Shiro's Not Such A Bad Guy... **spoilers**

if you haven't beaten the game or don't care if you know the ending, then feel free to read the below, as it may contain some spoilers.

========

Alright, well when I played through the game, I never quite understood why what happened to Shiro happened. So let's replay what happened:

Shiro is told that he's going to get murdered by the Emperor during the harvest ceremony.

The fortune teller that told him the Emperor would kill him has told him things that have become true later, so she's pretty legit.

The Emperor looks like an evil guy.

The Emperor breaks the rules of letting people in with him into the harvest temple.

We see Shiro freaking out because he sees everything adding up.

Shiro kills the emperor because he fears for his own life.

We pretty much witness that he kills the emperor, but we don't witness Archemorous, Viktor, and Vizu kill Shiro -- but we know Vizu "turned the tide of battle" while A & V finished Shiro off.

==foggy area==

We don't know what the emperor was planning that day.

When Shiro died he released the Jade Wind, and we don't know how he did it.

After that he became an Envoy, and we really don't know much about the Envoys really...

==/foggy area==

Then like 200 years later he turns people into afflicted for no reason it seems

He wants to become mortal again because he didn't deserve to die

when he comes back, he's killed again and for some reason he just becomes a normal dead person this time.

Then he's banished to a horrible part of the UW for eternity.

---

NOW, please correct me, but I just don't see Shiro as being such a bad guy. Maybe turning people into afflicted was bad, but I think that most the people he killed were from the government which was pretty corrupt. And somehow the Emperor was so great even though the ministries were so horrible. Well sorry to say, but it takes 2 to tango. The Emperor deserved to die. Too bad he killed Togo, still I just have a hard time seeing Shiro as being bad...

Shiro didn't die because he was bad. He died because of his bad voice acting.

The Old Shiro i have to agree was good. The returned envoy shiro was evil. He did kill without remorse and turned people into afflicted. Sure it was revenge, but you can not take revenge on innocent civilians. I do wonder though if the emperor really was planning to kill him. Macbeth anyone? maybe the fortune teller saw the assasination and shiro's death incident and she told him that he was going to die at the emperor's hand (vizu works and protects the emperor) and he made it come true.


[email protected]

maybe they tried to make an american imitate an asian accent?

Shiro was good. Sure he consumed the Emperor's soul with ancient dark sorcery. Sure he once crushed a rebellion and then hung the rebels' heads from the walls of the palace without the Emperor's permission. Sure he killed the fortune teller without second thought. Etc.

Sorry, Shiro was evil.

Eh, just another in a long line of Guild Wars plot holes. How did Shiro release the Jade Wind? What exactly is the Seer, and why does he want to help you fight the Mursaat? What happened to Gwen?

I can answer some of that...

• The Jade Wnd is the result of Shiro's death while he was in the process of consuming the Emperor's soul to become some sort of demi-god. It's logical to assume that the explosion was actually the Emperor's soul being rended after it was pissed for being betrayed.
• First off, there is more than one Seer. They are an ancient race that have been fighting the Mursaat for ages. They are somehow linked to Glint and want to help the Flameseeker prophecies be fufilled. I'm just going to guess that the Mursaat have imitated gods to mess with the other races before, and because of this the Seers have a grudge against them.
• Gwen killed everyone in the betas, and is just in the game as a cameo/subject matter for conspiracy theorists.

http://www.guildwars.com/gallery/video/

Download the Guild Wars Factions Cinematic from there and you shall "witness" it.

Omg, that whole story of factions sucks big time..

Yes it does it sucks very bad and if u watch the final movie and or read the guide it tells u that shiro was looking at dark magic and the death wale thing that caused the jade wind was planed

Well that's the thing about prophecies that are told directly to those who are supposed to fulfill it. Most of them are what are considered self fulfilling prophecies. If you read enough fantasy series, some have them. The Sword of Truth series has a fairly good description of them and why they're stupid.

If Shiro had never heard this prophecy, would the emperor never had tried to kill him (since Shiro goes after the emperor)? Since we don't know if the emperor was really planning on killing Shiro, we don't know. With the information given, the only thing we know is that the emperor tried to kill Shiro after Shiro went after him.

Do we even know what the deal is with the fortune teller? or was she just some random person that Shiro came across . ..

It fits in line with all of Factions since Factions compared to Prophecies seems to have been incredibly rushed. Prophecies cinematics were fairly decent (at least all the sub text was synchronized with the vocals). Factions cinematics were disjointed, some in random places (ooh a random cut scene with a door opening someplace that we don't know ...), and had awful voice acting. Come on now, this is supposed to be set in an Asian environment yet most of the characters had what seemed to be Boston or New York accents. Danika is most memorable for this. The ending to Factions was also pretty anticlimatic. The final mission with Shiro only takes about 2 minutes with an ok team while the final mission with the Lich could take quite a while.

