EoE Nerfed

If they don't want grawl farming, change it so that EoE kill = no item.
If they don't want easy urgoz kill, change urgoz to a different creature.
If they don't want AB abuse, make it so that EoE can't take effect when the timer is there.
If they don't want same team griefing, make it so that sac death don't count to EoE.

For the love of god, stop doing bandaid fix that screws up skills for perfectly legit usage.

But that would require some thought and effort... so instead we have now a broken skill.

I'm also enjoying reading all the PvE is easy comments. It's easy because the AI can't be upped as players have nothing but broken skills to use against them.
Skills are balanced for same level (20) players that can kite and run around playing tag. The AI is higher level, can hit for 400 damage and is set for a "challenge" by throwing numbers against the players. Unbalanced.
I think it's time we start "balancing" skills for battle against mobs instead of other players, that way, next time I cast a zero damage AoE the enemy mobs have enough smarts to see it isn't hurting them and wont run like a baby.

If it's true that Anet listens to both side without bias, let's see it. Stop breaking skills in PvE and start making the game better with improved AI, better skills and better usage.

I'd like to see all these viewpoints from the PvE (PvM) side, because I don't remember actually seeing anyone complaining about EoE before in PvE. There have been PvP complaints sure, understandably so, but I've not seen these mysterious PvE complaint threads... someone got some links to those threads?

I think anet needs to look at some other classes and their skills.
Despite anets claim PvP didn't determine the nerf on EoE I'm sorry to say to me its apparent it did.
Have we seen Ritualist spirits attack range nerfed yet? No. They have greater range than a longbow....this is the weapon that should have the longest attack range of any attack...therefore making rangers needed.
Have you seen 55 monks nerfed?
Do warriors get fatigue? How long can you realistically swing a 3-9 lb. sword in combat? Not long.
Even a rangers only attack speed increased skills are on an attribute that they really can't afford to put points in to be able to do moderate damage.
Yes theres other classes and skills that need to be nerfed. EoE is over a year old and has been nerfed before...yet now theres another problem with it? Well it's mostly useless now..hey anet...why don't you just delete rangers alltogether because it seems apparent no one at anet plays one to begin with and somehow maybe one (by an act of god) might actucally manage to kill one of your characters.

i bet someone, some where was complaining about how easy urgoz was with EoE and made a post as to how they can "fix" it... but still we can just adept right? just like the warrior "fix" and the absorption "fix" oh well gg anet, making a situationally almost useless skill into now somthing obsolete, just like half the ranger skills out there

Seriously, some of these comments make me sad. We have an Anet Dev in this very topic repeating the same message for three times yet people still go out of the way to insult the other side: EoE was nerfed due to a number of reasons, not just AB griefing, not just edgebombing in halls, not just Urgoz farming...

Now, let's get to business:

1. Stop equalizing Aspenwood with pvp. Up until today it was a PvE zone only accessable with PvE characters and it only had PvE rewards. Though you are fighting humans you can make a strong case it isn't PvP in the common sense off the word. Heck, It seems as though most pvp-ers don't consider it to be a form of pvp. (if you don't take me word for it then head over to Guild-hall.net).
In any case: equilizing Aspenwood with pvp isn't as easy as most seem to think.

2. There wasn't a single PvP-er whining about EoE. Afaik, all the whining was related to Aspenwood griefing. Stating that PvP-ers rather whine then think about countering a skill is not only demeaning, generalizing and down right insulting, it is also completely false.

3. The only problem EoE caused in PvP was in HoH itself and even there noone really cared that much. I have never seen a single topic whining about this particular thing.

Most PvP-ers will thank you though for the great advice about killing the spirit, shutting down the ranger or retreating outside of the range. None of us have ever thought about something as obvious as that.
Still, since most of you here are obviously smarter then all the PvPers then please explain us how you will kill an EoE that is cast as far away from the actual battle as possible (whilst still being in range off the fight), that is guarded by traps while your team is busy either tanking two teams or interrupting enemy ghostlies and shutting down enemy interrupters in the 3 second time frame you have in between the Edge being put up and the bomb hitting.

The problem is not it's use in most combats. That is why there was NO whining about it. The problem was it's use in HoH in which you were simply unable to properly defend yourself against it. Still, there was NO whining about this imbalance...

3. The problems in PvE with EoE were abundant. It makes Vizunah square a joke, it makes farming a joke, it allows you to kill off Urgoz without even hitting him. What do you mean imbalanced?

Off course there was no whining from the PvE side... Heck, if there was a skill that would instantly kill all monsters in the area quite a lot of PvE-ers wouldn't be complaining either. Does that mean it's balanced? No, sorry, it doesnt...

