Wild Strike, the assassin version is much different from the Warrior's Wild Blow sister version. In the W build, Wild Blow cannot be blocked or evaded. And that makes sense... you are trying end a stance. Well guess what? Stances block and evade.
Wild Strike offers the assassin no such comfort. Wild Strike is the biggest waste of time in the already defunct assassin profession. What good is an attempt to dislodge a stance when the very stance you are trying to dislodge can block or evade your skill?
I understand there are things like "Way of the Lotus." Or a handful of other combos, like Rigor Mortis that one can use. But basically, an assassin has to pack two skills to remove any stance, while a Warrior can get away with packing one.
I'm merely petitioning for fairness in this matter. I understand that the Warrior loses all adrenaline. Good for him. Punish the assassin if you have to, but for God's sake don't give him a skill that takes a way a stance when the stance negates any reason for packing such a skill in the first place.
Petition for Wild Strike...
stamenflicker
CHUIU
Not all stances evade/dodge attacks. A good number of them do other things and are still worth ending.
Seef II
Well, you have another crack at it in 4 seconds, which is a pretty low recharge time for an offhand attack.
Karmaniac
I agree with he OP. It certainly isn't that hot of an offhand and certainly wouldn't hurt if it was made unblockable/evadable. Considering it needs a lead attack to hit I find it hardly worth using. This even tho that the possible update will totally ruin my Oni farming.
/signed
/signed
stamenflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seef II
Well, you have another crack at it in 4 seconds, which is a pretty low recharge time for an offhand attack.
Yeah but you know how that goes if you've played an assassin. One block destroys an entire chain. Wild strike is an offhand, so you have to land a lead attack first... well with a 25% chance, what are the odds of landing 2 in a row?
Besides, I've never seen anything close to a 25% hit ratio with a ranger using a stance. He will not evade 75% of the time, he'll evade my next 20 straight attempts.
If Wild Strike was a lead attack with a short recharge, then you might have me convinced it's worth a damn. But as an offhand, it is ridiculously stupid to try to end something like Lightning Reflexes or Evade.
Besides, I've never seen anything close to a 25% hit ratio with a ranger using a stance. He will not evade 75% of the time, he'll evade my next 20 straight attempts.
If Wild Strike was a lead attack with a short recharge, then you might have me convinced it's worth a damn. But as an offhand, it is ridiculously stupid to try to end something like Lightning Reflexes or Evade.
Nevin
I use Jagged Strike + Wild Strike for spamming powerful dual attacks.
stamenflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevin
I use Jagged Strike + Wild Strike for spamming powerful dual attacks.
Come fight my ranger 
stamenflicker
One possible fix would be lowering the recharge on Way of the Lotus, or moving it from Shadow Arts to no attribute.
45 sec recharge on a skill that allows you to hit the next five times is silly. Especially since you are fooking up your attack chain by having to add it.
45 sec recharge on a skill that allows you to hit the next five times is silly. Especially since you are fooking up your attack chain by having to add it.
Hockster
Any assassin going after a warrior or ranger is pretty much retarded. There's a reason assassins have skills that allow them to zip to the back line and create havoc with the monks, ele's and other casters.
Shield Bash on a lead attack makes for a very gimped assassin.
Shield Bash on a lead attack makes for a very gimped assassin.
Shantel Span
You'd be suprised the sheer amount of Mo/R's using plenty of healing spells while Evading every dang thing I throw at them.
Paperfly
...er, I assume we're talking about Way of the Fox, not Way of the Lotus? 
I wrote up an interesting and informative post... Then Wiki told me that Shiro's Meditation of the Reaper is not, in fact, a stance as is commonly believed - so there goes Wild Strike's last major use!
To be honest, though, the problem with Wild Strike is actually the same as that of pretty much every off-hand attack on the list - they all suck! The only ones that see any consistent sort of play are the ones that don't require a lead attack, like Golden Phoenix Strike or Falling Spider.
I wrote up an interesting and informative post... Then Wiki told me that Shiro's Meditation of the Reaper is not, in fact, a stance as is commonly believed - so there goes Wild Strike's last major use!
To be honest, though, the problem with Wild Strike is actually the same as that of pretty much every off-hand attack on the list - they all suck! The only ones that see any consistent sort of play are the ones that don't require a lead attack, like Golden Phoenix Strike or Falling Spider.
Kit Engel
Wild Strike can end annoying things like... Serpent's Quickness, Sprint, Rush, Dark Escape, Mantras, Physical/Elemental Resistance... in other words, aside from the speed increasers, things that you don't generally run into very much.
