A common theme throughout Guru's threads is that most people with large sums of money got it from ebay. Now in their defense, the people that are posting this crap are usually new (0-3 months playing). They are generally envious and/or jealous; figuring the only way to make themselves feel better is to try to bash the people who have been playing this game for over a year. In order to cut down on the number of new threads regarding "How can I be rich?", "Why are things so expensive?", "How come my pre-sear character doesnt spawn with FoW armor?", I will answer all the general questions here.
1. Why are items 100k+? Who would buy at these outrageous prices?
Items are 100k+ecto because there are still a number of items in this game that are extremely hard to find (though the numbers are decreasing daily). Crystallines, Dwarvens, Serpents, Magmas, Mursaat items, req 7 15%, and to a lesser extent, Storm Bows, Shadow Shields, Fellblades, Zodiac items. If you have a req 7 or req 8 15>50 item, chances are it could go for over 100k because there are still a small number of collectors in the game that pay premiums for perfect req items. The people who buy at these prices have generally been playing the game for over a year, have accumulated a decent amount of money and ecto, have 15k armor for their characters, and have nothing to really spend their money on... besides perfect items.
2. But... but... I want perfect items too! ANET can you please give me perfect items?
Oh, but they already have given you perfect items. Green items with perfect stats, collectors items (with "cooler" skins in Cantha), and lets not forget that they gave you chests. ANET gave you Greens and chest with keys at the same time last September. Then, with the release of Factions, ANET changed Gold Items so they spawn with 14-15% mods, rather than the previous 12-15%. The same gold items often spawn with two near perfect mods (20/19 sundering and +29). And Purples! Yes, now Purple items can drop with 14>50 mods on them. I think ANET has done a fine job of handing you everything you asked for.
3. But... but... I don't want Green or Collector's items. They make me feel inferior. I want Gold Items. What can ANET do for me?
If you feel inferior for using Green/Collector's items, that is an issue you should talk to your therapist about. How many times have you been in a PUG and someone asked you if you were using a Green item? That is right, never. And you can get a 15>50 Gold item in most all of the desireable skins for 10-50k. They will, however, be req 10-13.
4. But... but... I want req 8 perfect items.
Then you are going to have to work a bit. ANET has provided you with many options to play the game with perfect items: 10/10 and 20/20 Staves, 15>50 Weapons, +30/10% Offhands, +30/-2 or 5(20%) Shields, etc. If these are not good enough for you, then you will have to farm or chest run or trade or find another way to make some money. You have everything here to put you on par with the people that have been playing for over a year. If you have to have the perfect req, perfect skin, perfect mod item to make yourself feel leet, then stop asking ANET for help.
5. What about FoW armor? Every noob with a credit card can buy it on ebay.
There are some people that do this. But the majority of people have accumulated the wealth over the last year. PvE-ers farming and running, PvP-ers winning HoH and cashing in Sigils and selling rare items, or just hanging out in LA d1 all day trading. So please don't tarnish their reputations by assuming that the majority ebays.
~Cap
The Haves and the Have Nots...
capitalist
Loviatar
/THANK YOU
i am one of the have nots as.................
i dont have a single rare/rare skin item to my name
everything i have is junk (the prices prove this)
a 19/19 or even ....gasp.........a 18/19 sells for a pittence.
and if it is........horror of horrors.........only a purple it is a give it away price.
i have.........sob...........only basic Drok/Kaineng armor ..........worse yet i like the original undyed color.
i can afford better but maybe something in chapter 3/4 will really be just what i want so i save for then instead of blowing it now just to impress a few people now
Terra Xin
I only collect greens, golds are too far out of my reach, and... well, if you feel special having a gold that is more rare than... anything in the game, then... good for you^^.
