Is A.net Becoming a Sell Out?

I would defin Sell Out as a dev company who care more about Profits and getting people to buy their stuff, more than the enjoyment of players who play their game.

With the recent Increase Item Drop Event, the new purchasable character slot, lack of increase storage space despit the overwhealming demands for them... It might look like its the step that A.net is taking.

I don't have too much problem with such pratice, afterall, its a company, with goal of making Profit. Afterall, we still have the freedom of choice to decide to buy or not buy the game or the optional add ons.

But just to get some discussion on this issue, to see what people think.

(Note: Won't say it's A.net's bad, but might be NC soft making the decisions. But for the title, will just combin it all under A.net's name.)

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However, for GW, selling game doesn't seem to be the pirmary objective.... at first. There is a gradual shift, small enought that is unnoticible by many, but still there. And as wel all know, most people don't like changes.

It is one concern that GW might turn into a game like say Gunbound, free, but loaded with extra charge if you want to become "better". I got no beef with such bussiness model, but with such shift, it is possilbe that Instead of playing for the fun, you start paying for the fun. Instead of giving us the needed or the desire updates, they would dangle it in front of you, while charging the fees for it.

With the online store, the dev gain in more and more power in this. What might they sell next? More Storage slot for $10? Skill Pack to Unlock all your skills for $10? Accesses to a special and easy farming area for $20? 100k of gold for $15? 20 extra attribute points for $5? Will GW be the same as when we first click to play it? What will the future hold?

There is a line between where Devs are gamer-by-heart who want to make us player happy, with the profit as a side reward and means of funding the fun (such good pun), as to Devs who are concerning more about profit margin, monthly earning, shareholder pleasing, who would shape the game not for the more enjoyment of players, but to put more into their pocket. The fun, or the illusion of it, becomes just a marketing lure

Voice your conern if you think so. Or If not, you can always state your reason, and keep on supporting A.net and their fine product.

Too late!

ANET's giving people what they ask for and you're calling them a sell out for it?

What about the materials storage upgrade ?

Arenanet would only become a sell out if they weren't trying to sell a product in the first place. Same thing with musicians, they play music because they want to play music, they just happen to get money from it. They sell out when they sign up to a record company and are in it for the money. (which personally I think is a load of hogswash. If you're gonna play an instrument for a living, you can't do it for free. You have to put food on the table somehow)

Sellout? That terms doesnt mean anything anymore. It's overused by people who for some reason fell out of love with the object of their obsession.

And companies cant always give everything that it's customers ask for. Otherwise how would the company survive without making profits? How can you call a company that still continues it's no monthly fee policy a sellout?

Geezus.

You don't have to buy anything from the store if you don't want.

Care about profits? There is no friggin monthly fee. You expect they should give everything for free? Wake up to the real world. Everything costs. Servers are not free, administration is not free, replacement parts are not free, customer support is not free, development is not free and who knows what other expenses Anet has. I'm not familiar with game companies so hard to know every detail but I understand it costs a lot of money.

They are trying to get people to buy their game. Without people buying guild wars, they aren't making money anymore. Declining sales means NCSoft might get a bit iffy about continuing the franchise. They are doing to keep their company, and the game, afloat. And everything they have done has been what the community has asked for, that's hardly selling out.

People wanted more events. They have given us an event every weekend for the last month or so. People said they would buy character slots, they make an in game store that sells them, for the price most people agreed would be an acceptable price. People wanted more storage space, they gave it to people that bought Factions (that was a bit of a bad move, giving it to only people with Factions, but they still did it). Hell, next time someone does something you ask them, punch them in the face for selling out. I be they'll thank you.

there is nothing wrong with them trying to get every penny out of you. What is wrong with that?
If they wanna introduce a monthly fee - It's their business. I don't see anything wrong in that.



It's funny... Most GW players seem to only get mad at ArenaNet when it effects their economy. sort of like when they found out that factions would "Only" have 2 slots for merged acounts. or when they created a "pay for a slot" feature. I mean... who cares?

Stuff like that is the last thing on my mind.


It's probably a sort of proof that the majority of GW players, only play GW because it does not have a monthly fee and that they are kids, which would explain the rude community and childish discussions.




