I was just wondering if is worth putting points into strength even if i dont have any skills in it, or only a few. Does the few points of armour pentration make enough difference to justify the use of points in strength?
Could someone answer my question?
Thanks
~A Leprechaun~
STRENGTH: is it worth the points?
A Leprechaun
icedragon981
If I'm not using any strength skills I usually just put some left over points into it, nothing major.
Draxx
Dolyacks Baby!
And for Sentinals Armor... Considering we now get slaughtered by Elemental Damage the higher the better.
IMO.
It works for me.
And for Sentinals Armor... Considering we now get slaughtered by Elemental Damage the higher the better.
IMO.
It works for me.
shadow39365
well i could talk about skills but that isnt why you asked, to be honest, 10 is enough and always will be enough for a standard build, anything over that is not really required. It does make a difference. Lets take a look at Frost Wurms, they don't have anymore HP than your average enemy but they just have stupidly high armour, using Strength against those types of creatures is useful? yes it is. Strength applies a damage bonus depending on enemy armour and if i am thinking correctly (pardon me, tired today) then the higher an enemy's armour the higher the damage bonus applied.
EDIT: sorry the phrase "standard build" is quite vague, i mean if you were to run high weapon mastery and use mostly attack skills, if you were to run a strong tanking build high Strength for Dolyaks Signet is nice
However if you are in an area with primarily Squishy enemies with low armour probably not going above 70 base armour (and no bonus vs physical) Strength becomes less useful because the damage bonus applied from Strength becomes rather obselete due to their innate lack of armour anyway.
So overall i would say look at what types of enemies your facing, if your facing a lot of Warriors then put your strength up to 10/11 (i say 11 because a nice balance of Attributes for me is 15 Weapon, 11 Strength, 11 Tactics). So it's purely situational.
A quick note about skills, there are a few good Strength skills i'd recommend, Dolyak's Signet is a brilliant skill, shoving a few more ranks into Strength is a good idea for Dolyak Sig. You might use Rush to maintain a speed boost against enemies which don't like to stay in your aggro and so you can easily manipulate the aggro onto you.
But yeah, generally its situational, hope this helps
EDIT: sorry the phrase "standard build" is quite vague, i mean if you were to run high weapon mastery and use mostly attack skills, if you were to run a strong tanking build high Strength for Dolyaks Signet is nice
However if you are in an area with primarily Squishy enemies with low armour probably not going above 70 base armour (and no bonus vs physical) Strength becomes less useful because the damage bonus applied from Strength becomes rather obselete due to their innate lack of armour anyway.
So overall i would say look at what types of enemies your facing, if your facing a lot of Warriors then put your strength up to 10/11 (i say 11 because a nice balance of Attributes for me is 15 Weapon, 11 Strength, 11 Tactics). So it's purely situational.
A quick note about skills, there are a few good Strength skills i'd recommend, Dolyak's Signet is a brilliant skill, shoving a few more ranks into Strength is a good idea for Dolyak Sig. You might use Rush to maintain a speed boost against enemies which don't like to stay in your aggro and so you can easily manipulate the aggro onto you.
But yeah, generally its situational, hope this helps
Hephaestus Ram
I tried to detect a differance on the +100 armor dummy. After beating
it down 5x each with 12 in str and 0 in str, I added the number of hits
it took up and divided them by five. Both ways it came out to the same
number of hits to destroy the target.
So... as far as I can tell, it does nothing outside the strength based
skills. I still put some in anyway if I'm using a strength based shield.
it down 5x each with 12 in str and 0 in str, I added the number of hits
it took up and divided them by five. Both ways it came out to the same
number of hits to destroy the target.
So... as far as I can tell, it does nothing outside the strength based
skills. I still put some in anyway if I'm using a strength based shield.
Zui
It only works on Attack skills, so the only reason to put points into it is when you're running skills in the Strength line, or just to spend leftover attribute points.
Zakarr
I guess Strength attribute passive effect is a bit weaker compared to other primary attributes but nowadays it has 100 armor set which requires rank 13 strength. Balances a bit for special builds at least.
shadow39365
i think Strength is possibly the worst primary out there actually.
