Fort. vs. Jade

hmmm im not really sure if there are any other posts out there like this but i'll give it a try.

From what i have seen Fort Aspenwood (sp?) is the most populated of the 2 (jade and fort) and the Kur have almost never lost a battle. But now the luxon are winning.

Personally i fine that the Jade Quarry (sp?) is more of a fair fight for both sides (it is much like allaince battles) you fight each other almost head on and try to capture points and what not. But in fort aspenwood the luxon side has the siege turtle and warrior guards which gives them the edge in battle. Now im not saying the the Kur side can't win because they used to have a win rate of about 80% if not 90% or somewhere close to that..

Well im just wondering what you as Guild Wars players think about this..

-Why is the Jade Quarry not as populated with ppl but almost everyone in fort aspenwood complain about that the luxon have the upper hand?

-And why dont the luxon/kur like to fight in the Jade Quarry? - ok edit to this someone was rushing me to finish
ty for reading

How many Fort Aspenwood matches have you played, 2?

Luxons win 99% of the time (before the instant-res bug)

Sorry, but this just flat out says that you are in a Kurzick alliance. You seem to have a bit of a warped view of what's going on.

I have ALL outposts on my map, so I can go where-ever I want. I have gone to Jade Quarry and looked at both sides. Usually there is maybe 1-3 people on each side, nowhere near enough for a fight. There isn't a bigger group at the Kurzick side. (European servers)


Now about the Kurzicks loosing more, that's just simple mechanics. It seems that there are more people usually on the Luxon side, and so there is usually more people who know what to do.
As well, I see many people (foolishly) using PvE builds. They don't realise that they have to alter their builds in order to be able to stand up to the enemies.

The fact of the matter is, the Luxon's work best with attack builds (which is what most PvE builds are). Whereas the Kurzicks work best with defensive builds (which most PvE builds are not). So therefore, the Luxons usually have builds that are able to handle what must be done.

EoE/WoP > boon protect,

luxon turtle guard = insane amount of KD and damage

Juggie > Turtle but owned by the turrtle guard.

Most of the time, its 12 v 5 because the Luxon NPC are mobile but the Kurzick NPC are fixed position so that they die easily

yes i am a kur allaince person atm since i havent gotten aroud tom playing the luxon side (im trying to fisnh the game with all my char on the kur side first or it might cause problems (lux faction farming and kur ffing..)

and thats true about ppl using pve builds but some pve builds and finsh off a pvp builder no problem...

and how have you come to the conclusion that the lux are mor offensive then kur or is that just going along with the story line of factions?


ive playe3d more then 2 and btw my info only calculates the time ive played..i might not have made that clear....also ive played on lux side and hide along with the turle and his guards and was able to lead a direct charge into the base of the kurzick and win in under 10 min..which kinda shows how over powering the luxon side is..or it couokld be the other team has ill prepared..lots of factors...

For Fort Aspenwood, I only play on the kurz side but I think its pretty even. One thing I picked up on was that, I would either go on really long winning or losing streaks.

The last 5 battles I've played on Aspenwood on Kurzick side, we've won. You just have to get lucky and hope you don't get a team full of idiots and leechers.

or that you have 2 or more bonders

i still have yet to play an 8 monk team on fort aspenwood on the kurzick side

Most people who want to go into Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry do to get faction points, and getting faction points is a grinding experience. A battle in Fort Aspenwood always goes as predicted due to what I call "herding barriers" - the gates and hallways that dictate the Luxon avenues of attack and the Kurzick choke points of defense. As a result, a particular build can be designed to take advantage of this setup, whether a Luxon ranger with Edge of Extinction or a Kurzick monk with Life Barrier.

The difference with Jade Quarry is that, as you've noticed, it is much more open-ended and plays like an alliance battle. That, however, means that the people who wish to win more frequently will choose Fort Aspenwood over it, because in Fort Aspenwood they can set up to do something that will all but guarantee a victory unless the other team happens to have a counter.

The Kurzick side actually has an advantage over the Luxons in Jade Quarry, because the quarries are positioned closer to the Kurzick starting positions. Unfortunately, the Jade Quarry is also much further from House Zu Heltzer than Fort Aspenwood is from Cavalon, and the Jade Sea is much easier to run than the Echovald Forest, so very few Kurzicks actually make it to Jade Quarry, and even fewer stay after completing the primary quest. Coupled with the fact that Jade Quarry is a coin toss where Fort Aspenwood can be skewed, Jade Quarry is chronically underpopulated on the Kurzick side, and the lack of battles turns even more people away.