I don't think ArenaNet is a sellout. But I don't think they are using themselfs to their fulliest potential. They are not aggressive enough. GW is very passive and overlooked. The gaming industry really don't care. They will rather want to talk about the new warcraft patch than the new full priced lame GW expansion.

And that sorts of sucks. ArenaNet is a business and they don't care about anyone or anything other than making money. Frankly we are all just tools. Everything they do, they do to try and make us stay for as long as possible so we will buy more products. ArenaNet is not run by jesus and his minions. Thats the way of the world. And nothing wrong with that.

How wrong you possibly are. Maybe if you play in American server you see server full of kids but I see community pretty mature in English District. Also we play it also because no monthy free with many other reasons because it was marketed so.

People never seem to be happy, to be honest it seems like an event causes more stirs than none at all, maybe it would actually be best if there wasn't any, seeing as people always find something to moan about.

They'll provide storage space, they included material storage, surely that is a step in the right direction?!

It was also said that character slots would be coming, and of course that they wouldn't be free, it seems that's caused a bit of problems with players too, dispite hearing about it months ago and constantly asking for it, some people seem to dislike paying more for new character slots. You don't even need to buy character slots anyway, according to the press release thingy for Nightfall we'll getting 1 character slot for the pre-release version and another 2 for the actual game, there's three free (haha) character slots.

It does get a bit tiring and frustrating to see players always complaining about stuff they asked for.

I play US and English districts and from my experiences I've found people are about the same im maturity, No real difference imo.

Im happy with Anet, infact from playing WoW and knowing how poor blizzard's quality of service is in comparison im very happy. I dont understand how people get so upset about Anets plans to release a new exp pack so soon, you are'nt being forced to buy it to continue playing what you have. Likewise with extra character slots it's up to you if you want to buy or not.

I get the impression some people are worried that they are choosing quantity over quality, like with new exp packs released they wont pay attention to old areas. Well they did update the old armors and give extra storage space so this does'nt seem to be the case. I can't get my head round things like why they allow so many blatant sweatshop farmers in the game, yes they did ban alot a few months back but it's still all over. Especially european ToA. Whilst they dont always get things right you cant say they are'nt listening to people at least.

When A.net became part of NCsoft, they already became a sellout. So it doesn't matter now.

And being a sell out is not neccessarily a bad thing.

Ehm, what are you talking about? On Prophecy nothing changed. All drops are as low as they always were

Before Factions, i would say No.

After Factions and Nightfall aproaching soon, Yes.

A Games Developer team even one as large as blizzard takes a whole year to develop an "expansion" least a "standalone" game for its market makes me wary of the quality of the product Anet trys to sell us.

Like many has said before, wont be rushing in to buy Nightfall like the last time with factions, gonna adopt a wait and see for its content before even going anywhere near it....if i hear its not interesting and the same old things, or worse same or lesser than Factions, the money is still in the wallet no worries.

I'm going to have to agree with Eet Gnomesmasher, sell out is a term that's too frequently used now days and has lost meaning. A companies first objective is to always make money. Every idea, vision and project beings with the thought of making something unique, different and better then what's out there. This vision is what keeps the development or employees going. Once the idea is realized, it's being manufactured or produced the objective then becomes to try to make money for all that hard work. To see that idea/product succeed.

If you've been around since the beta of Guild Wars you saw the idea phase, the dreams of what the product could be and the excitement and hype surrounding it. Now we are in the practical phase, the phase that we need ROI's, quarterly statements are watched, investors and partners are observing the bottom line. It's a hard and fast shift but part of the evolution of any business.

Ideas and dreams are the foundation of any great idea and product, but in the end it takes $$$$ to continue, progress and keep it afloat. Sometimes it comes at a price. Situations and circumstances change for all companies, and while a company might swear that they'll never let the bottom line become the priority, sometimes there's no choice. You do what you have to to keep the product in the market and successful.

Yes, I was around since the E3FE. That was the peak of the GW in term of funness.

If you read my 3rd paragraph in the OP, you can see how I feel about company "selling out".

However, for GW, selling game doesn't seem to be the pirmary objective.... at first. There is a gradual shift, small enought that is unnoticible by many, but still there. And as wel all know, most people don't like changes.