When you have the awesomeness of Expertise, Soul Reapin and Divine Favour.
When you have the awesomeness of Expertise, Soul Reapin and Divine Favour.
milias
Strenght is usually "required" for warriors in PvP, since warriors are usually damage dealers in PvP. In PvE, it depends. There're stance tanks that invest heavily in Tactics for stances, and there're Strength warriors who invest a lot of points in Strength. Personally, I put points in Strength and Tactics.
I usually do:
Strength: 11+1+3
Tactics: 11+1
Sword: 8+1
Protection: 2
Smite: 3
Skills:
Dolyak Signet (constant +40 AL)
"Watch Yourself" (constant +20 AL)
Defy Pain {E} (constant +20 AL and +300 life)
Endure Pain (for emergencies)
Disciplined Stance (hit this when you first charge in)
Smite Hex (gets rid of hex and does 25 AoE damage)
Purge Conditions/Mend Ailment (gets rid of conditions)
Rebirth (self-explanatory)
I was tanking 20 something Avicaras with this build, and I tanked a whole bunch of Shadow Warriors wacking at me for 5 minutes by myself when the rest of the team was dead (I was surrounded and stuck >.<), but this was before the damage reduction nerf, of course.
I usually do:
Strength: 11+1+3
Tactics: 11+1
Sword: 8+1
Protection: 2
Smite: 3
Skills:
Dolyak Signet (constant +40 AL)
"Watch Yourself" (constant +20 AL)
Defy Pain {E} (constant +20 AL and +300 life)
Endure Pain (for emergencies)
Disciplined Stance (hit this when you first charge in)
Smite Hex (gets rid of hex and does 25 AoE damage)
Purge Conditions/Mend Ailment (gets rid of conditions)
Rebirth (self-explanatory)
I was tanking 20 something Avicaras with this build, and I tanked a whole bunch of Shadow Warriors wacking at me for 5 minutes by myself when the rest of the team was dead (I was surrounded and stuck >.<), but this was before the damage reduction nerf, of course.
Yanman.be
milias, Strength isn't required for warriors in PvP, because it adds about 0.00001% damage? You want Strength for the skills ( sprint, the armour ignoring part of bull's strike etc. ). Not for the inherent effect.
Slainster
quite interesting actually, ive never really thought about the impact of strength unless im using skills directly related. is there a way to "prove" what strength is doing anyone?
This is Brad
Strength only triggers upon the use of attack skills. I will outline a simple test to show this.
You will need Wild Blow and a Speed Boost. Set your Strength to be as high as possible.
Go to the Isle of the Nameless, find the ranger NPC that just runs around (Master of Survival I believe). Press your speed boost and autoattack, you will autocritical because she is running from you.
Record this number.
This is your critical hit damage base.
Now, Press your speed boost and use Wild Blow on her. You will notice that the amount of damage has increased, but this is still just a critical hit (just like the critical hit you get when a target runs from you).
You can repeat this test with varying amounts of strength. Note: If you have 0 strength, the 2 numbers should be identical.
The only explanation is that Strength only triggers off of attack skills and not off of innate autoattacking.
Personally (for GvG primarily), I will only spec 9-10 into strength, and then use 10-11 in tactics and 14 weapon mastery.
You will need Wild Blow and a Speed Boost. Set your Strength to be as high as possible.
Go to the Isle of the Nameless, find the ranger NPC that just runs around (Master of Survival I believe). Press your speed boost and autoattack, you will autocritical because she is running from you.
Record this number.
This is your critical hit damage base.
Now, Press your speed boost and use Wild Blow on her. You will notice that the amount of damage has increased, but this is still just a critical hit (just like the critical hit you get when a target runs from you).
You can repeat this test with varying amounts of strength. Note: If you have 0 strength, the 2 numbers should be identical.
The only explanation is that Strength only triggers off of attack skills and not off of innate autoattacking.
