Hammer Warriors - A dying breed?
BigTru
Other than a few high-ranking guilds, I never see anyone running Hammer Warriors anymore. Are Axe Warriors really THAT good that running a differant type of warrior alongside it is inefficient?
Deathbow
Wait till i'm able to play. Gonna have THE hammer warrior by the time i reach 20. Just you wait and see. I'll start the revolution!! 
Omega X
My warrior used to run in Hammer mode, but a guild mate turned me on to Swords. After that, never looked back.
kvndoom
Hundred blades: Decent multiple-attack skill
Cyclone Axe: Decent multiple-attack skill
Crude Swing: One of the GAYEST, most USELESS skills in the game. Until that gets the "easily interrupted" tag removed from it, you won't see many hammer warriors.
Cyclone Axe: Decent multiple-attack skill
Crude Swing: One of the GAYEST, most USELESS skills in the game. Until that gets the "easily interrupted" tag removed from it, you won't see many hammer warriors.
Akhilleus
any sword warrior wasting their elite slot with hundred blades should be ashamed of themselves...
unless their running hundred with a weaken/barbs/mark of pain necro
battle-rage is a winner for hunter-warrior builds.
unless their running hundred with a weaken/barbs/mark of pain necro
battle-rage is a winner for hunter-warrior builds.
Lambentviper
I decided to play the pre-built W/E Abominable Snowman build just to see how fast i could get 1k faction.
So I went in CA and was paired with 2 R/Me and a R/E
Needless to say, we made it to 14 wins. Mostly Flawless.
Armor of Mist + Sprint is a good method to quickly catch up to a running target and snare with Dev. Hammer. Then Mighty Blow, then that other skill that isnt the elite. WHen they on ground, a simple frozen burst keeps them slowed while i regain energy for another AoM+Sprint combo.
One of the best pre-made builds on there right now.
So I went in CA and was paired with 2 R/Me and a R/E
Needless to say, we made it to 14 wins. Mostly Flawless.
Armor of Mist + Sprint is a good method to quickly catch up to a running target and snare with Dev. Hammer. Then Mighty Blow, then that other skill that isnt the elite. WHen they on ground, a simple frozen burst keeps them slowed while i regain energy for another AoM+Sprint combo.
One of the best pre-made builds on there right now.
BigTru
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvndoom
Hundred blades: Decent multiple-attack skill
Cyclone Axe: Decent multiple-attack skill
Crude Swing: One of the GAYEST, most USELESS skills in the game. Until that gets the "easily interrupted" tag removed from it, you won't see many hammer warriors. I'm mainly talking about PvP, where AoE attacks on Warriors aren't so important. I doubt Crude Swing is the source of all problems.
Cyclone Axe: Decent multiple-attack skill
Crude Swing: One of the GAYEST, most USELESS skills in the game. Until that gets the "easily interrupted" tag removed from it, you won't see many hammer warriors. I'm mainly talking about PvP, where AoE attacks on Warriors aren't so important. I doubt Crude Swing is the source of all problems.
kvndoom
Lack of shield (oh noes, everybody's gonna target my W/Mo 1st and I'm gonna die!!!)
Slowness of weapon (I am a warrior and I do teh most damage, I needz a fast weapon!)
Learning curve (in essence a hammer is a tool, not a weapon, and has to be treated as such)
PvP or PvE, it takes a lot more patience and finesse to be a good KD warrior than it does to swing a sword or shield. But give PvE players a good hammer skill, and they just might use them more and learn the subtleties and carry that over into PvP.
Slowness of weapon (I am a warrior and I do teh most damage, I needz a fast weapon!)
Learning curve (in essence a hammer is a tool, not a weapon, and has to be treated as such)
PvP or PvE, it takes a lot more patience and finesse to be a good KD warrior than it does to swing a sword or shield. But give PvE players a good hammer skill, and they just might use them more and learn the subtleties and carry that over into PvP.
audioaxes
crude swing is decent in 8v8 where the warrior is the last attacked but i do find it unneccessarily gimped as with other aspects of the hammer line
how about this as an suggestion to help out the hammer line:
keep the "easily interrupted" aspect of crude swing but make it a 4 addrenaline skill.
how about this as an suggestion to help out the hammer line:
keep the "easily interrupted" aspect of crude swing but make it a 4 addrenaline skill.
rii
I think another major contribution is the large amount of gale warriors around. While not as good as a full kd chain, you still kd them for the main axe spike, and with a couple of them the exhaustion is null. Hammer warriors still get used, but its more preference than necessary nowadays, when every warrior, not just hammer, can kd efficiently.
