Shiro's Not Such A Bad Guy... **spoilers**

Markaedw

Markaedw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

N/

24 Aug 2006 at 02:10 - 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by KESKI
This post is getting funny
I wonder where are all those "Emperor is the evil one" or "Fortune teller is evil" theory's facts??
If you find the prove for Shiro been evil is not strong enough, where did you guys get all this Emperor and the Fortune teller been evil??

Bad mouthing the victim's life to defend one's virtue without proves??

However, do we have enough evidence to say Shiro is evil when he was alive??
No, not realy, sure he did a lot of killing, but those are their life style back then, I am sure Prince Rurik did his share of bandit killing(so do we). Clearly Gods in gw dont give a damn about that However killing the Fortune teller and the Emperor is not justify, since Shiro end up an envy, not send to HoH as all hero should. Of course, he wasnt send to the worest part of uw either, so I assume he did do some good when he was alive and kicking

Is Shiro evil 200 years later??
Of course he is, what kind of good envy turn lives to afflicted, terrorize the land, dirt the good dragon, and kill me once??
However Shiro's evil is not so bad compare to the lich king.
For Shiro, its like
"This is me, and this is my armies, defeat us and you win, lose you will all join me."
For the Lich King
"Um...my armies suck(lv 13 undead armies) and the murrsat is guarding soul stone, so I cant use my trump card(titans) to terrorize the land. Ah, I know, I will use this group of know nothing heros to kick murrsat's ass and when they are both tired I will give them both a good kick in the balls"
see~ Lich King just pow Shiro in evilness.

Poor Shiro, doesnt matter how he tried, he cant be the best in the hero or the villain.

Over all, A-Net just did a crapy job on story telling in both GW They give us a big story yet not many detail for players to truly understand and get into the story.
Your right, Shrio wasn't eveil, he just needed a hug , preferably from an female ele in luxon armor or the female rit in fow.

Venice Queen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Washington, DC

A Most Excellent Guild [DUDE]

Mo/Me

24 Aug 2006 at 05:14 - 82
what happened to alderbern?

Gairoh

Gairoh

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

Tsumei village,Shing Jea Island,

A/

24 Aug 2006 at 05:59 - 83
Shiro turned evil after he struck down the emperor as he was consumed by rage. Therefore he still seeks revenge even after he died and spread "The afflicted" in cantha....Before tht,i still stick with my theory on this....And i wonder if u guys notice this,but in prophecies the lich planned to rule all of tyria...but i dont think Shiro was trying to rule Cantha,all his MASSIVE plans was just to wreck havoc in cantha, and be mortal again....He just wanted the canthan empire to fall so he could get his revenge...What do u think??

however one thing still puzzles me,it seems tht the envoy cant really do anything about Shiro when he was an envoy....Does this suggest tht maybe Shiro is the strongest among them and they somehow feared him??i mean there's 4 other envoys, and 1 Shiro, or they just like to sit back, relax and watch the show like Glint and the 5 gods??

Knightsaber Sith

Knightsaber Sith

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2006

Few Fallen Heroes [FFH]

W/E

24 Aug 2006 at 07:02 - 84
I don't think that the other envoys feared him; but I believe they only have command over regular dead people. Probably can't do anything to other envoys. So he comes back to life, regains his mortality, and is promptly slain to be delivered unto the retribution of the envoys that now can act against him.

Calahan

Calahan

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

Europe->Poland->Łódź

Alea Iacta Est [AIE]

Mo/

24 Aug 2006 at 07:21 - 85
Finally, we are the bad guys

Knightsaber Sith

Knightsaber Sith

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2006

Few Fallen Heroes [FFH]

W/E

24 Aug 2006 at 07:41 - 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calahan
Finally, we are the bad guys
Well we were the bad guys when we opened the doors of Khomalie for the Lich; but we rectified that when we killed the Lich and did Glint's quests to destroy the titan's he had already Loosed upon Tyria

Vincaro

Vincaro

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

W/N

24 Aug 2006 at 14:40 - 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Nui
if you haven't beaten the game or don't care if you know the ending, then feel free to read the below, as it may contain some spoilers.

========

Alright, well when I played through the game, I never quite understood why what happened to Shiro happened. So let's replay what happened:

Shiro is told that he's going to get murdered by the Emperor during the harvest ceremony.