So back on point, the plot holes in Factions just seem to be a product of bad writing and a rushed product since the production team was probably pressured into releasing it according to schedule.

Yeah, I was hoping Factions would have had a better storyline. It was cool how they had flashback to when Shiro was "good", I thought it might be something like a StarWars type storyline of how Anakin turned into Darth Vader. However, Shiro killed the emperor trying to save his own life (the fortune teller said to choose: "either him or you"). The books said that when Shiro was struck down, he released a wail with so much hatred that it turned the sea into Jade. Why was there so much hatred? At the time Shiro was trying to defend himself. From the reading at first, it seems like Shiro was evil and he planned to kill the emperor, but the game shows that it is not true. So Shiro should not have been so full of evil and hatred that his death caused the Jade Wind.

My guess is that he became an Envoy because he was a very powerful warrior. It looks like all the other Envoys were heroes too. But rather than leading newly dead people to the underworld, Shiro decided to abuse his powers and try to take over the world. This Shiro is purely evil, but there is nothing in the storyline that explains why he changed from an ordinary person who was defending himself into someone who wants to take over the world.

Overall, a very incomplete storyline.

They shoulda brought Rurik back.

What happened to Adelbern anyway?

There is another thing I'm a bit confused about. When Shiro was an envoy, right after the Vizunah Square mission, he kills everyone by just doing a small movement. Then he waits until *after* he's mortal to fight us again. He seems to be a lot more powerful as an envoy. Seems like a bad move to be mortal again when he can obviously do whatever he wants (an a lot more) as an envoy in the first place.

Gwen still crashes at my house from time to time. She's a bit of a party animal these days, and is really messed up with drugs. It's no wonder she's got problems what with the troubled childhood she had. Following around wammos, watching necromancers transform dead farmers into undead minions, and don't forget all those red iris flowers people gave her. Those things were as potent as opium. I'd really like it if she grew up and got a job, but I'm afraid if I kick her out she'll just get picked up by some ill-intentioned wammo in full-knights. Also the last time I kicked her out she burned down my garage with Inferno.

Anyway...I like EtherealByte's statement about the fortune teller misinterpreting the assassination, and I agree with the rest of his post as well. Shiro's response to his assassination was wrong, regardless of whether or not his lifetime was noble. He was pressed into the position of power that he was not seeking by the Emperor, and led astray by the ramblings of a poverty stricken muse.

But once he was dead, rather than fulfilling his duties as an envoy, which seems to have been an honorable position bestowed upon him despite his final crime, he chose to become bitter rather than using his power for good deeds or watching to try and prevent other humans from falling into the same position that he had been in during his lifetime.

Shiro was put into unfortunate positions in his lifetime, but just like troubled lives in real life, it's up to the individual to decide whether they turn their bad experiences into opportunities to do good, or use their past as an excuse to relay pain on others.

It's like if someone was abused as a child. Will they take what they experienced and live their lives to prevent future children from being abused, or will they wallow in their pain and let it overflow onto the people around them?

Obviously the "Kill target and all adjacent parties" spell has long recast.

Edit: Heh, seriously it's most likely what the other envoys did that prevents Shiro from using it on you again.

I thought shiro was good but just went slightly mad after his experience.
Shouldnt this be in druids outlook?

Yeah! What in the hell happend to Adelbern?

Play the Titan quests.

The fortune teller only told him 2 things that did happend,that was the coins and the part about the emporer being interested in shiro's "services" if you want to call it that.

Hmm where did you get that from? The emperor looks normal to me, guess its just from which eyes your looking at it.


Its his own rules so hes not breaking it, he is changing it, the reason he does this is cause he trust Shiro so much.

This one is true, in his eyes everything the fortune teller said is happening and is gonna happen

whatch the link someone posted up here, you see the part you are saying is missing.

Someone else explained this part, basicly the emperors "soul" exploded in rage or something simillar

Envoys are spirits/ghosts/angels whatever you want to call it , theyr job is to guide the newly dead to eternal paradise,they are not allowed to mess with the real world ( but they can as shown by shiro and the Viznuah Square mission)

No he didnt, the affliction happend when the jade wind occured.The afflicted see him as theyr leader for some reason :|
The one thing we know he can do is make newly dead be under his control.Cant remember the name of the mission, its the one where shiro and that assasin fight( i swear to god that assasin is just nika...)