Lord Of Losers
as soon as i find a hammer, i was planning to make a hammer warrior. kind of getting tiring seeing only sword/axe warriors, not to mention i've been pllaying nothing but swords/axes on my warrior.
need that hammer to change the pace.
need that hammer to change the pace.
Kyle
I think its how the game itself steers you twords axe or swords. You get more axe and sword skills before you get 1 decent hammer skill. So people early on choose sword or axe and then never look back. Me myself having an axe warrior. With my ele he was fire cuz i got more fire skills than anything else. So once you get to a high level then you have skills unlocked to go into hammer. And people dont like hammer bcuz its slow and no shield.
im thinking about trying it once i get lvl 20 and most of the skills unlocked. cuz rite now at lvl 14 i still dont have much
im thinking about trying it once i get lvl 20 and most of the skills unlocked. cuz rite now at lvl 14 i still dont have much
Red Locust
What people are running nowadays is hammer R/W. They can keep tiger's fury up indefinitely and they can spam irresistible blow much more than a regular hammer warrior. They're even more resistant to air spikes.
If knockdowns are more important to you than damage, R/W is the way to go.
If knockdowns are more important to you than damage, R/W is the way to go.
Lt.Crumpet
iv always been hardkhor axe, but in my many griff runs lately, iv established a purpose. im salvaging all the half decent hammers i get and am assembling a whickid kewl hammer, and im prolly guna do a temp conversion to hammer to get the feel of it. but if you ask me, hammers are just tougher to get a hang of ( as has been said before ).
exodite
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvndoom
Hundred blades: Decent multiple-attack skill
Cyclone Axe: Decent multiple-attack skill
Crude Swing: One of the GAYEST, most USELESS skills in the game. Until that gets the "easily interrupted" tag removed from it, you won't see many hammer warriors. Crude swing is quite good when combined with Earthshaker as noone would be able to interupt you and you have almost recharged Earthshaker when you finish which i have found useful in ToPK
Cyclone Axe: Decent multiple-attack skill
Crude Swing: One of the GAYEST, most USELESS skills in the game. Until that gets the "easily interrupted" tag removed from it, you won't see many hammer warriors. Crude swing is quite good when combined with Earthshaker as noone would be able to interupt you and you have almost recharged Earthshaker when you finish which i have found useful in ToPK
shasso
I use a hammer and i love it.. Sure, sword and axe are faster but hammer deals more damage per hit and i love the knockdowns.
Im using it mostly in PVP 4 on 4 arenas. A two knockdown build with longer knockdown armor and berserker stance. Berserker gets adrenaline up fast, then first knowckdown, a +dmg hit, then another knockdown before target can do anything and another +dmg hit. If the target has no defence skill and goes down it hardly gets up again
Monks and eles sometimes take 100+ dmg (14 hammer, havent tried 16 yet) with irresistible blow. Most of the warriors i have taken 1 on 1 went down fast also if they didnt have a lot of healing skills and defences like bonetti and gladiators.
I like the big hits, even if they are slow because they are scary. They are great for running after a low hp target to finish it off and they make casters run away fast.
Axes are cool too, but i dont like sword.. they just poke, i rather crush skulls
Im using it mostly in PVP 4 on 4 arenas. A two knockdown build with longer knockdown armor and berserker stance. Berserker gets adrenaline up fast, then first knowckdown, a +dmg hit, then another knockdown before target can do anything and another +dmg hit. If the target has no defence skill and goes down it hardly gets up again
Monks and eles sometimes take 100+ dmg (14 hammer, havent tried 16 yet) with irresistible blow. Most of the warriors i have taken 1 on 1 went down fast also if they didnt have a lot of healing skills and defences like bonetti and gladiators.I like the big hits, even if they are slow because they are scary. They are great for running after a low hp target to finish it off and they make casters run away fast.
