STRENGTH: is it worth the points?

that was his PvE tank build not his PvP dmg build... read the post!

I think its worth it with a sundering something :P lotta armor penetration going on..

unless they dont stack?

Str? PvE?
For dolyak and sentinels.

Oh and you don't need to go for the full 20 second dolyak with 15str. It's ok to have a few seconds without the 40~armour and you won't be snailing forward in-between fights X.x

If you look at those str skills, things like sprint don't really require much str, same with tiger stance.

The only strength skills worth bringing into a PvP environment are Bulls Strike, Bulls Charge, Sprint, Rush and you could argue for Protector's Strike (Which I think is a stupid skill).

Also if you are using an IAS other than frenzy, something is wrong with you.

Hmm, I don't understand this. Frenzy doubles the damage you take, which used to be okay in PvP, since warriors aren't usually targeted till last due to their armor and absorption. But since the absorption nerf, warriors need to watch out a lot more for elemental damage. I'm not so sure using Frenzy is such a good idea anymore.

I absolutly never use frenzy now. it sux.

Now I use Doylak signet 24-7-52

milias, no disrespect intended, but your statements are laughable.

Which is why in the current metagame, almost everyone is playing to beat the energy out of monks.

Learn to use Frenzy.

My understanding was, you only need the requirement on the weapon to do the max damage, any points over that requirement affect the skills associated and your chance to critical hit.

personally, i think strength is good if you want to get the sentinals armor... personally my build for my warrior ranger is 13 strength, 15 swordsmanship, 5 beastmastery, and 5 tactics. I use the Luxon armor version of the sentinal's armor and it really kicks but, but i will only use this for regular PvE and farming. for PvP...I would like to start using the gladiators armor combined with less points in strength and swordsmanship to help my beast.

In the end nothing is really useless... its just HOW you use it... If i say that tactics are useless (which i personally think they are for me) then i am probably wrong if i say this overall ....

i might be the only fan of this skill in the entire game community:

dwarven battle stance [e](str) for (10..) seconds, all your Hammer attacks interrupt your target.

If that doesnt put Icy/SS to shame I dont know what does.

My stats are usually even with hammer&str as high as possible (tho I rarely put my hammer up to 16... I happen to like having a high str)

No, meeting the req. will allow you to not do pitiful damage. If you do not meet the requirement, your damage will be equal to a starting weapon. If you meet the req. you will deal the normal damage that you would at that weapon attribute level. Therefore, if you have eight points in swordsmanship and have a req. 7 sword, you will deal <100% weapon damage.

once you have finished reading all the bickering...

use whatever works best for you..take your time and find out what you like and stick to it...leave these to bicker among themselves

imo tactics is better in most cases, i just threw any spare points if any into str

I don't "tank" in PvE unless I'm doing an Elite mission, but I usually go

16 - Weapon Attribute
11 - Tactics - Healing Signet, Watch Yourself!
09 - Strength - I bring Endure Pain all the time with me in PvE

Not really, higher the armour, the more you penetrate, but the actual bonus damage gets smaller as Al increases. The effect of ignoring 6AL on a 60AL target is to marginally multiply up your weapon damage, whereas the effect of ignoring 10AL on a 100AL target is to multiply your damage by more than before BUT the damage being multiplied up is only half of the previous value because the increase of 40 AL halves your damage. To illustrate, lets say we are hitting fro 20 damage.

60AL - 20dmg
54AL - 22.2 dmg
--------------
bonus - 2.2 dmg

100 AL -10 dmg
90 AL - 11.9 dmg
--------------
bonus - 1.9 dmg

In short, both your weapon damage scales down with AL, your bonus damage is a function of both your weapon damage and AL; and the net effect is your bonus damage also scales down, just more slowly.

It comes from teh part in the damage calculation whereby:

dmg = weapon_dmg * 2 ^ (strikelevel - enemy_AL)

strikelevel = 5 * weapon_attribute (up to and inc 12)
+3 for every level over 12

by meeting your req, you ensure that weapon_dmg is the amount stated on the weapon, but to actually get that stated damage on a standard 60AL target, you need at least a 12. With a 16, you will get slightly above stated damage, but its diminishing returns. Att level also affects critical hit ratios, which is why any warrior planning on dealing damage will run a 16 in their weapon.
If you only run a 9 in weapon mastery, its like giving your foe an extra 15 armour :S

For PvE... Strength is worth it simply for Dolyak Signet. Throw in Defy Pain, Endure Pain, Shadow Shields, Eternal Shields, and Magmas Shields (after all, PvE is about looking good, right?), and then you'll realize Weapon/Tactics/Strength is better than Weapon/Tactics/Healing Prayers.

i use tactics a lot and did invest i 2 good eternal sheidls ^^ but i have found myself not using them much as i have not found any strength skills worth taking in PvE and now i have gone into hammers, after using swords and axes so long, i have found i use it even less with my att's looking more like this
hammer ~ 16
tactics ~ 8
earth magic ~ 10
strength ~ 3
(i think)

and from the main reaction ive got it seems that points in strength are just not justified by the extra armour penetration
well thats my conclusion , shout at me if im wrong

~A Leprechaun~

Your conclusion is correct, hopefully people can learn from this little discussion

Warriors Endure Pain has saved me more than once. 17 seconds, it adds 272 health to me, by having a high strength (I run 13 strength and 16 Swords with a base of 506 health {armed +30 swords, +30 sheild}) .

I don't know about this kind of setup. I've experimented with this " Tree stump " type
of build and think it's a waste in most situations. Assuming you also carry a rez, half
of your skill bar is used up. That only leaves you with four slots to do damage with.
My experiance has been that if you could actually kill something instead of just
standing there, you wouldnt need all those extra hit points.

I know that if you could get a perfect aggro, "stumping" it would work, but my
experiance is that you very rarely do. I feel like I'm more effective if I setup to do
maximum damage and leave it to the monks and ritualists to do damage control
for me.

What situations do you get in where your setup is effective?

It's called tanking, a meat sheild.. Most PUG healers are not to swift at healing.