Well I just got Factions, and I decided to make an assassin just to see what all the fuss is about, and I have to say they are lots of fun. Much more fun than my Warrio, Necro or Ranger I have... However, I have read people saying things like "Assassins are plain hated" and "Don't expect to find a group if you're an Assassin..." So my question is why?
I'd like to make an assassin, but not really up for henching my way through the game, so what's so bad about them?
What's wrong with Assassins?
Hand of Ruin
Opeth11
Assassins rack up the DP when the player doesn't know how to play.
X89
ok, most people hate the people that play the asassins more then the class itself. to many people that play the role of assassin think it is just like using a warrior. when in the end its not.
assassins offer a wide arrange of skills, combo's, and plain offensive skills. the assassin was made to get in, unleash combo, and get out before taking huge amounts of damage. most people play them however like a tank with 80 armor and stances for protection, staying in danger for far to long.
so thats why people hate the class more then any other. people have basically imo, flamed a class when they should be flaming the player for not knowing the class.
in the end i'm not saying to stay away from the class, i think its a great class. i have an assassin and i know how to use the assassin. as far as doing everything with henchmen, i never experienced to much hate from people in groups, guildies do help too. but i guess in the end it comes to what you want to do, you may spend more time looking for that group, but overall you should have a good time with the class.
assassins offer a wide arrange of skills, combo's, and plain offensive skills. the assassin was made to get in, unleash combo, and get out before taking huge amounts of damage. most people play them however like a tank with 80 armor and stances for protection, staying in danger for far to long.
so thats why people hate the class more then any other. people have basically imo, flamed a class when they should be flaming the player for not knowing the class.
in the end i'm not saying to stay away from the class, i think its a great class. i have an assassin and i know how to use the assassin. as far as doing everything with henchmen, i never experienced to much hate from people in groups, guildies do help too. but i guess in the end it comes to what you want to do, you may spend more time looking for that group, but overall you should have a good time with the class.
Silver_Fang
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hand of Ruin
Well I just got Factions, and I decided to make an assassin just to see what all the fuss is about, and I have to say they are lots of fun. Much more fun than my Warrio, Necro or Ranger I have... However, I have read people saying things like "Assassins are plain hated" and "Don't expect to find a group if you're an Assassin..." So my question is why?
I'd like to make an assassin, but not really up for henching my way through the game, so what's so bad about them? A lot of bad assassin ruined the name for the class by taking lots of damage. And even if you did it right, you might die and people will think you are one of the tanking assassin. I was trapped once on a bridge by mobs and the only way out was blocked by a guildie pet.
People usaully think that assasin can't deal enough damage to justified the constant death + energy 'wasted' on healing them. And dont try to 'proof' you are not tanking assasin by going for the survivor title, people would think you got power leveled.
I'd like to make an assassin, but not really up for henching my way through the game, so what's so bad about them? A lot of bad assassin ruined the name for the class by taking lots of damage. And even if you did it right, you might die and people will think you are one of the tanking assassin. I was trapped once on a bridge by mobs and the only way out was blocked by a guildie pet.
People usaully think that assasin can't deal enough damage to justified the constant death + energy 'wasted' on healing them. And dont try to 'proof' you are not tanking assasin by going for the survivor title, people would think you got power leveled.
Lambentviper
i have seen alot of the assassin hate turning around recently...hell, even at Nahpui Quarter i saw someone spam:
"Starting masters group!! need: 1 assassin, 2 nukers, 1 MM, 2 monks, tanks.."
but if you can manage groups...hench everything!! even Tahnakei Temple is henchable
"Starting masters group!! need: 1 assassin, 2 nukers, 1 MM, 2 monks, tanks.."
but if you can manage groups...hench everything!! even Tahnakei Temple is henchable
prodigy ming
while all these are true, I have to say that Assassins are fundamentally flawed and needs some buff.
-shadow stepping kinda broken (short radius, long recharge, limited choice, pretty much all of them suck besides Aura of displacement)
-weak armor (ok i can live with this, but not with both broken shadow stepping and weak armor together)
-lack of heal (shadow refuge, way of perfection, and heart of shado are, I think the only heal sins get. Both shadow refuge and way of perfection suggest the player should tank since you will only get the max healing benefit if you are in the fray long enough. heart of shadow suffers from poor "random" shadow stepping, which more often than not is either useless or put you at a worst situation.)
-lack of playing variety. (this may have improved given more time, but with nightfall coming out so soon and how most of the community already hate sins, imo the focus will be directed to the new classes and sins wouldn't be getting any more attention. Right now, in pvp at least 99% of the sins are running the same build with so sort variation involving horns of ox, falling spider and twisting fang.)
-shadow stepping kinda broken (short radius, long recharge, limited choice, pretty much all of them suck besides Aura of displacement)
-weak armor (ok i can live with this, but not with both broken shadow stepping and weak armor together)
-lack of heal (shadow refuge, way of perfection, and heart of shado are, I think the only heal sins get. Both shadow refuge and way of perfection suggest the player should tank since you will only get the max healing benefit if you are in the fray long enough. heart of shadow suffers from poor "random" shadow stepping, which more often than not is either useless or put you at a worst situation.)
-lack of playing variety. (this may have improved given more time, but with nightfall coming out so soon and how most of the community already hate sins, imo the focus will be directed to the new classes and sins wouldn't be getting any more attention. Right now, in pvp at least 99% of the sins are running the same build with so sort variation involving horns of ox, falling spider and twisting fang.)
easyg
There are a lot of reasons why assassins are generally disliked.
One has to do with their shadowstepping ability. Assassins, especially in the early days of Factions, were famous for teleporting into the midst of enemy mobs. Assassin would start taking damage and scream "HEAL ME HEAL ME, and the team monk would have to wade into a bunch of enemies in order to heal him. Finally the monk would get close enough to cast Heal Other, but often he would be casting his spell (and wasting his energy) on a corpse because assassins don't last long when surrounded by enemies.
In the early days, almost no assassins carried defensive skills, and it's still hard for them to equip adequate defense when typically you need 4 skill slots just for one attack sequence -- Deaths Charge plus 3 slots for chained attack. This is the real flaw of the assassin concept. When so many slots are needed for the attack chain, the assassin has literally no room left on the skill bar for all the other stuff he needs at a minimum -- self healing, energy management, condition and hex removal, rez, interrupts, and defense....
Obviously, the typical assassin required the constant attention of the team's monks. And even then they died both quickly and often. They came to be almost universally loathed by monks who considered them a bottomless pit into which they sank precious reserves of energy for scanty returns. The assassin's laudable ability to ixnay 1 particular squishy with a lethal combo, while great in GvG, was less useful in PvE, where there could be 10 or more enemy casters swarming the group all at once.
Plus relatively high energy and skill recharge times meant the assassin needed a lot of downtime compared with other professions in order to keep doing his thing. In Cantha, where groups trying for Masters are under a clock, this obviously presented a bit of a problem.
High DP assassins were commonplace, and there are few professions as useless as the typical high DP assassin. Sometimes you would see a 60 DP assassin standing in the back -- wanding monsters -- because a 60 DP assassin will literally die in a second going toe-to-toe with mobs. At this point, he is next to useless. A 60 DP ele can still cast a full strength meteor shower from the back row. But a 60 DP assassin? He brings nothing to the table and is wasting a space that could've been filled by someone who could actually be assistance to the group.
The whole situation was very lamentable, and so assassins got a bad name in the early days of Factions. You would hear monks screaming "Never again! No assassins! F-n waste of monk energy" in practically every mission outpost. A lot of people still remember those days and still refuse to have them in their groups.
One has to do with their shadowstepping ability. Assassins, especially in the early days of Factions, were famous for teleporting into the midst of enemy mobs. Assassin would start taking damage and scream "HEAL ME HEAL ME, and the team monk would have to wade into a bunch of enemies in order to heal him. Finally the monk would get close enough to cast Heal Other, but often he would be casting his spell (and wasting his energy) on a corpse because assassins don't last long when surrounded by enemies.
In the early days, almost no assassins carried defensive skills, and it's still hard for them to equip adequate defense when typically you need 4 skill slots just for one attack sequence -- Deaths Charge plus 3 slots for chained attack. This is the real flaw of the assassin concept. When so many slots are needed for the attack chain, the assassin has literally no room left on the skill bar for all the other stuff he needs at a minimum -- self healing, energy management, condition and hex removal, rez, interrupts, and defense....
Obviously, the typical assassin required the constant attention of the team's monks. And even then they died both quickly and often. They came to be almost universally loathed by monks who considered them a bottomless pit into which they sank precious reserves of energy for scanty returns. The assassin's laudable ability to ixnay 1 particular squishy with a lethal combo, while great in GvG, was less useful in PvE, where there could be 10 or more enemy casters swarming the group all at once.