Axes are cool too, but i dont like sword.. they just poke, i rather crush skulls
kvndoom
Quote:
Originally Posted by exodite
Crude swing is quite good when combined with Earthshaker as noone would be able to interupt you and you have almost recharged Earthshaker when you finish which i have found useful in ToPK
My only experience with EarthShaker was in PvE, mainly soloing the Riverside Province mission or farming in Maguuma. I have been surrounded and had enemies behind me not get knocked down, and thus interrupt Crude Swing still. And to be forced to use an elite just to make a non-elite semi-functional is still retarded. Sure you could use a stance like Bonetti's, which would give you a 75% chance, but the fact remains that it's the only melee attack skill that practically [requires] another skill to make it work.
Hell Marauder
I too love playing hammer warrior. But what's the most un-desired weapon in GW? A hammer.
A hammer warrior simply have too many negatives stacked against him.
Sure, high damage is balanced by slow attack speed, and knock down is balanced by high adrenaline cost.
But then you don't have a shield's added defense, which isn't compensated by anything, not even a hammerer-only defensive stance.
So anet, please reduce adrenaline cost of hammerer's skills by 1, or at least let hammerers make critical hit everytime they hit a knock-down opponent. It's the only way you can save the hammerer's breed.
A hammer warrior simply have too many negatives stacked against him.
Sure, high damage is balanced by slow attack speed, and knock down is balanced by high adrenaline cost.
But then you don't have a shield's added defense, which isn't compensated by anything, not even a hammerer-only defensive stance.
So anet, please reduce adrenaline cost of hammerer's skills by 1, or at least let hammerers make critical hit everytime they hit a knock-down opponent. It's the only way you can save the hammerer's breed.
A_Muppet
I never use hammers. Why? I love how the female warrior's attack animation lags one second behind the attack. So when I use Irresitibal blow on soemone, the damage is done, then about a second later she does the attack animation. That is *very* irritating.
kvndoom
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Muppet
I never use hammers. Why? I love how the female warrior's attack animation lags one second behind the attack. So when I use Irresitibal blow on soemone, the damage is done, then about a second later she does the attack animation. That is *very* irritating.
Ugh, I had forgotten about that. I just LOVE seeing Etterwyn standing completely still, then a "47" appearing above the enemy's head, THEN she suddenly swings her weapon. Really easy to time attacks that way, eh?
lasteele
I have tried all of from sword,axe to hammer.Nothing beats watching your opponent keep picking himself up off the ground as you beat him into oblivion.As for the whole dying out thing far from it.The dye hards still carry their hammers with pride i know i do.Swords and axes are a trend for now,and like all trends they come and go.
Lambentviper
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvndoom
(in essence a hammer is a tool, not a weapon, and has to be treated as such)
A hammer is a tool, not a weapon, i agree with that.
But a warhammer is a weapon, not a tool.
Tuche.
Unfortunatly, the swarm of cliche Gale KD builds have undermined the Hammer Warrios role. Now players can KD an opponent without such a high adrenaline cost and can even do it with a sheild.
But the reliability of the axe's damage output is sub-par.
6-28 damage. Thats a big gap where someone could get off a heal or rez because you happened to hit weaker.
But when i run my hammer warrior i bring strong damage skills that keep my opponent on the ground, unable to use his skills.
Its as easy as Devastating hammer{E} Crushing blow(for the deep wound) Mighty blow, Heavy blow, Aftershock, and sometimes stoning for another kd and more damage.
No axe or sword warrior can accomplish this with as much finesse.
I know, because ive tested it.
But a warhammer is a weapon, not a tool.
Tuche.
Unfortunatly, the swarm of cliche Gale KD builds have undermined the Hammer Warrios role. Now players can KD an opponent without such a high adrenaline cost and can even do it with a sheild.
But the reliability of the axe's damage output is sub-par.
6-28 damage. Thats a big gap where someone could get off a heal or rez because you happened to hit weaker.
But when i run my hammer warrior i bring strong damage skills that keep my opponent on the ground, unable to use his skills.
Its as easy as Devastating hammer{E} Crushing blow(for the deep wound) Mighty blow, Heavy blow, Aftershock, and sometimes stoning for another kd and more damage.
No axe or sword warrior can accomplish this with as much finesse.
