anet admins and gw players read this! this may change assassins future.
Am I A Good Sin
Hi. Anet admins. I have a few questions. Y do assassins have limited healing and LOW base dagger dmg? Also y do assassins have so much high energy costs such as recall? U say that u want balance but when it comes to it assassins have hardly any healing like other professions do and hardly any defences. For a melee fighter they should have more defences and if not that then better armour or lower energy costs and recharge time. I mean who wants a kill every 20 seconds? Sometimes not even that since some won't die from 1 combo. Also what about the daggers? Sure they r cool and u do get 2 hits SOMETIMES but knives are as sharp and deadly as a sword so y not at least sword based max dmg? What about the combos all being linked? U should have a skill that lets u use any atk without linking it and the skill lasts for 20 seconds something like that. Assassins r hit and run right? As I have seen there r few hit and run skills maybe a running skill that teles u back where u started the skill but I mean wouldn't it be tough to reach and kill ur opponent in a certain time without getting mobbed or shadowstepping 5 steps away? All these r problems that lead to the player not being good with the class, but in reality the class just isn't good. Its a fun class I must admit but its no fun dieing every 20 seconds cause ur armour isn't good or u don't have anything to dodge attacks or block em. And of course u say well shadow form does dodge those but shadow form is an elite and takes an elite slot up so y use it when u can put something in to make u last longer than however long shadow form lasts cause 1 hit and ur dead. So plz change the assassin class for the good of all guild wars. I'm not asking for stances or warrior type armour just maybe instead of 70 how bout 85? How bout more healing or shadow refuge lasting as long as healing breeze? Lower energy costs is a neccessity to link ur combos. Some defences like whirling defence and lightning reflexes would even the tables a bit. I'm sure just doing 2 or 3 of these suggestions would say that u care what ur customers think and that u r trying ur best to please us. And to the guild wars players. Post what u think should be done. I'm sure my ideas scrath the surface of what u think.
lapsus
Idk man, the class is balanced nicely but i agree with you on the dagger damage. it is really low in mt opinion but if it were much higher the combos would become overly powerful. Theres also a large number of healing and defense skills. Crit defense and WoP are good skills to have. Crit Defense makes you almost immune to attacks (75% block, i think) so long as you crit every 6 secs. and WoP heals you 27 health every crit so that helps out healing and defense. to supe up the armor of the sin would further push the line of un-balance, if the lack of Armor bothers you get Nightstalkers or Valkyrie that should help out alot.
Zinger314
You just killed English. 
Anyways, your suggestions are unrealistic. It's the player that's crap, not the class. (to an extent.)
Anyways, your suggestions are unrealistic. It's the player that's crap, not the class. (to an extent.)
Am I A Good Sin
Well u c here is where ur wrong. I've seen the 70 armour get tons of dmg from power atk alone ( I got 60 from it with maxed armour ) also eneergy costs r to high to get in and out and kill an opponent lets just say 5 to get in. 5 for lead atk then 10 for offhand then 5 for dual and 10 for leaving most of the times its 5 + 10 + 10 + 5 then the cost of getting out around 5 I geuss. There's 35 energy taken and some combos r 4 atks long. Like some I've seen take 35 energy on the combo itself. The assassin was made to get in kill get out. Energy cost = to high. Better armour = survive to get enough energy to live to get out. And where do u heal at? That takes energy to. There is to high enrgy cost and not enough energy. And yes the daggers should be more powerful. I'm not saying make the assassins armour a lot better just a lil bit and energy raise the assassins or cut down on energy cost. Those alone would allow a sin to live to tell the story of a kill ( I mean the ideas I listed on this post not the ones in the beginning , those would help to ). Don't forget u also have to get ur skills recharged to get in kill and get out again and that's a lot of down time.
lapsus
Hehe yet again all skill choice. Some skills (unsuspecting strike, wild blow, critical strike, WoP, CD and WoTL to name a few) have either fast recharges or a duration as long as or longer then the re-charge time. And although shadow stepping takes time the point is to hit, run and heal. not hit, run, hit again and run. Also the energy management is the players problem, i can pull my full combo and half again with only a few attacks not skills, all in all i think the energy required is like 30, if you wait a second or 2 to regen before you rush in.
Mr D J
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
You just killed English.
QFT.
Back to the subject. IMO assassins are balanced. Did you see assassins from evil own hardcore?
QFT. Back to the subject. IMO assassins are balanced. Did you see assassins from evil own hardcore?
Am I A Good Sin
Ok so some skills take a while to charge and some don't. But shadowstep skills normally take a while to recharge ( deaths charge for instance ) and some ( such as recall ) take to much energy. They could cut down a bit on energy don't ya think? Maybe make shadow refuge last longer? But think of the daggers this way. A war has 1 big sword right. And u as a sin have 2 equally sharp knives. The least anet could do is raise the daggers to a higher max dmg and a higher least dmg. The armour could be increased a lil bit to maybe by 5 or 10 at max. They rnt big changes but at least theyr good changes right. Just 1 of these would help all sins.
Relambrien
The OP posted again as I was typing this, so for any inconsistencies see the area labeled EDIT: at the end of the post.
Here are the points the OP made, in an easy-to-understand format. I will make my own responses to them AFTER I finish listing them out.
1. Assassins have very little self-healing compared to other professions.
2. Daggers have a low base damage, and should be buffed to 15-22 like a sword.
3. Assassins are meant to be played in a hit-and-run style, yet have few skills to support this. Thus, their armor level should be increased to compensate.
4. Assassins have very few blocking or evasion skills, which is a problem as they are melee characters.
5. Shadow Form is an awful skill in that it takes up an elite, and once it runs out you're dead.
The rest is pretty incomprehensible to me, might I suggest you look at Rule #9 in the Forum Rules, OP?
And in his second post...
6. The Energy cost for Assassin skills is too high, and combos aren't possible when you expend 35 energy to do one combo and get out.
