Firstly I don't want this thread turn into a flaming thread, it is meant for people to put forward their opinions and solutions to the problem, making random arenas a better place. Now I know arenas is a place to test out builds, mess about and what not, but I think theres a few simple things that could be done to improve it/ make it more enjoyable
Leavers are a big problem. I'm talking about are the ones that leave when they are about to die. Now I mean why shouldn't we be able to have their faction even when they leave. I'd say I've lost at least about 20% of my total faction this way. (it really adds up)
Suggested Solution: I don't see why they couldn't implement leaves to count as a kill so you get your deserved faction.
Now to the problem of the other leavers, the ones that leave when they don't see a monk, their team isnt what they want it to be or the enermy team looks like it may be too much of a challenge for your random team.
Suggested Solution: To be honest I think this problem is hard to address, but maybe a delay on your next battle would work. For example if you leave when you return to random arenas, the "enter battle" button counts down from 3min or something similar until you can enter another battle. This will encourage the leavers to spend the time to play out a battle. Also if you err=7, 3min is not a lot of time to wait for the next battle and it will not happen often.
The last major issue I encounter is that of runners. Now some people go into random arenas with a purely running build and since your team is random it is often very hard to counter such people. This has happened many times when on 7-9 wins and is most annoying when you have to sit on the opposite side of the map and outlast the idiot making your life a misery.
Suggested Solution: I've read in other thread that a Victory or Death situation could work, assuming most battles that don't have a runner etc last less than 10min, VoD could negate all speed boosts and give 2 degen etc (to stop natural hp regen while running) or the team with the most members alive win. Now the problem with this is that I have had some very enjoyable battles (with balanced team facing each other) that have lasted about 10min, granted it doesnt happen very often, but maybe something like this would detract from the experience.
I'd be interested to hear everyone elses opinion on the above and any other issues you've had (no mentioning touch rangers, theres enough of those threads)
Addressing Problems in Random Arenas
LuckyGiant
BunnyMaster
1. Good idea
2. Good idea
3. If you can't kill a runner, you don't deserve the victory. End of story.
2. Good idea
3. If you can't kill a runner, you don't deserve the victory. End of story.
Demesis
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Originally Posted by BunnyMaster
1. Good idea
2. Good idea 3. If you can't kill a runner, you don't deserve the victory. End of story. |
That's stupid, and it's immature. They know they lost and they deliberately waste other people's time. Even when their entire team left, they're still running. In fact I told a runner that if he just get it over with, our entire group and himself could have finished at least 5 other HA matches. Do you know what he told me?
"STFU noob, I'm going to make sure you waste as much time as possible"
Elena
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Originally Posted by BunnyMaster
1. Good idea
2. Good idea 3. If you can't kill a runner, you don't deserve the victory. End of story. |
Riken Chrono
crip shot or anything like that. poison arrow. dead. runners are easy to kill with a ranger
Silent Kitty
Some people are just to lazy to learn how to snare. It is much easier to whine and hope Anet bans all kiters.
The Son Of Morgoth
I would hardly call a max armor warrior with charge sprint purge conditions balanced stance or a ranger with EVADE,WHIRLING DEFENSE,STORM CHASER,ZOJUNS HASTE,MENDING BLAH BLAH a kiter.........
We all know kiting is to mitigate dmg but when u have 4 peopl on other team and the other person just running aroudn u cant really counter them..... melee cant do jack agasint block evade and its very hard to kill them. anyone who says that this shouldnt be fixed hasnt ra'd much, has a build to specifically kill runners or is being an ass and a runner in secret themselves.
ADD VICTORY OR DEATH SCENARIO TO RA!
We all know kiting is to mitigate dmg but when u have 4 peopl on other team and the other person just running aroudn u cant really counter them..... melee cant do jack agasint block evade and its very hard to kill them. anyone who says that this shouldnt be fixed hasnt ra'd much, has a build to specifically kill runners or is being an ass and a runner in secret themselves.
ADD VICTORY OR DEATH SCENARIO TO RA!
Shyft the Pyro
The running and "can't kill each other but have no res" scenarios should end in draws in RA after, say, 15 minutes have elapsed. A draw kicks both parties out into the outpost, so the runner wouldn't be able to outlast a "winning" party because of leavers. This would eliminate runners because running would only make you lose in 15 minutes.