I know, because ive tested it.
LouAl
I have been using my W/Me interupter build for a while now. It dominates against monsters and also against other players in CA. The basic premise is to use Dwarven battle stance (which gets you about 12 seconds worth of interupting their every move) and a few mesmer interupts (like leech) and attacks like mighty/irresistable while the interupts are charging.
I hitting for big numbers on the attacks (100+ dmg) and then going right into an unstoppable interupting rampage, then right back into heavy attacks...nothing survives very long without someone else healing them.
I have been on many teams where after a fight the mesmer primaries are saying "who the @#$% pulled off all those interupts!? that was @#$%ing amazing!"
I tried both swords and axes awhile back but stuff just didn't die fast enough. I spent most of my time healing myself and not fighting.
BUT against a massive horde of monsters or ppl the hammer has nothing better to keep the fight down to less than 5 enemies
I hitting for big numbers on the attacks (100+ dmg) and then going right into an unstoppable interupting rampage, then right back into heavy attacks...nothing survives very long without someone else healing them.
I have been on many teams where after a fight the mesmer primaries are saying "who the @#$% pulled off all those interupts!? that was @#$%ing amazing!"
I tried both swords and axes awhile back but stuff just didn't die fast enough. I spent most of my time healing myself and not fighting.
BUT against a massive horde of monsters or ppl the hammer has nothing
better to keep the fight down to less than 5 enemies
sh4ft3d
Axes are mostly popular die to everyone's least favorite image of a Paladin weilding his gladius after casting mending on himself. Farming builds especially revolve around the axe, due to Cyclone Axe's uber pwnedness. Hammers need the option of a higher defensive grip (such as 'armor +10), OR (even better) a onehanded hammer with slightly reduced damage. That would rock. Knock down with a shield on.
Thailii Monkey
The Biggest Problem with hammers i find is adrenaline, attack slower and the decent attacks cost a bucket load and some are lose all adrenaline,
axe is faster lower adrenaline, and you can sometimes hit higher than hammers.
axe is faster lower adrenaline, and you can sometimes hit higher than hammers.
Lambentviper
for great justice! FTW! your adrenal problems should be fixed for the most part.
but the attack that lose all adrenaline are usually only used at the end of a skill combo. Heavy blow is the only 1 of my hammer attacks that lose all adrenaline. you can do about 1 full health bar with my set up a few posts above.
hammer skills require thinking and exploiting.
but the attack that lose all adrenaline are usually only used at the end of a skill combo. Heavy blow is the only 1 of my hammer attacks that lose all adrenaline. you can do about 1 full health bar with my set up a few posts above.
hammer skills require thinking and exploiting.
Senator Tom
hammers are elite guys what are you thinking?
LouAl
adrenaline is not an issue if you put a dwarven battle stance in the fight. you can't use other skills or it ends, so you end up with all your adrenal skills charged as soon as it is done (or before).
it is just like any of the energy dependent professions, you have to manage your adrenaline
it is just like any of the energy dependent professions, you have to manage your adrenaline
Griff Mon
I use my hammer with impunity. Between KD/AS, Armour of Earth, Endure Pain and Bonnetti's Defense you can stand there all day and have almost anything pound on you. It works great for swarms of melee. They can't hurt you and you beat on them, then unleash KD/AS. Worried about energy?, Bonnetti's recharges you fully in about a second as long as you are getting beat on. Then wait for the adreniline to come back and wham KD/AS.
It also helps to have those hammer gauntlets that keep a knocked down opponet down for an extra second. I use this as a meat shield for my squishies on Farming Runs and go solo in heavy melee areas. At higher levels you need someone backing you up with healing but it still works darn good.
It also helps to have those hammer gauntlets that keep a knocked down opponet down for an extra second. I use this as a meat shield for my squishies on Farming Runs and go solo in heavy melee areas. At higher levels you need someone backing you up with healing but it still works darn good.
nunix
So here's a thing: I see a lot of Hammer/Earth Magic combinations around. What OTHER profession/skill pairings are there? Obviously you can always slap on /Mo or /N or something, but I'm curious as whether or not there's more out there to accent Hammer as well as the EM knockdown stuff.