Anyway, here are my responses to the OP's points.
1. Assassins aren't meant to need much self-healing. They are supposed to Shadow Step in, get a quick combo off and then get back before they can take too many hits. In PvE this shouldn't be a problem as long as you have a decent tank. Also, see my response to point number three for more info.
2. Dagger damage is fine. Without skills, an assassin has approximately the same dps as an axe warrior. This was tested on the AL 60 dummies in the Isle of the Nameless.
3. Here is a list of all the hit-and-run style skills the Assassin has, at least those that I can think of off the top of my head:
Aura of Displacement
Death's Charge
Return
Recall
Caltrops
Dark Escape
Shadow of Haste
Dash
Spirit Walk
And I'm sure there are more. As you can see, there is no problem with the hit-and-run capability of the Assassins. If anything, just Death's Charge in, combo, Dark Escape out. Spirit Walk is good if you have a Ranger or Ritualist on your team. The Assassin has plenty of hit-and-run skills.
4. I already said that Assassins aren't meant to take damage. Thus, blocking and evasion skills aren't needed so long as the Assassin can actually be played well by the person using it.
5. Shadow Form is actually the answer to your prayers, OP. Cast it just as you go in, get a combo off, and run back to your backline before it runs out. A Monk or someone can then heal you while the enemies are still fighting the tank, provided the tank is actually doing his job.
6. I play an Assassin in both PvE and PvP and never have an Energy problem. Why? Because I choose my skills carefully. Way of the Lotus is excellent energy management, particularly in PvE. I also generally prefer to skip the lead attack and go right to the powerful attacks by using Golden Phoenix Strike, which is an off-hand attack that doesn't need to follow a lead attack. And about recharging and downtime, what do you think Assassins are supposed to do after the "run" part of "hit-and-run?" They wait and regen until they can spike again. That's what they're best at: spiking one target. Thus, energy should never be a problem.
So no, Assassins do not need a buff. They are perfectly fine as-is. The only reason you see them dying so much is because many people who play them can't play them well. Their damage output is top-notch, and their armor is lower to act as a balance. If played correctly, armor shouldn't be a factor at all anyway. Assassins have Energy management skills of their own, so that isn't a problem either.
Now, and I MUST stress this...
View Rule #9 in the Forum Rules section as soon as possible, OP, please. Adhering to it will make everyone's life a little easier. Though in your most recent post you seem to be adhering to it MUCH more than your first two.
EDIT: OP posted again as I was typing this.
Now, I agree that Death's Charge has a long recharge time. But if you play well and let the tank gather aggro before going in, then you won't need to shadow step anyway. You could always use Dark Escape as a panic button. For PvP purposes, Assassins are used as solo base-gankers. They are FANTASTIC at this because of one skill: Aura of Displacement. It's a maintained enchantment, but all you use it for is to get up, unleash your combo, and get out while the degen kills your target. Its recharge is 20 seconds, but you'll be recharging other skills during that time frame anyway.
Also, read above for the argument on dagger damage. Trust me, it's unnecessary. Sins do enough damage as it is. Besides, what's gonna hurt more? A 4-inch dagger wound or an 12-inch sword gash?
Here are the points the OP made, in an easy-to-understand format. I will make my own responses to them AFTER I finish listing them out.
1. Assassins have very little self-healing compared to other professions.
2. Daggers have a low base damage, and should be buffed to 15-22 like a sword.
3. Assassins are meant to be played in a hit-and-run style, yet have few skills to support this. Thus, their armor level should be increased to compensate.
4. Assassins have very few blocking or evasion skills, which is a problem as they are melee characters.
5. Shadow Form is an awful skill in that it takes up an elite, and once it runs out you're dead.
The rest is pretty incomprehensible to me, might I suggest you look at Rule #9 in the Forum Rules, OP?
And in his second post...
6. The Energy cost for Assassin skills is too high, and combos aren't possible when you expend 35 energy to do one combo and get out.
Anyway, here are my responses to the OP's points.
1. Assassins aren't meant to need much self-healing. They are supposed to Shadow Step in, get a quick combo off and then get back before they can take too many hits. In PvE this shouldn't be a problem as long as you have a decent tank. Also, see my response to point number three for more info.
2. Dagger damage is fine. Without skills, an assassin has approximately the same dps as an axe warrior. This was tested on the AL 60 dummies in the Isle of the Nameless.
3. Here is a list of all the hit-and-run style skills the Assassin has, at least those that I can think of off the top of my head:
Aura of Displacement
Death's Charge
Return
Recall
Caltrops
Dark Escape
Shadow of Haste
Dash
Spirit Walk
And I'm sure there are more. As you can see, there is no problem with the hit-and-run capability of the Assassins. If anything, just Death's Charge in, combo, Dark Escape out. Spirit Walk is good if you have a Ranger or Ritualist on your team. The Assassin has plenty of hit-and-run skills.
4. I already said that Assassins aren't meant to take damage. Thus, blocking and evasion skills aren't needed so long as the Assassin can actually be played well by the person using it.
5. Shadow Form is actually the answer to your prayers, OP. Cast it just as you go in, get a combo off, and run back to your backline before it runs out. A Monk or someone can then heal you while the enemies are still fighting the tank, provided the tank is actually doing his job.
6. I play an Assassin in both PvE and PvP and never have an Energy problem. Why? Because I choose my skills carefully. Way of the Lotus is excellent energy management, particularly in PvE. I also generally prefer to skip the lead attack and go right to the powerful attacks by using Golden Phoenix Strike, which is an off-hand attack that doesn't need to follow a lead attack. And about recharging and downtime, what do you think Assassins are supposed to do after the "run" part of "hit-and-run?" They wait and regen until they can spike again. That's what they're best at: spiking one target. Thus, energy should never be a problem.