Personally (for GvG primarily), I will only spec 9-10 into strength, and then use 10-11 in tactics and 14 weapon mastery.
milias
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yanman.be
milias, Strength isn't required for warriors in PvP, because it adds about 0.00001% damage? You want Strength for the skills ( sprint, the armour ignoring part of bull's strike etc. ). Not for the inherent effect.
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Against a 60 AL target, without armor penetration, if your base damage is 50 with 12 Axe Mastery when using a skill, you do:
50 * 2 ^ ((60 - 60) / 40) = 50 damage
But if you figure in Strength and armor penetration, you get:
50 * 2 ^ ((60 - 60 * 0.9) / 40) = 55.48 damage
which is even better than a Vampiric mod.
Gafgarion
This is Brad is right, the armor penetration provided by strenght is only applied to attack skills, not normal attacks. It even says so in the description (hover mouse over attribute).
Even then, I think Strenght should be buffed to inflict AP on normal attacks. I mean, at 10 str you'd have 10% AP. On a 60 AL target that only accounts for 6 armor, which isn't really that much at all.
Even then, I think Strenght should be buffed to inflict AP on normal attacks. I mean, at 10 str you'd have 10% AP. On a 60 AL target that only accounts for 6 armor, which isn't really that much at all.
fallot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by milias
Agreed, it's not required per se, but people usually invest quite a bit in Strength in PvP. If you're an axe warrior, you're constantly spamming skills. Say you have 10 in Strength, that's 10% armor penetration when using skills.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by milias
which is even better than a Vampiric mod.
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Its safe to say that the inherent effect of Strength, disregarding skills associated with it, is amongst the worst in the game.
milias
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fallot
It is not required *at all*. There just aren't many attributes that a warrior would need to spec into and Strength is your Rush/Sprint/Bull's attribute after all. Besides that, its useless.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fallot
Wrong and right at the same time. It dealt more damage than Vampiric would on a single hit, but the comparison is so utterly pointless its almost laughable. As long as it only procs on attack skills, this attribute is not worth a significant investment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fallot
Its safe to say that the inherent effect of Strength, disregarding skills associated with it, is amongst the worst in the game.
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fallot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by milias
Strenght is usually "required" for warriors in PvP, since warriors are usually damage dealers in PvP.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by milias
This was taken out of context. I was talking about an axe warrior using a chain of skills. You hit things to build up adrenaline, and then when the time is right, you try to spike a target. Monks can usually outheal any damage other than spike damage.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by milias
I'm not saying Strength is the best primary attribute in the game, but it does have its uses, especially in PvP. When you're spiking, you try to exact every last bit of damage you can, and Strength certainly helps in this regard.
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aB-
The damage bonus from strength is negligible. The real reason people put points into strength is for the skills.
A Leprechaun
wow thanks for all the replies!
the general feeling im getting is strength is only good if your packing strength skills which is mainly in PvP
am i right?
~A Leprechaun~
the general feeling im getting is strength is only good if your packing strength skills which is mainly in PvP
am i right?
~A Leprechaun~
Livingston
Quote:
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Originally Posted by milias
Strenght is usually "required" for warriors in PvP, since warriors are usually damage dealers in PvP. In PvE, it depends. There're stance tanks that invest heavily in Tactics for stances, and there're Strength warriors who invest a lot of points in Strength. Personally, I put points in Strength and Tactics.
I usually do: Strength: 11+1+3 Tactics: 11+1 Sword: 8+1 Protection: 2 Smite: 3 |
Livingston
A Leprechaun
that was his PvE tank build not his PvP dmg build... read the post!
Carl Butanananowski
I think its worth it with a sundering something :P lotta armor penetration going on..
unless they dont stack?
unless they dont stack?
Don Zardeone
Str? PvE?
For dolyak and sentinels.
Oh and you don't need to go for the full 20 second dolyak with 15str. It's ok to have a few seconds without the 40~armour and you won't be snailing forward in-between fights X.x
If you look at those str skills, things like sprint don't really require much str, same with tiger stance.
For dolyak and sentinels.
Oh and you don't need to go for the full 20 second dolyak with 15str. It's ok to have a few seconds without the 40~armour and you won't be snailing forward in-between fights X.x
If you look at those str skills, things like sprint don't really require much str, same with tiger stance.