Plus relatively high energy and skill recharge times meant the assassin needed a lot of downtime compared with other professions in order to keep doing his thing. In Cantha, where groups trying for Masters are under a clock, this obviously presented a bit of a problem.
High DP assassins were commonplace, and there are few professions as useless as the typical high DP assassin. Sometimes you would see a 60 DP assassin standing in the back -- wanding monsters -- because a 60 DP assassin will literally die in a second going toe-to-toe with mobs. At this point, he is next to useless. A 60 DP ele can still cast a full strength meteor shower from the back row. But a 60 DP assassin? He brings nothing to the table and is wasting a space that could've been filled by someone who could actually be assistance to the group.
The whole situation was very lamentable, and so assassins got a bad name in the early days of Factions. You would hear monks screaming "Never again! No assassins! F-n waste of monk energy" in practically every mission outpost. A lot of people still remember those days and still refuse to have them in their groups.
wilebill
prodigy ming, I agree with every single word, because what you say is obviously true, and ANet should take action.
To OP, I would say that I have six chars and I play the assassin more than any of the others. It does take more skill, but the damage output is addictive.
If you don't like henching, just learn to play well, be helpful and friendly even when you don't get a group, and presently people will include you.
For those times when you do have to hench, make sure you have a longbow. A simple no attribute required 8-11 longbow is just fine. Use this to initiate battle and let the henchies aggro before you go in. The longbow is The Weapon for henching in PvE. Include an archer henchman in your hench group. The archer usually stays at range and makes a good target for the Return shadow skill.
To OP, I would say that I have six chars and I play the assassin more than any of the others. It does take more skill, but the damage output is addictive.
If you don't like henching, just learn to play well, be helpful and friendly even when you don't get a group, and presently people will include you.
For those times when you do have to hench, make sure you have a longbow. A simple no attribute required 8-11 longbow is just fine. Use this to initiate battle and let the henchies aggro before you go in. The longbow is The Weapon for henching in PvE. Include an archer henchman in your hench group. The archer usually stays at range and makes a good target for the Return shadow skill.
Shendaar
As much as I love my assassin, I have to agree with pretty much everything that has been said here. I too believe that the class is flawed, but only in PvE.
The problem is that an Assassin is a single-kill master. An assassin is capable of killing a single target in a very short amount of time, but that ability is quite useless in PvE where the mobs are twice as numerous as your party. I am perfectly aware of what a sin is capable of, but I am also perfectly aware that a warrior who is setup for damage can rack up the kills much faster(no skill recharge and adrenaline is easy to come by) while taking damage at the same time.
Assassins are very good in PvP because a single kill can make a difference, but in PvE, you don't need a character that can only (possibly) kill a target every 20 seconds and more due to skill recharge or lack of energy.
The problem is that an Assassin is a single-kill master. An assassin is capable of killing a single target in a very short amount of time, but that ability is quite useless in PvE where the mobs are twice as numerous as your party. I am perfectly aware of what a sin is capable of, but I am also perfectly aware that a warrior who is setup for damage can rack up the kills much faster(no skill recharge and adrenaline is easy to come by) while taking damage at the same time.
Assassins are very good in PvP because a single kill can make a difference, but in PvE, you don't need a character that can only (possibly) kill a target every 20 seconds and more due to skill recharge or lack of energy.
stillarook
I agree. Assassins are definitely useful in PvP if used correctly. It's just that people take notice the flaws of an assassin much quicker than the flaws of other professions, such as elementalists.
BWoods
I personally like my Assasin, it's only the second character I ever got to level 20, my pervious one being a Wammo. I loved the character, it was easy to use and very productive, but after a while it became real boring since it was zone, mending, glads defense, bonetti's, hit some axe skills, repeat. No thought, just teh same formula for all PVE.
When I started this Sin I wanted to make a character that would require thought but would still have a good learning curve. I did a bunch of research on what I wanted to do and how to play the class carefully, and I've followed most of the posts here to the T. Though most of Factions I've used nothing but henchmen, up until the Boreas Seabed, where I pretty much hit a brick wall with the henchmen due to the Krakken being ridiculously powerful (at least to me)
When I finally decided to team up I joined up with a group of about 4 Wammos and a single Monk and some others (Including my A/Mo). When we got to the mission, we hardly managed to beat the first two teams in the Convication, and when the third team came by, all of the Wammos died right off because then wanted to charge right in against the Mesmer and Ele bosses. They all went down, soon the monk did as well (who did harldy and healing) and I was the last person left. The only Sin on the team, I'm last alive with +8 Dp.
Immediatly I know I'm done for, so I try to get around and Res one of my teammates, but I got hunted down and killed quickly from rapid degen from both bosses. After we get back to the town, one of the guys says "That's why Sins suck, they wear castor armor"
First off, degen ignores armor, second, this Sin outlasted everyone, and was standing in the middle of the fight getting my enchants stripped quite often too, but still living. If it were any Warrior, they wouldn't have lasted any longer than I would have from those attacks. Anyway I joined another group and we did the mission on the first try, with two monks, an interrupt ranger, 2 wammos, a necro and myself.
So yeah, I'd say Sins get a bad rap due to stupid players who have no talent just hitting their tab and space keys over and over. I can't say I'm the best or play Sin idealy, but it just takes common sense and a brain.
When I started this Sin I wanted to make a character that would require thought but would still have a good learning curve. I did a bunch of research on what I wanted to do and how to play the class carefully, and I've followed most of the posts here to the T. Though most of Factions I've used nothing but henchmen, up until the Boreas Seabed, where I pretty much hit a brick wall with the henchmen due to the Krakken being ridiculously powerful (at least to me)
When I finally decided to team up I joined up with a group of about 4 Wammos and a single Monk and some others (Including my A/Mo). When we got to the mission, we hardly managed to beat the first two teams in the Convication, and when the third team came by, all of the Wammos died right off because then wanted to charge right in against the Mesmer and Ele bosses. They all went down, soon the monk did as well (who did harldy and healing) and I was the last person left. The only Sin on the team, I'm last alive with +8 Dp.
Immediatly I know I'm done for, so I try to get around and Res one of my teammates, but I got hunted down and killed quickly from rapid degen from both bosses. After we get back to the town, one of the guys says "That's why Sins suck, they wear castor armor"
First off, degen ignores armor, second, this Sin outlasted everyone, and was standing in the middle of the fight getting my enchants stripped quite often too, but still living. If it were any Warrior, they wouldn't have lasted any longer than I would have from those attacks. Anyway I joined another group and we did the mission on the first try, with two monks, an interrupt ranger, 2 wammos, a necro and myself.
So yeah, I'd say Sins get a bad rap due to stupid players who have no talent just hitting their tab and space keys over and over. I can't say I'm the best or play Sin idealy, but it just takes common sense and a brain.
Whirling Wanda
One problem with Factions when it first came out was that too many people made assassins. Any mission town would be literally 1/4th to 1/2 filled with assassin primaries. On the other hand, 75% of Canthan missions groups are built like this:
1) Warrior
2) Warrior
3) Monk
4) Monk
5) Elementalist
6) Necromancer
7) Open
8) Open
When a town is 25-50% assassins, a lot of them aren't going to get a group. I remember waiting for a LONG time in mission towns waiting for a group. Maybe there was some hate towards the assassin class, but I think the real reason it was hard to find a group was because there were too many of us and not enough of everything else to build balanced teams.
The other problem is that a lot of assassins, including me I have to admit, is that most of didn't know how to play the assassin the right way. When I saw it was a melee fighter, I thought I could play it just like my warrior. In reality, tho, the assassin needs to be played more like a mesmer or a monk. You need to anticipate what the enemy is going to do, or you won't be able to be effective in the assassin role. A warrior can react to a situation and still be effective. The assassin doesn't have that luxury.
To be honest, most people who play the assassin prolly don't have the basic core gaming skills to do the profession justice even today. The general level of assassins has gone up substantially the past month or so, but it's still not equal to the requirements of the profession. An assassin in the right hands is a lights-out killer. In the wrong hands, it's exactly what EasyE said in his post.
1) Warrior
2) Warrior
3) Monk
4) Monk
5) Elementalist
6) Necromancer
7) Open
8) Open
When a town is 25-50% assassins, a lot of them aren't going to get a group. I remember waiting for a LONG time in mission towns waiting for a group. Maybe there was some hate towards the assassin class, but I think the real reason it was hard to find a group was because there were too many of us and not enough of everything else to build balanced teams.
The other problem is that a lot of assassins, including me I have to admit, is that most of didn't know how to play the assassin the right way. When I saw it was a melee fighter, I thought I could play it just like my warrior. In reality, tho, the assassin needs to be played more like a mesmer or a monk. You need to anticipate what the enemy is going to do, or you won't be able to be effective in the assassin role. A warrior can react to a situation and still be effective. The assassin doesn't have that luxury.