LouAl
I stand firm that the W/Me interupter is one of the most fun combos to play (not to metion devastating when ppl are expecting KD's or using the mesmer skills as support only). It is so much fun that I often play it instead of my hardcore interupting Me/E
lasteele
The monk smiting abilities gives good knock down skills wihich i prefer i like the ele knockdown but the healing is better any day.
The First Attacker
Hammers are too slow for what they are worth. Having a hammer means weaker defense and not that good skills. I think one in a guild is a good idea for knocking down though...
Raptox
Quote:
Originally Posted by The First Attacker
Hammers are too slow for what they are worth. Having a hammer means weaker defense and not that good skills. I think one in a guild is a good idea for knocking down though...
Balance is essential anyway. When I run my Hammer, my guildmate runs Axe.
Here's my story: I switched to Hammer at THK, kept the annoying bosses on the ground until they died, and never looked back.
Oh, right, then there was that time I bought the Bludgeoner for 3k. How much is that Razorstone going for these days?
Here's my story: I switched to Hammer at THK, kept the annoying bosses on the ground until they died, and never looked back.
Oh, right, then there was that time I bought the Bludgeoner for 3k. How much is that Razorstone going for these days?
Lambentviper
Quote:
Originally Posted by The First Attacker
Hammers are too slow for what they are worth. Having a hammer means weaker defense and not that good skills. I think one in a guild is a good idea for knocking down though...
Well then my hammer warrior would like to meet your little sword or axe buddy.
Hammer/Smite is also good because you can keep them knocked down while you have Balthazars Aura and Symbol of Wrath on. Constanst damage from 2 sources that they cant get away from. The major monk owner<----
Hammer/Smite is also good because you can keep them knocked down while you have Balthazars Aura and Symbol of Wrath on. Constanst damage from 2 sources that they cant get away from. The major monk owner<----
LouAl
too slow? not good enough?
hammer speed is what? 1.75 sec per hit?
axe speed is 1.33 sec per hit?
so that means the
hammer does between 10.8 and 20 dmg per second
axe does between 4.5 and 21.1 dmg per second
and for comparisson
sword does between 11.3 and 16.5 dmg per second
what this tells me is that swords are basically worthless (without using a skill). The min dmg is about the same as minimum on a hammer and the max isn't anywhere near the max for hammer or axe, but the damage will be in a smaller range more consistently.
I like the high max damage numbers and I like to see a small range in order to more consistently do large damage per second. The hammer and axe have approximately the same top end but the minimum dmg of an axe is half that of a hammer, so WITHOUT using skills the axe is an inferior choice.
On the subject of skills. Hammer and axe BOTH have some great skill sets, but I find that even without using KD's I kill enemies faster with the hammer simply because the damage is higher, more often (due to the smaller span of per second dmg).
Also, I find that using KD's and interupts keep the enemies from attacking me and through that I have higher health and find myself healing myself less.
Summary:
for one-three opponents
Axe = inconsistently high damage with longer fighting times and more healing
Hammer = consistently high damage with shorter fighting times and less healing
for more than three opponents
Axe = better large group attack skills able to take down many enemies simultaneous
Hammer = few decent group attack skills better to not fight large groups
overall
Axe is better for farming (hence the popularity)
Hammer is better for strategic play of smaller groups (many people don't like to have to think so hard...hence the unpopularity)
disclaimer:
my opinion only, many people fight well with both and in a wide variety of styles and areas, and agianst a variety of number of opponents
feel free to recheck math and correct if neccessary
hammer speed is what? 1.75 sec per hit?
axe speed is 1.33 sec per hit?
so that means the
hammer does between 10.8 and 20 dmg per second
axe does between 4.5 and 21.1 dmg per second
and for comparisson
sword does between 11.3 and 16.5 dmg per second
what this tells me is that swords are basically worthless (without using a skill). The min dmg is about the same as minimum on a hammer and the max isn't anywhere near the max for hammer or axe, but the damage will be in a smaller range more consistently.
I like the high max damage numbers and I like to see a small range in order to more consistently do large damage per second. The hammer and axe have approximately the same top end but the minimum dmg of an axe is half that of a hammer, so WITHOUT using skills the axe is an inferior choice.
