Well the assassin didn't have a good time in PvE with 70 armor and little thought of way to defend itself and now the dervishs (with 70 armor too) comes along.
On one hand their spinning attack are powerful with a lot of mcomeonesters could in handy however with 70 armor noobs with no way of creating or skills could swarm the profession and create a sterotype making dervishs excuded from party.
So what do you think is the dervish fate in PvE?
The Dervish Fate in PvE
Guardian of the Light
Hella Good
ugh... all the aoe holy damage? are you kidding me? they will be sought after as much as warriors, if not more. the avatars make dervishes extremely tough. and they have tons of ways to keep their health up. staple pve, very likely. dervishes have much more potential than sins pve. much much more.
Mister_Smiley
Well let first of start with Most sins didn't have a good time in Pve, their are some people who know how to play a sin. I beleive my self to be one of them, hell i'm 1 shi from master title in Factions.(not that most people care about this) But the dervishes most likey will not be any close to what the sins have happened to them. We will just have to wait and see.
unholy guardian
dervishes will rock, although it will take a bit of time before the consentration of the two new classes is a bit down, like factions had the problem as you know.
Maria The Princess
well, i just have the feeling that not to make the mistake of assassins, ANET made Dervishes waaay too overpowered, but Paragn was planned out alittle better, a mix of warior and a ranger?
dargon
Dervishes were a little powerful for the pvp event, thusly, certain things will probably be tweaked to make them a little less superior to most other classes. Wait till a pve event to get a taste of how they've been tweaked (if at all).
Quid Pro Quo
Dervish enchantment managing will be balanced more but the scythe attacks were just fine.. not that anyone knows that though since I was the only person who seemed to use them. Everyone else filled their bar with enchantments and skills that removed them. The Paragons will need more balancing though. There basically ranged warriors with better heals and mixed with monk they could be unstoppable.
Plushie Penguin
I already made a thread about this, and at first they might get the assassin hate, but once builds for pve are formed I think things will settle down.. and from how the heals were during the preview[even though they will be twinked a bit later], they have a better form of healing then assassins
WasAGuest
I'm sure the dervs and paragons will flood the groups for a good while till people have tried them. Long term, as long as Anet doesn't completely bork the class for PvPs sake, then they should be a lot of fun to play with and against (mob Derv bosses could be nasty foes as they stand now).
Sins are a great class when you get someone playing them that knows how to play them, so I imagine the new classes will be the same; good player behind them can make them very powerful.
Sins are a great class when you get someone playing them that knows how to play them, so I imagine the new classes will be the same; good player behind them can make them very powerful.
Chris616263
Nerf their stupid perma-cyclone axe and make them less-ugly and I'm happy.
Kais Unduli
I can't wait to make a pve dervish. I think they'll find their niche in the game, and we may see groups asking for 1 tank and 1 dervish, or some may even forego the tank and just bring along a dervish.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Kais Unduli
I can't wait to make a pve dervish. I think they'll find their niche in the game, and we may see groups asking for 1 tank and 1 dervish, or some may even forego the tank and just bring along a dervish.
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easyg
Why should Dervishes get hate from PvE players? The reason the A/* is despised by PvE groups is cause he's a weakling when it comes to taking on huge mobs of afflicted, which is what Factions PvE is mostly about.
The Dervish will dominate PvE action. The Assassin, on the other hand, is a PvE weakling whose very presence cripples groups. How can anyone compare the two?
The A/* would be great for taking out that one annoying boss NPC, kinda like a domination Mesmer ruled at boss killing in Prophecies. But when there's 20 afflicted swarming all around the group the A/* skill set really sucks, except in the A/R barrage build maybe, but even then the A/R is taking up a place that could be better filled with a nuker or SS necro. Since he is not tanking and not healing nor buffing party members, you are really looking at his damage. Is a crit/barrager doing more damage than a SS necro? Or a echo nuke? Or any other heavy damage build? No way in hell. So yeah, the A/R sucks comparatively.
Anet knows that, and now they are giving us the Dervish - a profession that is everything the A/* is not. A survivor with massive self healing that can go toe-to-toe with any warrior and probably win - without a monk pouring heals onto him. A spiker who spews out armor-ignoring AoE holy damage and conditions on everyone around him. Yeah, this is gonna be great.