Cebe
But...but...this is so going to turn into a nasty war between the "haves" and the "have nots" as you put it. The "haves" will continually brag about what they have and the "have nots" will throw insults around the place. Maybe one of the mods shoud use their "elite skill" on this thread and close it before that happens!!
milias
Nicely put capitalist! Hopely this will cut down the amount of complaining and give us old school players some peace and quiet 
Jetdoc
Excellent post, capitalist. In short:
Almost every perumtation of "perfect" item is available either through a collector or a green item. Very few green items exceed 100K, let alone 50K.
Granted, all of those items have a 9 requirement, but in the end, how many times do you find yourself only having enough points in your build for an 8 or 7 requirement? To dispel a common myth, there is ABSOLUTELY no benefit to exceeding your requirement...whether you just barely meet the requirement or exceed it by 7 levels - it does EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
If you have a chip on your shoulder because you can't get the exact statistics you want on the exact skin you want, then you simply need to (1) find ways to accumulate the cash to get your heart's desire or (2) get over it. 99% of you should pursue #2, in order not to become bitter, as many of those have who post about the economy being broken. It's really hard for an individual to separate NEED from DESIRE, but it's very easy for third parties to spot that in your threads.
Almost every perumtation of "perfect" item is available either through a collector or a green item. Very few green items exceed 100K, let alone 50K.
Granted, all of those items have a 9 requirement, but in the end, how many times do you find yourself only having enough points in your build for an 8 or 7 requirement? To dispel a common myth, there is ABSOLUTELY no benefit to exceeding your requirement...whether you just barely meet the requirement or exceed it by 7 levels - it does EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
If you have a chip on your shoulder because you can't get the exact statistics you want on the exact skin you want, then you simply need to (1) find ways to accumulate the cash to get your heart's desire or (2) get over it. 99% of you should pursue #2, in order not to become bitter, as many of those have who post about the economy being broken. It's really hard for an individual to separate NEED from DESIRE, but it's very easy for third parties to spot that in your threads.
Venice Queen
"and lets not forget that they gave you chests."
You mean took away chests? Chest running was a lot more fun before anet layed down the nerf and locked everything up.
You mean took away chests? Chest running was a lot more fun before anet layed down the nerf and locked everything up.
MSecorsky
Just a pending battle of 'elitists' vs. 'zens'.
Elitists want it all for them, Zens want balance for all.
The sides will never meet, this thread will degrade to flame wars, Inde or some other will close.
"I'm using Shroud of Silence on this thread!"
Elitists want it all for them, Zens want balance for all.
The sides will never meet, this thread will degrade to flame wars, Inde or some other will close.
"I'm using Shroud of Silence on this thread!"
Rent
I'm not sure why people who worked to earn what they have are labeled elitists.
Demesis
I still can't help but think FoW armor wearers are noobs. I've seen far too many wammos wearing FoW armor and not knowing what they're doing.
Unless you can prove to me with reliable statistics that the majority of FoW wearers aern't Ebayers, I'll have to stick with my current observations.
Unless you can prove to me with reliable statistics that the majority of FoW wearers aern't Ebayers, I'll have to stick with my current observations.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Rent
I'm not sure why people who worked to earn what they have are labeled elitists.
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I know that sounds reasonable on the surface, but consider what this game is about... it's a balance based game, not an uber-item uber-levelling for power game. As such, the game requires balancing often on skills, has level and attrubute point caps, and requires that everyone can be kept on an even footing regarding equipment. Those with gold to burn can get their obsidian armor and the like, that's very nice. Those of us with limited time and in possession of lives outside of GW should still have an easy time of getting max weapons to allow us to compete in the arenas on an even footing however.
Cjlr
It's because some people fail to realize just how long fifteen months is.
People complain because they don't have 100k after a week of playing. They can go to hell.
Earning money is absurdly easy. It's as simple as just playing the game. You'd have to be spending a whole lot of time doing nothing in order to not make at least 1k/hour. After hundreds, if not thousands, of hours, guess what? Some people have actually accumulated a positive balance! Go figure...
