divine flames of wrath as gods and start spreading destruction because their fiery gods only exist to consume and destroy.

So while all three of these kingdoms are fighting. The charr suddenly roar from the north with flaming titan power and WTF pwn the human races. Ascalon goes down the drain.

While this is going on, Orrians discover some ancient draconian lore and attempt to become more than human by grasping this power and ascending (which is kind of like elevating the power of your spirit, something that dragons know how to do.) Glint believes humans aren't ready for this and her legions of forgotten WTF pwn the humans.

As the charr are wiping out the humans the march into Orr and as a last resort the rulers of Orr resort to an ancient artifact that was leftover from the ages of the gods (as old as the dragons and titans): The sceptor of orr (Which was probably sealed away in the tombs of primordial kings, which functions as a gate between our world and that of the gods.). In using the scepter, which has the power to control souls and the dead, the Orrians screw up and blow themselves away, transforming Orr into a giant wasteland and everyone into undead. Vizer Khilbron is transformed into the undead lich and his greed for domination of the world may be related to the "something that went wrong" with the scepter.

The charr march closer to Kryta and De'Alessio is exiled into the jungle at this point. As a nobody he stumbles into a cross world gate and meets the Mursaat, who look like divine angels to him. Alessio comes back with the aid of the mursaat after pledging is devotion to them and with the Mursaat manipulating events in the shadows, the Mantle Pwn the Charr.

Somehow during this course of events the Mursaat stumble across the bloodstone and discover how to use its powers in order to create seals and armors out of powerful human souls that have a destiny. The only way they could seal the titans away and allow the Krytans to beat the charr is to use human souls in order to charge a soul battery they built and lock the titans behind the door of komalie. Yeah its not pretty but it works... the Mursaat decide not to tell humans about this but instead manipulate the mantle into getting more human souls for them so they can feed their hungry gate against oblivion. Only select people in the mantle heirachy know the truth, such as Hablion and Dorian.

In some place, the mantle scour the ruins of orr and find the scepter. The scepter has some really bad prophecy mojo around it so they seal it in some temple. However, the scepter is linked to the undead and Vizer Khilbron (the old vizer of Orr who is now twisted and manipulative.). By bringing the scepter of orr into kryta they screw up and allow the scheming undead passage into their lands.

Of course some people find out that the chosen are being sacced and form the shining blade to fight the mantle. The shining blade retreat into the forest and begin calling for the aid of the druids in order to fight the mantle. The forest guardians are bored and have nothing really to do so they aid them with little hints but nothing to extreme (Like Dark Oak). The Druids probably just want the mantle out of their forests. Also the mursaat soul magic probably seems evil and unnatural to them.

Now the games starts, and you do all your stuff and get involved. You eventually ascend but in reality after you join the shining blade, the Vizer Mysteriously steps in with his undead powers and begins playing you like a puppet. His plan is to get the scepter and screw you over at the end by causing you to open Komalie so he can use the scepter's powers in order to control the titans and rule the world.

Of course Glint knows all of this and to her its like watching days of our lives, she already knows whats going to happen but sometimes she steps in and gives you some draconian guidance just to spice the show up for herself. After all she was one of the dragons that wrote the flameseeker prophecies in the first place.

All the while the four gods just kind of chill around and watch humans who have ascended fight to their hall or heros and perform a gladiator show. They are too busy moderating Korea, Japan, America, and Europe to worry about armageddon in Tyria. When they care, the pop out and give you a +2 moral boost to cheer you on.

So there you go, simple summary of everything going on with Tyria.

To answer your question, I believe the Mursaat didn't start "evil" because they chose to help Alessio by reviving him in the first place. However when they found out all the fun they could have with human souls, they got a little twisted and did some not so nice things. However it was for the good of the world that they kept the door sealed. Most likely they did out of fear and the flameseeker prophecies come true with each event despite what they tried to do to stop it probably drove them crazy. Thats probably why they went to such extreme measures to seal komalie, even if it meant saccing human souls. I like the mursaat and according to the manual they still have some unseen world where the hailed from in existence somewhere. I would like to see more of the mursaat if that is possible, as a new race or class even.