The fortune teller that told him the Emperor would kill him has told him things that have become true later, so she's pretty legit.

The Emperor looks like an evil guy.

The Emperor breaks the rules of letting people in with him into the harvest temple.

We see Shiro freaking out because he sees everything adding up.

Shiro kills the emperor because he fears for his own life.

We pretty much witness that he kills the emperor, but we don't witness Archemorous, Viktor, and Vizu kill Shiro -- but we know Vizu "turned the tide of battle" while A & V finished Shiro off.

==foggy area==

We don't know what the emperor was planning that day.

When Shiro died he released the Jade Wind, and we don't know how he did it.

After that he became an Envoy, and we really don't know much about the Envoys really...

==/foggy area==

Then like 200 years later he turns people into afflicted for no reason it seems

He wants to become mortal again because he didn't deserve to die

when he comes back, he's killed again and for some reason he just becomes a normal dead person this time.

Then he's banished to a horrible part of the UW for eternity.

---

NOW, please correct me, but I just don't see Shiro as being such a bad guy. Maybe turning people into afflicted was bad, but I think that most the people he killed were from the government which was pretty corrupt. And somehow the Emperor was so great even though the ministries were so horrible. Well sorry to say, but it takes 2 to tango. The Emperor deserved to die. Too bad he killed Togo, still I just have a hard time seeing Shiro as being bad...
Watch the intro Video, You do see them kill Shiro. I like that Video

seanedsw28

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

28 Aug 2006 at 00:29 - 88
There is one thing about this that we don't know, what is the emporer's side of this. Why would you hire a man as your body guard just to kill him. Second you don't kill a man alone in a temple when you know how strong he is, you kill him when he is most vulnerable. lastly if you kill in a temple you put him in chains. Now this is how I think what the emporer's pesective would be. Your personal fortune teller (that is so good she would not be on a street corner), tells you that there is a plot in your life. What do you do? You find the strongest thoughest person in your army to protect you some one who ius beyond reproach, (that is Shiro by the way). Then you get a message from the ultra powerful fortune teller that it will happen at the harvest ceramony. He is goiong to change the rule that will bring in some one to watch his back. He probaly brought in the group to use the rit to bind the assassin down so that Shiro couyld take care of him. Also we need one thing to metion about Shiro, you don't get a reputation of being toughest by showing mercy he would of had some little evil in him from the star that grew. becuase if it was me that the emporer wanted to kill I would have got the heck out of Cantha and go where i would not be found. When Shiro herd from the street corner fortune teller (who was there because she was so bad that no one would hire her) that the Eporer was going to kill him he was over come by that evil that he had in him he deciced that it was going to be him or his boss.One more thing about the emporer he was a good man a little pompus but what leader is not. he thought that he woud ber protected from this threat not knowing oit was Shiro now insane with rage and evil, and yes Shiro is evil the emporer's only crime was trusting the wrong man to bad it cost him his life as a consequence.

tomcruisejr

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

28 Aug 2006 at 05:30 - 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by beleg curudin
I have a great story to place in the gaps of this.

the old 200 year ago emperior had descovered a way to live forever, his body would be preserved against age by stealing the life force of the ones he kills, but his body is already quite old, and so he unearths a spell that will let him take the body of one who kills him. So he find the strongest warrior in the land and hires a peasent to pretend to be a fortune teller and reel shiro in. The emperiors plan goes right.

He says the incantation just as Shiro strikes him down, The soul of the Emperior leaves his body and consumes Shiro's soul. From there the Luxons and kurzicks that were on the island attack, so The now Emperior starts his body preservation spell and kills anyone that comes near, but he has underestimated the warriors and is quickly struck down, and when he dies the spell of presurvation he was charging explodes into what was known as the Jade wind, preserving the majority of Cantha, in the state it was in.

The end result, the emperiors Soul having consumed Shiro's has taken its appearance, and the great warrior Shiro was to be given the great Honor of being inducted as a Envoy upon his death, the Emperior uses this as his advantage and works toward his goal of regaining his body, and beginning his spell of preservation anew.

His spirit connection between the new emperior and himself is do to the new emperior being one of his decendants. Which is a requirement for his reincarnation spell, he must use the blood of his body, but since his body is long gone, a decendants is the next best thing.