Personally, I think the Dervish will spell the end for the Assassin. What people want is a melee character who isn't a warrior. The Assassin was supposed to be that character, but he sucked. Anet learned from its mistake and will give us the Dervish, going to the other extreme. This is a death warrant for the Assassin profession imho.
The Dervish will dominate PvE action. The Assassin, on the other hand, is a PvE weakling whose very presence cripples groups. How can anyone compare the two?
The A/* would be great for taking out that one annoying boss NPC, kinda like a domination Mesmer ruled at boss killing in Prophecies. But when there's 20 afflicted swarming all around the group the A/* skill set really sucks, except in the A/R barrage build maybe, but even then the A/R is taking up a place that could be better filled with a nuker or SS necro. Since he is not tanking and not healing nor buffing party members, you are really looking at his damage. Is a crit/barrager doing more damage than a SS necro? Or a echo nuke? Or any other heavy damage build? No way in hell. So yeah, the A/R sucks comparatively.
Anet knows that, and now they are giving us the Dervish - a profession that is everything the A/* is not. A survivor with massive self healing that can go toe-to-toe with any warrior and probably win - without a monk pouring heals onto him. A spiker who spews out armor-ignoring AoE holy damage and conditions on everyone around him. Yeah, this is gonna be great.
Personally, I think the Dervish will spell the end for the Assassin. What people want is a melee character who isn't a warrior. The Assassin was supposed to be that character, but he sucked. Anet learned from its mistake and will give us the Dervish, going to the other extreme. This is a death warrant for the Assassin profession imho.
Loomy
Scythes do AOE melee damage. They will rule in PVE!
Raxxman
to echo, Dervishes as is will simply takeover everything.
Best solo class, mass dammage, self heals + condition removal)
clearly the best running class (Balth, 33% for huge time + rapid effective hex/condition removal)
Best tanks, mass dammage + self heals + mass condition infliction.
As is Derway would rape any PvE mission (except unwaking waters where they need a ranged interupt) I can think of simply cause its pressure you face and dervishes soak up pressure and fart out AOE attacks like nobodies business.
if the AOE attacks set off running then Dervishes are hardly gonna spend time taking heat as most foes will be limping away, easily the best at dealing with mass hexers
Best solo class, mass dammage, self heals + condition removal)
clearly the best running class (Balth, 33% for huge time + rapid effective hex/condition removal)
Best tanks, mass dammage + self heals + mass condition infliction.
As is Derway would rape any PvE mission (except unwaking waters where they need a ranged interupt) I can think of simply cause its pressure you face and dervishes soak up pressure and fart out AOE attacks like nobodies business.
if the AOE attacks set off running then Dervishes are hardly gonna spend time taking heat as most foes will be limping away, easily the best at dealing with mass hexers
Silver_Fang
maybe the B/P group can take 1 or 2 Dervish to deal ignore armor AoE.
Evilsod
I can see it now...
*buys Nighfall*
*makes Dervish*
*buys Rage of Balthazaar (whatever it was called)*
*casts it expecting all enemies to die at the awesome AoE damage*
*-24 appears from 3 enemies*
Welcome, to the what the eles call, ARMOUR. The dervish will suck so much in high-end PvE. Or of course will Anet suddenly introduce a new patch that causes all enemies to group around the Dervish so they can pretend they do high damage and they didn't screw up?
I like how practically every post seems to be assuming the Dervish isn't going to get nerfed to shit.
*buys Nighfall*
*makes Dervish*
*buys Rage of Balthazaar (whatever it was called)*
*casts it expecting all enemies to die at the awesome AoE damage*
*-24 appears from 3 enemies*
Welcome, to the what the eles call, ARMOUR. The dervish will suck so much in high-end PvE. Or of course will Anet suddenly introduce a new patch that causes all enemies to group around the Dervish so they can pretend they do high damage and they didn't screw up?
I like how practically every post seems to be assuming the Dervish isn't going to get nerfed to shit.
Roupe
Well, the Derwish will have troubler taking on Kephkets underlings in crystal desert. Considering their frequent use of the Well of the Profane
And Anet is sure to increase Well of the Profane on monsters in zone. I wouldnt be suprised if Well of the Profane started appearing in Lornar Pass for instance.
And Anet is sure to increase Well of the Profane on monsters in zone. I wouldnt be suprised if Well of the Profane started appearing in Lornar Pass for instance.