The problem is that making it unable to be blocked or evaded cuts into Fox Fang's effects, then making that redundant...
Still, I agree that it could be more useful, especially seeing as the upcoming Paragons have Wild Throw, which works similarly to Wild Blow.
The problem is that making it unable to be blocked or evaded cuts into Fox Fang's effects, then making that redundant...
Still, I agree that it could be more useful, especially seeing as the upcoming Paragons have Wild Throw, which works similarly to Wild Blow.
CHUIU
Thats the #3 reason why im making a Paragon first.
Tark Alkerk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperfly
I wrote up an interesting and informative post... Then Wiki told me that Shiro's Meditation of the Reaper is not, in fact, a stance as is commonly believed - so there goes Wild Strike's last major use!
To be honest, though, the problem with Wild Strike is actually the same as that of pretty much every off-hand attack on the list - they all suck! The only ones that see any consistent sort of play are the ones that don't require a lead attack, like Golden Phoenix Strike or Falling Spider. no the point of taking stance ending sklls is that battle scars in a stance
which means you can do more damage to shiro.
so wild still has a use.
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tark Alkerk
which means you can do more damage to shiro.
so wild still has a use.
The Wild Blow warriors use, gimps them totally, it takes all their adrenaline, which isnt so bad in a no adrenaline build. However, the Warrior's most powerful attacks are Adrenaline based. Assassins that use Wild Strike however, aren;t hurt too bad when it misses, they can try again in 4 seconds, and it only costs 5 energy. If you use Wild Strike enough, you can hit through the stance. Since the Wild Blow used by warriors hurts most of their builds, the assassin version and it are both balanced, if not roughly so.
Lordhelmos
Theres a ton of things wrong with assassins as it is. This is just one of the few. Nightfall may in fact deal a punishing blow to the sin population.
CHUIU
I seriously doubt a paragon or dervish will replace the best ganker in the game.
Shantel Span
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera Regila
Assassins that use Wild Strike however, aren;t hurt too bad when it misses, they can try again in 4 seconds, and it only costs 5 energy.
Point of Clarification - Wild Strike is an offhand attack and requires a lead attack. You must connect with your Lead attack before you can even attempt a Wild Strike again. Against your average ranger that's .25*.25...a 6.25% chance of success.
bigwig
doesn't wild strike also do damage? and have a very small recharge/energy cost?
Curse You
You seem to be overlooking a good part of the situation.
Wild Blow uses 5 energy, it has a 4 second recharge, it deals extra damage. It doesn't seem all that bad to me, just use Way of the Fox and you can take down someone trying to use a stance on you.
Wild Blow uses 5 energy, it has a 4 second recharge, it deals extra damage. It doesn't seem all that bad to me, just use Way of the Fox and you can take down someone trying to use a stance on you.
frojack
Well your missing the fact that Wild Blow removes all adrenaline, which can be punishing for a warrior. Wild Strike offers no such 'gimp' mechanism.
majoho
Quote:
Originally Posted by stamenflicker
Wild Strike, the assassin version is much different from the Warrior's Wild Blow sister version.
Except for the Wild in the name I don't see much "sister version" about it!
Lets see:
Wild Blow: Lose all Adrenaline. If it hits, this attack will be a critical hit. If Wild Blow hits, any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "Blocked" or "Evaded"
Wild Strike: Off-hand attack. Must follow a lead attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18 damage and target foe loses 1 Stance.
So the ONE thing they have in common is that they both make the target lose one stance, why even compare them?
Lets see:
Wild Blow: Lose all Adrenaline. If it hits, this attack will be a critical hit. If Wild Blow hits, any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "Blocked" or "Evaded"
Wild Strike: Off-hand attack. Must follow a lead attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18 damage and target foe loses 1 Stance.
So the ONE thing they have in common is that they both make the target lose one stance, why even compare them?
dawnrain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shantel Span
Point of Clarification - Wild Strike is an offhand attack and requires a lead attack. You must connect with your Lead attack before you can even attempt a Wild Strike again. Against your average ranger that's .25*.25...a 6.25% chance of success.
The above clarification is misleading. You hit your target with a lead attack and you miss with your off-hand, your target is still "marked" with a lead attack. And your target is still subject to attacks requiring a lead attack. "Marks" last for 20 secs, so you can attempt another wild strike as soon as it recharges.
Missing an off-hand or dual does not remove any "marks" on your target.
Missing an off-hand or dual does not remove any "marks" on your target.
Aera
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoho
Wild Strike: Off-hand attack. Must follow a lead attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18 damage and target foe loses 1 Stance.