To be honest, most people who play the assassin prolly don't have the basic core gaming skills to do the profession justice even today. The general level of assassins has gone up substantially the past month or so, but it's still not equal to the requirements of the profession. An assassin in the right hands is a lights-out killer. In the wrong hands, it's exactly what EasyE said in his post.
Demesis
The problem is not the assassin, it's the people who play them.
pve-er
I agree with everyone that it is the player make all the different, I love my Sins (not sure if I can call it a Sin and not Ass) it is so useful if use right. I use it for Raisu Palace chest run, and keep monk boss busy healing himself in Ring of Chain island mission. and kill those caster during quest or mission in game. people might think Assasin sucks in PvE, but in fact, as long as it is not those elite mission that only certain classed are needed. Assassin is quite useful if play right. especially the Kill Shiro mission.
but Assassin need buff, Shadow step sucks totally, most of time it bring you to the worst place of mob and die instantly, the recharge time is long and energy inefficient even AoD sucks too. ANet need to work on it and hope they are reading this thread in which I doubt they will
but Assassin need buff, Shadow step sucks totally, most of time it bring you to the worst place of mob and die instantly, the recharge time is long and energy inefficient even AoD sucks too. ANet need to work on it and hope they are reading this thread in which I doubt they will
prodigy ming
easyg, very good point. You mentioned these happens in the "early days", but I think they are still an issue even today. Assassins still requires long attack chains, completely useless when they reach 60dp, and monks still hates us.
Don't get me wrong, I love my assassin. In fact, thats the only character I got 15k armor for. But if Anet don't address these problems, It would seriously gives me second thought for playing new professions in the future seeing Anet's lack of concern for balancing and supporting expansion professions.
The quality of player matters of course, but if the majority of the people playing this class seem to suck... there gotto be something wrong other than the players as well.
Don't get me wrong, I love my assassin. In fact, thats the only character I got 15k armor for. But if Anet don't address these problems, It would seriously gives me second thought for playing new professions in the future seeing Anet's lack of concern for balancing and supporting expansion professions.
The quality of player matters of course, but if the majority of the people playing this class seem to suck... there gotto be something wrong other than the players as well.
sabretalon
I use my assassin a good 95% of the time now!
I experiment with builds and in our guild we hold scrimage events to help us iron out any little problems with the build.
The key thing though is to make sure you are part of the team and not a 1 man/woman killing machine (because you never will be!) Place the safety of your healers at the tops of your list, do not wade into full battle as you will not last long. You are a support character and you need to provide support to your healers. If you spot the opportunity to get a quick kill on an enemy healer then do it but make it quick and make sure you do not leave your healers exposed!
A good sin should be calling their targets as well, since you are laying down conditions as well, some of your team mates may be able to take advantage of that! Not only that, other will see your work rate!
I have seen assassins running all over the place on a battlefield and yet they get so few kills! 1-1 against a good monk then you will not have enough power to take them down without interupts. 1-1 against a Warrior, well lets just say, I would not advise it unless they are really low on health!
In PVP lately I have come across more bad players than good! Chased down by a Warrior that had no clue on how to use him! A combo and run, he has bleeding on and is still taking damage but instead of healing himself he runs after me and wasting his time using stances! (now if I had gone toe to toe with him then it would have been different!) Rinse and repeat 1 dead Warrior. A bad warrior no longer gives warriors a bad reputation but a bad assassin, well that is just the norm as far as other players are concerned.
Protect and serve! Spend most of your battle time watching for those that come to attack your healers, if it is a warrior, hit and run and hope they chase you! If you call the target and you are working as a team your warriors should be aware you are on your way to them or they have to come to you! If the other warrior is chasing you they are not hurting your healers! So you are doing your job!
Look at your skills and set your self up with a specific target type! Either to harrass warriors/fighters or to shutdown casters.
Hey if you want to add damage to a fight get yourself a bow with no req and shoot from the backlines whilst waiting around for the right victim!
There is nothing wrong with looking at some of the builds out there but make sure you try as many as possible so you can switch depending on the situation. Also look for ways to adjust the build to suit your gameplay. Oh! and carry a rez sig just in case you mess up and let your healer die!
I experiment with builds and in our guild we hold scrimage events to help us iron out any little problems with the build.
The key thing though is to make sure you are part of the team and not a 1 man/woman killing machine (because you never will be!) Place the safety of your healers at the tops of your list, do not wade into full battle as you will not last long. You are a support character and you need to provide support to your healers. If you spot the opportunity to get a quick kill on an enemy healer then do it but make it quick and make sure you do not leave your healers exposed!
A good sin should be calling their targets as well, since you are laying down conditions as well, some of your team mates may be able to take advantage of that! Not only that, other will see your work rate!
I have seen assassins running all over the place on a battlefield and yet they get so few kills! 1-1 against a good monk then you will not have enough power to take them down without interupts. 1-1 against a Warrior, well lets just say, I would not advise it unless they are really low on health!
In PVP lately I have come across more bad players than good! Chased down by a Warrior that had no clue on how to use him! A combo and run, he has bleeding on and is still taking damage but instead of healing himself he runs after me and wasting his time using stances! (now if I had gone toe to toe with him then it would have been different!) Rinse and repeat 1 dead Warrior. A bad warrior no longer gives warriors a bad reputation but a bad assassin, well that is just the norm as far as other players are concerned.
Protect and serve! Spend most of your battle time watching for those that come to attack your healers, if it is a warrior, hit and run and hope they chase you! If you call the target and you are working as a team your warriors should be aware you are on your way to them or they have to come to you! If the other warrior is chasing you they are not hurting your healers! So you are doing your job!
Look at your skills and set your self up with a specific target type! Either to harrass warriors/fighters or to shutdown casters.
Hey if you want to add damage to a fight get yourself a bow with no req and shoot from the backlines whilst waiting around for the right victim!
There is nothing wrong with looking at some of the builds out there but make sure you try as many as possible so you can switch depending on the situation. Also look for ways to adjust the build to suit your gameplay. Oh! and carry a rez sig just in case you mess up and let your healer die!
Sol Deathgard
reading this forum 1 thing I saw over and over was "sin's combos have long recharge times" what I want to know is what combos you guys are using? I have a 3 hit combo that is recharged as soon as it is finished so I could hit something else, as far as shadow stepping try return, you teleport to a target ally and all foes around you are crippled. And as far as "sins can only kill 1 squishy then they have to get out" In Raisu I took out in an average mob, Monk, Rit, Ranger, then Returned cause I was starting to get attention. keep in mind while I was doing this eveyone was busy with the Sins, Wars, & Mesmers so I killed the targets named above solo. as far as complaining that Sins get limited healing, look at Wars, Heal sig, look at eles, Arua of Restoration, look at rangers, Troll Urgent, look at mesmers, Ether Feast, Even monks are limtited on what heals they can used on themselves. As far as the monks that complained about Sins being an energy sink, your job is to heal, a crappy Wammo, a tanking Ele, necro, mesmer, rit, will drain your energy too, yet eveyone wants most of these classes still.
Turalisj
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabretalon
I have seen assassins running all over the place on a battlefield and yet they get so few kills! 1-1 against a good monk then you will not have enough power to take them down without interupts. 1-1 against a Warrior, well lets just say, I would not advise it unless they are really low on health!
For one, do you not understand the idea of a period?
Also, a good condition combo is jagged strike, temple strike, twisting fangs. Then use contagion to spread it through a mob. You'll have an entire group blinded, bleeding, and dazed with a deep wound on them. This is deadly vs luxons in alliance battles, since they like to mob so much.
Also, a good condition combo is jagged strike, temple strike, twisting fangs. Then use contagion to spread it through a mob. You'll have an entire group blinded, bleeding, and dazed with a deep wound on them. This is deadly vs luxons in alliance battles, since they like to mob so much.
Isil`Zha
I totally agree on it's the people and not the class.
First off, I love my Assassin and I do great with it, including PvE - a good combo for PvE is Unsuspecting Strike, Wild Strike, and Critical Strike and Critical Eye - you can start your combo again almost as soon as you finish it with no inturruptions, especially since Critical Strike along with Crit Eye will give you +8 energy, making CS essentially cost you only 2 energy.
I think what really caused all the Assassin hate was when Factions first came out. As mentioned, 60%+ of people were Assassin primaries, and of those 60%, 95% did not have a clue how to play as an Assassin. Thus, almost everyone now thinks that Assassin's suck, thanks to all the idiots that didn't know how to use them.
First off, I love my Assassin and I do great with it, including PvE - a good combo for PvE is Unsuspecting Strike, Wild Strike, and Critical Strike and Critical Eye - you can start your combo again almost as soon as you finish it with no inturruptions, especially since Critical Strike along with Crit Eye will give you +8 energy, making CS essentially cost you only 2 energy.