This is Brad
The only strength skills worth bringing into a PvP environment are Bulls Strike, Bulls Charge, Sprint, Rush and you could argue for Protector's Strike (Which I think is a stupid skill).
Also if you are using an IAS other than frenzy, something is wrong with you.
Also if you are using an IAS other than frenzy, something is wrong with you.
milias
Quote:
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Originally Posted by This is Brad
Also if you are using an IAS other than frenzy, something is wrong with you.
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Retribution X
Quote:
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Originally Posted by milias
Hmm, I don't understand this. Frenzy doubles the damage you take, which used to be okay in PvP, since warriors aren't usually targeted till last due to their armor and absorption. But since the absorption nerf, warriors need to watch out a lot more for elemental damage. I'm not so sure using Frenzy is such a good idea anymore.
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Now I use Doylak signet 24-7-52
Zui
milias, no disrespect intended, but your statements are laughable.
Which is why in the current metagame, almost everyone is playing to beat the energy out of monks.
Learn to use Frenzy.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by milias
Monks can usually outheal any damage other than spike damage.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by milias
Hmm, I don't understand this. Frenzy doubles the damage you take, which used to be okay in PvP, since warriors aren't usually targeted till last due to their armor and absorption. But since the absorption nerf, warriors need to watch out a lot more for elemental damage. I'm not so sure using Frenzy is such a good idea anymore.
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Lord Aro
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Livingston
You need a 12 just to do full listed damage of a sword.
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Dante the Warlord
personally, i think strength is good if you want to get the sentinals armor... personally my build for my warrior ranger is 13 strength, 15 swordsmanship, 5 beastmastery, and 5 tactics. I use the Luxon armor version of the sentinal's armor and it really kicks but, but i will only use this for regular PvE and farming. for PvP...I would like to start using the gladiators armor combined with less points in strength and swordsmanship to help my beast.
In the end nothing is really useless... its just HOW you use it... If i say that tactics are useless (which i personally think they are for me) then i am probably wrong if i say this overall ....
In the end nothing is really useless... its just HOW you use it... If i say that tactics are useless (which i personally think they are for me) then i am probably wrong if i say this overall ....
Horseman Of War
i might be the only fan of this skill in the entire game community:
dwarven battle stance [e](str) for (10..) seconds, all your Hammer attacks interrupt your target.
If that doesnt put Icy/SS to shame I dont know what does.
My stats are usually even with hammer&str as high as possible (tho I rarely put my hammer up to 16... I happen to like having a high str)
dwarven battle stance [e](str) for (10..) seconds, all your Hammer attacks interrupt your target.
If that doesnt put Icy/SS to shame I dont know what does.
My stats are usually even with hammer&str as high as possible (tho I rarely put my hammer up to 16... I happen to like having a high str)
fallot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lord Aro
My understanding was, you only need the requirement on the weapon to do the max damage, any points over that requirement affect the skills associated and your chance to critical hit.
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Malice Black
once you have finished reading all the bickering...
use whatever works best for you..take your time and find out what you like and stick to it...leave these to bicker among themselves
imo tactics is better in most cases, i just threw any spare points if any into str
use whatever works best for you..take your time and find out what you like and stick to it...leave these to bicker among themselves
imo tactics is better in most cases, i just threw any spare points if any into str
Shadowfox1125
I don't "tank" in PvE unless I'm doing an Elite mission, but I usually go
16 - Weapon Attribute
11 - Tactics - Healing Signet, Watch Yourself!
09 - Strength - I bring Endure Pain all the time with me in PvE
16 - Weapon Attribute
11 - Tactics - Healing Signet, Watch Yourself!
09 - Strength - I bring Endure Pain all the time with me in PvE
Caelus The Fallen
Quote:
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Originally Posted by shadow39365
well i could talk about skills but that isnt why you asked, to be honest, 10 is enough and always will be enough for a standard build, anything over that is not really required. It does make a difference. Lets take a look at Frost Wurms, they don't have anymore HP than your average enemy but they just have stupidly high armour, using Strength against those types of creatures is useful? yes it is. Strength applies a damage bonus depending on enemy armour and if i am thinking correctly (pardon me, tired today) then the higher an enemy's armour the higher the damage bonus applied.