Didn't know you could have 2 stances at the same time?
Anyways, you can use wildblow with daggers, so why don't ya just go A/W with wildblow
Anyways, you can use wildblow with daggers, so why don't ya just go A/W with wildblow
Vermilion
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoho
So the ONE thing they have in common is that they both make the target lose one stance, why even compare them?
There aren't many skills that remove stances. (I thought wild blow and strike were it)
And for the record, Strike does +damage and blow is a critical hit. not the same thing exactly.
And for the record, Strike does +damage and blow is a critical hit. not the same thing exactly.
stamenflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoho
Except for the Wild in the name I don't see much "sister version" about it!
Lets see:
Wild Blow: Lose all Adrenaline. If it hits, this attack will be a critical hit. If Wild Blow hits, any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "Blocked" or "Evaded"
Wild Strike: Off-hand attack. Must follow a lead attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18 damage and target foe loses 1 Stance.
So the ONE thing they have in common is that they both make the target lose one stance, why even compare them? They serve the same purpose, and the Paragon is going to get one too. That they all serve to remove stances, that makes them in the same family. Sorry you don't see it that way, but when you are building your skill bar, you look to what it is that these skills do for your overall build in very much the same way.
I stated in the OP that I am not against having the assassin receive a penalty similar to the Warrior's loss of adrenaline. As long as its not blind, I'd take about anything... KD, higher E cost, longer recharge, whatever...
Lets see:
Wild Blow: Lose all Adrenaline. If it hits, this attack will be a critical hit. If Wild Blow hits, any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "Blocked" or "Evaded"
Wild Strike: Off-hand attack. Must follow a lead attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18 damage and target foe loses 1 Stance.
So the ONE thing they have in common is that they both make the target lose one stance, why even compare them? They serve the same purpose, and the Paragon is going to get one too. That they all serve to remove stances, that makes them in the same family. Sorry you don't see it that way, but when you are building your skill bar, you look to what it is that these skills do for your overall build in very much the same way.
I stated in the OP that I am not against having the assassin receive a penalty similar to the Warrior's loss of adrenaline. As long as its not blind, I'd take about anything... KD, higher E cost, longer recharge, whatever...
Yichi
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHUIU
I seriously doubt a paragon or dervish will replace the best ganker in the game.
i wouldnt. the dervishes in their forms spamming enchants then coping them off for even more dmg while NOT taking any dmg = much better ganker than a sin. and the paragon is COMPLETELY overpowered if you add in ranger as primary using expertise.
stamenflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockster
Any assassin going after a warrior or ranger is pretty much retarded. There's a reason assassins have skills that allow them to zip to the back line and create havoc with the monks, ele's and other casters.
Shield Bash on a lead attack makes for a very gimped assassin. You do realize that "zipping around" is only one assassin build, pretty much relying on one attribute skill set to be remotely useful to a team in combat? For that matter, Assassin is probably a better secondary skill in PVP.
I agree that this is the most effective use of an assassin in PVP, but it sure makes PVE pretty dang difficult. To create a profession that is only good for one purpose seems silly to me. Even mesmers have three purposes in combat-- they can Ene Drain, degen, or interrupt.
As you mentioned, it already too easy to stop an assassin's chain attacks with something like shield block... there is also throw dirt, and ele's and monks have a plethora of evasion / block / even a blind skills to chose from. Once one attack in the chain doesn't land, you pretty much have to run and wait on energy and recharges.
I don't think opening up Wild Strike is that big of a deal, seeing how gimped they already are... And an assassin on a ranger, may as well sit down and have a cup of tea if he's packed Escape and Lightning Reflexes, which I almost always do.
Even Warrior's Cunning has a time limit on it, as opposed to a set number of attacks. And sticking Way of the Lotus in Shadow Arts makes a Dagger/Deadly Arts or a Crit strikes/Dagger build all but impossible to play.
Shield Bash on a lead attack makes for a very gimped assassin. You do realize that "zipping around" is only one assassin build, pretty much relying on one attribute skill set to be remotely useful to a team in combat? For that matter, Assassin is probably a better secondary skill in PVP.
I agree that this is the most effective use of an assassin in PVP, but it sure makes PVE pretty dang difficult. To create a profession that is only good for one purpose seems silly to me. Even mesmers have three purposes in combat-- they can Ene Drain, degen, or interrupt.
As you mentioned, it already too easy to stop an assassin's chain attacks with something like shield block... there is also throw dirt, and ele's and monks have a plethora of evasion / block / even a blind skills to chose from. Once one attack in the chain doesn't land, you pretty much have to run and wait on energy and recharges.