People complain because they don't have 100k after a week of playing. They can go to hell.
Earning money is absurdly easy. It's as simple as just playing the game. You'd have to be spending a whole lot of time doing nothing in order to not make at least 1k/hour. After hundreds, if not thousands, of hours, guess what? Some people have actually accumulated a positive balance! Go figure...
Curse You
I personally am fine with just using my greens and collector items. Once Factions came out, there were just the right stats on certain greens and collector items that I could finnally make a set I liked the stats of.
When I get a gold that has Req 7 or 8, I sell it. I don't have a need for it because 1) I have my greens, 2) I know that lower req doesn't mean more damage.
I find the fact people will pay so much more for something that just LOOKS better, quite funny. (yea, I have one 15k armor set out of five characters)
When I get a gold that has Req 7 or 8, I sell it. I don't have a need for it because 1) I have my greens, 2) I know that lower req doesn't mean more damage.
I find the fact people will pay so much more for something that just LOOKS better, quite funny. (yea, I have one 15k armor set out of five characters)
Rent
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Those of us with limited time and in possession of lives outside of GW should still have an easy time of getting max weapons to allow us to compete in the arenas on an even footing however.
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Those who care only about stats can get collector's/weaponsmith stuff with little to no difficulty, and those who care about appearance can work to save money to afford Obsidian armor/Crystallines/whatever else. Doesn't it work as-is? I don't understand why there are any complaints from either camp.
Demesis
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Originally Posted by Cjlr
It's because some people fail to realize just how long fifteen months is.
People complain because they don't have 100k after a week of playing. They can go to hell. Earning money is absurdly easy. It's as simple as just playing the game. You'd have to be spending a whole lot of time doing nothing in order to not make at least 1k/hour. After hundreds, if not thousands, of hours, guess what? Some people have actually accumulated a positive balance! Go figure... |
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Rent
Doesn't it work as-is? I don't understand why there are any complaints from either camp.
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Personally, I believe that more available for all is great for the community. Others don't, and it's almost always the "haves" that complain the loudest.
Cjlr
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Originally Posted by Demesis
I don't get it.
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After all, how much "money" you have is, in a game like this, almost always directly related to how much time you spent earning that money.
It's like complaining that your entry-level position doesn't pay as high as much as your manager earns.
milias
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Personally, I believe that more available for all is great for the community. Others don't, and it's almost always the "haves" that complain the loudest.
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Moreover, by redistributing wealth, you help some people, but you hurt others. Some people will be happy, and some will be upset. I think right now, it's best to maintain the status quo, because in any case, ANet does not want to see upset customers, be it the "haves" or the "have-nots".
capitalist
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
It does indeed, actually... the OPs original complaint (from other posts) stems around ANet having the chest event this weekend, making it easier for people to get golds from chests. His concerns over prices for his items losing mythical value is what began the haves-have nots/ elitists argument.
Personally, I believe that more available for all is great for the community. Others don't, and it's almost always the "haves" that complain the loudest. |
I am not sure if there is any information in the OP that is really open for debate. No derogatory statements were made, it outlined what options are available (running, farming, chests, trading, HAing), and what ANET has done. If you really want to debate the FoW ebayer issue, fine. There will never be any actual statistics to support either side.
This will not start a "flame war" or some sort of "elite vs zen" battle. We were all noobs when we started this game... remember that.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by milias
I tend to disagree. Just like IRL, this is how Capitalism should and does work. Capitalism does not guarantee equal wealth for all, for that, you'd have to look into Socialism or Communism. While those forms of government look good on paper, they don't work in practice.
Moreover, by redistributing wealth, you help some people, but you hurt others. Some people will be happy, and some will be upset. I think right now, it's best to maintain the status quo, because in any case, ANet does not want to see upset customers, be it the "haves" or the "have-nots". |
Guild Wars, however, was not designed to be a capitalistic society. Hey, I'm as much a capitalist as Capitalist in real life, no doubts. However, in this game, the underlying concept of balance and equality trumps what we're used to seeing in the real world.