I think what really caused all the Assassin hate was when Factions first came out. As mentioned, 60%+ of people were Assassin primaries, and of those 60%, 95% did not have a clue how to play as an Assassin. Thus, almost everyone now thinks that Assassin's suck, thanks to all the idiots that didn't know how to use them.
Yanman.be
I don't suck. Even without teleport spells (My personal skills makes up for not being able to get out of hazard quick )
We cleared forest, forgemaster quest, spider cave...everything. Not a stone uncovered.
We cleared forest, forgemaster quest, spider cave...everything. Not a stone uncovered.
Silver_Fang
There is a way to overcome the high recharge time, like A/W for warrior elite Flourish, or the A/* with the recharge all skill when strike a foe < 50% health.
And not all of the assassin skill require long recarge, some of them got low recharge as well as low many cost, you can pretty much spam them if you want. Dealing low overtime damage or deal high spiking damage, it is a choice for you to take.
And not all of the assassin skill require long recarge, some of them got low recharge as well as low many cost, you can pretty much spam them if you want. Dealing low overtime damage or deal high spiking damage, it is a choice for you to take.
Shendaar
The problem is that in an average PvE situation, an assassin cannot afford to "deal low overtime damage". They need to kill and get the hell out before they die. Of course you can always use a stance or something similar to keep yourself alive, but at this point you might as well make a warrior.
Hanego Ategeh
Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy ming
while all these are true, I have to say that Assassins are fundamentally flawed and needs some buff.
-shadow stepping kinda broken (short radius, long recharge, limited choice, pretty much all of them suck besides Aura of displacement)
-weak armor (ok i can live with this, but not with both broken shadow stepping and weak armor together)
-lack of heal (shadow refuge, way of perfection, and heart of shado are, I think the only heal sins get. Both shadow refuge and way of perfection suggest the player should tank since you will only get the max healing benefit if you are in the fray long enough. heart of shadow suffers from poor "random" shadow stepping, which more often than not is either useless or put you at a worst situation.)
-lack of playing variety. (this may have improved given more time, but with nightfall coming out so soon and how most of the community already hate sins, imo the focus will be directed to the new classes and sins wouldn't be getting any more attention. Right now, in pvp at least 99% of the sins are running the same build with so sort variation involving horns of ox, falling spider and twisting fang.) If Shadow Steps had a much larger range they would be stupidly powerful. I'd agree that AoD is very much better than other Sin shadow steps, partly because of the glacial recharge times on the others. I tend not to use builds that use any other kind of shadow step because AoD (in my opinion) is so much better. This is partly because I have been using a Sin build with a couple enchantment options, so I can use both ends of AoD's Step tactically.
Assassins shouldnt have Warrior level armor without major sacrifice, e.g. of max energy.
I will agree that Sin heals suck. They utterly suck in my opinion, and I almost never use them as a result. I hate them.
As for the lack of playing variety, given that Sin heals suck, and that the best Shadow Step is an enchantment, the GPS-->HotO-->FS-->TF chain is likely to be difficult to compete with for other Sin builds, since it's a good spike with solid degen and deep wound that doesn't require the sin to remain in the thick of combat to get the kill.
I think that if the Shadow Steps and self-heal options for Sins were better, there would be a lot more variety in terms of viable Sin builds. As it is, the Shock Spider (et al), and Crit Barrage base builds seem hard to beat in their various niches for most players, since they allow the Sin to either get in and get out or stay out of close combat entirely.
Anyway, to sum up:
-faster recharges on other shadow steps would be good.
-better self-heals (or self-heals in other attributes) would be good.
-more viable ways of bypassing the onerous lead->offhand->dual chain would be good.
-shadow stepping kinda broken (short radius, long recharge, limited choice, pretty much all of them suck besides Aura of displacement)
-weak armor (ok i can live with this, but not with both broken shadow stepping and weak armor together)
-lack of heal (shadow refuge, way of perfection, and heart of shado are, I think the only heal sins get. Both shadow refuge and way of perfection suggest the player should tank since you will only get the max healing benefit if you are in the fray long enough. heart of shadow suffers from poor "random" shadow stepping, which more often than not is either useless or put you at a worst situation.)
-lack of playing variety. (this may have improved given more time, but with nightfall coming out so soon and how most of the community already hate sins, imo the focus will be directed to the new classes and sins wouldn't be getting any more attention. Right now, in pvp at least 99% of the sins are running the same build with so sort variation involving horns of ox, falling spider and twisting fang.) If Shadow Steps had a much larger range they would be stupidly powerful. I'd agree that AoD is very much better than other Sin shadow steps, partly because of the glacial recharge times on the others. I tend not to use builds that use any other kind of shadow step because AoD (in my opinion) is so much better. This is partly because I have been using a Sin build with a couple enchantment options, so I can use both ends of AoD's Step tactically.
Assassins shouldnt have Warrior level armor without major sacrifice, e.g. of max energy.
I will agree that Sin heals suck. They utterly suck in my opinion, and I almost never use them as a result. I hate them.
As for the lack of playing variety, given that Sin heals suck, and that the best Shadow Step is an enchantment, the GPS-->HotO-->FS-->TF chain is likely to be difficult to compete with for other Sin builds, since it's a good spike with solid degen and deep wound that doesn't require the sin to remain in the thick of combat to get the kill.
I think that if the Shadow Steps and self-heal options for Sins were better, there would be a lot more variety in terms of viable Sin builds. As it is, the Shock Spider (et al), and Crit Barrage base builds seem hard to beat in their various niches for most players, since they allow the Sin to either get in and get out or stay out of close combat entirely.
Anyway, to sum up:
-faster recharges on other shadow steps would be good.
-better self-heals (or self-heals in other attributes) would be good.
-more viable ways of bypassing the onerous lead->offhand->dual chain would be good.
Am I A Good Sin
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabretalon
I use my assassin a good 95% of the time now!
I experiment with builds and in our guild we hold scrimage events to help us iron out any little problems with the build.
The key thing though is to make sure you are part of the team and not a 1 man/woman killing machine (because you never will be!) Place the safety of your healers at the tops of your list, do not wade into full battle as you will not last long. You are a support character and you need to provide support to your healers. If you spot the opportunity to get a quick kill on an enemy healer then do it but make it quick and make sure you do not leave your healers exposed!
A good sin should be calling their targets as well, since you are laying down conditions as well, some of your team mates may be able to take advantage of that! Not only that, other will see your work rate!
I have seen assassins running all over the place on a battlefield and yet they get so few kills! 1-1 against a good monk then you will not have enough power to take them down without interupts. 1-1 against a Warrior, well lets just say, I would not advise it unless they are really low on health!
In PVP lately I have come across more bad players than good! Chased down by a Warrior that had no clue on how to use him! A combo and run, he has bleeding on and is still taking damage but instead of healing himself he runs after me and wasting his time using stances! (now if I had gone toe to toe with him then it would have been different!) Rinse and repeat 1 dead Warrior. A bad warrior no longer gives warriors a bad reputation but a bad assassin, well that is just the norm as far as other players are concerned.
Protect and serve! Spend most of your battle time watching for those that come to attack your healers, if it is a warrior, hit and run and hope they chase you! If you call the target and you are working as a team your warriors should be aware you are on your way to them or they have to come to you! If the other warrior is chasing you they are not hurting your healers! So you are doing your job!
Look at your skills and set your self up with a specific target type! Either to harrass warriors/fighters or to shutdown casters.
Hey if you want to add damage to a fight get yourself a bow with no req and shoot from the backlines whilst waiting around for the right victim!
There is nothing wrong with looking at some of the builds out there but make sure you try as many as possible so you can switch depending on the situation. Also look for ways to adjust the build to suit your gameplay. Oh! and carry a rez sig just in case you mess up and let your healer die! hey every1. I agree with all ur posts. I'm an ok sin that tried to give us our name back and well frankly I'm doing ok. To say the truth I have an a/mo that took a war down then returned and took a caster down. So its adjusting to ur sitch and timing is the key to sins. I won't mind helping some1 make a good sin build as I've made plenty for my friends. So add me and ask for help. Btw any a/mo should have healing hands shroud of distress and live voraciously to heal and dodge. Healing hands heals u when ur atked by enemies especially useful for taking down necros that have their armies up. Also if u get double hits in live voraciously will heal u for each hit. Shroud of distress lets u dodge atks when ur below a certain amount of hp this helps in case u get mobbed in pve. Now u have 5 slots open. Bring a res sig. Now u can use a 3 hit combo or 4 hit. U choose. If u go with 3 hit bring in shadow refuge or healing breeze to counter degen. I'm not on forums much so pm me in the game when I'm on. Ill check these very seldomly. If u have other sin builds then pm me for help. Gl and hf with ur sins. Lets get our good names back. Btw the war I fought and killed was a sword wielder a.d I used a knock down falling spider and twisting fangs as the last part combo so u choose a good lead atk for it. Works well for degen and dmg. Adios amigos.