So no, Assassins do not need a buff. They are perfectly fine as-is. The only reason you see them dying so much is because many people who play them can't play them well. Their damage output is top-notch, and their armor is lower to act as a balance. If played correctly, armor shouldn't be a factor at all anyway. Assassins have Energy management skills of their own, so that isn't a problem either.
Now, and I MUST stress this...
View Rule #9 in the Forum Rules section as soon as possible, OP, please. Adhering to it will make everyone's life a little easier. Though in your most recent post you seem to be adhering to it MUCH more than your first two.
EDIT: OP posted again as I was typing this.
Now, I agree that Death's Charge has a long recharge time. But if you play well and let the tank gather aggro before going in, then you won't need to shadow step anyway. You could always use Dark Escape as a panic button. For PvP purposes, Assassins are used as solo base-gankers. They are FANTASTIC at this because of one skill: Aura of Displacement. It's a maintained enchantment, but all you use it for is to get up, unleash your combo, and get out while the degen kills your target. Its recharge is 20 seconds, but you'll be recharging other skills during that time frame anyway.
Also, read above for the argument on dagger damage. Trust me, it's unnecessary. Sins do enough damage as it is. Besides, what's gonna hurt more? A 4-inch dagger wound or an 12-inch sword gash?
lapsus
It just is stressing patience, deaths charge is only useful to hit a dieing or soft enemy. Daggers should do less damage then swords though, they are 1/8the size of said 2 handed monster sword. An armor increase of a small portion like that wouldnt help at all, its not enough to make a differance. If shadow refuge lasted longer itd be healing breeze.
stillarook
I wish they'd make more teleportation skills that somewhat like AoD, but with different requirements.
hated
Daggers don't do much damage, because the huge damage that assassin skills put out. If you're swinging away for base damage at a target with full health you should be dead.
Overall to the OP, you really want to know why some assassin skills suck, have a long charge, or cost too damn much? Here's why...get ready for this...it's a doozy
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W/A
That's it, that's the only reason why. Warriors basically can grab any and all teleport skills they want and clean house, hence the need for long charges or high costs.
The reason AoD was changed to 10e? Other characters were using it BETTER than assassins.
The reason why we'll never see a shadow step non-elite that recharges under 45 seconds? Other classes will use it BETTER.
It drives me insane that anet didn't
A.) Put any good shadow steps in crit arts
or
B.) Give assassin skills the 4 or below failure clause.
GG anet, gg.
Overall to the OP, you really want to know why some assassin skills suck, have a long charge, or cost too damn much? Here's why...get ready for this...it's a doozy
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W/A
That's it, that's the only reason why. Warriors basically can grab any and all teleport skills they want and clean house, hence the need for long charges or high costs.
The reason AoD was changed to 10e? Other characters were using it BETTER than assassins.
The reason why we'll never see a shadow step non-elite that recharges under 45 seconds? Other classes will use it BETTER.
It drives me insane that anet didn't
A.) Put any good shadow steps in crit arts
or
B.) Give assassin skills the 4 or below failure clause.
GG anet, gg.
Mera Regila
Why would anet put any shadow steps in Critical Arts? In fact, what do shadowsteps have to do with Critical Arts AT ALL. GG hated, gg.
hated
....it has nothing to do with critical arts it has to do with the overusage of assassin skills by other classes.
Yes I know that shadow steps have nothing to do with crit arts that's why there's a number 2 in that line, try reading next time before you sound like an ass...whoops..too late.
Yes I know that shadow steps have nothing to do with crit arts that's why there's a number 2 in that line, try reading next time before you sound like an ass...whoops..too late.
stillarook
Maybe it can be a weak shadow step, which would be pretty cool.
Hella Good
Whine more. Join all the Eles in their manic depression. Seriously, now Sins suck. What's next? Poor Necros.... they sooooooo useless. I can see it coming...
ZystD
Response to energy being too much;
Expose Defenses 10
Mark of instability 10
Deaths charge 5 -- regen between two stances leaves energy at ~14 before this skill
Black lotus 10 -- restores energy to 20
assassin promise 5
twisting fangs 10
falling spider 5
horns of ox 5
60 energy combo (with 28 energy MAX on char) (assassin promise spiker thread)
-- Thats my combo, and would you believe that my energy is ALWAYS 28/28 after it? Crit hits and some VERY nice energy renewal skills for the assassin class. I think the class is fine the way it is, it'd be godly with more damage from base dagger damage.
Theres a reason why sins have 4 energy regen like casters do. Theres a reason why skills are set up the way they are, in combos, sin skills arent meant to be used alone, like other classes skills can be.
Expose Defenses 10
Mark of instability 10
Deaths charge 5 -- regen between two stances leaves energy at ~14 before this skill
Black lotus 10 -- restores energy to 20
assassin promise 5
twisting fangs 10
falling spider 5
horns of ox 5
60 energy combo (with 28 energy MAX on char) (assassin promise spiker thread)
-- Thats my combo, and would you believe that my energy is ALWAYS 28/28 after it? Crit hits and some VERY nice energy renewal skills for the assassin class. I think the class is fine the way it is, it'd be godly with more damage from base dagger damage.
Theres a reason why sins have 4 energy regen like casters do. Theres a reason why skills are set up the way they are, in combos, sin skills arent meant to be used alone, like other classes skills can be.
lagrand1
They are balanced as it is. They will go in and do massive damage and get out before being targeted. A one man pure kill spike would be unbalanced. If the opponent isn't paying attention, one spike can kill, but it would be unbalanced if it always kills.
As far as energy, try having mesmer secondary. Or use different skills.
As far as energy, try having mesmer secondary. Or use different skills.
prodigy ming
Quit blaming why most assassin suck soley on the player although the player is also responsible. If you want to see a list of why assassin is broken and NOT perfectly balanced, go read the thread "Whats wrong with assassin".