Hella Good
At most they will take about 20-30 off the holy damage skills which would not affect their usage in PvE a lot, because UNLIKE elemental damage, holy damage IGNORES armor. But it would be interesting to toss in Crystal Wavex2 on a Dervish. Yum yum.
Evilsod
Yeah... which is EXACTLY why the Dervish is going to get nerfed to shit. Crystal Wave is adjacent and removed all negetive conditions. Those are less energy, less recharge, bigger radious, higher damage. Balancing at its finest?
Mister_Smiley
We will just have to wait and see what happens, won't we?
Well99
I think they are going to get nerfed big time.Alot of threads from PVP players about nerfing them.I think they should of waited for PVE event before asking for nerf.
As the previous poster said we'll have to wait and see.
As the previous poster said we'll have to wait and see.
Maya Aimi
I have tanked 2 enemies at once, an Air ele and a W/Mo. I killed them both and that made me amazed about the power of the Dervish. I include Conviction stance in my build.
Quid Pro Quo
Of course, Dervishes are good at getting the upperhand when they are out numbered but I killed Dervishes easily when I got them alone on my warrior but in normal pvp without Dervishes my warrior can take down whole groups on his own.
ubermancer
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
At most they will take about 20-30 off the holy damage skills which would not affect their usage in PvE a lot, because UNLIKE elemental damage, holy damage IGNORES armor. But it would be interesting to toss in Crystal Wavex2 on a Dervish. Yum yum.
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Hella Good
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Originally Posted by ubermancer
Just like Judge's Insight, right?
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Edit: JI does NOT give holy damage, it seems to be light damage. Read below.
sgtclarity
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Originally Posted by ubermancer
Just like Judge's Insight, right?
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JI falls into the "pseudo" Holy damage, you can tell because Holy damage normally ignores armor... So why would JI have 20% AP? This leads to the fact that the holy damage given by JI is factored like elemental damage, i.e. fire or cold. The damage by Dervish skills (or atleast the majority) are pure holy damage, meaning they are unaffected by armor.
This is just my speculation, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Skyy High
There are two explanations. Either
1) Holy damage does NOT ignore armor, and the current monk smiting skills should be reworded with "This spell ignores armor", or
2) Holy damage does ignore armor, and JI actually makes you deal light damage, the same kind of damage that smiting staves and wands do, which also does not ignore armor. Both light and holy are doubled vs undead, so the "ignores armor" part would be the only way to tell them apart.
These would mirror the difference between shadow damage appearing to ignore armor, and dark damage from staffs and wands not. Shadow = Holy, Dark = Light. I believe Chaos damage from wands fits in with dark and light, while mesmer armor-ignoring skills simply say the target "takes damage", not specifying the type of damage.
1) Holy damage does NOT ignore armor, and the current monk smiting skills should be reworded with "This spell ignores armor", or
2) Holy damage does ignore armor, and JI actually makes you deal light damage, the same kind of damage that smiting staves and wands do, which also does not ignore armor. Both light and holy are doubled vs undead, so the "ignores armor" part would be the only way to tell them apart.
These would mirror the difference between shadow damage appearing to ignore armor, and dark damage from staffs and wands not. Shadow = Holy, Dark = Light. I believe Chaos damage from wands fits in with dark and light, while mesmer armor-ignoring skills simply say the target "takes damage", not specifying the type of damage.
Hella Good
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Originally Posted by sgtclarity
No, AFAIK, there are two types of "Holy" damage.
JI falls into the "pseudo" Holy damage, you can tell because Holy damage normally ignores armor... So why would JI have 20% AP? This leads to the fact that the holy damage given by JI is factored like elemental damage, i.e. fire or cold. The damage by Dervish skills (or atleast the majority) are pure holy damage, meaning they are unaffected by armor. This is just my speculation, please correct me if I'm wrong. |
Edit: I tested JI and it is clearly affected by armor, so I would go with the explanation that the damage is light, not holy. The only difference between light and holy damage is that light is affected by armor. But otherwise they both do double damage to undead and + damage to certain necro armors.
easyg
The two kinds of holy damage are:
1) Holy damage spells. These completely ignore armour. A Dervish with 15 mysticism will spike exactly 88 damage with Heart of Holy Flame, no matter what he's facing (except undead, who will take 176!).