This isn't the real world, it's a game. Different concepts apply. Different patterns of thought are required.
No one mentioned redistributing wealth, by the way. No one that has will lose. Those that don't can get more easily. This is a good thing.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by capitalist
Please do not start guessing what this post stemmed from (other posts are just that, other posts). It has nothing to do with the chest event. It has everything to do with this subforum being filled with "How come I can't have" and "Why does he get" threads.
I am not sure if there is any information in the OP that is really open for debate. No derogatory statements were made, it outlined what options are available (running, farming, chests, trading, HAing), and what ANET has done. If you really want to debate the FoW ebayer issue, fine. There will never be any actual statistics to support either side. This will not start a "flame war" or some sort of "elite vs zen" battle. We were all noobs when we started this game... remember that. |
Any post is opinion and open to debate when posted. As for the eBay issue... my only real issue with them is the fact that people are stupid enough to spend real money on virtual items... things that don't exist. It really doesn't present a flattering view of our species.
And yes, we were all noobs when we started... the real question is who will still be noobs when they finish.
Rent
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Guild Wars, however, was not designed to be a capitalistic society.
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Crotalus
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Originally Posted by capitalist
the people that are posting this crap are usually new (0-3 months playing).
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MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Rent
What? GW is a free market at its purest.
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milias
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Guild Wars, however, was not designed to be a capitalistic society. Hey, I'm as much a capitalist as Capitalist in real life, no doubts. However, in this game, the underlying concept of balance and equality trumps what we're used to seeing in the real world.
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It's true that balance should take precedence, but I fail to see how equality in terms of wealth should also take precedence. How good of a player you are should not and does not depend on how rich you are in-game. A good player with collector items and 1.5k armor can easily beat a bad player with "perfect" items and Fissure armor.
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
This isn't the real world, it's a game. Different concepts apply. Different patterns of thought are required.
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
No one mentioned redistributing wealth, by the way. No one that has will lose. Those that don't can get more easily. This is a good thing.
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Just as an example, for me personally, I lost over 1 mil when ANet released Factions and the update that significantly increased drop quality. I think it's a misconception to think that what benefits one group of people won't adversely affect another group.
Curse You
I was thinking one day and I realised something. An EQUAL form of government or economy will NEVER work as long as there is money. Someone will always end up with more.
That gives me an idea.
If they wanted GW to be equal, why would they have included money in the game? If nothing cost anything, and nothing could be sold for anything, then all people would be forever equal (in a sense).
Do you really want it so that everyone can just walk up to a merchant and get 250 ectos for nothing? Do you want there to be no money? If not, stop talking about equality, because it will never happen while money still exists.
That gives me an idea.
If they wanted GW to be equal, why would they have included money in the game? If nothing cost anything, and nothing could be sold for anything, then all people would be forever equal (in a sense).
Do you really want it so that everyone can just walk up to a merchant and get 250 ectos for nothing? Do you want there to be no money? If not, stop talking about equality, because it will never happen while money still exists.
Loviatar
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Originally Posted by milias
I
Moreover, by redistributing wealth, you help some people, but you hurt others.". |
many people will have a chance to get the item they could not possibly afford to buy so sellers are not losing sales to those who could not buy anyway.
since it is a weekend event the market price of those items will not be affected much if any as the number of items grabbed over one weekend is tiny compared to the normal supply/demand of those items.
the sup absorbs crashed in price due to a permanent supply increase and would not have moved a hair at a single weekend event
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by milias
You're right, this is a game. However, keep in mind that this game was not developed in a vaccuum outside the real world. Players also come to this game with preconceived notions from real life about how things should work in-game.