People keep saying go in and do "massive damage" then get out theory. The problem is, one spike usually doesn't kill off a single target, but no matter if he is dead or not you would have to get out due to lack of armor. Now you end up with the monk healing your target back to full health and you suffer a long down time and really accomplish nothing much in the end. In PvP almost everyone, espeically primary target like monks have some sort of evasion skill, one miss in your attack chain will end your combo immediately and back to waiting for everything to recharge. Sure you can bring skill that make your attacks cannot be blocked or evaded, but one sin combo is pretty energy heavy already, not alot of viable combo may allow you to have extra skill like this.
I agree that some shadow stepping skills (better ones) to be added to the critical strike line and make shadow stepping more unique to assassins.
People keep saying go in and do "massive damage" then get out theory. The problem is, one spike usually doesn't kill off a single target, but no matter if he is dead or not you would have to get out due to lack of armor. Now you end up with the monk healing your target back to full health and you suffer a long down time and really accomplish nothing much in the end. In PvP almost everyone, espeically primary target like monks have some sort of evasion skill, one miss in your attack chain will end your combo immediately and back to waiting for everything to recharge. Sure you can bring skill that make your attacks cannot be blocked or evaded, but one sin combo is pretty energy heavy already, not alot of viable combo may allow you to have extra skill like this.
I agree that some shadow stepping skills (better ones) to be added to the critical strike line and make shadow stepping more unique to assassins.
silent assasin dusk
there are energy skills u know ie golden lotus if it hits u gain energy and i have it on 10 energy which is enough for the next 2 atks and Aod doest have a limit on how long u can hold it so u can use it the tele in and when ur low stop it to tele out and i agree the incresing dagger dmg will make combos to powerfull and armour well u only loads of dmg if u dont know what ur doing a crap warrior would take a ton of dmg. ur complaints are unrealsitc
silent assasin dusk
oh and also prodidgy i normally get target dead in 1 trip jagged-wild-ox/blossom then golden lotus-wild-ox/blossom that kills my target then i get out and heal
ZenRgy
USE
PARAGRAPHS
They could use a buff, and I would read your post but the poor grammar tells me otherwise.
Also giving them 85 base AL is actually more than a warrior seeing as they are either 80 / 90 +X +Shield Armour (unless you use a hammer) or the 100 AL armour, but 13 str is stupid. I think 75 or 80 might be good. Or some better defense / shadow stepping.
PARAGRAPHS
They could use a buff, and I would read your post but the poor grammar tells me otherwise.
Also giving them 85 base AL is actually more than a warrior seeing as they are either 80 / 90 +X +Shield Armour (unless you use a hammer) or the 100 AL armour, but 13 str is stupid. I think 75 or 80 might be good. Or some better defense / shadow stepping.
Claymore
If the sin's sux so bad then Evil and the top guilds must be hacking cause theres no way they can put a build together like that! /end sarcasim
Guys its simple, spend the time, dial in your skill bar to reflect you personal tastes and go kill. The class is fine, if it was as bad as some say then nobody,NOBODY even Guilds like EVIL would be using it or able to dial it in so well. It comes down to how much time you want to spend on the char, if you want an invincible mindless sword swinging killing machine, build a Wammo.
Guys its simple, spend the time, dial in your skill bar to reflect you personal tastes and go kill. The class is fine, if it was as bad as some say then nobody,NOBODY even Guilds like EVIL would be using it or able to dial it in so well. It comes down to how much time you want to spend on the char, if you want an invincible mindless sword swinging killing machine, build a Wammo.
JR
Assassins are not underpowered. End of discussion.
Ure Maker
i got an assasin and well pretty much takes anything out, he has the 15k imperial armour so it is max, and well look at which skills do what and look at the energy, i have to admit i got a A/R mainly for whirling for that bit of defence but even at the i jump in take as much out of the target then get outa there fast, mainly caus an assasins job is to either
1. take out an opponent fast
2. condition causer
3. damage dealer ( in which i mean if there is a large group of enemies target the monk jump in do as much as possible and have another finish them, thats what team work is for, have a mesmer with you and you will take anything out, plus CALL your target when you go in, any good player will look at was has been called see its a monk and proceed to attack him/her)
learn to adapt and make worth of what you have
1. take out an opponent fast
2. condition causer
3. damage dealer ( in which i mean if there is a large group of enemies target the monk jump in do as much as possible and have another finish them, thats what team work is for, have a mesmer with you and you will take anything out, plus CALL your target when you go in, any good player will look at was has been called see its a monk and proceed to attack him/her)
learn to adapt and make worth of what you have
Pick Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relambrien
The OP posted again as I was typing this, so for any inconsistencies see the area labeled EDIT: at the end of the post.
Here are the points the OP made, in an easy-to-understand format. I will make my own responses to them AFTER I finish listing them out.
1. Assassins have very little self-healing compared to other professions.
2. Daggers have a low base damage, and should be buffed to 15-22 like a sword.
3. Assassins are meant to be played in a hit-and-run style, yet have few skills to support this. Thus, their armor level should be increased to compensate.
4. Assassins have very few blocking or evasion skills, which is a problem as they are melee characters.
5. Shadow Form is an awful skill in that it takes up an elite, and once it runs out you're dead.
The rest is pretty incomprehensible to me, might I suggest you look at Rule #9 in the Forum Rules, OP?
And in his second post...
6. The Energy cost for Assassin skills is too high, and combos aren't possible when you expend 35 energy to do one combo and get out.
Also, read above for the argument on dagger damage. Trust me, it's unnecessary. Sins do enough damage as it is. Besides, what's gonna hurt more? A 4-inch dagger wound or an 12-inch sword gash? I've edited Relambrien's post because I didn't need his opinion on the OP's statement (even though it is valid.
)
The assassin has many self-healing techniques, which is better than the Elementalist or the Mesmer's self-healing powers (I believe).