I don't think opening up Wild Strike is that big of a deal, seeing how gimped they already are... And an assassin on a ranger, may as well sit down and have a cup of tea if he's packed Escape and Lightning Reflexes, which I almost always do.
Even Warrior's Cunning has a time limit on it, as opposed to a set number of attacks. And sticking Way of the Lotus in Shadow Arts makes a Dagger/Deadly Arts or a Crit strikes/Dagger build all but impossible to play.
majoho
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilion
There aren't many skills that remove stances. (I thought wild blow and strike were it)
Yes, I realize that I guess that while they aren't that similar they are the only ones that removes a stance.
Doesn't the assassin have a stance "stealer" skill as well btw.
Doesn't the assassin have a stance "stealer" skill as well btw.
stamenflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoho
Yes, I realize that I guess that while they aren't that similar they are the only ones that removes a stance.
Doesn't the assassin have a stance "stealer" skill as well btw.
You're right, I take it back. They get Expose Defenses... energy cost is 10 and for 10 seconds target foe cannot block or evade. So it costs twice what the Warrior skill does, and the Warrior doesn't really depend on energy to attack. So it's better than I thought at first, but less than ideal since the assassin is sacrificing nearly half his energy to do it, and he unlike the Warrior, cannot rely on adreanline or even strength/weapon additions to inflict significant damage.
Doesn't the assassin have a stance "stealer" skill as well btw.
You're right, I take it back. They get Expose Defenses... energy cost is 10 and for 10 seconds target foe cannot block or evade. So it costs twice what the Warrior skill does, and the Warrior doesn't really depend on energy to attack. So it's better than I thought at first, but less than ideal since the assassin is sacrificing nearly half his energy to do it, and he unlike the Warrior, cannot rely on adreanline or even strength/weapon additions to inflict significant damage.
Epinephrine
I think that the loss of all adrenaline on the warrior skill is a real killer for most warrior builds...
I do agree that Wild strike is a bit weak; I'd like to see it become more spammable perhaps, maybe moved to be a lead attack.
Lead attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18...21 damage and target foe loses 1 Stance.
Hmm, looks much better that way. In the same way that Wild Strike has a nasty effect for warriors (disabling their skill chain by eliminating all adrenaline) it could be bumped up in effect but limit the effectiveness of future attacks for example, by costing energy
Lead Attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18...21 damage and target foe loses 1 Stance; if it misses, Wild Strike recharges instantly.
There, that way you can spend a bunch of your precious energy on it very rapidly, essentially doing what a Wild Blow does - limiting your future attacks. It costs an average of 20 energy to end a 75% blocking stance, which is a pretty big delay in throwing a major chain; that energy recovers in 15 seconds, faster with critical strikes helping bring it up; a warrior may well be using 6+ adrenaline skills and thus recharges them in lets say 7 or so swings, so maybe 10 seconds. So the assassin is delayed more when it comes to making a full chain, but has access to skills still if he has the energy for them; thus you could follow with an energy gaining attack. Still, maybe it needs a little bonus to bring it closer to where the warrior is.
Lead Attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18...21 damage. If the foe struck was using a stance that stance is ended and you gain 5 energy; if it misses, Wild Strike recharges instantly.
Ok, now it's only a 15 loss on average, cutting it to about 11 seconds, similar to the 10 it takes a warrior to get a good adrenaline charge back, with the possibility of losing more, or of hitting on the first swing, getting a free attack essentially and starting your chain.
I do agree that Wild strike is a bit weak; I'd like to see it become more spammable perhaps, maybe moved to be a lead attack.
Lead attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18...21 damage and target foe loses 1 Stance.
Hmm, looks much better that way. In the same way that Wild Strike has a nasty effect for warriors (disabling their skill chain by eliminating all adrenaline) it could be bumped up in effect but limit the effectiveness of future attacks for example, by costing energy
Lead Attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18...21 damage and target foe loses 1 Stance; if it misses, Wild Strike recharges instantly.
There, that way you can spend a bunch of your precious energy on it very rapidly, essentially doing what a Wild Blow does - limiting your future attacks. It costs an average of 20 energy to end a 75% blocking stance, which is a pretty big delay in throwing a major chain; that energy recovers in 15 seconds, faster with critical strikes helping bring it up; a warrior may well be using 6+ adrenaline skills and thus recharges them in lets say 7 or so swings, so maybe 10 seconds. So the assassin is delayed more when it comes to making a full chain, but has access to skills still if he has the energy for them; thus you could follow with an energy gaining attack. Still, maybe it needs a little bonus to bring it closer to where the warrior is.