He is reborn, and is soon defeated by the heros, but Suun is wise and knows that the preservation spell would unleash another jade wind so the students seal him in jade to prevent it.

Being reborn his life had begun with a clean slate which he choice for evil, so he was not gifted a envoy position and thus was sent to the UW.

looks like you wrote the whole story line for the game, man.

Lambentviper

Lambentviper

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Noobs Just Took Halls [WTF]

Mo/E

30 Aug 2006 at 23:58 - 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanedsw28
When Shiro herd from the street corner fortune teller (who was there because she was so bad that no one would hire her)

who hires fortune tellers?

its not actually like they had a heirarchy of fortune tellers or anything, and not everyone could just tell the fortunes of random people.

Jumnious

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

[GoDz]

N/Me

31 Aug 2006 at 02:11 - 91
My theory is, when Shiro came to learn that oh! the emperor is going to kill me and he came to beleive the Fortune Teller when it was confirmed that he got the position and such she had said would happen. THere is where Shiro started to believe in the Fortune Teller's prophecies.

When she told Shiro that the emperor was going to kill him, he killed her because she was talking mess about his master. In Ninpo, the ninjas would not allow people to talk division and talking mess about their sensai and such. So I think that would be a reason to why he killed her. But her dying words left doubt in his mind... 'avoid the harvest ceremony' and other misc. sh!t.

In the intro. movie you see him looking at the emperor with an angry face, but the guy's scars always make him angry looking. He was in frustration dealing with his loyalty and the fact that hey! this guy ( emperor ) is breaking rules and is going to try and kill me! He wasn't pissed... just confused and frustrated with the big reason, why!?

When it came to the point to where he was convinced the emperor was going to kill him, he went for the kill. And being thinking he was justified in killing the man he thought was going to kill him, "betray" him, he absorbed his life force. OF course he was killed and with his last breath, he did the Jade wind thing. He was thinking... "I was betrayed by those I trusted and served, now I will let them feel some power" Boom! and such...

Now having been dead and hanging out in the Mists, I'm sure he mulled it over and wanted his life back. ( which was taken from him by his so called "murderers" ) So he went throughout Cantha, going through the libraries trying to find books and ancient spells to be able to come back to having mortal life again. It was said throughout the game, that whoever Shiro came in contact with became afflicted. Yea, having been murdered ( in his thinking ) he was going to have some fun, cause some Mayhem in the Market and such. "Let's slow down my enemy so that I may have time to find the spells to become alive again" was probably a reasoning he had to becoming back alive.

If someone threatened me, I killed him, but his people killed me still. I still would be convinced that I was murdered. I want my life back which was taken from me...

ANyone get my point?

Sorry for spelling and caps. lock messing up...

Addone_Abaddon

Addone_Abaddon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Jersey, Channel Islands

Perfection Is Everything [PiE]

W/

31 Aug 2006 at 11:04 - 92
shiro's not a bad guy, I just hate him for is voice acting and bringing the hardest things I've ever had to fight, the afflicted.

rotielover

rotielover

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/Mo

29 Sep 2006 at 20:43 - 93
Shiro was supposed to be the Emperor's trusted bodyguard. Considering this was based on Asian culture, I would assume that at some point he pledged his life to the emperor.

When he found out the Emperor planned to kill him, his response should have been to give the Emperor his blades and offer him his head for whatever offense had been perceived. Instead we get him killing the emperor in a move that has no honor whatsoever - that alone tells me Shiro deserved his ultimate fate.

my 2 cents - stupid Shiro!

Superdarth

Superdarth

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

29 Sep 2006 at 21:30 - 94
Actually,the cinematic trailer shows vizu disarming shiro and attacking him,then shows Archemorus and Victor pick up shiro's blades and strike him down,in that cinematic shiro also absorbs the emperors soul and uses the power gained from it th defeat the large amount of soldiers and unleash the jade wind,using the power of the dragonblood he succeeded,i think he became an envoy because of his sins in life(murdering the emperor and all),i mean..youd ALWAYS have someone to escort to the afterlife,without realy going there youreself,sounds like one terrible job,but i suppose it was a mild punishment,however,the reason he has these afflicted is to battle cantha,he searches cantha for information and his spirit is so corrupted,that anyone near will become afflicted,slowly,shiro walks around ALOT,also any dead he is supposed to escort to the mists he turns into soldiers aswell,wich is the cause for that rather impressive army.