I agree that daggers look like they are low damage, but why should it be compared to a sword? I mean seriously, if someone flashed a dagger or a sword, I would be more afraid of a sword than a dagger. We are not talking about Ginsu knives here, right? Why not compare it to Axes or Hammers then? I mean an axe is as sharp as a sword, and a hammer uses two hands just like daggers do. Honestly, who has more damage potential? Two daggers doing Max damage + 20 damage from a skill or a sword doing Max damage + 20 damage from a skill? Daggers can hit twice (dual attack), while a sword can only hit once. So having daggers do the same base damage as a sword is unbalanced.
There are many hit-and-run tactics, or are you saying that Warriors have more hit and run skills that Assassins should be the same as warriors?
Agreed, they have few blocking or evading skills, that is why they have teleporting skills and should use hit-and-run tactics. Thus no tanking.
Shadow Form + running/teleporting + out of aggro = safe assassin. It is an emergency protection skill. I don't have this skill yet, so I don't know if you could use it when you have less than x life, then when it ends, does it heal you until you have that minimum life? I.E. when it ends, you lose all but 50 health. So if you have 3 health and then you use it, when it ends, do you still end with 50 health?
Try using Generous Was Tsungrai, drop it when Shadow Form ends. You get more life back (or use Reversal of Fortune as a cover enchantment).
If you believe that Assassins have no problems in PvE (because PvE is easy compared to PvP), then you should have no problems with the Assassin the way it is. Bosses in PvE are more powerful than any character in PvP. People are usually more intelligent than the computer's AI. So, if you can beat a less intelligent powerful foe, then you should be able to beat a less powerful slightly more intelligent player. In theory that is what should happen. But people complain about Touch Rangers, Elementalists are too under powered, Warriors can't take elemental damage anymore, etc. People should start adjusting their tactics and their skills to tackle any adjustments that ANet does or that people have decided to do (creating different builds), instead of staying what used to work and complain about it.
Naturally, I won't be opposed to any buffs regarding Assassins, but I don't see anything wrong with the way they are.
Here are the points the OP made, in an easy-to-understand format. I will make my own responses to them AFTER I finish listing them out.
1. Assassins have very little self-healing compared to other professions.
2. Daggers have a low base damage, and should be buffed to 15-22 like a sword.
3. Assassins are meant to be played in a hit-and-run style, yet have few skills to support this. Thus, their armor level should be increased to compensate.
4. Assassins have very few blocking or evasion skills, which is a problem as they are melee characters.
5. Shadow Form is an awful skill in that it takes up an elite, and once it runs out you're dead.
The rest is pretty incomprehensible to me, might I suggest you look at Rule #9 in the Forum Rules, OP?
And in his second post...
6. The Energy cost for Assassin skills is too high, and combos aren't possible when you expend 35 energy to do one combo and get out.
Also, read above for the argument on dagger damage. Trust me, it's unnecessary. Sins do enough damage as it is. Besides, what's gonna hurt more? A 4-inch dagger wound or an 12-inch sword gash? I've edited Relambrien's post because I didn't need his opinion on the OP's statement (even though it is valid.
)The assassin has many self-healing techniques, which is better than the Elementalist or the Mesmer's self-healing powers (I believe).
I agree that daggers look like they are low damage, but why should it be compared to a sword? I mean seriously, if someone flashed a dagger or a sword, I would be more afraid of a sword than a dagger. We are not talking about Ginsu knives here, right? Why not compare it to Axes or Hammers then? I mean an axe is as sharp as a sword, and a hammer uses two hands just like daggers do. Honestly, who has more damage potential? Two daggers doing Max damage + 20 damage from a skill or a sword doing Max damage + 20 damage from a skill? Daggers can hit twice (dual attack), while a sword can only hit once. So having daggers do the same base damage as a sword is unbalanced.
There are many hit-and-run tactics, or are you saying that Warriors have more hit and run skills that Assassins should be the same as warriors?
Agreed, they have few blocking or evading skills, that is why they have teleporting skills and should use hit-and-run tactics. Thus no tanking.
Shadow Form + running/teleporting + out of aggro = safe assassin. It is an emergency protection skill. I don't have this skill yet, so I don't know if you could use it when you have less than x life, then when it ends, does it heal you until you have that minimum life? I.E. when it ends, you lose all but 50 health. So if you have 3 health and then you use it, when it ends, do you still end with 50 health?
Try using Generous Was Tsungrai, drop it when Shadow Form ends. You get more life back (or use Reversal of Fortune as a cover enchantment).
If you believe that Assassins have no problems in PvE (because PvE is easy compared to PvP), then you should have no problems with the Assassin the way it is. Bosses in PvE are more powerful than any character in PvP. People are usually more intelligent than the computer's AI. So, if you can beat a less intelligent powerful foe, then you should be able to beat a less powerful slightly more intelligent player. In theory that is what should happen. But people complain about Touch Rangers, Elementalists are too under powered, Warriors can't take elemental damage anymore, etc. People should start adjusting their tactics and their skills to tackle any adjustments that ANet does or that people have decided to do (creating different builds), instead of staying what used to work and complain about it.
Naturally, I won't be opposed to any buffs regarding Assassins, but I don't see anything wrong with the way they are.
Relambrien
@Pick Me
Unless you were quoting for his arguments and not mine, you quoted the wrong part of the post, that's where I was listing out what he said. My responses were between number 6 and my comparison about 4-inch wounds and 12-inch gashes.
However, if you were quoting how I interpreted his post, you were completely correct.
EDIT: And yeah, Shadow Form takes you to x life, regardless of how much life you have. Thus, if you use it with three Health left, you will actually be healed.
@the OP
Please don't think that I'm trying to belittle you or anything with these posts; I just thought people would better understand what you meant if it was laid out differently. Thanks for understanding.
Unless you were quoting for his arguments and not mine, you quoted the wrong part of the post, that's where I was listing out what he said. My responses were between number 6 and my comparison about 4-inch wounds and 12-inch gashes.