I recently posted The Winner's Guide to Jade Quarry on these forums to provide an overview of what to expect in Jade Quarry and how to prepare for it. I firmly believe that more would come to Jade Quarry if they knew what they needed to do to win. After all, winning is a wonderful feeling that most of us enjoy greatly and would like to repeat as often as possible

If you want to do something about the current situation, I suggest this: get your Kurzick alliance to challenge a Luxon one to Jade Quarry "duels" one night a week. If you can do that, you'll be able to earn faction points while also building a rivalry and making the battle more personal for yourself. What better motivation is there to boost your alliance's standing with your faction than the taunts of the other side?

Winning is actually easy:You need to get youre team to work together and devise a plan,however,i always see everyone running around with no idea what there doing and just let the rest of the team run around while they go at it alone.

Well OFCOURSE youl lose!

Aspen is jsut so unbalanced. Kurizicks just like to stand there and take turtle attacks in the @ss. Not to mention when that Eoe hits it's GG. If the Luxons have a Eoe ranger it's pretty much guarrenteed win for them.

My thought is the Jade Quarrey requires more thought than 'we attack, you defend, hey, fight over this mine as well if you like'. Fort is just a faster mission with less thought involved to play it.

I have rarely loose Fort Aspenwood (as a Kurzick), I play as a monk and find that if you heal the Kurzick Elementalists in the choke points they can hold up the Luxons for a decent amount of time, how ever once the Luxons get through the inner gates, switch to healing the juggernaught, with proper healing it can tear through most things including the turtles, if all goes to plan the enemy wont be strong enough when they get to the important NPCs in the back of the fort.

Too bad the juggies is too easy to be pulled and ofter went out to venture alone with the degen enemy and if they get rid of the monk, you can say good bye to the juggie. The elementalist can be pulled as well, but they dont go as fas as a juggie would.

And elementalist got a better attack and defense than the mesmer, thats why people choose to bond them instead of the others.

@ Silver Fang: Yeah thats true, it all comes down to the roll in the end, just got to adapt

Wasnt there a guide about winning Aspenwood as the Kurzicks?

BTW, if the luxon got a EoE ranger and know what to do, bonder cant safe a gate. or a ritualist with ritual lord disenchantment and offensive spirit as well as EoE(thats my build). and 1 WoP can kill a bonded gate. The luxon warrior combine with MM create a large armor that kill the entire base, cos the kurzick vase defense are too scattered.

There are more build that can easily win the match for luxon. Assasin is good in here too after a few match with some good assasin, they can climb the wall and kill off the interupter.

Hi

I am in a Luxon allied guild, but I have played Fort Aspenwood with kurziks cause i needed it too get factions, so i could do last master for protector title. As a kurzik player, u need too control mines and collect too nps, in the back. Always have some runners too collect and deliver too npcs. When u deliver it, it repairs a gate or if u give too arcitecht it speedens completion of weapon. O I almost forgot, kill turtles. Thats how I won as kurzik. As luxon, we try have turtles alive all the way too back fort so them can barrage enemies and npcs. Trying too kill arcitecht without them is very hard and timeconsumeing. Did it once with my assassin before they fixed my teleport, i just deathcharged past gate and into arcitecht and shoved him a combo, I got slaughtered ofcourse, cause kurziks spawned there and got me. But then my luxon pals got throu gates and it was full war at the back of fort. Deleted my assassin thou, cause haveing too wait 4 hour in raisu for a team got too me.

Let's state the obvious reason why Jade isn't as populated as Aspenwood:

Pepople get to Aspenwood first, then Jade second. Because lots of people went to Aspenwood in the early days, people just... stayed there.

Now in the FPE, there were loads more people in the Luxon Jade Quarry, and most of the games that were held were owned by Kurzicks. Luxons owned Aspenwood at the time, and that somewhat continues even now.

The reason why Luxons are more offensive than Kurzicks is because Aspenwood is Attack/Defend. though you would know that if you played in that mission...

Doesn't Jade Quarry also give a smaller faction reward or something of the sort?