It is one concern that GW might turn into a game like say Gunbound, free, but loaded with extra charge if you want to become "better". I got no beef with such bussiness model, but with such shift, it is possilbe that Instead of playing for the fun, you start paying for the fun. Instead of giving us the needed or the desire updates, they would dangle it in front of you, while charging the fees for it.

With the online store, the dev gain in more and more power in this. What might they sell next? More Storage slot for $10? Skill Pack to Unlock all your skills for $10? Accesses to a special and easy farming area for $20? 100k of gold for $15? 20 extra attribute points for $5? Will GW be the same as when we first click to play it? What will the future hold?

Voice your conern if you think so. Or If not, you can always state your reason, and keep on supporting A.net and their fine product.

Anet essentially has 2 development teams. 1 development team works on chapters 1,3,5, etc. While the other works on 2,4,6, etc. This enables each stand-alone/expansion to be worked on for 1 year even though they are released evey 6 months.

I strongly feel NCSoft's drop in sales with AA, and Cities of Hero/Villian has caused Anet to alter it's vision on several things. Anet appears to be doing well.. but they most likely want them to do better.

Inde I do love your post.

As long as anet keeps certain aspects of GuildWars core espcially
A) Green Items
B) NPC Collectors
C) Instant PvP Character (and the ability to permanetly unlock via PvP/Pve)
D) Armor stats cap out, better is nothing more then looks.

They could even sell real money for *special* armor w/ special skin, as long as it doesn't matter have different stats that you can get in game (1.5k crafted, green drop, or collector's armor).

They have changed how the do some things since orginal GW and what they said there vision is.. but I have yet to see there vision of the "core" guildwars change. And anet is still far more in tune with there userbase the any other game I've seen and the do listen to us.

I am not sure what is the point of all this. Are you complaining about the online store? Well, I happen to think that it's a kewl feature that's long overdue.

Think about it like this: with this new feature, now if they actually Anet has to worry considerably less about dealing with their distributors for special items. Most of us have read about various pre-order and collector edition problems on this forum, so if they actually use the online store for some of that, it could remove alot of headaches for people.

The other thing is (and I am really biased here) that for those of us with multiple accounts, the ability to purchase more character slot is really a boon. Between my wife and myself, we have 5 accounts. Moving stuff between the accounts is a pain so this feature is great.

Now storage, of course, is a whole another issue. I really don't understand why storage is so small. Hell, I don't understand why runes can't stack on each other, or why a stack can only be 250 in size (bit-width?).

In reference to the online store, only time will tell. I have my own reservations about the direction they may be taking on this. I like what they have introduced with character slots, it's a great feature and a great idea. I support it... but I'm sure many of us can see that all that's needed to head down a slippery slope is the first step But as I said, companies need to make tough choices and decisions in order to keep their products in the market and making profit. Right now it's all a wait-and-see approach. Too early to come out against a decision as we don't know the end result. And too early to fully support a decision where you can't see the entire picture.

I know this concept well since it first poped up in the forums but my real question is "IF" this method is making quality games that is worth buying.

With Factions though others may disagree i have to say NO and Nightfall awaits to be seen.

In a crude way, i am merely indirectly indicating that Anet should buck up and think of how to make their game more fun than thinking about how to fill their pockets.

Doing nothing about Factions as it is with a new "expansion" on the way soon to spend their time on leaves me worried about the quality of the content Anet feels is sufficient to market as a finished product.

The phase Quality over Quantity always hold true irregularless of how GW is marketed as a free to play online game with the need to keep selling new titles to keep afloat.

It is not to be made into an excuse as some of us here have you accept as a fact of life.

Auction House? Reconnects? These have all been asked for by the community way before character slots and an online store. It is well over a year now since they were first brought up by the community to Anet. I am sure you agree that these features would improve gameplay.

However, Anet does not see immediate income from these compared to character slots or an online store. Unfortunately, i will not be buying Chapter 3 unless they have these features in by the time of release. If i came up with as many excuses as Anet did for not having them in for so long at my place of employment then i know i would be looking for a new job. I am applying that same rational to Anet. As i stated before, it has been well over a year to get these features in and we are still waiting while character slots were put in quite fast, comparably.

Consequently, i partially agree with AJ. While they need to 'sell-out' to stay afloat, they are taking the easy road to acccomplish it. In the end, it is the customer who suffers with a game that could have been better.