The thing is that in PvE imbalances are generally seen as 'cool' and 'handy' even when they destroy the strategic depth PvE has to offer and completely distort the way this game was designed to be played. The old AoE's were overpowered... The old EoE was overpowered. There is no denying that.

4. If you think EoE is useless in PvE perhaps you should start thinking outside of the box instead of complaining about PvP-ers refusing to think. EoE still has a great synergy with AoE spells. It won't kill everything in radar range but it can easily enhance your DPS quite a bit. Just because it cannot kill stuff that's three aggro circles away from you doesn't make it crap...

5. As a summary: EoE was nerfed due to a number of reasons:
- Abuse in aspenwood
- Imbalance in PvE farming situations
- Minor annoyance in Tombs

Why didn't they adress each issue separetly?
- Using EoE in Aspenwood is valid tactic, even you want to take out NPCs. Changing the NPC race would eliminate this tactic, effectively making EoE completely useless. Now EoE can work exactly as it is intended: to create more pressure without eliminating a perfectly valid use. Instead of a one-skill-win it is now evolved into a intriguing tactic.
- Changing the HP-req is a perfect nerf to make EoE still trigger on groups you're trying to kill whilst leaving groups you aren't fighting unaffected
- Similarly: there is a new way to counter edge-bombs that allow you a defense in the one situation where you had non.


I give this change a big thumps up.

People seems to forget that EoE also affect your own team and your own minions, and that it takes Beastmastery, and that spirits are easy to kill (and cannot be healed by monk spells!).

For PvP pressuring, people could kill the spirit before you even get stuff to below 90%.

For PvE, to get mobs to below 90%, you need to cluster them together and use AoE, what's the point of EoE then, the AoE can take care of them already!

People always think nerf = more tacticful....ok work all these skills into your team build: rust, ignorance, unyielding aura, skull crack, hundred blade...etc. Then you can be really tacticful, or do you think these skill are useless and shouldn't be used seriously? Now look at EoE...

Holy crap people, what did this change? Completely undamaged players can no longer get bombed to death. It kills
- EoE farming
- Edge bomb in HA
- griefing in AB

That's it! It's still entirely possible to set off a chain reaction in halls, especially if you're running IWAY. No healer will heal someone from 90% hp to 100%, as that's incredibly energy inefficient. If someone gets hit by just a few attacks, they're within range of the bomb. I don't know about you guys, but I never stay at 100% hp for long in HA. Running into random traps, getting hit by AoE effects that were meant for someone else, the occasional wanding...damage that's not intended to kill, but it's always there, and now that collateral damage serves a purpose.

Honestly, if you think this is such a big frickin nerf, you either are a EoE farmer, someone who enjoyed edge bombing the Kurzicks in Ft. Aspenwood, someone who fame farms with EoE bomb, or a griefer. Very simple. No one else should be affected by this.

Like i said...do people really want to put point into beastmastery and go through all that fuss for....50 dmg...

There is more to beastmastery then EoE. And really, it is hardly 50 damage... If you're using it when there are two guys around, yeah then. But that is hardly making effective use of the skill.

The problem is if you take pet, you are already strapped on skill bar slot to fit in EoE, so either you do a half effective pet build, or you do something like cookie cutter thumper, or iway >.< and I thought people encourage variety in builds..

Wow do you guys really believe Anet does anything other then to boost sales? Yes that's what businesses are supposed to be into, but not a at the cost of the customers.

Basically the feeling I get more and more often is that all that anet cares about is the green stuff. After all, do you really think that anet would have changed this skill if there hadn't been a pvp weekend for FA and JQ?

You can say no but you and I both know that it's true. If it had been for HA or what not it would been "band-aid" addressed long ago, but now a nerf to EoE just happens to occur the night before the pvp event? Lol they aren't even trying to hide their greed anymore.

As for all you pver's out there, I hope you like getting to shaft a lot cause Anet really doesn't care about you. I mean, I can't really remember the last time I saw a fix to the game in the pve aspect. Tell me if you do, because all the "balancing" seems to be focused so that FOTM builds have to change with each new release.

Kinda sad isn't it?

I was fighting in Fort Aspenwood today with my Pet build. I have 14 Beast Mastery on the build and I make sure to bring EoE, even now.

The reason is, when you're trying to kill off the Kuzick NPCs, they will usually have less than 90% health, because you're attacking them. As well, most enemies will end up with less than 90% health, while I keep my health at practially 100%. So I can stand there demolishing Kurzicks, while not taking any damage myself.

This sounds more like a buff to me.

Nuke it, DOT it.

lol.

seriously, this was/is why EoE bombs happen.

peace.

Luxon siege turtles are overpowered.

This is the funniest post I've read in a long time. I got to rank 3 in 2 DAYS. We held HA for 6 hours straight for both days. I was so bored out of my mind I've never gone back but on rare instances.