Lead Attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +8...18...21 damage. If the foe struck was using a stance that stance is ended and you gain 5 energy; if it misses, Wild Strike recharges instantly.
Ok, now it's only a 15 loss on average, cutting it to about 11 seconds, similar to the 10 it takes a warrior to get a good adrenaline charge back, with the possibility of losing more, or of hitting on the first swing, getting a free attack essentially and starting your chain.
Lambentviper
And really, not all stances are evade/block. Ending Practiced Stance on a seeking or choking ranger is very effective and keeps pressure off of your casters and monks.
Blinding Power + Unseen Fury is very effective as well
Blinding Power + Unseen Fury is very effective as well
Apocrypha
Using 2 skills to stop a stance? What if you don't run into one, 2 wasted skills (1, because blind is useful) plus the fact that I have to go out of my attributes to do so, I think not.
Now let's look at fox fangs shall we, it will hit through the blocked or evade and has a 8 second recharge instead. However, it won't remove a stance. Methinks that just making it hit through block and evade with no side effects is bad, make it a 10 or 12 second recharge and possibly 10 energy too. However, now it's a lot more useful and doesn't get into my build because I can't spare that energy. Side effects... perhaps no chance of citical?
Wild blow also has a bonus, it's a guarunteed critical, for hammers that's a LOT of damage, use it for your first hit and they will be half dead before the monks realize it. Lose all adrenaline doesn't matter for a first strike and the bonus of a critical hit is pretty sweet. (especially for an assassin who can make it cost only 1 energy and recharge critical defenses with it)
Wild Strike doesn't have a critical hit, so maybe it can stay at 5 energy, stay in my build and be semi useful. Most of the stances I want to stop are the evade/block stances, otherwise I don't even care because they're dead before it's useful.
Quote:
Now let's look at fox fangs shall we, it will hit through the blocked or evade and has a 8 second recharge instead. However, it won't remove a stance. Methinks that just making it hit through block and evade with no side effects is bad, make it a 10 or 12 second recharge and possibly 10 energy too. However, now it's a lot more useful and doesn't get into my build because I can't spare that energy. Side effects... perhaps no chance of citical?
Wild blow also has a bonus, it's a guarunteed critical, for hammers that's a LOT of damage, use it for your first hit and they will be half dead before the monks realize it. Lose all adrenaline doesn't matter for a first strike and the bonus of a critical hit is pretty sweet. (especially for an assassin who can make it cost only 1 energy and recharge critical defenses with it)
Wild Strike doesn't have a critical hit, so maybe it can stay at 5 energy, stay in my build and be semi useful. Most of the stances I want to stop are the evade/block stances, otherwise I don't even care because they're dead before it's useful.
Quote:
Zuranthium
The problem with assassins (I still love 'em, though) is that the entire attack chain is ruined with a missed attack. It shouldn't be like that. If you simply perform an attack skill it should open up the next level in your chain.
Zuranthium
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambentviper
And really, not all stances are evade/block. Ending Practiced Stance on a seeking or choking ranger is very effective and keeps pressure off of your casters and monks.
Blinding Power + Unseen Fury is very effective as well Yes, but it takes up 2 skill slots AND pretty much requires that you use Palm Strike as your Elite because Blinding Powder has to follow a successful offhand attack and Palm Strike is the only one that will never miss.
Blinding Power + Unseen Fury is very effective as well Yes, but it takes up 2 skill slots AND pretty much requires that you use Palm Strike as your Elite because Blinding Powder has to follow a successful offhand attack and Palm Strike is the only one that will never miss.
Terra Xin
you're missing the point that blinding + unseen fury are two combined skills that causes "blindness" and anti evade and block "over a duration". Wild blow is one skill, and it only does one thing... once.
Zuranthium
The effect of Unseen Fury + Blinding Powder is not as good as what Wild Blow + another skill can do. Plus, as I already stated, Blinding Powder relies on another skill to even work. It's simply not good enough. If Blinding Powder was changed to a touch spell with no requirements THEN it would be a nice combination.
Imagine Shock only being able to knock down people who are casting spells. Nobody would use it. Just as nobody should use blinding powder for serious play in its current state.
Imagine Shock only being able to knock down people who are casting spells. Nobody would use it. Just as nobody should use blinding powder for serious play in its current state.
Arcador
Wild strike is best used with the skill that gives you next 5 hits unblockable and nonevadable. Otherwise it is only good vs run stances and similar other types. Vs certain builds can deliver quite a punch!