Auto-Designated Guild Leader: A Warning - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

v1sor

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2005

UK

18 Aug 2006 at 23:55 - 1

OK - I want to warn all of you Guild Leaders out there. Log in to your accounts BEFORE 30 days is up otherwise you'll lose your leadership.

In fact, they say 30 days, but I would say it's more like 21. The irony in my case is that the leadership has been allocated to somebody who hasn't logged on in over 30 days!!!

Read more here: http://www.v1sor.com/ - especially about the battle that I am having with NCSoft and their inability to reverse what is an extremely bad decision by their system.

Annoyed...

Dural Ravenstar
Guild Leader Nefarius Doom [nD] (or at least I was...)

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

19 Aug 2006 at 00:03 - 2

Have known about this for quite some time. As far as I'm concerned I wouldn't want a leader who was AFK for a month. Not sure how they allocate the new leader, but it sure doesn't make sense to give it to someone else who doesn't log on.

madman420

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

19 Aug 2006 at 00:05 - 3

Yeah, most guilds expect their leader to be on every day, let alone taking several month long breaks. Maybe leading a guild isn't for you if your not going to play actively.

Azrael1309

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

ABQ, NM

LF Guild

19 Aug 2006 at 00:06 - 4

I have heard about cases like this. I guess this system is in place so that the guild has an active leader. Unfortunately, when the guild leader hasn't been active, the position goes to the most senior officer, so activity has nothing to do with why that other person received the leadership role.
This may or may not be possible in your situation, but I would suggest having a real good officer friend that you can trust to be active and handle your guild well if you have to take a long leave of absence. That way you can give him/her the leader spot while you're gone. Other than that, I hope someone else can give a good suggestion as to how to handle this situation when RL takes you away from the game.

v1sor

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2005

UK

19 Aug 2006 at 00:19 - 5

Unfortunately, the system seems to be somewhat - random.

I have an Assistant Guild Leader who *should* have been promoted, when in fact it was someone who hasn't been "seen" by the Guild for over a year...

My daily job means that I can't play as much as I'd like - I guess that is a crime. I can see what some people mean by not being a Guild Leader, but my Guild isn't one of these GvG PvP types - we're just a bunch of people who got to know each other online. More like a social network if you like.

Problem is, this network has a few communication kinks...ho hum.

Anyway - I challenge you to find ANYWHERE on the GuildWars webpages information pertaining to this "feature". It's not mentioned - but it does happen.

DR

Empex

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

19 Aug 2006 at 00:20 - 6

It's a pretty awesome system I think since 1 month usually means you aren't fit to lead a guild. If you are going away for a long term you can pass the guild leadership onto a trusted officer. Also, this is documented on the website - I know, I have researched it when I messed up on the rooster once.

v1sor

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2005

UK

19 Aug 2006 at 00:23 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empex

It's a pretty awesome system I think since 1 month usually means you aren't fit to lead a guild.

First off - this isn't a flame, ok?

1. I wasn't away for a month.
2. I would imagine that there are lots of similar Guilds to ours - does that make all of those "leaders" unfit too?
3. I don't see my manager at work for months on end. Does that mean that he shouldn't be my manager?

DR

Empex

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

19 Aug 2006 at 00:29 - 8

http://uk.support.plaync.com/cgi-bin...& p_topview=1
Well it's two months and that was in effect when I messed up.

Well, let's look at the reasons for this:
If someone is away for a long time they really should just hand over leadership to someone trusted who logs in every now and then. Most guilds do die when the leader is absent.

Also, in the case of messups like mine you end up having a pretty big problem when you have an inactive leader. If the leader just quits playing the game without handing over leadership you end up with a guild with (possibly) active members with a guild hall with purchased services, but no way of actually taking control of it so you can manage members, promote people and so on.

I'm guessing your manager at work has someone who can exercise his administrative tasks when he is away. In terms, handing over the leadership.

But of course, if this was less two months of inactivity there's something odd going on.

edit: oh and the person who gets leadership handed over is the guy who has been in the guild the longest and has the highest rank. The inactive member was an officer? Anyhow, it will soon sort itself out again.

v1sor

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2005

UK

19 Aug 2006 at 00:57 - 9

First off - thanks for finding that link. That is actually very helpful!

I've noted a lot of stuff on my site - so I won't repeat it here. Suffice to say that the leadership should have gone to somebody who has been assigned that task, and it hasn't. In fact, it's entirely random.

Oh - and it's always been a lot less than 30 days. Or 60, for that matter.

Anyhow - this isn't really a discussion regarding the rights and wrongs of Guild Leadership (or lack of), but more of a "Watch out - you might be next" thread.