It's true that balance should take precedence, but I fail to see how equality in terms of wealth should also take precedence. How good of a player you are should not and does not depend on how rich you are in-game. A good player with collector items and 1.5k armor can easily beat a bad player with "perfect" items and Fissure armor. |
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| The concepts are not so different. Most concepts in-game are derived from real world concepts. Plus as I mentioned before, people come to this game with preconceived notions from their experiences in real life. |
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Well, that is essentially what new players (or the "have-nots") are asking. If everyone had "perfect" items, then the price of "perfect" items would plummet, thus hurting the original owners of such "perfect" items. Just as an example, for me personally, I lost over 1 mil when ANet released Factions and the update that significantly increased drop quality. I think it's a misconception to think that what benefits one group of people won't adversely affect another group. |
Point is, this game is designed such that wealth is irrelevant. It's the players that artificially add relevance to wealth, and thus wind up the most miserable when events occur that tend to benefit everyone equally.
milias
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
to be honest this event does not apply in any way to the redistribution of wealth so nobody loses.
many people will have a chance to get the item they could not possibly afford to buy so sellers are not losing sales to those who could not buy anyway. since it is a weekend event the market price of those items will not be affected much if any as the number of items grabbed over one weekend is tiny compared to the normal supply/demand of those items. the sup absorbs crashed in price due to a permanent supply increase and would not have moved a hair at a single weekend event |
We were talking about it in general terms
Silent Kitty
Everybody is equal here. Money is easily gained, if you know how to count and pick up stuff while you kill stuff. I don't have a farm build whatsoever and still I have some good stuff un my storage as well as at least 100K gold.
I don't care about FoW armour and things like that. I'll just buy max armour, a good stuff and black dye for the armour. That is all. I call myself rich, though many here prolly smirk when I tell what I have.
I don't spam WTS either.
I don't care about FoW armour and things like that. I'll just buy max armour, a good stuff and black dye for the armour. That is all. I call myself rich, though many here prolly smirk when I tell what I have.
I don't spam WTS either.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Curse You
I was thinking one day and I realised something. An EQUAL form of government or economy will NEVER work as long as there is money. Someone will always end up with more.
That gives me an idea. If they wanted GW to be equal, why would they have included money in the game? If nothing cost anything, and nothing could be sold for anything, then all people would be forever equal (in a sense). Do you really want it so that everyone can just walk up to a merchant and get 250 ectos for nothing? Do you want there to be no money? If not, stop talking about equality, because it will never happen while money still exists. |
Rent
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
No, people have instituted a free market style out of habit in a game that is designed to support a more balanced economy.
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capitalist
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Originally Posted by milias
I agree, because I wasn't talking about the weekend event, and neither was capitalist (please correct me capitalist, if I'm wrong)
We were talking about it in general terms |
There are plenty of other threads about the weekend. This is about the game as a whole.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Rent
I don't see how releasing a game and saying "go nuts" is designing it for a balanced economy.
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Rusty Deth
Hey i just got a kick butt purple...
14>50. Added the sundering and fortitude mods I been saving and now its the cats meow.
14>50. Added the sundering and fortitude mods I been saving and now its the cats meow.
Rent
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
It's designed for a balanced economy because it's designed for balanced play. There are things to spend on, sure, like obsidian armors. But these are nothing more than gold sinks, to remove wealth from the economy. You gain no benefit over 1.5K armor. Same as 'rare' skins... same stats, same benefits. They took into account that there will be some wealth and made it irrelevant.
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milias
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Not so much wealth... wealth is, believe it or not, irrelevant to GW. Things are what I'm talking about. Say I find a perfect Jade axe, for example, and it has the same stats as your perfect zodiac. That's the equality I'm talking about, which events like this weekends will promote.
Moreso different in GW than in other games, such as WoW. In WoW, wealth directly affects how powerful you are (so I hear...never played it...). In GW, it doesn't/shouldn't |
Again, I wasn't talking about the event, I personally like these events very much.