Unfortunatly they now have a corporate comptroller telling them what financial goals they have to fill or else.....
A multibillion $ corporation like NC-Soft will not let a franchise like GW run without turning a profit, calculated by a numbers cruncher that never seen a video game.

If Nightfall and beyond proves you correct, I will have to start my own internet Campaign to boycott all NCsoft products and spread the word of mouth.

I am sure NCsoft with their billions dont need any more profits from their sub standard games and that Number cruncher person who never played a video game can find another accounting job somewhere else.

Class action lawsuit for lineage anyone?:
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...ft_classaction

To all those complaining about being banned unfairly:
http://www.player2player.net/index.p...e=print&sid=91

I'm going to submit a new word for your interests.

UNGRATEFUL

un·grate·ful Pronunciation Key (n-grtfl)
adj.

1. Not feeling or exhibiting gratitude, thanks, or appreciation.
2. Not agreeable or pleasant; repellent.

People never happy? Companies trying to make money? Earth spinning around the sun? OMG!!! I think we are on the real world!!! How can that be?!?! And more....I also believe we are all HUMANS!!! HOW?!?!?!?!

That might seem mundane for most of people, but for me, it seems to get more and more revolutionary everyday, I mean, watching opinions of people all around the world makes me believe that we actually live on the "happy land" were we pay for stuff with smiles and eat air for a living. SO imagine my face when I see other people making decisions based on world economy (WTF?!) and basics needs of the human physiology?! It’s like an epiphany EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!

Come on people, smart discussions are ONLY smart when they talk about subjects that actually make sense, talking about world abroad companies making money and people being unhappy is just sad and stupid, and off course, TOTALY pointless... we could argue about those topics for decades and getting to the same tad conclusion we had before the discussion started.

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Ok... I got that out of my chest, back to the constructive part of this post now.

1. Anet is NOT sold out. Commentaries about them trying to make money without putting on monthly fees aren’t going anywhere.

2. People being childish inside the game community makes sense once you analyze WHY they are not on other online games like WOW or Lineage 2...they are child, they don’t work, they don’t have credit cards and simply they CANT afford to play any other games, that makes them compelled to come to Guild Wars, and present to us a majority of kids playing the game, that’s also not new.

3. I am not even going to start about people unhappy with everything, there will be ALWAYS some one that would prefer we going on the opposite direction that we are... if we had to pay monthly they would scream they wanted a free game, the same goes now, we HAVE a free online game, and people are still screaming that the system is not OK. Learn to live with it, or simply go live some were else, nothing that we say would make them happy.

And just to clarify, if depended solo on me, this thread would simply be closed with no further notice, the points we are discussing about are just pointless and we could extend this for more 10 – 20 pages and still wouldn’t be able to get any CONSTRUCTIVE ideas out of here.

Later.

Me and A.net exisit in a supplier / customer relationship. They provide the product, I purchas them as I see fit. I don't see anything wrong to voice a concern on possible wraping of the products orginal direction that fell to meet what was promised when I first purchas the product. In this case, I am just taking more of a role of the beggar who is crying "Beware the Ides of March!"

Right now it seem fine, but as said, its a step taken. There is a line between where Devs are gamer-by-heart who want to make us player happy, with the profit as a side reward and means of funding the fun (such good pun), as to Devs who are concerning more about profit margin, monthly earning, shareholder pleasing, who would shape the game not for the more enjoyment of players, but to put more into their pocket. The fun, or the illusion of it, becomes just a marketing lure. Will this line be cross? Has it already been cross? Hard to say, but just like to paint a dark picture of it, as an warring.

Players/Customer should be more aware, and not just follow and be lead around.

good bye and good riddence.

if you honestly cant accept that there are magnitudes (yes plural meaning more than 1) of difficulty between adding a slot and making a secure reconnect feature or a secure/reliable auction house you are hopeless.

as a side note how many months did it take them for the slots when we were begging to give them more money?

if profit were the motive they would have had those slots ready for sale at the first yell for them.

Character slot take long time to be added (as you said, they are of magnitude of difficulty to be added), which suggest why they are only added now. Of couse, won't you agree that by adding them, they are also taking away resouce for adding other features like an auction house?