However, if you were quoting how I interpreted his post, you were completely correct.
EDIT: And yeah, Shadow Form takes you to x life, regardless of how much life you have. Thus, if you use it with three Health left, you will actually be healed.
@the OP
Please don't think that I'm trying to belittle you or anything with these posts; I just thought people would better understand what you meant if it was laid out differently. Thanks for understanding.
pve-er
I think there should be a buff in Assassin but not really radical.
It will be nice to increase the damage of dagger but NOT as much as sword or a staff (15~22) because of dual attack does make Assassin has faster attack then warriror. but top at 17 is a bit low, maybe top the attack at 20 will be nice
Tank [in 4sec, you make 3 hit and deal 3x22=66]
Sinn [in 4 sec, you make 3.5 hit (4 if you have 16 on DM) 3.5x17=59
Even a caster can do better then that, where is the balance since mesmer or air ele can do same amount of damage without walking into the mob?
ANet need to work on the AI of random shadow steping, viper defense is a nice skill except it often teleport the Sinn into worse place in the battle. for example. when a Sinn attack the caster, a group of melee round you up at the back, viper defense triggered by their attack, you are forced into courner. viper defense teleport you further into the courner or teleport you at the same place because there is a wall behind you
this need to be work on
Shadow form is a nice skill. but the amount of health left and the recharge time is a bit harsh, cost 10EN is one thing but left only 44 at lvl 11 on SA) when it end is a bit hard for the Sinn and the monk. maybe double that amount of health left will be nice both for Sinn and Monk (if a Sinn run to far behind, monk can't take care of you and the teammates, if don't run too far, everyone will target a Sinn that can be kill by merely 1 hit/spell). 60 Sec recharge time, is way too long, Come on, in 30 second , most skill are recharge, you are healed by yourself or monk, Energy will reach the max even if a Sinn use EN+5 weapon. make it 45 to be fair and efficient.
rechrge time of other shedow step should be reduce by 5 second if "in and out " is the spirit of a Sinn
Shadow refuge should increase the duration to 6 second and the additional heal should NOT be "while attacking" so that people DON"T tank. as the name suggest, "Refuge" has anyone see refugee fighting in the front line? it should be use when someone are running or teleporting out of a battle. the Health regeneration will keep a Sinn alive under the effact of conditions and the healing at the end should be prepare a Sinn for spiking the next target. else the Refuge part is gone.
Death Charge is wierd too, why you need to attack an enemy when you need to be healed ? if you take damage, you run for healing and safty zone. not charge into the back of mob
these are a few on top of my head, I will add more if something come out of my mind
It will be nice to increase the damage of dagger but NOT as much as sword or a staff (15~22) because of dual attack does make Assassin has faster attack then warriror. but top at 17 is a bit low, maybe top the attack at 20 will be nice
Tank [in 4sec, you make 3 hit and deal 3x22=66]
Sinn [in 4 sec, you make 3.5 hit (4 if you have 16 on DM) 3.5x17=59
Even a caster can do better then that, where is the balance since mesmer or air ele can do same amount of damage without walking into the mob?
ANet need to work on the AI of random shadow steping, viper defense is a nice skill except it often teleport the Sinn into worse place in the battle. for example. when a Sinn attack the caster, a group of melee round you up at the back, viper defense triggered by their attack, you are forced into courner. viper defense teleport you further into the courner or teleport you at the same place because there is a wall behind you
Shadow form is a nice skill. but the amount of health left and the recharge time is a bit harsh, cost 10EN is one thing but left only 44 at lvl 11 on SA) when it end is a bit hard for the Sinn and the monk. maybe double that amount of health left will be nice both for Sinn and Monk (if a Sinn run to far behind, monk can't take care of you and the teammates, if don't run too far, everyone will target a Sinn that can be kill by merely 1 hit/spell). 60 Sec recharge time, is way too long, Come on, in 30 second , most skill are recharge, you are healed by yourself or monk, Energy will reach the max even if a Sinn use EN+5 weapon. make it 45 to be fair and efficient.
rechrge time of other shedow step should be reduce by 5 second if "in and out " is the spirit of a Sinn
Shadow refuge should increase the duration to 6 second and the additional heal should NOT be "while attacking" so that people DON"T tank. as the name suggest, "Refuge" has anyone see refugee fighting in the front line? it should be use when someone are running or teleporting out of a battle. the Health regeneration will keep a Sinn alive under the effact of conditions and the healing at the end should be prepare a Sinn for spiking the next target. else the Refuge part is gone.
Death Charge is wierd too, why you need to attack an enemy when you need to be healed ? if you take damage, you run for healing and safty zone. not charge into the back of mob
these are a few on top of my head, I will add more if something come out of my mind
Pick Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relambrien
@Pick Me
Unless you were quoting for his arguments and not mine, you quoted the wrong part of the post, that's where I was listing out what he said. My responses were between number 6 and my comparison about 4-inch wounds and 12-inch gashes.
However, if you were quoting how I interpreted his post, you were completely correct.
EDIT: And yeah, Shadow Form takes you to x life, regardless of how much life you have. Thus, if you use it with three Health left, you will actually be healed.
@the OP
Please don't think that I'm trying to belittle you or anything with these posts; I just thought people would better understand what you meant if it was laid out differently. Thanks for understanding. I just quoted your interpretation of the OP's initial post. That is why I didn't have your opinion (response to the OP's post) included.
Thanks for the info on Shadow Form.
Unless you were quoting for his arguments and not mine, you quoted the wrong part of the post, that's where I was listing out what he said. My responses were between number 6 and my comparison about 4-inch wounds and 12-inch gashes.
However, if you were quoting how I interpreted his post, you were completely correct.
EDIT: And yeah, Shadow Form takes you to x life, regardless of how much life you have. Thus, if you use it with three Health left, you will actually be healed.