The mursaat are like humans, just cooler looking and they float (that touch hurts too). Mursaat, like humans are afflicted by corruption and paranoia. They collapsed under the pressure of a forboding end of the world dilemma and started going crazy. It would be unfair to say all mursaat are evil.

I may write some fan fiction on this interesting subject at some time so check lyssas fiction if I start feeling a little productive.


Well i think you covered it all.

Amy Awien

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

Did you add the "well" just to make it to 7 words?

I can be very, very brief on the issue

Quote:
Mursaat were good?
No. They sacrificed people to achieve their goals. That makes them non-good - or evil.

Nothing much to discuss, whatever their reasons or goals, since goals never justify the means, their goals are irrelevant.

NinjaKai

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

Duality Of The Dragon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Awien
No. They sacrificed people to achieve their goals. That makes them non-good - or evil.

Nothing much to discuss, whatever their reasons or goals, since goals never justify the means, their goals are irrelevant.
I think your ignoring the different perspectives here. By the Mursaat view point they we're preventing a prophecy from coming to pass that could doom Tyria if the Ascended chosen failed. They viewed it as a big risk. So they sacrificed the chosen to keep the Door of Komali and the titans sealed.

From your view they are evil and you are good. From their view they are doing what they consider to be best for Tyria. And you are trying to interfere. If I could I would have sided with the mutsaat. ;P

DarthLasing

DarthLasing

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

SD

Looking for One

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Awien
Did you add the "well" just to make it to 7 words?

I can be very, very brief on the issue



No. They sacrificed people to achieve their goals. That makes them non-good - or evil.

Nothing much to discuss, whatever their reasons or goals, since goals never justify the means, their goals are irrelevant.
Just becaused they sacrificed people doesn't mean there not good, every people, every race has a different point of view on what good and bad is. The nazi's and hitler killed jews because they thought they we're a "plague", but at there point of view, they are good, and others opposed them. Like the aztecs, sacrificing there own people to the gods as offering, they did it so the gods would like there people, why? They didn't want to die and have the gods destroy them and send them plagues, drouts, or storms. They would consider that smart, others would consider that ignorant and oppose that. So just because they did what they had to do doesn't mean there evil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaKai

From your view they are evil and you are good. From their view they are doing what they consider to be best for Tyria. And you are trying to interfere. If I could I would have sided with the mutsaat. ;P
I agree

Amy Awien

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

I have heard nobody considering the perspective, or the point of view of the sacrificed Chosen.

Edit Btw:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaKai
... and you are good.
No, I like to believe that I am Good, but I know that I am not. But that is not the issue here.

some guy

some guy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

SPAWN CAMPING YOUR HOUSE

We Speed Clear H O H [ HsC]

In my opinion they are just trying to survive, they know some day the Titans will be released and they will die, so they are doing every thing they can to prevent that.

DarthLasing

DarthLasing

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

SD

Looking for One

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Awien
I have heard nobody considering the perspective, or the point of view of the sacrificed Chosen.

Edit Btw:

No, I like to believe that I am Good, but I know that I am not. But that is not the issue here.

As I said, everyone has a different point of view, some people think there evil, some don't.

The Cheerful

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2006

Given the choice, I would have joined the Mursaat. Seem like nice enough fellows to me. But of course, the stupid Mantle attack you before they even ask if you care about the chosen being killed.

Amy Awien

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLasing
As I said, everyone has a different point of view, some people think there evil, some don't.
I suppose it's easier not to consider the point of view of the sacrificed chosen.

frojack

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

You make an interesting case, but you have to remember that they didn't just sacrifice anyone. They chose certain individuals. This supports the theory that they were trying to prevent a greater 'evil' from occuring.

As with every good story, no one is either completely evil, or completely good. From Star Wars to Gone with the Wind...

NinjaKai

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

Duality Of The Dragon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Awien
No, I like to believe that I am Good, but I know that I am not. But that is not the issue here.
Thats called splitting hairs.

Eldin

Eldin

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

America. How about you, commie?