I'm starting to wish I hadn't spent all that money on the collectors editions now since my dealings with "Customer Support".

DR

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

19 Aug 2006 at 01:09 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empex

It's a pretty awesome system I think since 1 month usually means you aren't fit to lead a guild. If you are going away for a long term you can pass the guild leadership onto a trusted officer. Also, this is documented on the website - I know, I have researched it when I messed up on the rooster once.

What if you are having personal problems in real life like say unemployment or health problems like being the hospital.That doesn't mean some make some unfit to lead a guild and there could be other reasons say marriage.There are some who lose their internet connection for awhile if money is tight and iit is the least important utility.

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

19 Aug 2006 at 01:28 - 11

Steal an idea from D&D online:

Mutiny button system.

The leader sets a second in command.

If the leader doesnt log in within 30 days, the mutiny button lights up for the second in command.

The second in command is now leader.

faralen

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

19 Aug 2006 at 01:33 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

What if you are having personal problems in real life like say unemployment or health problems like being the hospital.That doesn't mean some make some unfit to lead a guild and there could be other reasons say marriage.There are some who lose their internet connection for awhile if money is tight and iit is the least important utility.

Being "fit to run a guild" isn't something that's set permanently like your skin color. It changes with your life. Obviously, to "be fit" to be the leader of a group of people in an online game, then you need to be online right? You're just wasting your breath if you try to justify why you aren't. If you can't afford your internet connection and cancel it, you're not fit to run an internet guild until you get the internet connection back.

"Fidel Castro didn't temporarily transfer leadership to his brother, since he's still fit to lead the country. He's just completely bedridden, that's all."

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

19 Aug 2006 at 02:02 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by faralen

Being "fit to run a guild" isn't something that's set permanently like your skin color. It changes with your life. Obviously, to "be fit" to be the leader of a group of people in an online game, then you need to be online right? You're just wasting your breath if you try to justify why you aren't. If you can't afford your internet connection and cancel it, you're not fit to run an internet guild until you get the internet connection back.

"Fidel Castro didn't temporarily transfer leadership to his brother, since he's still fit to lead the country. He's just completely bedridden, that's all."

What if they refuse to give it back to you once you get back online or even kick you out of the Guild altogether.

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

19 Aug 2006 at 02:09 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

What if they refuse to give it back to you once you get back online or even kick you out of the Guild altogether.

Very hypothetical, and I would say it depends on your guild and their loyalty. I would be willing to say that with my guild if I were to leave and start a new guild most of them would follow. But such would not be necessary as all my officers are trusted and I'm sure they would be more than willing to re-instate me as leader.

v1sor

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2005

UK

19 Aug 2006 at 02:36 - 15

Good grief!

For fear of repeating myself (and I know I am)...
Something that I must get across is this. This is more of a social network kind of thing rather than a "I lead, you follow" type of affair, so with all due respect, being fit to "lead a Guild" is neither here nor there.

If we were a Guild with a large group of people, who GvG PvP on a (semi) regular basis, then so be it - I wouldn't have an issue with that at all. But because of the structure of the Guild itself, and the fact that I pretty much set it up - Guild Hall and all - with 99% funding from myself, means that it's a bit of wrench.

The reason this is an issue is because none of us play 24/7 - and in the case of the automatically promoted member - he hasn't been on in a month, and there is no way of contacting him to rectify the situation (nobody in the Guild has seen him for the best part of a year - we all seem to cross in the ether, so to speak).

If I was to remove permissions to a folder at work - WITHOUT TELLING THE PERSON CONCERNED - I would be fired (most likely). Now, I know that probably wasn't the best analogy, but I hope you get my meaning?

DR

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

19 Aug 2006 at 04:14 - 16

First of all It IS 2 months, I was in a guild that set there with an inactive leader for well over 1 month. (The last logged in date was at "1 month" for a few weeks).

I will say, if you got demoted before 1 month - It is a glitch in the system. But maybe you THINK it was less than a month...but time really does fly. I've had several instances where I thought..Well I havent been on in a day or two - only to see that my last login date was over a week prior. Thats the only insight I can see...

Secondly - They dont autopromtoe any officer thats been inactive for as long as the leader that was demoted. Dont worry.

Thirdly - As soon as That officer hits his inactive limit like you did - He will be auto-demoted just like you were and since you formed the guild - you are obviously the senior officer and will just get your position right back.

Anyway, if its just a friendly "Group, no will leads" community....who cares who has the highest name on the page (I know plenty of guilds that just let the mmost active person be leader)...You said yourself that the leader position really didnt matter. Then you turned that right around and said "and the fact that I pretty much set it up - Guild Hall and all - with 99% funding from myself, means that it's a bit of wrench." - Meaning you twisted your own words around and the Leadership spot does matter to you...Too which I say "Well Then, you should have cared more about logging in and keeping that spot.."