Edge bomb was never a problem. In many cases it killed itself and could never make to the last map unless a skip let alone hold it.

I did read your post and responded acordingly. You might want to try to read mine and stop dying vs edge.

The point of having a high BM raiting is so that Tigers Fury can be at 10 seconds for constant use. EoE is just a bonus to having all the BM points.

Nerf them! Or just change up their stats slightly and make them basically useless. That's the anerf way.

What are you talking about...

The EoE nerf wasn't the only thing in the update, but it's what we're talking about. Were you high or something?

They are overpowered how? You can interupt their attack, demolish them with degen, and of course use Protective Spirit to counter their damage.

There were many different ways to counter EoE, yet that got the nerf bat.

Don't see why there should be a difference here.

yes they are overpowered. make them do damage when players got 90% health please.

I can honestly admit, that was one of the better e-laughs I've had to date.

The ways to counter EoE are different.

You can use Mark of Protection to counter the damage, but it has a 45 second recharge. You can kill the spirit, but they can always block your path, or use spirit heals (spawning power anyone?). You could try interupting the EoE placer, but they (should) use Mantra of Resolve, and knockdowns take some time.

I see much fewer counters to EoE that are as easy to execute as simply using Protective Spirit, or interupting the Turtle (which does not use Mantra of Resolve).

So that's for EoE bombing...but what about EoE in IWAY which was another use for it.

I doubt you'll be seeing any mantra of resolve on an IWAY warrior unless anet makes charm animal a mesmer skill.

You have no idea what you're talking about do you? The experienced IWAY builds I have seen (as in they made it to the Hall) use Ranger to deploy EoE. The simple fact is, a ranger can add up to 4 more attribute levels to Beast Mastery, and so they can make the best damage output.
Also, when was the last time you saw an IWAY with enough Beast Mastery for it to be worth it to use EoE?

I explicitly am talking about Iway who use EoE to clear every character off the map in Hall of Heroes, not singular edge bomb builds. I bolded it for you this time since you still dont get it.

From your description of your PvP experience it seems like you haven't done Heroes Ascent since before Iway become part of the metagame and evolved. When is the last time you saw a team hold for 6 hours straight?

Maybe you still PvP but unless you have consistently played at Heroes Ascent your view is flawed.

EoE vs Heal party = gg

1-2 heal party during the bomb is enough to save your entire team. You don't even have to touch the edge.

To me this is a classic example of anet making changes based on unskilled players comments. GW takes time and dedication to learn. If everything was handed to you on a silver platter it will be boring for the vets and unattractive to the ADD generation.

Just to add another note here thanx for making jade and amber near worthless with this double faction. gg Anet gg

When are you going to learn that players want something that is going to maintain is value over a long period of time. Ecto and Shards are great but FoW is really overrated. Many of the 15k armor looks totally better. This game isn't suppose to be about items but in pve what else is there. If you keep making everything in our inventories worthless how are we going to gain money to afford the really expensive items that did retain their value?

Yeah I got it that the ranger uses it, but in PUG groups (highest number of IWAY groups) the wars all bring EoE. So though I agree 100% with you on the ranger bringing it, and I know that's who *should* bring it, just saying it's not always like that.

I also addressed IWAY as well. Edge hurts IWAY just as much as you. Try using it to your advantage. Fight on the stairs and just putrid all their pets. GG.

Saw a team hold for more than 5 hours last week. Thank you and have a good day.

Agreed. Haven't seen somebody hold for that long in AGES.

Let me explain how it happens in Hall of Heroes.

You are holding halls, there are 8 people on the team who must heal themselves and the ghost on the altar. There are 2 other teams hellbent on killing you. Probably at least 1 of them is an Iway with EoE that they put down in the last minute, it is usually about 42dmg or so but sometimes more. When both teams rush you, you cannot sit on the stairs because of AoE and no room to kite damage and too far to heal your ghost. With 16 players all attacking the 8 on your team you will take dmg, your teammates will not all be at full health at all times. Iway runs in and starts whacking away, they have no monks so they start to getting very low in health. Suddenly EoE is up across the room, the Iway lets 7 of its players die and 300+ dmg in 1 second, which will kill some players on the other teams which causes a chain reaction and does over 600 dmg to everything. Then a necro who was sitting at the top of the stairs with their ghost walks down and claims altar unopposed.

It was a cheap trick, plain and simple.

Yet again you have to be in range of Edge. Kill it and its gg. IWAY will fold.

I don't need you to explain how it works. 80% of the matches in HA is IWAY. That's why our build is specificly made to kill IWAY and be able to heal the ghost through any other kind of build we run into.

As said before if you lose vs Edge its a lack of your own skill. Learn and adapt. After IWAY fades there will be another FOTM right behind it.