Fellows of Mythgar [FOM]

R/Mo

The Seers and Mursaat are neither good nor evil. They are simply fighting with one another, and wish to prevent the prophecy which fortells their doom. The same goes for the Mantle, who are even less evil than the Mursaat - they're just the Mursaat's lackeys.

"Ooo...kill that Chosen or I will melt you! Ooo! Beware my power!"
-Mursaat

Blazing

Blazing

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

Portugal

[LoBo]

W/

still laughing of your theory but its actually the one i believe the most acurate.

My conspiracy is: They are all just Pupets in the hands of Glint & that makes them fight against one another while she its popcorns while watching heroes trying to solve the mistery.

But thats just my opinion

Mezmo

Mezmo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/W

Good and evil can all be seen as a matter of perspective.

The mursatts probably thought themselves to be very good since they were the ones guarding the door holding the titans at bay.

People that got killed by them probably didn't think to highly of them.

And the Charr thought of everything but themselves and the titans as evil so yeah, i think they thought the mursatt were evil.

Druids i don't think really cared so long as thier forest weren't destroyed.

Ascalon probably doesn't care since they are already on the brink of destruction from the charr.

The stone summit hate everyone but themselves.

Anyone else wants to add some races go ahead.

Markaedw

Markaedw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazing
still laughing of your theory but its actually the one i believe the most acurate.

My conspiracy is: They are all just Pupets in the hands of Glint & that makes them fight against one another while she its popcorns while watching heroes trying to solve the mistery.

But thats just my opinion
Well If you're an imortal dragon, you got to get you jolly somehow. Hanging out in a grain of sand can get boring fast.

Phrozenflame

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Good or bad is a point of view my young padawans

lapsus

lapsus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

AMO

A/

Ah a true star wars fan not you are, there is no good or evil only the force there is

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

The lich comes pretty close to textbook evil, though: insanely egotistical.

(Also pretty dumb and careless, and probably an unwitting pawn of Glint, but that's besides the point.)

Amy Awien

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsus
Ah a true star wars fan not you are, there is no good or evil only the force there is
Fear leads to anger and anger leads to the dark-side. The mursaat's fear of the Prophecies led them to to the darkside

Chris A

Chris A

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Sep 2006

Bloodlust Wolves

W/Mo

Lordhelmos=brilliance FTW.... in cunjuction with this i kinda posted a little while to day on another site about this and the ch. 3 suposidly tying everything up. heres that post PS ALSO MAJOR SPOILERS. keep in mind im new to posting but i've read about everything on this subject and came up with how plot line might come to end. This whole concept of "who, what and why" really grabbed my attention when i started doing Fow and UW about a year ago. Since then i've been combing forums all over for answers and have found many interesting ideas that all go very neatly together. I will attempt to put everything I've heard from various forums into one neat plotline. I in no way claim the orriginal ideas for myself but mearly just putting the bits and peices together in a logical way. I am in no way god nor do i say my word is law is all pure speculation, all beit very good speculation. Having said that i will say this, This will be long so i apologize in advance, and WILL ALSO CONTAIN SPOILERS. also if the moderator feels this better fits somewhere ealse, plz move it to where it may be more usefull.



Now it all starts about 200 years ago(my timing maybe wrong but bare with me as i state a few guesses here). At this time Dhum and/or Menzies are thrown out of the circle of the gods. Being all po'ed by this the intend to destory wat the gods made. Thus they cause the Titains to ravage the world. This is when the world turns to King Doric. He seeks help from the gods and is giving the sceptor of orr to subdue the titains and lock them behind the door of kamolie.



Around this time Dhum and/or Menzies seeks to use the humans against the other gods in cantha. Dhumn/or Menzies impersonates the fourtune teller and tells Shiro of a vast conspiricy to kill him. As this forth telling start to come to pass Shiro is left with one option, kill the emperor. When is himself is slain his death wail turns the whole....blah blah blah you now this part. But, what you didnt see was Dhum/Menzies comes to Shiro and offers him revenge. They inted for him to use the affliction 200 yrs later to destoy cantha.