Ok first off, people LEARN HOW TO SPELL! I can (usually) read your posts, but it gets a little anoying having to re-order over 50% of your words so that they make sense. This is a forum, not your MSN Messenger, you have time to fix your spelling and to type entire words. You can even (*gasp*) spellcheck with Word if you can't spell.


That being said;

The difference is obviously a combination of,
1)Fort Aspenwood has "always" had players, so everyone knows they can play there.
2)Fort Aspenwood is easy to figure out. (Luxons attack, Kurzicks defend)
3)Jade Quarry is a rather fair fight. Most people don't like it when things are fair.
4)Jade Quarry (Kurzick) is rather obscure to get to, and there's no real reason to bother going (they can just go to Aspenwood).

I played Jade Quarry during the Factions PvE Preview event, and I haven't seen enough people to start a game since then. I would really love to play there, but there are hardly any people there.

I guess this is just what happens when you put 2 missions with the same purpose, one gets used more.

No, it was update a long time ago. Now both maps gives equal amounts of faction.

So here's the question for everyone else, if these morons here say Aspenwood is so balanced, then why the hell aern't people going to Jade Quarry? It's painfully obvious that the Jade Quarry map is more balanced than a monkey on a unicycle.

Look at it! The Juggernauts also have Carrier's Defense! Carrier's f*cking Defense!

I think Fort Aspenwood is easier on the Luxon side. Much easier actually.

The Luxon warriors are much more dangerous than the kurzicks npcs and the Turtles can pack an enormous amount of damage. The kurzicks npc would be decent if they couldn't be picked off so easily from a distance, they are only really a threat to warriors and assassins. The luxon warriors AI also have them do the exact same thing almost all the time, which makes them incredibly effective at spiking down a target.

The Juggernaut on the other hand is just a joke, sure he can kill a turtle easily, but thats only if he can ever get to the turtle in the first place. He walks painfully slow and it is very easy to body block him. You pretty much need a monk to babysit him all the time if you even want him to do something productive like dealing damage.

EoE is completely devastating for the kurzicks and there isn't really anything you can do about it beside interupting the ranger doing it, but locating the ranger spawning it can be very difficult in a chaotic battle.

I consider Bonders to be a joke, because any decent mesmer, necro or hell even an ele should be able to pressure a bonder into submission. I have yet to encounter a bonder that could withstand any of my caster builds for more than 20 seconds. Bonders are only good against a clueless team or an unfortunate one that got no caster capable of striking through walls.


With that said, I don't really care that it isn't perfectly fair. It makes it more interesting I guess.

I have just started playing aspenwood as a Luxon. While I played as a Kurzik, I think I won maybe 50% of the time. Difficult to tell because it usually goes in streaks. As a Luxon, I think I won about 3/4ths of the games. I know these two stats don't match up (2/4 +3/4 >1). Maybe because of my effort my side wins more often. I think that is a reasonable assumption, because I figure if I'm not in the match, there is a higher than average chance that a dropper or faction leacher will be there in my place. Especially on the Kurzik side.

My feeling on this is that the mission is more difficult for the Kurziks, but the battle is easier for Kurziks to win. Meaning, if there were no droppers and leachers on either side, and both sides have an idea about what to do and started the match with an optimal mix of classes, the Kurziks would win more often. I say this because shutting down Luxon side does not seem that hard. Two monks on either side, but have them communicate with each other so that they can double-team either side. The Luxons have to come through choke-points and that gives the Kurziks big advantages. It is difficult to stop good Kurzik amber runners, but the Luxons can slow the Kurziks down by taking mines, but then the turtles are more vulnerable and mines are easily recaptured.

I don’t know about this ubber Ritualist EoE take-down build. But if they were organized, EoE is very easy to kill off with a Rt/A (or any A/Rt) using Consume Soul and Spirit Walk. I have never seen anyone do this, but it would work as the ultimate counter to any spirit-based attack.

I think an ideal Kurzik team would have
2 prot monks to guard gates
1 A/Rt with Consume Soul and Spirit Walk to shut down enemy Rt spirit strategies and support
1 warriors with sprint, and charge for dedicated running
1 W/N with Verata’s Aura to annihilate enemy MM attacks and general support
2 Rangers with barrage and an interrupt skill, and a defense skill and dodge. These serve as runners and turtle-interuptors
1 of any other class not mentioned above to add needed diversity. Probably an Elementalist who can help retake mines.