I experiment with builds and in our guild we hold scrimage events to help us iron out any little problems with the build.
The key thing though is to make sure you are part of the team and not a 1 man/woman killing machine (because you never will be!) Place the safety of your healers at the tops of your list, do not wade into full battle as you will not last long. You are a support character and you need to provide support to your healers. If you spot the opportunity to get a quick kill on an enemy healer then do it but make it quick and make sure you do not leave your healers exposed!
A good sin should be calling their targets as well, since you are laying down conditions as well, some of your team mates may be able to take advantage of that! Not only that, other will see your work rate!
I have seen assassins running all over the place on a battlefield and yet they get so few kills! 1-1 against a good monk then you will not have enough power to take them down without interupts. 1-1 against a Warrior, well lets just say, I would not advise it unless they are really low on health!
In PVP lately I have come across more bad players than good! Chased down by a Warrior that had no clue on how to use him! A combo and run, he has bleeding on and is still taking damage but instead of healing himself he runs after me and wasting his time using stances! (now if I had gone toe to toe with him then it would have been different!) Rinse and repeat 1 dead Warrior. A bad warrior no longer gives warriors a bad reputation but a bad assassin, well that is just the norm as far as other players are concerned.
Protect and serve! Spend most of your battle time watching for those that come to attack your healers, if it is a warrior, hit and run and hope they chase you! If you call the target and you are working as a team your warriors should be aware you are on your way to them or they have to come to you! If the other warrior is chasing you they are not hurting your healers! So you are doing your job!
Look at your skills and set your self up with a specific target type! Either to harrass warriors/fighters or to shutdown casters.
Hey if you want to add damage to a fight get yourself a bow with no req and shoot from the backlines whilst waiting around for the right victim!
There is nothing wrong with looking at some of the builds out there but make sure you try as many as possible so you can switch depending on the situation. Also look for ways to adjust the build to suit your gameplay. Oh! and carry a rez sig just in case you mess up and let your healer die! hey every1. I agree with all ur posts. I'm an ok sin that tried to give us our name back and well frankly I'm doing ok. To say the truth I have an a/mo that took a war down then returned and took a caster down. So its adjusting to ur sitch and timing is the key to sins. I won't mind helping some1 make a good sin build as I've made plenty for my friends. So add me and ask for help. Btw any a/mo should have healing hands shroud of distress and live voraciously to heal and dodge. Healing hands heals u when ur atked by enemies especially useful for taking down necros that have their armies up. Also if u get double hits in live voraciously will heal u for each hit. Shroud of distress lets u dodge atks when ur below a certain amount of hp this helps in case u get mobbed in pve. Now u have 5 slots open. Bring a res sig. Now u can use a 3 hit combo or 4 hit. U choose. If u go with 3 hit bring in shadow refuge or healing breeze to counter degen. I'm not on forums much so pm me in the game when I'm on. Ill check these very seldomly. If u have other sin builds then pm me for help. Gl and hf with ur sins. Lets get our good names back. Btw the war I fought and killed was a sword wielder a.d I used a knock down falling spider and twisting fangs as the last part combo so u choose a good lead atk for it. Works well for degen and dmg. Adios amigos.
Am I A Good Sin
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabretalon
I use my assassin a good 95% of the time now!
I experiment with builds and in our guild we hold scrimage events to help us iron out any little problems with the build.
The key thing though is to make sure you are part of the team and not a 1 man/woman killing machine (because you never will be!) Place the safety of your healers at the tops of your list, do not wade into full battle as you will not last long. You are a support character and you need to provide support to your healers. If you spot the opportunity to get a quick kill on an enemy healer then do it but make it quick and make sure you do not leave your healers exposed!
A good sin should be calling their targets as well, since you are laying down conditions as well, some of your team mates may be able to take advantage of that! Not only that, other will see your work rate!
I have seen assassins running all over the place on a battlefield and yet they get so few kills! 1-1 against a good monk then you will not have enough power to take them down without interupts. 1-1 against a Warrior, well lets just say, I would not advise it unless they are really low on health!
In PVP lately I have come across more bad players than good! Chased down by a Warrior that had no clue on how to use him! A combo and run, he has bleeding on and is still taking damage but instead of healing himself he runs after me and wasting his time using stances! (now if I had gone toe to toe with him then it would have been different!) Rinse and repeat 1 dead Warrior. A bad warrior no longer gives warriors a bad reputation but a bad assassin, well that is just the norm as far as other players are concerned.
Protect and serve! Spend most of your battle time watching for those that come to attack your healers, if it is a warrior, hit and run and hope they chase you! If you call the target and you are working as a team your warriors should be aware you are on your way to them or they have to come to you! If the other warrior is chasing you they are not hurting your healers! So you are doing your job!
Look at your skills and set your self up with a specific target type! Either to harrass warriors/fighters or to shutdown casters.
Hey if you want to add damage to a fight get yourself a bow with no req and shoot from the backlines whilst waiting around for the right victim!
There is nothing wrong with looking at some of the builds out there but make sure you try as many as possible so you can switch depending on the situation. Also look for ways to adjust the build to suit your gameplay. Oh! and carry a rez sig just in case you mess up and let your healer die! hey every1. I agree with all ur posts. I'm an ok sin that tried to give us our name back and well frankly I'm doing ok. To say the truth I have an a/mo that took a war down then returned and took a caster down. So its adjusting to ur sitch and timing is the key to sins. I won't mind helping some1 make a good sin build as I've made plenty for my friends. So add me and ask for help. Btw any a/mo should have healing hands shroud of distress and live voraciously to heal and dodge. Healing hands heals u when ur atked by enemies especially useful for taking down necros that have their armies up. Also if u get double hits in live voraciously will heal u for each hit. Shroud of distress lets u dodge atks when ur below a certain amount of hp this helps in case u get mobbed in pve. Now u have 5 slots open. Bring a res sig. Now u can use a 3 hit combo or 4 hit. U choose. If u go with 3 hit bring in shadow refuge or healing breeze to counter degen. I'm not on forums much so pm me in the game when I'm on. Ill check these very seldomly. If u have other sin builds then pm me for help. Gl and hf with ur sins. Lets get our good names back. Btw the war I fought and killed was a sword wielder a.d I used a knock down falling spider and twisting fangs as the last part combo so u choose a good lead atk for it. Works well for degen and dmg. Adios amigos.
I experiment with builds and in our guild we hold scrimage events to help us iron out any little problems with the build.
The key thing though is to make sure you are part of the team and not a 1 man/woman killing machine (because you never will be!) Place the safety of your healers at the tops of your list, do not wade into full battle as you will not last long. You are a support character and you need to provide support to your healers. If you spot the opportunity to get a quick kill on an enemy healer then do it but make it quick and make sure you do not leave your healers exposed!
A good sin should be calling their targets as well, since you are laying down conditions as well, some of your team mates may be able to take advantage of that! Not only that, other will see your work rate!
I have seen assassins running all over the place on a battlefield and yet they get so few kills! 1-1 against a good monk then you will not have enough power to take them down without interupts. 1-1 against a Warrior, well lets just say, I would not advise it unless they are really low on health!
In PVP lately I have come across more bad players than good! Chased down by a Warrior that had no clue on how to use him! A combo and run, he has bleeding on and is still taking damage but instead of healing himself he runs after me and wasting his time using stances! (now if I had gone toe to toe with him then it would have been different!) Rinse and repeat 1 dead Warrior. A bad warrior no longer gives warriors a bad reputation but a bad assassin, well that is just the norm as far as other players are concerned.
Protect and serve! Spend most of your battle time watching for those that come to attack your healers, if it is a warrior, hit and run and hope they chase you! If you call the target and you are working as a team your warriors should be aware you are on your way to them or they have to come to you! If the other warrior is chasing you they are not hurting your healers! So you are doing your job!
Look at your skills and set your self up with a specific target type! Either to harrass warriors/fighters or to shutdown casters.
Hey if you want to add damage to a fight get yourself a bow with no req and shoot from the backlines whilst waiting around for the right victim!