He wants to become mortal cause there is only so much he can do while being an envoy, he can controll newly dead and the afflicted but thats it.. thats also why you dont fight him till hes mortal, cause he cant.

I think there are 2 reasons for this, 1 the emperors soul isnt there to give shiro power,2nd the envoys "rejected" him to being and envoy again.

Hmm this is the only part im not sure, i think you are right, that they do say this hen you kill him but im not sure, been a while since i killed him.If that is not the case are you sure they banished him to UW maybe they just frooze him in time and space.( which it looks like by how he looks when they adepts are done with him)
---

Hmm where did you get this from? I dont remember anywhere that makes me believe that the empire might have been a bad one,only the fortune teller tells us this,which is up for discusion wheter or not she was telling to truth or just blowing steam.

sigh, how about this perspective

the fortune teller was telling the truth but wasnt accurate

Q: did the fortune teller forsee the emperor was going to murder Shiro?
A: yes it was tru, as you see Vizu, Victor, and Archemorous doing the job

but the fortune teller did not say why, if she would in fact told Shiro why he was getting murded, it would prevent this attack.

so 2 things, the fortune teller is useless at her job, or she manipulates Shiro, but i'ld go with that shes incompetent

After you beat Shiro down, Suun and his adepts come running out and turn him into jade, his ghost appear and yells at the other Envoys and demand that they release him.

They inform him that as a newly dead he can't tell them anything and in reply to his "I'll be back" threat they inform him that a special place has been reseerved for him in the Under World.

When he shouts "This is not the end" they reply that "he will wish it was."

The only time that we see Shiro turn nobles is in the one Vid aftter Vizunah mission, just walking around we find that the afliction has also taken peasants, both adults and children.

So is he evil, his deeds speak for themselves.

The main lesson we should learn; never trust a poor furtune teller. If the teller is any good they will charge enought to be well off, and if they can't. then thier advice is as good as their cost; a $.05 fortune is worth $.05.

Imo he was once good and became paranoid, which led to his turning to the dark side.

But I think the emporer did intend to kill him, as he broke the rules (only the emporer is allowed in the temple) and also Archemorous, Viktor and vizu where there. Where they there to assasinate Shiro? - Is my thinkiing.

Why though. I do not know.

Nice topic!

Shiro is indeed a complex character. His motives are not entirely clear, and as you said, it seems he acted strictly in defense of himself. His actions later are most assuredly “evil” so it is obvious that he does indeed *become* an antagonist, though if his initial intentions were that of good or evil is unclear.

I guess it really comes down to sociology. Was it nature or nurture that made Shiro evil? Was he born an evil man, or was he driven to his evil ways through life experiences? Was it destiny that led Shiro to slay the one he swore to protect, or was it simply because he didn’t get enough hugs as a child? Perhaps most importantly, did the fortune teller forsee the conflict at the harvest temple, or cause it?

I guess the world may never know…but to ease your conscience he did unleash a plague that turned a bunch of people into afflicted, and then attempted to take over Cantha. I think that is grounds for some “time out” in the underworld, regardless of his original intentions.

Andrew , you just made me have sympate (sp?) for shiro :|


Editops wrote andres isntead of andrew

tbh Shiro kinda reminded me of Anakin Skywalker, which is why the story in Factions seems so bad, someone was channelling George Lucas.

The fortune teller is Gwen in disguise. 200 years before helping the Char invasion and the searing happen, the immortal Gwen decided to screw around in Cantha. When she thought she might be discovered as the reason behind Shiro's deeds she disguised herself as a sweet innocent child and ran to Tyria.

Okay, what i think is that ArenaNet likes Shakespeare. The fortune teller (three witches) and Shiro (Macbeth) and MacShiro killing the Emperor.
Now the ugly fortune teller knows exactly what is going to happen. But since she's bored and wants to see what mischief she can bring up, she only tells Shiro part of the tale. The part that comes after Shiro attacks the Emperor.

The whole faction storyline is overall, imo poorly written and full of holes.
Anet, i know most people don't play online games for their storyline. But please at least put some effort into a coherant story in your furture games.
Thank you.

What happened to Adelbern?

If you look at the timeline of when this is happening, like right when your toon reaches Lion's Arch (or Kaineng conversely), it very well may be that long ago someone set these things into motion. Maybe the fortune teller set Shrio up knowing what could happen. Maybe someone set the Charr on Ascalon, giving them that final ultimate weapon, so the hero's would help the people flee to the only logical place... Kryta, and from there destroy the Mursaat (who really never messed with us before we messed with them). Maybe the whole liche thing was just a setup to get rid of another powerful army (of undead). It's all a reach, but I'd like to think there is an underlying story to this franchise.