@the OP
Please don't think that I'm trying to belittle you or anything with these posts; I just thought people would better understand what you meant if it was laid out differently. Thanks for understanding. I just quoted your interpretation of the OP's initial post. That is why I didn't have your opinion (response to the OP's post) included.
Thanks for the info on Shadow Form.
Amy Awien
Quote:
Originally Posted by silent assasin dusk
oh and also prodidgy i normally get target dead in 1 trip jagged-wild-ox/blossom then golden lotus-wild-ox/blossom that kills my target then i get out and heal
Interesting,
Jagged > bleeding ... DoT ??
Wild Strike > +18
Death Blossom > +35
Golden Lotus > +17
Wild > +18
Horns of the Ox > +27
18+35+17+18+27 = 115 plus another 70 basedamage from attacking ... that leaves about 300 HP on the target, so how does it kill them?
Jagged > bleeding ... DoT ??
Wild Strike > +18
Death Blossom > +35
Golden Lotus > +17
Wild > +18
Horns of the Ox > +27
18+35+17+18+27 = 115 plus another 70 basedamage from attacking ... that leaves about 300 HP on the target, so how does it kill them?
Xx Invictus xX
daggers are probably 7-17 because of the double striking
Assasins get screwed on combos though... if someone does shield bash to a warrior skill he still has other attacks...
if assassin hits into shield bash ... the recharge can make them useless for 30 seconds...
thats a big downer... if assassins have low armor and there attack chains .... get busted.... they are screwed...
SCREWED
edit: the guy above me has never played guild wars ... he feels that when it says +27 it only does +27 well it does +27 on top of your attack
the guy above me has never played an assassin... he doesnt know that a dual attack hits twice...
the guy above me...
hi
Assasins get screwed on combos though... if someone does shield bash to a warrior skill he still has other attacks...
if assassin hits into shield bash ... the recharge can make them useless for 30 seconds...
thats a big downer... if assassins have low armor and there attack chains .... get busted.... they are screwed...
SCREWED
edit: the guy above me has never played guild wars ... he feels that when it says +27 it only does +27 well it does +27 on top of your attack
the guy above me has never played an assassin... he doesnt know that a dual attack hits twice...
the guy above me...
hi
Silver_Fang
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx Invictus xX
edit: the guy above me has never played guild wars ... he feels that when it says +27 it only does +27 well it does +27 on top of your attack
the guy above me has never played an assassin... he doesnt know that a dual attack hits twice...
the guy above me...
hi The guy above me is too mean
The guy above me forgot to mention dagger do double strike as well so it is not 70 damage from dagger
The guy above me forgot to say he didnt factor in Critical strike.
the guy above me has never played an assassin... he doesnt know that a dual attack hits twice...
the guy above me...
hi The guy above me is too mean
The guy above me forgot to mention dagger do double strike as well so it is not 70 damage from dagger
The guy above me forgot to say he didnt factor in Critical strike.
Kate Bloodspirit
I disagree energy is bad on assassins. The high energy cost skills compensate with assassins having 4 pips of energy regen plus natural energy net gain from landing attacks (provided a good spec in Critical strikes), which nets you about 6-8 pips of regen while attacking? Not bad.
I think the reason AL is so low (and yet not so low compared to more critical classes like monks for example) is because of shadow steps. Being able to teleport in and get out easily, it'd wouldn't make sense that you're a highly armored tank, would it? you're already passing straight through and around back enemy's offense back into your defense.
Also I'd like to comment on the daggers damage. It's assassin native to have not only the net damage from the daggers, but the ability to put lots of pips of health degeneration on your enemy, conditions and buff/debuff hexes all over the place. Which is why I don't think daggers need a buff dued to the overall dps/effectiveness of the class.
I think the reason AL is so low (and yet not so low compared to more critical classes like monks for example) is because of shadow steps. Being able to teleport in and get out easily, it'd wouldn't make sense that you're a highly armored tank, would it? you're already passing straight through and around back enemy's offense back into your defense.
Also I'd like to comment on the daggers damage. It's assassin native to have not only the net damage from the daggers, but the ability to put lots of pips of health degeneration on your enemy, conditions and buff/debuff hexes all over the place. Which is why I don't think daggers need a buff dued to the overall dps/effectiveness of the class.
Karmaniac
For some reason whenever a discussion starts about assassins lacking people start gettting delusional and rant about how they totally PWN Grenth outta everything and that there's nothing wrong with assassin offense. If by surprise this is not the case they start arguing that the daggers base damage is too small. Yet many of the threads never address how broken shadowstepping is- the useful ones having rec of 45-60s.
Trick question: how are you supposed to hit and run without any decent hit-and-run skills? And how come the only useful self heal (and I'm using the word "useful" very loosely) encourages you to remain in combat for extended amount of time? To put it bluntly where's the hit and run part I keep hearing people talk about? This question was posed in the spirit that assassins contrary to popular belief have more than one elite skill.
Trick question: how are you supposed to hit and run without any decent hit-and-run skills? And how come the only useful self heal (and I'm using the word "useful" very loosely) encourages you to remain in combat for extended amount of time? To put it bluntly where's the hit and run part I keep hearing people talk about? This question was posed in the spirit that assassins contrary to popular belief have more than one elite skill.
Yanman.be
http://media.putfile.com/Yanman-Goes-Ra 'nuff said
prodigy ming
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate Bloodspirit
I think the reason AL is so low (and yet not so low compared to more critical classes like monks for example) is because of shadow steps. Being able to teleport in and get out easily, it'd wouldn't make sense that you're a highly armored tank, would it? you're already passing straight through and around back enemy's offense back into your defense.
The problem is anyone can use shadow stepping skill. Why does only sins have to compensate with low armor?
And one of the main argument is you CAN"T teleport in and out easily due to poor shadow stepping skills.