Rathcail
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Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro
The running and "can't kill each other but have no res" scenarios should end in draws in RA after, say, 15 minutes have elapsed. A draw kicks both parties out into the outpost, so the runner wouldn't be able to outlast a "winning" party because of leavers. This would eliminate runners because running would only make you lose in 15 minutes.
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Silent Kitty
Best strategy would be to pretend to be afk. At a certain moment the runner thinks he can kill you, and than you kill him/her/it 
It is kind of a psychological game. A game of wits. You know you can't outrun him/her/it, so you must be smart. The running strategy was already done in the stoneage. I am sure we finally learned a way on how to deal with it
It is kind of a psychological game. A game of wits. You know you can't outrun him/her/it, so you must be smart. The running strategy was already done in the stoneage. I am sure we finally learned a way on how to deal with it
Superdarth
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Originally Posted by Rathcail
Frankly I think runners would increase in that situation. They'd know they can make you lose in 15 mins.
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Morganas
The runner situation is the same situation as not being able to beat a 2 monk team because the damage dealers on your team are terrible. Sure it's frustrating, especially when you're the monk in either situation and can't do anything about it, but in both cases, it just makes sense for the enemy to do what he can to avoid losing. The runner can't hurt you, and you can't hurt the runner, neither side deserves the win more than the other.
The people who leave with no monk are pretty annoying, but I look at it as saving me the trouble of wasting time with a mediocre player. In RA, it's plenty easy to get glad points monkless (a monk in RA is usually a wasted character, they're all terrible for some reason, more so than any other class), and alot of the time when I've gotten a leaver in the beginning, we've gone on to win 3v4 and get a good player the next round.
The people who leave with no monk are pretty annoying, but I look at it as saving me the trouble of wasting time with a mediocre player. In RA, it's plenty easy to get glad points monkless (a monk in RA is usually a wasted character, they're all terrible for some reason, more so than any other class), and alot of the time when I've gotten a leaver in the beginning, we've gone on to win 3v4 and get a good player the next round.
Shyft the Pyro
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Originally Posted by Rathcail
Frankly I think runners would increase in that situation. They'd know they can make you lose in 15 mins.
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Not all runners are griefers. In most cases, their main goal isn't to be an asshole but to keep their win streak alive. If people knew that running would result in a loss (in terms of the win streak, since draws dump you in the outpost) the only runners we'd have to deal with would be the griefers - usually bored players who've explored all content and just want to torment newbies. Hopefully, we could deal with those the conventional way - by reporting them to ANet for disruptive behavior.
Zinger314
I think a time limit of 10 minutes should be instituted in RAs. 99% of matches finish under 10 minutes (heck, 75% of matches finish under 5 minutes!)
Rathcail
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Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro
Hopefully, we could deal with those the conventional way - by reporting them to ANet for disruptive behavior.
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Silent Kitty
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
I think a time limit of 10 minutes should be instituted in RAs. 99% of matches finish under 10 minutes (heck, 75% of matches finish under 5 minutes!)
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The truth itself
I fail to see problem #2, seriusly, nobody wants to be on a team without any chances of winning, so solution isn't to punish, but to remove the cause of the effect. Add so that each team must have a person with a at least 4 skills from a set skill list of healing skills.
LuckyGiant
Thanks for all the suggestions 
Random arenas is random, your team doesnt always have snares and even if you have one or two if someone is build to run, they keep running.
Funniest battle I've had is against another balanced team. We got their monk (who was amazing) to 60% dp, but they had a 'tank' with restore life and our only interupt was shock and he used doylak sig. So he'd walk around the arenas 90% slower like a human ressurector when someone died. We eventually got him though
Then its no longer random arenas, half the fun is your team is random besides its hardly fair that one team gets the mending wammo with healing skills and another gets a monk
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Originally Posted by BunnyMaster
3. If you can't kill a runner, you don't deserve the victory. End of story.
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Funniest battle I've had is against another balanced team. We got their monk (who was amazing) to 60% dp, but they had a 'tank' with restore life and our only interupt was shock and he used doylak sig. So he'd walk around the arenas 90% slower like a human ressurector when someone died. We eventually got him though
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Originally Posted by The truth itself
I fail to see problem #2, seriusly, nobody wants to be on a team without any chances of winning, so solution isn't to punish, but to remove the cause of the effect. Add so that each team must have a person with a at least 4 skills from a set skill list of healing skills.