2) The second kind of holy damage is from a weapon dealing "holy damage". I.e. Judges Insight or the secondary effect of Heart of Holy Flame (i.e. deal holy damage for 30 seconds). Armour factors in here, but even this second type of holy damage is damned good to have, cause whereas a lot of monsters have an armour bonus against certain kinds of physical or elemental damage, nothing has a bonus against holy damage from weapons.
As someone else said, the Dervish has two spells that spike Holy Damage, and both have great secondary effects not even counting the energy and hitpoint regen provided by Mysticism. If the Derv already has an enchantment on, Heart of Holy Flame will be a free cast (it causes one enchantment to be removed, thus triggering all the cool Mysticism benefits). Even better, it's an enchantment in itself, meaning it can be followed by Pious Signet for healing, or yet another damage spike, causing more health and energy regen.
This turns into a self-perpectuating cycle where the Dervish is always regenerating energy and health while spewing out AOE damage at the same time. This is why some people are looking at the D/Mo as a super-duper mega farmer to replace the Mo/W.
Personally, I also think the Derv will be nerfed big time, because this is just going to be too easy to exploit of mega farming. But who knows when Anet will get around to correcting this? As a part-time PvP guy, I don't want the Dervish to be too powerful for PvP. But as a part-time PvEr, I drool at D/Mo's possibilities as a cash cow.
1) Holy damage spells. These completely ignore armour. A Dervish with 15 mysticism will spike exactly 88 damage with Heart of Holy Flame, no matter what he's facing (except undead, who will take 176!).
2) The second kind of holy damage is from a weapon dealing "holy damage". I.e. Judges Insight or the secondary effect of Heart of Holy Flame (i.e. deal holy damage for 30 seconds). Armour factors in here, but even this second type of holy damage is damned good to have, cause whereas a lot of monsters have an armour bonus against certain kinds of physical or elemental damage, nothing has a bonus against holy damage from weapons.
As someone else said, the Dervish has two spells that spike Holy Damage, and both have great secondary effects not even counting the energy and hitpoint regen provided by Mysticism. If the Derv already has an enchantment on, Heart of Holy Flame will be a free cast (it causes one enchantment to be removed, thus triggering all the cool Mysticism benefits). Even better, it's an enchantment in itself, meaning it can be followed by Pious Signet for healing, or yet another damage spike, causing more health and energy regen.
This turns into a self-perpectuating cycle where the Dervish is always regenerating energy and health while spewing out AOE damage at the same time. This is why some people are looking at the D/Mo as a super-duper mega farmer to replace the Mo/W.
Personally, I also think the Derv will be nerfed big time, because this is just going to be too easy to exploit of mega farming. But who knows when Anet will get around to correcting this? As a part-time PvP guy, I don't want the Dervish to be too powerful for PvP. But as a part-time PvEr, I drool at D/Mo's possibilities as a cash cow.
Hella Good
So HoHFlame and AoBalthazar make the attacks deal light damage? The way I understand it, holy and light damage are terms used to refer to the same type of damage caused- in the former case- spells and- in the latter- weapon attacks. The only difference being the lack of armor-ignoring in the case of light damage.
Rogmar
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
Holy damage, shadow damage, and life stealing are the only armor ignoring damage types (excluding certain spells that simply deal damage).
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Horseman Of War
yeah if you have a dervish you will probably be able to solo just about anywhere with little or no solo-build experience.
You guys think D/Mos are bad... hopefully there will be plenty of other uber builds to explore... like D/R, D/Rt, D/E, etc
You guys think D/Mos are bad... hopefully there will be plenty of other uber builds to explore... like D/R, D/Rt, D/E, etc
Lucifer PVP
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Originally Posted by Rogmar
Because Chaos Damage doesn't exist.
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Align
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
Yeah... which is EXACTLY why the Dervish is going to get nerfed to shit. Crystal Wave is adjacent and removed all negetive conditions. Those are less energy, less recharge, bigger radious, higher damage. Balancing at its finest?
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Like crystal wave, except no exhaustion and INFLICTS conditions.
Hella Good
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Originally Posted by Align
Now that you mention it, what the hell?
Like crystal wave, except no exhaustion and INFLICTS conditions. |
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Originally Posted by Rogmar
Because Chaos Damage doesn't exist.
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