I think this would win over most good Luxon teams. The problem is…its all random. And because the teams are random, the Kurziks don’t usually get a good mix of toons. This gives the attacking Luxons a significant advantage just because all the Luxons really have to do against an average Kurzik team is support the turtles and occasionally take back the mines.

Actually, it takes only 1 Necromancer with WoP to kill a gate with bonder. In terupter for turtle is not gonna work, i am a Rt/R, i often fill the role of interupter + emergency healer at green gate. Any decent Assasin can Climb the wall and distract the interupter. You only need to distract the interupter for a short period. Mesmer can be a good Bonder killer as well as Juggie killer and the runner killer.

Locating the EoE in the battle is hard, and when you finally locate the spirit, you are dead because of the EoE and Luxon warrior spike. I killed many EoE, but killing it does nothing, because the Ranger can plant another EoE, thats why ritual lord EoE is good, they can plant EoE every 15-20 sec. Ranger got skill to quicken the recharge time for EoE as well. The only way is to interupt them.

You are right, only 1 elementalist is able to capture the mine, but the same goes for luxon side as well.

Unlike you, I've played extensively on both sides. There is no "closer", the quarry locations are exactly equidistant for each team (which you would know if you used your map). There's 1 close quarry, one quarry that's average, and one far quarry. Both teams share the average one.

Also, the run to Quarry is not that hard, compared to running to any other area in the forest. You end up half way there anyway doing the art supplies quest, the rest of the way can be made without fighting at all.

Whenever I play (which is often), the shortage is almost always on the Luxon side. Kurzicks prefer to play Quarry because the map is fair.

i think the fort aspenwood is more fun to play and a lot easier than the jade quarry :P

First off, do not assume anything about anyone on the internet. I've played both sides of Jade Quarry extensively as well, because unlike the "mapping leavers" I actually wanted to participate while getting my map uncovered. Afterwards, I came back because I found Jade Quarry fun and kept playing the arena. Please do not put degrading comments into your posts.

Second, the quarries may be equidistant from the bases, but the teleporter locations are not. In my experience, Kurzick teleporters deposit players closer to far quarries than the Luxon ones.

We're talking about the run from House Zu Heltzer to Jade Quarry here. Art Supplies is a quest that terminates in the NW corner of Melandru's Hope. The Supplymaster quest starts just outside House Zu Heltzer and ends just outside Lutgartis Conservatory. While the supply quest may indeed be runnable (as many faction farmers can attest), it is by no means as easy to run from House Zu Heltzer to Lutgartis Conservatory as it is to run from Cavalon to Breaker Hollow. On the Luxon side, all you have to deal with is Syphon Speed from the Creeping Carps and the occasional Scorpion Wire from the Oni. On the Kurzick side, Crippling Anguish and traps are sure to put more of a dent in the runner.

Jade Quarry is much farther from House Zu Heltzer because you have to first traverse Ferndale diagonally SE and then Melandru's Hope diagonally NE. Additionally, the few people who do make it to Lutgartis Conservatory often choose to stay there, farming the scouting quest just outside instead of continuing to Jade Quarry. Getting to Jade Quarry requires a lot more effort on the Kurzick side than on the Luxon side, which is why I still see people offering runs (and give them myself with my R/W) in Cavalon, but House Zu Heltzer never has anyone spamming "Running to Jade Quarry."

Do you play in the evenings, when Jade Quarry does see a population increase on the Kurzick side? During the day, Jade Quarry is a ghost town, and the Kurzick side never has more than about 3 players even if there is a full Luxon team waiting. The Luxon team never waits long, though, and always disbands to go back to Aspenwood.

Besides, it's much easier to get more people to come to Jade Quarry on the Luxon side. All you have to do is go to Fort Aspenwood and mention that Jade Quarry has a Kurzick team waiting, and you're guaranteed to have someone move over. The Kurzick characters don't have this freedom because Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry are much harder to reach on the Kurzick side, so people give up on reaching Jade Quarry once they already have Fort Aspenwood.

People show up in the Quarry, and leave because there is never enough for a full team. If there was more of a permanent population in the Quarry, things would be better.

I was told differently a few days ago by people who'd somehow gotten in. I'm close to just spamming my alliance for 15 other people to form 2 Jade teams because I want my map uncovered.

heres a list of matches at Jade Quarry:



























maybe a.net should put some kind of quests/mission here instead? the server running this map must be frozen by now.