There is nothing wrong with looking at some of the builds out there but make sure you try as many as possible so you can switch depending on the situation. Also look for ways to adjust the build to suit your gameplay. Oh! and carry a rez sig just in case you mess up and let your healer die! hey every1. I agree with all ur posts. I'm an ok sin that tried to give us our name back and well frankly I'm doing ok. To say the truth I have an a/mo that took a war down then returned and took a caster down. So its adjusting to ur sitch and timing is the key to sins. I won't mind helping some1 make a good sin build as I've made plenty for my friends. So add me and ask for help. Btw any a/mo should have healing hands shroud of distress and live voraciously to heal and dodge. Healing hands heals u when ur atked by enemies especially useful for taking down necros that have their armies up. Also if u get double hits in live voraciously will heal u for each hit. Shroud of distress lets u dodge atks when ur below a certain amount of hp this helps in case u get mobbed in pve. Now u have 5 slots open. Bring a res sig. Now u can use a 3 hit combo or 4 hit. U choose. If u go with 3 hit bring in shadow refuge or healing breeze to counter degen. I'm not on forums much so pm me in the game when I'm on. Ill check these very seldomly. If u have other sin builds then pm me for help. Gl and hf with ur sins. Lets get our good names back. Btw the war I fought and killed was a sword wielder a.d I used a knock down falling spider and twisting fangs as the last part combo so u choose a good lead atk for it. Works well for degen and dmg. Adios amigos.
easyg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Deathgard
In Raisu I took out in an average mob, Monk, Rit, Ranger, then Returned cause I was starting to get attention. keep in mind while I was doing this eveyone was busy with the Sins, Wars, & Mesmers so I killed the targets named above solo.
Sorry, but you didn't kill [email protected] solo. Solo is when my warrior walks into Elona's Reach all by her lonesome and destroys everything in sight.
What you are describing here is a team kill. The only reason you were able to kill these Shiro'ken is because the rest of the guys on your team drew fire for you. There are no solo kills in cooperative play unless the rest of your team is dead or in another time zone. In fact, your job was made easy by your teammates who seem to have taken the brunt of the Shiro'ken assault in order to give you a free hand.
What you are describing here is a team kill. The only reason you were able to kill these Shiro'ken is because the rest of the guys on your team drew fire for you. There are no solo kills in cooperative play unless the rest of your team is dead or in another time zone. In fact, your job was made easy by your teammates who seem to have taken the brunt of the Shiro'ken assault in order to give you a free hand.
BahamutKaiser
Assassin is basicly a spiker who has to be point blank to use dagger skills and suffers from counters even more than other attackers because his combo attacks rely on eachother.
Assassin is ment to be a Hit and Run class, and is simularly difficult with Mesmer for required skill to be effective. But the obvious truth of that is that it isn't balanced, if it was balanced it wouldn't take a master to make good out of it.
Just because a combat master can kill with a spoon doesn't mean that the spoon somehow becomes as good as a blade. Assassin can be used effectively in the hands of advanced players, but the obvious fact that it requires an advanced player to make effective use out of assassin means that it isn't as good as warrior.
Assassin doesn't have the natural damage and armor to do anything without skills, so it automaticly makes it a harder class to play, but many of its skills are completely gimped making them useless to bring and making Assassin very limited in technique. If he is ment to be a hit and run class than obviously he needs effective hit and run skills, but all of his advancing teleports have long recast times, which means that this kind of technique isn't provided. The only way to make good use of advance and retreat teleports is AoD, it provides both in one skill, but it is an elite, which excludes all other elite options from a good hit and run build.....
Assassins retreating teleports are effective, Recall cost too much for a class who needs a great deal of energy to chain, but Return is great. If Deaths Charge was reduced to 15 seconds, than we would be able to advance as often as we can retreat, making it much easier to get "In and Out". And if Dark Prison was reduced to 25 second recast, it would match perfectly with Black Lotus Strike, making it a very powerful advancing technique. Too powerful?, no it isn't, it is powerful enough to compensate for Assassins lack of Defense, it is neccessary to make it balanced. Is Dark Prison going to be too powerful because it provides a slowing hex and teleport?, no, your using a class who requires close proximity to be effective wile not having the proper armor to stay in close proximity, it is a natural neccessity to have frequent teleporting, Dark Prison does less slowing (33%) than cripple, Imaginary burden, and Ice hexes, and has a max duration of 6 or 7 seconds, it needs a 25 second recast to be balanced.
Assassin takes more damage, it needs to deal more damage, that is an obvious equation. He has less defense, he needs better skills to avoid damage, that is obvious balance.
Right now Assassin is GW set to Hard Mode, it isn't an acceptable class in the hands of a newb or even an average player, not because they are soo much worse with Assassin than other simple classes, but because Assassin hasn't the tools to be used effectively outside of certain builds in the hands of an advanced player. Remember that every time you tell someone Assassin is ok, it just needs to be used a certain way, that is a weakness.
I have come to the conclusion that Anets claim of game balance describes the restriction of overpowered builds and unfair advantages, but it doesn't recognize the weakness and deficiency of certain ability or lack of class build diversity certain classes have with their skills, it can't. And to make it much worse, Anet is considering NOT adding new skills to Assassin in future chapters, I don't know if they will add new skills to this chapter instead, but without new skills Assassin will basicly stay the way it is, with no new opportunities for improvement.
Assassin is ment to be a Hit and Run class, and is simularly difficult with Mesmer for required skill to be effective. But the obvious truth of that is that it isn't balanced, if it was balanced it wouldn't take a master to make good out of it.
Just because a combat master can kill with a spoon doesn't mean that the spoon somehow becomes as good as a blade. Assassin can be used effectively in the hands of advanced players, but the obvious fact that it requires an advanced player to make effective use out of assassin means that it isn't as good as warrior.
Assassin doesn't have the natural damage and armor to do anything without skills, so it automaticly makes it a harder class to play, but many of its skills are completely gimped making them useless to bring and making Assassin very limited in technique. If he is ment to be a hit and run class than obviously he needs effective hit and run skills, but all of his advancing teleports have long recast times, which means that this kind of technique isn't provided. The only way to make good use of advance and retreat teleports is AoD, it provides both in one skill, but it is an elite, which excludes all other elite options from a good hit and run build.....
Assassins retreating teleports are effective, Recall cost too much for a class who needs a great deal of energy to chain, but Return is great. If Deaths Charge was reduced to 15 seconds, than we would be able to advance as often as we can retreat, making it much easier to get "In and Out". And if Dark Prison was reduced to 25 second recast, it would match perfectly with Black Lotus Strike, making it a very powerful advancing technique. Too powerful?, no it isn't, it is powerful enough to compensate for Assassins lack of Defense, it is neccessary to make it balanced. Is Dark Prison going to be too powerful because it provides a slowing hex and teleport?, no, your using a class who requires close proximity to be effective wile not having the proper armor to stay in close proximity, it is a natural neccessity to have frequent teleporting, Dark Prison does less slowing (33%) than cripple, Imaginary burden, and Ice hexes, and has a max duration of 6 or 7 seconds, it needs a 25 second recast to be balanced.
Assassin takes more damage, it needs to deal more damage, that is an obvious equation. He has less defense, he needs better skills to avoid damage, that is obvious balance.
Right now Assassin is GW set to Hard Mode, it isn't an acceptable class in the hands of a newb or even an average player, not because they are soo much worse with Assassin than other simple classes, but because Assassin hasn't the tools to be used effectively outside of certain builds in the hands of an advanced player. Remember that every time you tell someone Assassin is ok, it just needs to be used a certain way, that is a weakness.
I have come to the conclusion that Anets claim of game balance describes the restriction of overpowered builds and unfair advantages, but it doesn't recognize the weakness and deficiency of certain ability or lack of class build diversity certain classes have with their skills, it can't. And to make it much worse, Anet is considering NOT adding new skills to Assassin in future chapters, I don't know if they will add new skills to this chapter instead, but without new skills Assassin will basicly stay the way it is, with no new opportunities for improvement.
Karmaniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser
Assassin is basicly a spiker who has to be point blank to use dagger skills and suffers from counters even more than other attackers because his combo attacks rely on eachother.
Assassin is ment to be a Hit and Run class, and is simularly difficult with Mesmer for required skill to be effective. But the obvious truth of that is that it isn't balanced, if it was balanced it wouldn't take a master to make good out of it.
Just because a combat master can kill with a spoon doesn't mean that the spoon somehow becomes as good as a blade. Assassin can be used effectively in the hands of advanced players, but the obvious fact that it requires an advanced player to make effective use out of assassin means that it isn't as good as warrior.
Assassin doesn't have the natural damage and armor to do anything without skills, so it automaticly makes it a harder class to play, but many of its skills are completely gimped making them useless to bring and making Assassin very limited in technique. If he is ment to be a hit and run class than obviously he needs effective hit and run skills, but all of his advancing teleports have long recast times, which means that this kind of technique isn't provided. The only way to make good use of advance and retreat teleports is AoD, it provides both in one skill, but it is an elite, which excludes all other elite options from a good hit and run build.....