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60AL - 20dmg
54AL - 22.2 dmg
--------------
bonus - 2.2 dmg
100 AL -10 dmg
90 AL - 11.9 dmg
--------------
bonus - 1.9 dmg
In short, both your weapon damage scales down with AL, your bonus damage is a function of both your weapon damage and AL; and the net effect is your bonus damage also scales down, just more slowly.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lord Aro
My understanding was, you only need the requirement on the weapon to do the max damage, any points over that requirement affect the skills associated and your chance to critical hit.
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dmg = weapon_dmg * 2 ^ (strikelevel - enemy_AL)
strikelevel = 5 * weapon_attribute (up to and inc 12)
+3 for every level over 12
by meeting your req, you ensure that weapon_dmg is the amount stated on the weapon, but to actually get that stated damage on a standard 60AL target, you need at least a 12. With a 16, you will get slightly above stated damage, but its diminishing returns. Att level also affects critical hit ratios, which is why any warrior planning on dealing damage will run a 16 in their weapon.
If you only run a 9 in weapon mastery, its like giving your foe an extra 15 armour :S
Stormlord Alex
For PvE... Strength is worth it simply for Dolyak Signet. Throw in Defy Pain, Endure Pain, Shadow Shields, Eternal Shields, and Magmas Shields (after all, PvE is about looking good, right?), and then you'll realize Weapon/Tactics/Strength is better than Weapon/Tactics/Healing Prayers. 
Throw in Defy Pain, Endure Pain, Shadow Shields, Eternal Shields, and Magmas Shields (after all, PvE is about looking good, right?), and then you'll realize Weapon/Tactics/Strength is better than Weapon/Tactics/Healing Prayers.
A Leprechaun
i use tactics a lot and did invest i 2 good eternal sheidls ^^ but i have found myself not using them much as i have not found any strength skills worth taking in PvE and now i have gone into hammers, after using swords and axes so long, i have found i use it even less with my att's looking more like this
hammer ~ 16
tactics ~ 8
earth magic ~ 10
strength ~ 3
(i think)
and from the main reaction ive got it seems that points in strength are just not justified by the extra armour penetration
well thats my conclusion , shout at me if im wrong
~A Leprechaun~
hammer ~ 16
tactics ~ 8
earth magic ~ 10
strength ~ 3
(i think)
and from the main reaction ive got it seems that points in strength are just not justified by the extra armour penetration
well thats my conclusion , shout at me if im wrong
~A Leprechaun~
fallot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by A Leprechaun
and from the main reaction ive got it seems that points in strength are just not justified by the extra armour penetration
well thats my conclusion , shout at me if im wrong |
Enchanted Warrior
Warriors Endure Pain has saved me more than once. 17 seconds, it adds 272 health to me, by having a high strength (I run 13 strength and 16 Swords with a base of 506 health {armed +30 swords, +30 sheild}) .
Hephaestus Ram
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
For PvE... Strength is worth it simply for Dolyak Signet.
Throw in Defy Pain, Endure Pain, Shadow Shields, Eternal Shields, and Magmas Shields (after all, PvE is about looking good, right?), and then you'll realize Weapon/Tactics/Strength is better than Weapon/Tactics/Healing Prayers. |
of build and think it's a waste in most situations. Assuming you also carry a rez, half
of your skill bar is used up. That only leaves you with four slots to do damage with.
My experiance has been that if you could actually kill something instead of just
standing there, you wouldnt need all those extra hit points.
I know that if you could get a perfect aggro, "stumping" it would work, but my
experiance is that you very rarely do. I feel like I'm more effective if I setup to do
maximum damage and leave it to the monks and ritualists to do damage control
for me.
What situations do you get in where your setup is effective?
Enchanted Warrior
It's called tanking, a meat sheild.. Most PUG healers are not to swift at healing.