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Shadow of Light
I like the idea of giving faction/exp to the team if an opponent leaves before death.
I don't know about the second point, for the reason that there are many instances where a person prematurely leaves a battle. Do you mean the 3 min timeout for if someone leaves when they are still alive? Or if anyone in their team is still alive? I'm still in favour of a faction penalty for these cases.
As for runners... I don't know. Runners aren't the only people responsible for just prolonging a game by NOT DYING. There probably isn't an effective way to deal with this problem, unless Anet started introducing referees to every single match.
I don't know about the second point, for the reason that there are many instances where a person prematurely leaves a battle. Do you mean the 3 min timeout for if someone leaves when they are still alive? Or if anyone in their team is still alive? I'm still in favour of a faction penalty for these cases.
As for runners... I don't know. Runners aren't the only people responsible for just prolonging a game by NOT DYING. There probably isn't an effective way to deal with this problem, unless Anet started introducing referees to every single match.
Abdul
Some sort of VoD condition needs to be put in, not only for runners, but to stop stalemate games where neither team can kill the other.
The new luxon and kurzick maps are both pretty bad. The top path on the kurzick map is too narrow and built into a concave wall which wrecks havoc on the camera. One team will also has the slight disadvantage of having those hard to see spore clouds on their side of the map. The luxon map is fine for TA, but do we really need a priest map in RA?
There needs to be better match making, based not only on builds, but player skill level as well. A ladder system similar to the one in Warcraft 3 would be nice. In War3, players are go up ranks when they win games, and lose rank (at a slower rate) when they lose a game, and the system will attempt to match players of similar rank. Something like this might encourage more competition, and leave the griefers at lower ranks.
The new luxon and kurzick maps are both pretty bad. The top path on the kurzick map is too narrow and built into a concave wall which wrecks havoc on the camera. One team will also has the slight disadvantage of having those hard to see spore clouds on their side of the map. The luxon map is fine for TA, but do we really need a priest map in RA?
There needs to be better match making, based not only on builds, but player skill level as well. A ladder system similar to the one in Warcraft 3 would be nice. In War3, players are go up ranks when they win games, and lose rank (at a slower rate) when they lose a game, and the system will attempt to match players of similar rank. Something like this might encourage more competition, and leave the griefers at lower ranks.
The truth itself
LuckyGiant:
Life isn't always fair nor perfect, but that doesnt mean we shouldn't stribe after it. Also remember it is still random arenas, perfect equal teams seems impossible.
Life isn't always fair nor perfect, but that doesnt mean we shouldn't stribe after it. Also remember it is still random arenas, perfect equal teams seems impossible.
The truth itself
Grr, .. 2x post
LuckyGiant
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Originally Posted by The truth itself
I fail to see problem #2, seriusly, nobody wants to be on a team without any chances of winning, so solution isn't to punish, but to remove the cause of the effect. Add so that each team must have a person with a at least 4 skills from a set skill list of healing skills.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The truth itself
LuckyGiant:
Life isn't always fair nor perfect, but that doesnt mean we shouldn't stribe after it. Also remember it is still random arenas, perfect equal teams seems impossible. |
As I said in my first post, I realize random arenas are random and thats half the fun The leavers, people leaving before you can get their faction and runners detract from the experience for me. VoD would be nice would also be nice for another reason: was on 7 wins last night with a 2 monk group, then we came across another 2 monk group...had to leave after about 10min it was going no where
Shyft the Pyro
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
Not if you get two good teams against each other. Maybe not in your book but theoretically it's possible there. You can't punish them by cutting off their winning streak.
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Curse You
I think VoD after maybe 20 minutes (not many battle go that long) would work nicely. If it was just like the GvG one, it may work. Bascially 50% more damage being dealt would probably mean the a runner would get overwhelmed by damage (if you hit them). As well monk stalemates would be resoved due to the much higher damage.
It may help reduce leavers if they changed it so that when someone leaves (assuing they haven't died already), the other team gets the reward as though they killed them. This would also mean that if someone left at the begining of a battle, the other team would instantly get faction and exp. So this way leavers will have to deal with the fact that they are now giving the enemy a free bit of faction.