And also note, I speak of a "shift" in their pratice. You need to be a non-sell out first to sell out. Therefore, the priorty of Character slot store supports that.
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To Loviatar below:

Auction house was wanted long time befoe, in the earlier day of game, and louder than character slot. Same apply to storage. Yet got added faster than anything. Also that still not respond to how I say they are "Shifting". (purchasble character slot was never on the original promise of the game, nor did they say such on their mission statement)

Not saying Chracter slot is bad and that they shouldn't be added... but just using it to support the point of the possible shift.

VVVVVVVVVVV

no for the simple reason finding out how to add something to an account will also help them understand better how to do the reconnects/improved trading

this is opinion based on Alex saying that the slot delay was due to having to find the way to do it.

finding a way to do this may help find a way to do that as well or at least give some new angles to kick around.

I'll pop in, the discussion is going fine so please... no more "advice" on what you would do with this thread. I am clearly in here and monitoring the discussion.

Also, I want to point out that it's not the responsibility of the consumer to be grateful that a company provides products or services. I can just as easily call up AT&T to complain, recommend a change, ask questions as I can email NCSoft support or post on a forum with the same effect. I am assured that a voice is listening to me, that sometimes change cannot happen/that it takes a while to happen/that what I'm asking for is out of their capability/or that I have a good suggestion but my recommendation will go nowhere.

I have seen first hand how a publisher can control a game and lead to it's demise *cough* Asheron's Call 2 and Microsoft *cough*. So again, this is a business model shift I believe actionjack is referring to and it's impact on the community.

"Sellout" describes every capitalist company or business made by anyone ever. The whole point of a business is that you make profit. Anet's primary goal is, and always has been, to make money. If it wasn't, there would be a lot of hungry programmers. Deriding Anet because they exist to make money is like deriding Wal-mart for not giving away merchandise for free.

I posted similar information here.

Basically, ArenaNet's internal corporate structure is financially strong and Guild Wars is generating enough revenue to keep dinner on the table for NCSoft and is surviving off their investment return.

Corporate profits continue to diminish because of the lack of sales of current NCSoft created games, lack of subscription renewals and heavy investment in unsuccessful games such as Auto Assault and potentially Tabula Rasa (based on numerous online review articles and E3 reports). NCSoft’s latest game has not even generated a profit and is being given away for FREE with the purchase of Guild Wars Factions Collector’s Edition.

If NCSoft does not hit it strong with the release of their next two subscription based games (October '06 and Spring '07), the financial burdeon will continue to be on ArenaNet's shoulders.

I think the potential is there for abuse, but I think ANet is aware that they have competition. If people don't like the way they pay for the game they will leave and go elsewhere. So don't worry too much. It isn't going to happen.

The ONE AND ONLY purpose of a company is MAKING PROFIT (it's basic business knowledge, you can't really discuss with that) You can't say that they have "sold out" because they aren't there for your pleasure, they are there for your money and money alone.

I see what you are saying is that NCSoft is relying on Arenet to support them.I just wonder if they will take refunds at the Store if you don't need what you bought.

Too an extent. If other branches continue to fail, and ArenaNet continues to profit, more than likely one of two things will happen. Either, 1) the other developer branches will be cut, and NCSoft will shrink for a while to recope their losses. As in, focus on publishing a few sucessful games, and not invest in developing unproven titles. The other option NCSoft will likely face is to sell the publishing rights of Guild Wars to another publisher (lets NOT think EA right now. That just makes me want to cry) and use that money to reorganize the company and take on smaller projects.

There is no way that ArenaNet could hold up continued losses of other developers in the NCSoft family if NC doesn't make major changes and get some other sucessful games.

What sort of hippy froo-froo devs exist in your little fantasy world?

Those things only matter to people that only care about crap like drops. I for one would MUCH rather have the ability to buy an extra character slot than have Anet make it easier to buy stupid imaginary item from Noob A for stupid imaginary gold. Don't assume you speak for everyone or even the majority, or heck even a signifigant minority when you say "We'd rather have an auction house or more storage."

I'D rather have the ability to purchase another character slot.

Thats the big deal with all community games: You can step in for little money, or even for free (neo pets), but if you want to BE someone in the community you need to spend money on a lot of things. Players who don't take part in this can still play the game, but they are low priority since they are not spending much money.