Who benefitted from the Mursaat getting owned? The Seers. Who told Shiro he was going to get killed? A Fortune Teller. What is a fortune teller? A seer. Didn't the Seer in Iron Mines say she has been waiting for us a long time? WTF... we follow a seer and we're hero's, and Shiro follows a seer and he's a goat? Maybe there is a story.

I think Shiro WAS a trustworthy guy and the emperor had every right to believe him to be a good body guard. Loyal, not too smart and good at his job, just what an emperor would want.

What the emperor didn't pick up on was that Shiro had already been influenced by the fortune teller. The last prophecy she gave Shiro went so much against what his believes were that he killed her for it, so even then, he was faithful to the current emperor.

The voice in his head repeating over and over again, I'd say, is what sent him over the edge and made him strike first rather than wait for the emperor to make his move.

I can't see the emperor being able to kill Shiro, after all, this is his body guard, someone who's rather good at fighting. Then again, if the emperor wanted Shiro dead, he'd just have to ask Shiro to suecide, and Shiro would have complied without question.

Do we actually know what happened between him dying and him becoming an envoy? The way I see it, in the time between being dead and becoming an envoy, he went through something that made him hate the emperor and his family enough to work his way into becoming an envoy, and then taking revenge on the new emperor for his original death.

Of course, when the other envoys laugh evily and point out that we don't want to know what's in store for Shiro, I'm wiling to take their word for it and hide from them.

The cinematic is different than the final game story, as it has him looking all evil and intent on killing the Emperor from the beginning, whereas he is supposed to be conflicted with the choice of "me or him" in the actual game.

Just like the cinematic for Prophecies has some weird orcish monsters over running everything.

Just inconsistent story telling. I've never been bothered to read anything the quest givers or other NPC's tell me. There isn't anything in this game that really draws me into the story, and the cut scenes are little more than a nuissance. In the Baldur's Gate series I read absolutely everything.

Perhaps the fortune teller told Shiro about the wrong emperor. It was not Shiro's emperor who tried to have him killed, it was the emperor of 200 years afterwards that wants him killed. By the time we step into Factions, we realize Shiro is the threat we must face and Togo goes to tell the emperor. The emperor then wants us to kill Shiro. So the fortune teller was right about the emperor trying to kill him, but wrong as to which emperor. So Shiro killed his emperor, thinking it was he that was trying to kill him, not thinking about the future and only of the present.

As to the emperor letting Shiro and his guards into the temple, maybe it's because he's gotten to the point where he's trust Shiro with his life that he'd wan't him to constantly be by his side to protect him.

yea ill say she didn't see her own death commin

Nah, she knew he'd kill her. She set him up knowing it would cost her her life.

now wingzro might have a good point there,maybe she was looking so far ahead into the future and that is the reason she didnt see her death coming.

Actually that's a pretty good idea.. I never thought of it that way....

the following story are totally make up, read it as a joke like "Scary Movie"

The old fortune teller controlled by Glint (same voice) who was pissed by Kunavung 200 years ago (maybe because ANet make minipet off Kunnavung's look but not Glint), So she tell Shiro that he will be killed by Emperor, which she purposely telling of the wrong Emperor (current one, Glint can see the future). then she secretly inform the leaders of Luxon, Kuzicks and Obsidium Frame that Shiro want to kill Emperor. on the day of Harvest Ceremony, She pass her voice into Shiro's mind, force him to gone mad and kill Emperor. she tell him about the Jade Wind Magic (In fact a Jade Wind Curse against Kunnavung with side effect on other creature in cantha). During the Casting of the Curse, VIzu steb Shiro from the back, Archmores and Viktor then has the chance to kill Shiro.
unfortunately the spell was completed before Shiro's Death, Jade wind Release, corupt Kunavung and torture her soul for the next 200 years until our hero release her from Jade Wind Curse.

Shiro was a good guy, like Emperor said he was dedicated to protect innocent people. but he turn evil because he was pissed by people who make his name bad and people who believe the incomplete sotry that pass down generations

the interesting thing about a story is the viewpoint. When you change it, the plot becomes different.

How about this one....

A woman seeks revenge for the death of her sister. Sounds pretty typical but it's the subplot of The Wizard of Oz. Before you read the last sentence you probably weren't thinking the woman was evil.

That's why I think storytelling is such an amazing thing. So many different viewpoints and ways to tell a story, and there isn't always one best way to.

The cause of many a Guild Wars death.

I think the old witch was the evil one. Shiro was just her pawn.