He wasnt badass at first,but i think killing the emperor corrupted him bigtime.

Thomas.knbk

Thomas.knbk

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

29 Sep 2006 at 21:39 - 95
"U dont need to read teh quest dialog. It's useless"
"ZoMG Skip cutscene ffs"
"ZoMG thIs sTorY sUcKs BiG tiMe AneT HiRe PRoS plX"

hmmmmm.......

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

29 Sep 2006 at 22:41 - 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyfour-onesevenfive
What about the Seers in Prophecies, did they seem kosher to you?

The envoys are spiritual beings that guide the dead on their way to the afterlive. As such, they should be beyond the concept of "good and evil". Very much like the classical figure of Death himself. He doesn't seem like a "nice person" either, does he? He doesn't care if someone was good or bad, if someone's time has come, he will take his life. Absolutely neutral.

Shiro is upsetting the order of things by abusing his position as an envoy (he clearly isn't beyond good or evil *). That's why the envoys have to intervene themselves.

*Shiro is evil. Maybe he has not always been evil. Killing the fortune teller in a fit of rage may be passed as mental incapacity. I think that's what mondern day's laws would call it. One can argue whether it was justifyable to kill the old emporer and his entourage at the Harvest Ceremony as an pre-emptive strike ** (I don't think it was, but well, one can argue). Trying to come back from the afterlife, ok, nothing wrong with that per se. But turning random people all over the land into afflicted - that has nothing to do with getting his revenge at the ones who killed him, that is plainly evil.

**As for the reason why the emporer would want to kill Shiro: I always pictured that the emporer was afraid of Shiro for some reason. He may have had seconds thought about employing him as his bodyguard. After getting to know him closer, he may have noticed the spark of insanity in Shiro. He knew, he couldn't just send someone like Shiro away, as he would singlehandedly take on the whole palace guard. So he planned to kill him. Also keep in mind that Shiro isn't the only one who may consult fortune tellers. The emperor may have known that Shiro was going to kill him and may have planned an pre-emptive strike himself (oh the horrors of paradoxon!). But that, of course, is all purely speculative.
When it comes to the seers I would have to say they have there own agenda with the Mursaat out of the way they can now purse that.They were useing as the new chosen ones (US) by Glint to rid them of the Mursaat and the Lich and what about the jade armour anything to do with the jade wind.I think there is more to the seer than we know sure they helped at thier own benefit now they are free to what ever they have in plans.The seers are similiar to the Mursaat and where did they come from?

prism2525

prism2525

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Among dead bodies.

The Republic of Sky Pirates

E/

29 Sep 2006 at 22:58 - 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotielover
Shiro was supposed to be the Emperor's trusted bodyguard. Considering this was based on Asian culture, I would assume that at some point he pledged his life to the emperor.

When he found out the Emperor planned to kill him, his response should have been to give the Emperor his blades and offer him his head for whatever offense had been perceived. Instead we get him killing the emperor in a move that has no honor whatsoever - that alone tells me Shiro deserved his ultimate fate.

my 2 cents - stupid Shiro!
If he did something wrong, maybe. But the FT says only that the Emperor fears Shiro's power, not that he did anything wrong.

IMO Shiro is just a noob who can't see that the old lady is a fraud. I bet it was she that put those coins so that Shiro would find them. Then with his promotion, telling him so made Shiro more dutiful and so the emperor noticed him more and promoted him. and then of course she only had to tell shiro that the emperor was going to kill him and let shiro do all the rest. Dunno her reason though...

The envoy Shiro is evil, full of hatred against the mortals that fooled him and wanna make 'em pay, only he unleashes on every mortal he sees...

Ork Pride

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

29 Sep 2006 at 23:39 - 98
Factions story sucked so bad, Napoleon Dynamite story was better than Factions.

Merlin Munk

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mazters Of Doom (MOD)

Mo/Me

30 Sep 2006 at 03:29 - 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndName
I think the old witch was the evil one. Shiro was just her pawn.
My thoughts exactly. When I see the movies, I get the feeling she is useing shiro too kill the emperor(Dont know why).