Assassins retreating teleports are effective, Recall cost too much for a class who needs a great deal of energy to chain, but Return is great. If Deaths Charge was reduced to 15 seconds, than we would be able to advance as often as we can retreat, making it much easier to get "In and Out". And if Dark Prison was reduced to 25 second recast, it would match perfectly with Black Lotus Strike, making it a very powerful advancing technique. Too powerful?, no it isn't, it is powerful enough to compensate for Assassins lack of Defense, it is neccessary to make it balanced. Is Dark Prison going to be too powerful because it provides a slowing hex and teleport?, no, your using a class who requires close proximity to be effective wile not having the proper armor to stay in close proximity, it is a natural neccessity to have frequent teleporting, Dark Prison does less slowing (33%) than cripple, Imaginary burden, and Ice hexes, and has a max duration of 6 or 7 seconds, it needs a 25 second recast to be balanced.
Assassin takes more damage, it needs to deal more damage, that is an obvious equation. He has less defense, he needs better skills to avoid damage, that is obvious balance.
Right now Assassin is GW set to Hard Mode, it isn't an acceptable class in the hands of a newb or even an average player, not because they are soo much worse with Assassin than other simple classes, but because Assassin hasn't the tools to be used effectively outside of certain builds in the hands of an advanced player. Remember that every time you tell someone Assassin is ok, it just needs to be used a certain way, that is a weakness.
I have come to the conclusion that Anets claim of game balance describes the restriction of overpowered builds and unfair advantages, but it doesn't recognize the weakness and deficiency of certain ability or lack of class build diversity certain classes have with their skills, it can't. And to make it much worse, Anet is considering NOT adding new skills to Assassin in future chapters, I don't know if they will add new skills to this chapter instead, but without new skills Assassin will basicly stay the way it is, with no new opportunities for improvement. I couldn't honestly agree more with you since this fully and clearly encompasses most major assassin deficits. Some food for thought: even though primary assassins would direly need these improvements to be competitive at any level there are assassin secondaries. If skills were improved to cover the fundamental flaws of assassins how would it affect gameplay if those skills were coupled with primary that is less flawed?
Assassin is ment to be a Hit and Run class, and is simularly difficult with Mesmer for required skill to be effective. But the obvious truth of that is that it isn't balanced, if it was balanced it wouldn't take a master to make good out of it.
Just because a combat master can kill with a spoon doesn't mean that the spoon somehow becomes as good as a blade. Assassin can be used effectively in the hands of advanced players, but the obvious fact that it requires an advanced player to make effective use out of assassin means that it isn't as good as warrior.
Assassin doesn't have the natural damage and armor to do anything without skills, so it automaticly makes it a harder class to play, but many of its skills are completely gimped making them useless to bring and making Assassin very limited in technique. If he is ment to be a hit and run class than obviously he needs effective hit and run skills, but all of his advancing teleports have long recast times, which means that this kind of technique isn't provided. The only way to make good use of advance and retreat teleports is AoD, it provides both in one skill, but it is an elite, which excludes all other elite options from a good hit and run build.....
Assassins retreating teleports are effective, Recall cost too much for a class who needs a great deal of energy to chain, but Return is great. If Deaths Charge was reduced to 15 seconds, than we would be able to advance as often as we can retreat, making it much easier to get "In and Out". And if Dark Prison was reduced to 25 second recast, it would match perfectly with Black Lotus Strike, making it a very powerful advancing technique. Too powerful?, no it isn't, it is powerful enough to compensate for Assassins lack of Defense, it is neccessary to make it balanced. Is Dark Prison going to be too powerful because it provides a slowing hex and teleport?, no, your using a class who requires close proximity to be effective wile not having the proper armor to stay in close proximity, it is a natural neccessity to have frequent teleporting, Dark Prison does less slowing (33%) than cripple, Imaginary burden, and Ice hexes, and has a max duration of 6 or 7 seconds, it needs a 25 second recast to be balanced.
Assassin takes more damage, it needs to deal more damage, that is an obvious equation. He has less defense, he needs better skills to avoid damage, that is obvious balance.
Right now Assassin is GW set to Hard Mode, it isn't an acceptable class in the hands of a newb or even an average player, not because they are soo much worse with Assassin than other simple classes, but because Assassin hasn't the tools to be used effectively outside of certain builds in the hands of an advanced player. Remember that every time you tell someone Assassin is ok, it just needs to be used a certain way, that is a weakness.
I have come to the conclusion that Anets claim of game balance describes the restriction of overpowered builds and unfair advantages, but it doesn't recognize the weakness and deficiency of certain ability or lack of class build diversity certain classes have with their skills, it can't. And to make it much worse, Anet is considering NOT adding new skills to Assassin in future chapters, I don't know if they will add new skills to this chapter instead, but without new skills Assassin will basicly stay the way it is, with no new opportunities for improvement. I couldn't honestly agree more with you since this fully and clearly encompasses most major assassin deficits. Some food for thought: even though primary assassins would direly need these improvements to be competitive at any level there are assassin secondaries. If skills were improved to cover the fundamental flaws of assassins how would it affect gameplay if those skills were coupled with primary that is less flawed?
BahamutKaiser
Improving Assassins advaincing teleports doesn't provide any new utilities to the game, it just makes them more accessible. AoD already allows players to teleport to an enemies location every 20 seconds, having Deaths charge at 15 seconds and Dark Prison at 25, is nearly the same rate with a different skill.
The only thing reduced recast time does is allow better Hit and Run builds to be made without AoD, freeing up Assassins Elite slot and allowing them to use their normal advancing teleports frequently. This is about bringing the baseline of Assassin to a reasonable level, instead of only one functional skill and 3 other worthless ones.
I would also like to point out that Heart of Shadows is too weak to occupy a skill slot, it cannot be used enough to provide significant defense, and a random teleport in your own location is basicly a giveaway. It should have a 5-7 second recast, and the duration of the enchantment can be reduced to 10 seconds.
None surprising, other classes, expecially warrior, can benifit from these skills too, needless to say, just because another class can use Assassins skills effectively, even if it is more effectively, isn't sufficient reason to damage Assassin. Blood Magic isn't nerfed because Ranger and Elementist can spam them, Shadowstepping shouldn't be weak just because Warrior can use it.
It will take 2 slots for Assassins to teleport in and teleport out with normal Shadowstepping skills, that is a major cost in its own, and that isn't as powerful as having supreme defense and defensive skills to just stand there and bash away like warrior can either. Low cost, frequently accessible, shadowstepping skills are a neccessity for Assassins to function properly.
I have to say, they did a horrible design job on Assassin, they are supposedly a hit and run class, but in actuallity their weapon nets the least damage figure in the game, and stresses additional hits over time. "Over Time" and "Hit and Run" do not fit in the same sentance, how smart is that? So the classes skills function on getting in and putting all skills down at once, but the weapon focuses on doing minimal damage over time with added hits, that's genious. In defense of multifunctionality, that is alright, but in order to allow general "Hit and Run" opperation, they need to have a frequent teleport in skills.
There are some alternatives, like Dash, and Shadow of Haste. But unless you have another stance to switch too, you cannot return with shadow of haste at will, which means it still takes 2 skills, and both require running instead of teleporting. Running can be used to advance or retreat, but you at higher risk of being stopped, blocked and attacked wile running to your target, that is the kind of skill a Warrior is ment to have to catch his enemy, not an Assassin.
A Shadowstep allows you to reach from full range to point blank instantly, but unlike a running skill, it doesn't help you move faster to keep up with a fleeing foe, nor can it be used to retreat as well. Dark Prison provides a minimal speed imparing hex to keep enemies from running right away, but it doesn't stop them in their tracks like cripple, and it only last for a moment, which is why it shouldn't have a very short recast time, but it certainly shouldn't be a minute, and even at 25 seconds it is quite long. With Deaths Charge the enemy can start running as soon as you teleport to them, and you may not even have the time to start your combo, let alone finish it, 15 seconds is the max recast that should be considered, and the situational healing it provides is far from effective.
Besides that, Recall and AoD are too expensive. AoD is an advancing teleport, which means casting it puts you up to start your combo, using 10 energy and one energy regeneration right before you start a combo is a significant loss, and it could certainly stand to be 5 energy. 5 energy covers the cost of reaching your enemy, maintenance covers the cost of a ready retreat, it doesn't need to be 10 energy. And 15 energy is half an Assassins energy pool at the least, more than half with most armors, the ability to jump to another players location can be useful, but 15 energy is excessive, it could easily stand to be 10 energy.
The neccessity that lies in Assassins Shadowstepping skills is something Anet needs to recognize, unless they are improved Assassins will remain a disfunctional class. This isn't the only class or the only skill type which should be addressed, but it is certainly the most significant, if Anet woln't recognize and remedy this flaw then they may as well stop advertising balance.