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
No, no you didn't. You lost nothing. The 1 mil never existed. If you gave away all your virtual 'wealth', save for the items you enjoy the best for playing the game, your gameplay would not be adversely affected whatsoever. Having ten perfect uber-leet items doesn't help you when you can only equip one. (Yes, I know that some people change weapons per situation... that's different.)
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Take paper money for instance. Is it worth anything by itself? Not really, they would serve as nice bookmarks, but that's about it. It's the value vested in them by the federal government that makes it valuable. It's the promise that when you present a $10 bill at a fast food restaurant, you can get a hamburger, that really matters. By the same token, if I were to sell my items before Factions, I could have gotten over 1 mil (in fact, I spent over 1 mil to acquire them); but after Factions, I could barely get 200k for them.
Take another example, stocks. You buy stocks for their perceived value. If the stock market crashes, you do indeed lose money, as evident in the fact that people do in fact do stupid things, like jumping out of a building, when this happens. Certainly, it's not as serious as that in-game, but the concept still applies.
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Point is, this game is designed such that wealth is irrelevant. It's the players that artificially add relevance to wealth, and thus wind up the most miserable when events occur that tend to benefit everyone equally.
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MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by milias
It's true that wealth does not affect gameplay in Guild Wars as much as it does in other games, but that doesn't make it irrelevent. Getting "perfect" items is the end-game content for many people, myself included. The reason why ANet introduced rare skins into the game at all is so that, in my opinion, hardcore PvE players would have something to do after they have beat the game for the umpteenth time.
Again, I wasn't talking about the event, I personally like these events very much. |
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Heh, that's another misconception, in my opinion Take paper money for instance. Is it worth anything by itself? Not really, they would serve as nice bookmarks, but that's about it. It's the value vested in them by the federal government that makes it valuable. It's the promise that when you present a $10 bill at a fast food restaurant, you can get a hamburger, that really matters. By the same token, if I were to sell my items before Factions, I could have gotten over 1 mil (in fact, I spent over 1 mil to acquire them); but after Factions, I could barely get 200k for them. Take another example, stocks. You buy stocks for their perceived value. If the stock market crashes, you do indeed lose money, as evident in the fact that people do in fact do stupid things, like jumping out of a building, when this happens. Certainly, it's not as serious as that in-game, but the concept still applies. |
Aside from the health effects caused by stress I suppose... but we'd all be in that boat...
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| For the casual player, you're probably right. They have access to green/collector items, and they couldn't care less about the gold "perfect" items. However, it is my opinion that, if you want something "nice", you have to work to obtain it. There is no free lunch, in real life or in game. |
milias
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
However, $10 bills, hamburgers and the stock market exist. If ANet turned off thier servers tonight and went home, you've lost nothing in real life.
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
And my mind wanders to the PvP character generation...
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fgarvin
C'mon, really guys. When playing, all you see is your character's head and your Guild's cape. Who really cares what your weapons look like, and I can honestly say that I have no idea what any of my Guildies were weilding last night while we went through the last few missions.
I'll bet my req8 15^50 Wingblade does just as much damage as your req8 15^50 Felblade.
There will always be the haves and the have nots. Some players have eight hours a day to play, while others are lucky to get in four solid hours a week. Others get very lucky with drops while others are consistantly cursed with average drops..(I'd been playing for over 10 months before I got a drop worth more then 100k, and before that, my biggest, and pretty much only sale worth mentioning, was a mere 45k).
That's just the way of things...simple as that.
I'll bet my req8 15^50 Wingblade does just as much damage as your req8 15^50 Felblade.
There will always be the haves and the have nots. Some players have eight hours a day to play, while others are lucky to get in four solid hours a week. Others get very lucky with drops while others are consistantly cursed with average drops..(I'd been playing for over 10 months before I got a drop worth more then 100k, and before that, my biggest, and pretty much only sale worth mentioning, was a mere 45k).
That's just the way of things...simple as that.