On the subject of skills. Hammer and axe BOTH have some great skill sets, but I find that even without using KD's I kill enemies faster with the hammer simply because the damage is higher, more often (due to the smaller span of per second dmg).
Also, I find that using KD's and interupts keep the enemies from attacking me and through that I have higher health and find myself healing myself less.
Summary:
for one-three opponents
Axe = inconsistently high damage with longer fighting times and more healing
Hammer = consistently high damage with shorter fighting times and less healing
for more than three opponents
Axe = better large group attack skills able to take down many enemies simultaneous
Hammer = few decent group attack skills better to not fight large groups
overall
Axe is better for farming (hence the popularity)
Hammer is better for strategic play of smaller groups (many people don't like to have to think so hard...hence the unpopularity)
disclaimer:
my opinion only, many people fight well with both and in a wide variety of styles and areas, and agianst a variety of number of opponents
feel free to recheck math and correct if neccessary
Himura the Warrior
I'm a hammer warrior. I can kill a monk pretty fast with my KD/AS build. Forget a shield, just use endure pain when ur near death and if u have a smart monk, he/she will catch on and heal u if they can. I never do see many hammer warriors, but find a good one and they're devastating.
Fire Childe
Quote:
Hammer is better for strategic play of smaller groups (many people don't like to have to think so hard...hence the unpopularity) i do not see how you can arrive at this conclusion. that one is absolutely better than the other for these purposes.
one point that i think is understated in this thread is that many observations on hammer and axe builds assume that the warrior is in isolation. i.e. that the rest of the possible 7 other players on your team do not affect the viability of either hammer/axe/sword warriors in a fight.
mass knockdown/aftershock warriors are more viable in teams with earth eles running earthquake and aftershock. or other variants on knocking down and scoring free damage because of it. but this requires good timing and coordination. if pulled off right, the area of effect damage is brutal and it is not something you can pull off with any other weapon mastery. but the effectiveness of this type of build is limited to the coordination of the team that is running it, and the teambuild of the opponents they are facing.
very specific, single target knockdowns are more useful for a team that is built to spike large amounts of damage on a single target, which is still fairly popular. you dont really get anywhere these days in tombs or gvg or even in some high level pve areas if you cannot coordinate spike damage properly. hence the popularity of devastating hammer (without inflicting any additional damage itself) and the continuing use of hammer bash in pvp (and even pve, despite the fact that it breaks combos).
this thread also seems to assume that using 1 weapon mastery necessarily restricts them to using only skills from that mastery. when in fact you could just as easily run any standard tombs axe build and switch to hammer for a hammer bash whenever you want a surprise knockdown. without having to spend a single point in hammer mastery. there is nothing stopping a hammer warrior from switching to a sword to slap bleeding on a target after comboing them to near death.
it is also difficult to make flat out judgement calls on the viability of any weapon mastery without factoring in the entire spectrum of skill combinations that the rest of your teammates will use in order to augment what you are doing.
you cannot simply consider the viability of warrior builds without taking into consideration its place within an appropriate teambuild.
perhaps this is a cynical point to end on, but one possible explanation for the popularity of axes in both pvp and pve is the number of cookie cutter axe farming builds posted on sites like this as well as very similar looking teambuilds that use warriors for damage + shock or pets + IWAY.
these builds are easy to clone and dont really require a whole lot of thought. thats why so many people use them. im sure if the next fad of the month rolls around to teams with all warrior or ele secondaries running ridiculous amounts of knockdowns and the coordination to capitalise on them, from Shield of Judgement down to multiple shocks and several warriors with multiple, mass knockdowns a peice, hammers will suddenly come back in fashion.
all it takes is a good team to show you can consistantly take the hall of heroes with it. give it 2 weeks and everyone and their dog will be using it.
LouAl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Childe
i do not see how you can arrive at this conclusion. that one is absolutely better than the other for these purposes.
I wasn't meaning to say that one is always or absolutely better, only that it can be easier to do certain things with a certain type of weapon. For example, it is easier to kill multiple targets simultaneously with an axe than with a hammer, but it is easier to keep one target on the ground and interupted with a hammer. It is not an absolute, just easier.
Again, this is all my opinion...that doesn't make it true for everyone. Just me.
Again, this is all my opinion...that doesn't make it true for everyone. Just me.