It may help reduce leavers if they changed it so that when someone leaves (assuing they haven't died already), the other team gets the reward as though they killed them. This would also mean that if someone left at the begining of a battle, the other team would instantly get faction and exp. So this way leavers will have to deal with the fact that they are now giving the enemy a free bit of faction.
Morganas
Better yet, we could have draws after a certain time, but not treat them as losses for either side. Instead, just leave each team intact, don't award faction, and move on the next match as if they won, but without counting it in the consecutive count that awards gladiator points or moves you to TA.
darkMishkin
How about:
When a team gets down to one remaining player, a 1...3 minute victory countdown begins. If the runner doesn't res anyone within that time he loses.
Still some downsides, but a much better way of doing it.
When a team gets down to one remaining player, a 1...3 minute victory countdown begins. If the runner doesn't res anyone within that time he loses.
Still some downsides, but a much better way of doing it.
Alleji
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Originally Posted by darkMishkin
How about:
When a team gets down to one remaining player, a 1...3 minute victory countdown begins. If the runner doesn't res anyone within that time he loses. Still some downsides, but a much better way of doing it. |
To stop leavers, give out faction at the end of the fight, once again, just like AvA. If you leave before the end, you get 0.
dawnrain
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Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro
The point of running isn't to make the other team lose, it's to make the other team give up. The reason runners come into Random Arenas is because they believe they can outlast the enemy and make the enemy team give up, thereby letting the runner to continue on a win streak.
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If the primary motivation is griefing, then ultimately it doesn't matter what changes you make. No system has yet been designed that keeps a jerk from being a jerk. Griefers will always find a way, until they're banned.
whitedragon
I'am not a big pvper but i like to RA when I got nothing to do. As for the OP's
ideas i think they would work and are pretty good.
The last time I RAed it lasted 57 mins I had used my stance tank build (being board) we had 1 monk and 2 worr left they had a monk left(no rez) our other w/ got stuck and could'nt move so it was the monk and I trying to kill him/her
but i had no real dam to do so we spent around 30min trying to kill him/her nogo tho so we finally gave up and let him/her kill us 1 by 1 most degrading thing I ever did on GW
ideas i think they would work and are pretty good.
The last time I RAed it lasted 57 mins I had used my stance tank build (being board) we had 1 monk and 2 worr left they had a monk left(no rez) our other w/ got stuck and could'nt move so it was the monk and I trying to kill him/her
but i had no real dam to do so we spent around 30min trying to kill him/her nogo tho so we finally gave up and let him/her kill us 1 by 1 most degrading thing I ever did on GW
lagrand1
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Originally Posted by LuckyGiant
was on 7 wins last night with a 2 monk group, then we came across another 2 monk group...had to leave after about 10min it was going no where
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shardfenix
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Originally Posted by Demesis
So the runner deserves the victory? What kind of victory is that??? So the runner won because he managed to bore the other group into submission...?
That's stupid, and it's immature. They know they lost and they deliberately waste other people's time. Even when their entire team left, they're still running. In fact I told a runner that if he just get it over with, our entire group and himself could have finished at least 5 other HA matches. Do you know what he told me? |
However, on many occasions, I was the last person left on the team and I was able to run and eventually kill the whole other team, 1 person at a time (thats why assassins don't suck). So, running is a legit strategy, but is easily beatable if you have a brain.
LuckyGiant
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Originally Posted by lagrand1
I would be so mad if you were in my team. After 7 wins you screwed your team out of a glad point.
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Originally Posted by darkMishkin
When a team gets down to one remaining player, a 1...3 minute victory countdown begins. If the runner doesn't res anyone within that time he loses.
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Originally Posted by Curse you
I think VoD after maybe 20 minutes (not many battle go that long) would work nicely. If it was just like the GvG one, it may work. Bascially 50% more damage being dealt would probably mean the a runner would get overwhelmed by damage (if you hit them). As well monk stalemates would be resoved due to the much higher damage.
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Someone mentioned having faction dealt out at the end rather than as you go (kinda like kurzick /luxon challenge missions i guess) Good idea but this may encourage more leavers at the start of matches if they know they have to stick around for little reward.