In that case, the team doesn't loose because the EoE gets killed, they loose becuase they are inexperienced and have no idea what to do.

Hall of Heroes altar area is the size of the spirit range

What super duper build do you run that defeats everything?

Seeing how Iway has been around for almost as long as Guild Wars, it doesnt fit into the catagory of FOTM, it has evolved and continues to. As easily as you point out to "learn and adapt" like you know what you are talking about, I suggest you learn and adapt to the new EoE for farming your grawls and vermin since that was its only other legitimate use.

Unnatural Signet, Consume Soul, Sprit Walk. These are very good anti spirit skills.

Its a build designed to hold. We kill IWAY till we get to Halls. Then we take down IWAY and hold out for the rest of the match. All you have to do is keep you ghost alive to win. I don't have to beat anything else but IWAY.

I've been playing the game since 04 beta I do know what I'm talking about. I've seen and ran just any any pvp bar you can name. Now not to waste more of my time use the search to find ways to beat IWAY.

IWAY is still a FOTM build. The game used to evolve much faster than it does now. Basicly any gimmick build is a FOTM. Since the games doesn't change every month like it used to they are now called "gimmicks."

Farming is not how I make my money my friend. Farming is for the people that have nothing to do and want to kill some time. I make more gold per hour than any farming spot can hope to yeild.

Edge is an immediate threat in pvp. If you do not deal with it or use tactics to beat it you will lose. That's where the player skill comes in. Players with low skill will die. Seasoned and vet players will know exactly what to do.

Your hesitation to post your build or explain it in any detail begs to differ. I have no problem defeating Iway, nor do I need tips. EoE is still very powerful as I have witnessed today and tactics against it havent changed; to find it quickly and kill it, as we always have. EoE in Halls was a nuisance but not gamebreaking, it was accepted that you needed to keep an eye out for it. My intent was not that it was overpowered, I simply was applauding Anet for this skill change in regards to an aspect I enjoy.

The whole reason you started this thread was to grief (look at the title) and it seems just for the sake of griefing. You claim to be an ultimate PvPer with an unstoppable build and have a secret gold getting strategy that outdoes every farmer apparently. Without any explaination or facts your claims seem rediculous. (btw eBay doesnt count )

g'night. gg. gl

My build is commonly known as the putrid build. I've seen players run it and fall flat on their faces. My group has ran it over a year with minor tweaks with factions.

As for the gold people here know my tricks and any one that can make gold knows not to tell. Otherwise it won't be there in a month's time.

I don't have to explain anything to anyone to be honest that is what the search feature is for.

The post was made to bring light to a change in a skill that was not really warrented. This was a band aid fix. If you had bothered to read the pages you would have seen that other people have said the exact same thing. Instead of creating punishment for leechers and greifers that use exploits the nerf the skill that caused it.

In pve does anyone care that EoE makes the missions and areas faster? Hell no.

In PvP does anyone care that you get hit by an edge bomb. Most do not because after the first time you won't fall for it again.

In AB there were greifers that killed the party before it even began. There is a problem with that.

In aspenwood EoE would wipe the NPCs including everyone else in no time. Learn to bring a rit. Union = EoE nullified. There is a reason people run rits to drag out to vod. Spirits and NPCs = advantage.

I haven't seen eoe all day in aspenwood. I'm still winning the battle within 5 minutes. Its called bringing a monk to keep the turtle alive. You don't need anything else. EoE was just iceing on the cake.

So the real problem was only AB greifing. So lets nerf it in all aspects of the game.

If GW continues in this manner they are going to lose players. Many players have already left because of updates like this. If you happen to listen to weapon of choice every week they just had this discussion last week.

For GW to survive its going to have to break up into different formats. Each format can have a restricted list of skills from a pertiular chapter they can use. GW created there game much like MTG. The problem MTG had was power 9 was always going to rule anything that would come out in the future. So they had to break the tournements up into T1, T2, Extend, Extend 1.5, Sealed deck, and draft.

They have already tested the sealed at Comicon. I expect that to the new hitch on Nightfalls like the AB was for factions.

They also need to break the ladder up into different Teirs then have the tournements. Having everyone under 1 ladder shuts players out. Now with the champ points and titles /rank was the last thing that GvG players wanted. There is a reason most people cannot get a team in HA.

GW has some major problems on their hands. Nightfalls is going to be their breaking point. It will decide if the game will continue at the quality we enjoyed the first year of GW. A few months pre-Factions and after its been going down hill. If GW doesn't do something besides these little band aid fixes they are going to lose a lot of players.

Sorry twicky, I'm going to have to agree with perfect here.

Anybody can claim to be or be ble to do something.

QFT.
But you forgot one class of player: the guys bitching about ANY change to ANYTHING, EVER.