2yrs Before present day. Dhumn/Menzies turn back to Tyria. They give the charr the power to to sear ascalon and destory the world. After Alberden and Rurik mustered a defense against the beasts and kryta used the white mantle/Mursaat to destory the charr there, Dhumn/Menzies decieded to use the Vizor in Orr. When the Vizor seeks their counsel, they give him the power to kill the charr, and all of Orr, and settle a grudge with the old gods by destorying their prized city. Then Dhumn/Menzies ressurects the Vizor and gives him a similar offer they gave Shiro, and the Lich is born.



Present day, we'll hope back to cantha. Shiro uses the power he was given and trained with and raises an army of afflicted. However a double cross is made. Shiro Finds a way to become human. When Dhumn/Menzies realize this they send the 'envoys' to res you at viznuah sqaure. You then end up doing Dhumn's/Menzies's dirty work by defeating Shiro.



Well that was a short plot but thats a different debate.Now to Tyria



About half way through the story line in proph.(after the searing now) The White mantle find the sceptor of orr they only thing that can control the titans(why is under vast speculation wether the Murssaat wanted more control over the titans in case the door failed or if the mantle found out that the Lich was Looking for it, which he was). So the Lich now knows the local of the sceptor, but he cant get to it. He uses the army Dhumn/Menzies provided him with and forces the sceptor out of human control. In the Sanctum Kay mission you give him said sceptor, he is then very happy now. Now he uses the flameseeker prophcies against you to find the only way to the fire island and the door. The rest is history, hes gets control of titains and attempts to destory humanity, But you stop him and the titains.



Also to clear up any Mursaat/ Searer relations. Way back when King dorick asked the gods for help, the Mursaat(maybe from elona judging by the wings?)ally with the humans and seeks to destroy the Titains(yes i just said the Mursaat were once the good guys).The Searers i deem by their appareance are closly related to Menzies shadow army(ps they too maybe from elona due to the wings).Just so you know I'm getting the wing=elona idea from the GW Preveiw video where a monster had very white wings. Now the Searers give you a way to protect yourself against the mursaat. Why? Cause the Lich needed you to kill them and find the way to the fire island and the Searers had that means to help you. That clears up the reason why the mursaat knew of the Door and tried to keep it close.



Now the conclusion of the matter. Dhumn/Menzies are battling the 5 Main gods. Both sides used Humans to thier advantage. The Mursaat helped Humans even though they hated the old gods because of the titain threat. the Searers were Like the High Preists of Menzies Shadow army. The titains were too apart of this army. This leaves humans in the middle. I frankly wont coment on what the hell Glint had with anything, she can go either way IMO. Therefore, in NF there will be an all out war as Dhumn/Menzies get really tired of losing all the time and just go all out war in Elona(since mostly the gods will have thier gaze in the dessert, tyria, and cantha) in a surprise move. I expect the Mursaat and possibly the Searers in NF along with Shiro(the ghostly hero anyone?) possibly trying to make things right. Also i expect the 'envoys' here too, we may find out that thier the generals of Menzies and that they act as the four hoursemen of the apocalypse(much like Dhumn Hoursmen in UW).


Anywho just my take/guessing/putting the bits and peices together. This may all very well be just my rambling on, but hey this is my take on it. Now take it as you will.



ps. ill lmao if i get on tonight and find out my accounts been banned for blabing the whole story line of ch. 3 ;P.

also if i have any gaps here refer to Lordhelmos for the fillers.

Mark Nevermiss

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

What I would have liked to see is multiple endings of both campaigns Prophecies and Factions based on your choices. It would be cool if you could end up assissting Shiro if you wanted, for example, ditto for the mursaat.

Ethiops

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2006

Guildless

N/Me

I dont think that the Mursaat were evil overall. They had good intentions (stopping the release of the Titans...which were evil) But just had a bad way of doing it. Humans werent so different, they've killed billions of other species for the preservation of their own, which is all the Mursaat are doing. If anything humans are eviler than the Mursaat, because the Mursaat are actually protecting all of Tyria, including the humans and such. Wouldn't you kill a man, if it was to save the lives of billions?

That and self preservation, which all organisms do, including humans.