Kurzicks like to be cheap and bond the last elementalist gaurd...

and luxon likes to be cheap and use Eoe bombs

Actually, no, the teleporters are equally distant... depending on how you look at it:

Kurzicks are closest to Purple as Luxons are equally closest to Green.
Yellow is equally distant from both Luxons and Kurzicks.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:JadeQuarry.jpg

Grab a ruler, locate where the teleporters destinate, and the distances are equal.

^^, I can run to jade quarry with my Mesmer, but I agree with you, its loads harder to run there than it is running on the Luxon side. I'm trying to wonder why you can even run to Cavalon from Zos Shivros, but you can't do that from Altrumn Ruins to HzH... I haven't encountered Crippling Anguish, you can avoid those mantis thingies altogether if you know the run. I mean for the luxon side, you can easily run to Gyala from Zos Shivros including all stops (if you have done the required quests) and your only monster encounters are in Archipelagos.

As for the activity in Jade Quarry, its desertedness allows you to effectively set up PvE grade GvG matches in International District... that'll create problems,, but at least it'll be populated.

Somebody forgot their enchant strips.

Ugh. I still won't forget the times my team loses at 99% to a last-second EoE bomb.


Though both sides have their tricks and strategies, the true imbalance of Aspenwood is the time needed to win. A Kurzick team needs to wait out the full 20 minutes or so(which will seem like an eternity), while the Luxons can win in as quickly as five minutes. I suspect this is why Aspenwood sees much more play time than the Jade Quarry. Plus, there's that coolness factor. Which sounds more exciting: assaulting/defending a base, or... mining Jade?

That time could be reduced if more people ran amber, or if people started considering the green mine as a very good source of Amber!! 5% added to completion, how can you not want that?

(Amber, I meant amber)

The one gripe I have with Ft. Aspenwood is that people need to stop bringing PVE SOLO builds here expecting to own. Luxon wammo with triple parries, mending, HB, and no attack skill? GG ignored.

Everytime I take a visit to Jade Quarry on any side, there's always a lack of players.

If memory serves me right, Jade Quarry has a time limit of 12 minutes, though I haven't been in any matches (the few that I have been in) that have gone past 8 minutes. I may be crazy, but this would be faster overall for both sides.

In your guestimation of 20 minutes, that's 20 minutes for both sides waiting for one to win. That's a long 20 minutes if you're on the losing side, and even if you're on the winning one. That's a good deal longer than the time limit for Quarry. I've won Quarry where it was 10-0, in some fairly quick time, like 4-5 minutes. Really, if there are teams for both sides, it is far faster than Aspenwood.

Since Quarry normally plays faster, you get in more matches in less time equalling more faction. Yet people are lemmings and still flock to Aspenwood.

I like how some here say that the Kurzicks play defense while Luxons are offensive at the Fort. While this is generally true, when I play on the Kurzick side I like for our team to be more offensive than just hiding behind the gates and having 2 people trying to run amber. Most of the times I have won on the Kurzick side the team does the following:

a) have 1 or 2 people try to kill their commanders. No commander=no Luxon reinforcements. When Luxons see their precious turtle factories are out of commission they will send people to take them back. That equals fewer Luxons inside the base fighting.

b) For god's sakes protect and keep the amber mines outside the gates. Why is it 90% of the time the Kurzick team is completely ok with giving these up to the Luxons? This is insane. Why give the Luxons such a close rez shrine? You kill them inside the fort and they are back inside and in your face in about 5 seconds.

c) Take out those frickin NPC warriors 4man killing squads. I can't stand it when NO ONE targets them to get rid of them. Those 4 warriors (8 if both teams made it in) will do MORE total destruction to your team than ALL the real players will. So do yourself a favor and kill them ASAP. Take out the turtles if you can, although they are usually being protected by a monk....which brings up another point.

d) Take out ANY monk players first. They are there for one reason; to protect the turtles. One person harass the monk away while the others attack and destroy the turtle. AND if you had someone out taking down the commanders....NO MORE TURTLES.

e) If you see an EoE spirit, FFS take it out!

If the Kurzicks do these simple things (plus run amber) you will have a better chance of winning. I just can't stand when a team huddles inside waiting for their imminent demise.

That said....I wish more people played the quarry but I really don't know how to change this unless the faction reward is increased. And when Nightfall comes out and most of the player population migrates there, well what will be the point in faction anyway?