The only thing reduced recast time does is allow better Hit and Run builds to be made without AoD, freeing up Assassins Elite slot and allowing them to use their normal advancing teleports frequently. This is about bringing the baseline of Assassin to a reasonable level, instead of only one functional skill and 3 other worthless ones.
I would also like to point out that Heart of Shadows is too weak to occupy a skill slot, it cannot be used enough to provide significant defense, and a random teleport in your own location is basicly a giveaway. It should have a 5-7 second recast, and the duration of the enchantment can be reduced to 10 seconds.
None surprising, other classes, expecially warrior, can benifit from these skills too, needless to say, just because another class can use Assassins skills effectively, even if it is more effectively, isn't sufficient reason to damage Assassin. Blood Magic isn't nerfed because Ranger and Elementist can spam them, Shadowstepping shouldn't be weak just because Warrior can use it.
It will take 2 slots for Assassins to teleport in and teleport out with normal Shadowstepping skills, that is a major cost in its own, and that isn't as powerful as having supreme defense and defensive skills to just stand there and bash away like warrior can either. Low cost, frequently accessible, shadowstepping skills are a neccessity for Assassins to function properly.
I have to say, they did a horrible design job on Assassin, they are supposedly a hit and run class, but in actuallity their weapon nets the least damage figure in the game, and stresses additional hits over time. "Over Time" and "Hit and Run" do not fit in the same sentance, how smart is that? So the classes skills function on getting in and putting all skills down at once, but the weapon focuses on doing minimal damage over time with added hits, that's genious. In defense of multifunctionality, that is alright, but in order to allow general "Hit and Run" opperation, they need to have a frequent teleport in skills.
There are some alternatives, like Dash, and Shadow of Haste. But unless you have another stance to switch too, you cannot return with shadow of haste at will, which means it still takes 2 skills, and both require running instead of teleporting. Running can be used to advance or retreat, but you at higher risk of being stopped, blocked and attacked wile running to your target, that is the kind of skill a Warrior is ment to have to catch his enemy, not an Assassin.
A Shadowstep allows you to reach from full range to point blank instantly, but unlike a running skill, it doesn't help you move faster to keep up with a fleeing foe, nor can it be used to retreat as well. Dark Prison provides a minimal speed imparing hex to keep enemies from running right away, but it doesn't stop them in their tracks like cripple, and it only last for a moment, which is why it shouldn't have a very short recast time, but it certainly shouldn't be a minute, and even at 25 seconds it is quite long. With Deaths Charge the enemy can start running as soon as you teleport to them, and you may not even have the time to start your combo, let alone finish it, 15 seconds is the max recast that should be considered, and the situational healing it provides is far from effective.
Besides that, Recall and AoD are too expensive. AoD is an advancing teleport, which means casting it puts you up to start your combo, using 10 energy and one energy regeneration right before you start a combo is a significant loss, and it could certainly stand to be 5 energy. 5 energy covers the cost of reaching your enemy, maintenance covers the cost of a ready retreat, it doesn't need to be 10 energy. And 15 energy is half an Assassins energy pool at the least, more than half with most armors, the ability to jump to another players location can be useful, but 15 energy is excessive, it could easily stand to be 10 energy.
The neccessity that lies in Assassins Shadowstepping skills is something Anet needs to recognize, unless they are improved Assassins will remain a disfunctional class. This isn't the only class or the only skill type which should be addressed, but it is certainly the most significant, if Anet woln't recognize and remedy this flaw then they may as well stop advertising balance.
Saider maul
All i have seen is so true. Most of the problem with the assassin is how its played.
The CORE of the problem is and test it yourself.... They are a 70 armor class that takes the damage of a 60 armor class. They Have piss poor healing ability and the shadow stepping skill recharges are to high if you choose to not use your elite.
best ran as a monk defender, or hitting single targets on the edge of the agro.
With so much down time it can be fun while fighting but the red light, green light fighting style is rather boring.
I choose to add life sheath and negate most the primary spikes i would take and it increased my number of targets from 1-2 to 2-4+. I may have to run out but i can teleport in and get the jump on them. With life sheath SR actually becomes a functional heal as well as serving for a degen counter.
They have several thing wrong with the sin but care less about what it needs.
Most skill updates are built around PvP and assassins are not popular in 3/4 of PvP. Add in the lack of interest in the class due to stereo typing and we get what we have today.
A slightly broken class that will probably never get the buff it deserves due to its lack of utilitization in PvP.
Hell, its the only class that can not 55. lol
The CORE of the problem is and test it yourself.... They are a 70 armor class that takes the damage of a 60 armor class. They Have piss poor healing ability and the shadow stepping skill recharges are to high if you choose to not use your elite.
best ran as a monk defender, or hitting single targets on the edge of the agro.
With so much down time it can be fun while fighting but the red light, green light fighting style is rather boring.
I choose to add life sheath and negate most the primary spikes i would take and it increased my number of targets from 1-2 to 2-4+. I may have to run out but i can teleport in and get the jump on them. With life sheath SR actually becomes a functional heal as well as serving for a degen counter.
They have several thing wrong with the sin but care less about what it needs.
Most skill updates are built around PvP and assassins are not popular in 3/4 of PvP. Add in the lack of interest in the class due to stereo typing and we get what we have today.
A slightly broken class that will probably never get the buff it deserves due to its lack of utilitization in PvP.
Hell, its the only class that can not 55. lol
Hand of Ruin
After seeing first hand how people play their assassins in the various mission I've been doing in Cantha, I now undestand why people reject them. I'm personally not going to try and sift the morons from those who understand the class, as far as I'm concerned I'll never play along side Assassins anymore.
Am I A Good Sin
Ok every1 once again I agree. I believe we should start and a new thread. 1 on every message board so that anet is bound to c it. We explain to every1 what we think needs to be done for the assassin class. We can have ppl say agree or disagree and the thread could be labeled : Anet admins and gw players read this for action on the assassin class. Something like that. I leave it up to u to decide if we take action or sit here and complain. Complaining does nothing. Action does something. Btw if u need help with a sin build pm me. Also I have tons of builds for other classes so talk to me online as my roto swordsmaster character or pm me thru forums.
prodigy ming
for once I totally agree with you BahamutKaiser.
As myself and various people have pointed out, the major thing wrong with assassins is broken shadow stepping, which makes the lack of healing even more devastating.
Assassins players need to come and speak out; that there is something wrong with this profession and needs fixing instead of purely blaming the players.
Only with enough people complaining will Anet see reason and look at this issue more seriously.
As myself and various people have pointed out, the major thing wrong with assassins is broken shadow stepping, which makes the lack of healing even more devastating.
Assassins players need to come and speak out; that there is something wrong with this profession and needs fixing instead of purely blaming the players.
Only with enough people complaining will Anet see reason and look at this issue more seriously.
Am I A Good Sin
WOOT I was right for once!
lapsus
I agree with the sin being broken, but what happens when we get the buff were asking for (be it better healing, higher AL or useful shadow stepping)? I think the best part of the class is the difficulty of playing and when the sin is finally made equal to other classes a deluge of ppl will play it, which isnt a bad thing, but that brings with it a new steriotype and the problems that it will cause.
I mean look at the state of monks and necros, unless your a healing monk no one wants you and the same goes for necros that arnt SS or MMs. Id rather keep the originality and expiermental possibilty open as opposed to being boxed up. Anything too big ruins the frail open-ness and freedom of thought we have.
I mean look at the state of monks and necros, unless your a healing monk no one wants you and the same goes for necros that arnt SS or MMs. Id rather keep the originality and expiermental possibilty open as opposed to being boxed up. Anything too big ruins the frail open-ness and freedom of thought we have.
Am I A Good Sin
Nothing happens except that sins last longer. We r asking for healing and defence and recharge buffs not buffs that give us much more dmg except dagger max dmg that needs to be higher. We still have to link our skills and stuff to kill an opponent after all does a war kill his opponent without skills? Nope.
lapsus
Um i didnt mention damage. Im thinking further down the road then right away. After a week or 2 at most sins will be boxed with a steriotype, if the bonus is too much, and it more then likely will be at first. Boost shadow stepping and the steriotype will be were only good at hitting bosses. Upgrade AL then we'll be replacement warriors. Make healing better then some genius will get cocky and we'll be all be labled as such. Better the devil you know then the one you dont.
Am I A Good Sin
Yes u r ( unfortunately ) right. If we had faster recharge times and better healing just increase shadow refuge not add new skills. Recharge faster = ur combo is pulled off quicker = more kills =^.^=
hated
Yeah shadow steps really really suck. I've made it a point to never use any ever again, unless I know I have someone to back me up.
Oh and to yammen (the guy who posted the big pic), try using a smaller combo in pve. Something that long and dependant is going to get you killed every time.
Oh and to yammen (the guy who posted the big pic), try using a smaller combo in pve. Something that long and dependant is going to get you killed every time.