And one of the main argument is you CAN"T teleport in and out easily due to poor shadow stepping skills.
Pick Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmaniac
For some reason whenever a discussion starts about assassins lacking people start gettting delusional and rant about how they totally PWN Grenth outta everything and that there's nothing wrong with assassin offense. If by surprise this is not the case they start arguing that the daggers base damage is too small. Yet many of the threads never address how broken shadowstepping is- the useful ones having rec of 45-60s.
Trick question: how are you supposed to hit and run without any decent hit-and-run skills? And how come the only useful self heal (and I'm using the word "useful" very loosely) encourages you to remain in combat for extended amount of time? To put it bluntly where's the hit and run part I keep hearing people talk about? This question was posed in the spirit that assassins contrary to popular belief have more than one elite skill. Hit - and - run combo - do your 3 hit combo (or 4 or 5, whatever), use a running skill or teleport out (such as cast recall, run in attack, remove recall). Cast SR, do combo - by then the 4 seconds are up and your last hit happens at end of SR. Remove Recall and poof, you are back in safe area. Where is the encouragement to stay?
Trick question: how are you supposed to hit and run without any decent hit-and-run skills? And how come the only useful self heal (and I'm using the word "useful" very loosely) encourages you to remain in combat for extended amount of time? To put it bluntly where's the hit and run part I keep hearing people talk about? This question was posed in the spirit that assassins contrary to popular belief have more than one elite skill. Hit - and - run combo - do your 3 hit combo (or 4 or 5, whatever), use a running skill or teleport out (such as cast recall, run in attack, remove recall). Cast SR, do combo - by then the 4 seconds are up and your last hit happens at end of SR. Remove Recall and poof, you are back in safe area. Where is the encouragement to stay?
Am I A Good Sin
Ty for all the tips ppl. Btw I think sins r good as r ( but maybe a lil less downtime 5 seconds at most ) I just started thread because every1 complains constantly bout sins. When some1 tries to change em well this happens. SO STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT SINS! I figured I might get every1 to stop complaining if they complimented sins instead of complaining. Reverse phsycology there my friends. Btw the new name is roto master sin when I'm online.
Jonny_rottened
i believe the only part of the assassin that needs to be changed is the defensive aspect, ive been playing with my ranger twice as long as my assassin and the deaths are more twice as much for the assassin but the kills are about the same.
assassin 1250 deaths
ranger 400deaths
i know that a ranger isnt in the combat like an assassin but the ranger armor is lowered because of that.
just my opinion
assassin 1250 deaths
ranger 400deaths
i know that a ranger isnt in the combat like an assassin but the ranger armor is lowered because of that.
just my opinion
Kenji Akatsuki
the assassin doesnt need another heal skill, or even a longer one at that. the heal is just to lick the wounds u take after u kill your opponent. armor is bad yes but it just adds to the theme and makes the player stress out the whole in and out thing. i agree w/ whoever said its the player not the class, that is true. the assassin can have 100 armor and if its played stupidly itll still die
hated
Rangers also have the added protection of elemental defense in their armor. While assassins have straight out 70 armor, meaning a spell is going to hit for damn near full damage.
Also since shadow stepping doesn't break target yet, the spell still hits even after a sin steps away. Which by this fact alone should destroy the whole "hit and run" idea, when using teleports.
Again I state that assassin teleports should have an above 4 attribute failure clause. After all they are spells like any other, and aside from the huge spike ability of sins one of the big reasons sins were created. No one should be able to use them with as much effect as an assassin.
No don't bring up rangers using necro touch skills WAY better then necros, it's not a solid comparison in any way, shape, or form. Necro's weren't created for the ability to run up and touch someone, they were created to make massive armies of death and no one does it better. Rit's come close, but a necro will always have the edge.
Assassins were created to shadow step, but as it stands now if your really going for that just make a X/a. Any other class has a better way of using the steps, and can defend themselves better as well.
Also to the arguement of TOP (<--see big letters?) guilds using assassins to great effect...
1.) That's pvp with awesome group play, which not a lot of people have.
2.) Like Bahamut Kazier (sorry if I mispelled that) said, "if a master can kill with a spoon, that doesn't make a spoon a great weapon," or something like that.
Just because top guilds can use the sin to great effect doesn't mean they are balanced. It doesn't mean that everyone is an expert with a sin, and it doesn't mean that they should have to be either.
Final statement; if anet really wants to keep assassins chars so very vunrable and easy to kill, then give them better shadow steps that actually allow them to stay alive.
Thanks for reading
Also since shadow stepping doesn't break target yet, the spell still hits even after a sin steps away. Which by this fact alone should destroy the whole "hit and run" idea, when using teleports.
Again I state that assassin teleports should have an above 4 attribute failure clause. After all they are spells like any other, and aside from the huge spike ability of sins one of the big reasons sins were created. No one should be able to use them with as much effect as an assassin.
No don't bring up rangers using necro touch skills WAY better then necros, it's not a solid comparison in any way, shape, or form. Necro's weren't created for the ability to run up and touch someone, they were created to make massive armies of death and no one does it better. Rit's come close, but a necro will always have the edge.
Assassins were created to shadow step, but as it stands now if your really going for that just make a X/a. Any other class has a better way of using the steps, and can defend themselves better as well.
Also to the arguement of TOP (<--see big letters?) guilds using assassins to great effect...
1.) That's pvp with awesome group play, which not a lot of people have.
2.) Like Bahamut Kazier (sorry if I mispelled that) said, "if a master can kill with a spoon, that doesn't make a spoon a great weapon," or something like that.
Just because top guilds can use the sin to great effect doesn't mean they are balanced. It doesn't mean that everyone is an expert with a sin, and it doesn't mean that they should have to be either.
Final statement; if anet really wants to keep assassins chars so very vunrable and easy to kill, then give them better shadow steps that actually allow them to stay alive.
Thanks for reading