Dont come back with the excuses like "I work, I cant play 24/7"....24/7....All thats required to be "active" is you logging in FOR ONE SECOND every SIXTY DAYS.

BTW, your analogy is wrong, More like, "If the manager didnt show up for work for 2 months, He'd be fired and replaced."

Anyway...I'm getting frustrated with this topic..I'll just leave you with this...When that guy hits 2 months of inactivity you'll get your guild back..

Steehl

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

The Legion of Knights Errant

19 Aug 2006 at 06:49 - 17

Heh, I remember when I was inactive for many months without a playable internet connection (can anyone say 16.8kbs?). It would sometimes take me 14 hours to download a larger update to the game so I decided it would be better if I handed over leadership of my guild to my second in command. Problem was, she didn't want it. So I asked my next highest ranking, and trusted, officer. He didn't want it either.

Then came the "intervention." Talking in an all officer MSN chat one night they confessed that they couldn't imagine the guild being run by anyone else. No matter how hard I tried to convince them that it was only temporary and once my internet was reestablished I'd be back they would have no part of it.

They forced me to endure long downloads just to log on every couple weeks in order for my name to stay in the Guild Leader slot. That way the guild they knew and loved wouldn't change.

The moral of the story? I guess there isn't one really. But keep this story in mind when you're looking at your guild. Sometimes those in the guild care more about maintaining a comfortable, familiar atmosphere than having an active leader.

P.S. On the upside of things, all the downtime gave me an excuse to revamp the guild website.

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

19 Aug 2006 at 07:03 - 18

v1sor I know what ya mean. I've been in guilds where it isn't about who is leading and who isn't. Hell my guild now, the officers setup and "lead" just as much as the leader. We are just an easy going guild that occassionally likes to pve or pvp together. Our leader is leader cause he put it all together, maintains the website, and has our vent server. Not to mention he is a nice guy and we wouldn't have it any other way.... (in case he reads

)

People just don't always understand that all guilds aren't like theirs :S Hope you get it worked out.... or at least maybe in a month or two when the appointed leader is still inactive it might kick in again.

Feminist Terrorist

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Oh Noes! The 'burbs!

19 Aug 2006 at 08:07 - 19

Add a note to the guild announcements asking the new guild leader to kindly designate you leader again. IMO, you've got nothing to lose by doing so.

madman420

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

19 Aug 2006 at 08:14 - 20

Maybe you guys didn't read the link in the OP's original post. He had been demoted several times due to inactivity. If he didn't get the hint the first time, then maybe he shouldn't be leading a guild at all.

eightyfour-onesevenfive

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

7??13'35" E - 50??06'27" N

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

19 Aug 2006 at 08:26 - 21

I fail to see how judging if v1sor is fit to lead a guild helps this topic or even the general issue in any way. Stop defending yourself v1sor, it's off the point.

As far as I can tell v1sor is complaining mostly not about the system of replacing inactive guild leaders, but rather about doing so earlier than documented and with a member that isn't by any means more active. Now, please, does anyone here agree to that?

Phoenixmaster

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2007

05 May 2007 at 10:05 - 22

i know how it feels to loose leadership..

i logged onto GW today because its my guilds 2 year creation date next week.
i was making a website for my guild because of this event and now ive found that a officer i never recruited is leader, and i just figured that he can kick me if he wished. so id loose my 2 year old guild =/

how is that fair? there shud be a option to stop the "ex" leader been kicked.

The reason i havent been on is because of a mix of a lack of internet and exams.

Maybe a option so that the leader can give the guild to a officer if they are away for so long? like mark that officer as second in command?

Sorry about my spelling, i was in a rush.

Thanks Phoenix =]

Shmanka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

In Your Head

The Brave Will Fall [Nion]

Me/

05 May 2007 at 10:12 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Steal an idea from D&D online:

Mutiny button system.

The leader sets a second in command.

If the leader doesnt log in within 30 days, the mutiny button lights up for the second in command.

The second in command is now leader.

WTB more then a 3 ranking system in a guild, C/O 100k+50Ecto+Anet's attention B/O Gaile responds

Phoenixmaster

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2007

05 May 2007 at 10:40 - 24

o sorry! didnt notice =/

must admit it is an annoying option at times

Krispy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Colorado

Katet Of Gilead

07 May 2007 at 16:43 - 25

Our guild rotates guild leaders on a regular basis. The average time for one officer to be leader is roughly 2 weeks, but sometimes is longer, depending on how active everyone is. If the leader knows he/she is going to be away for more than 1 week straight, they have to promote someone else who will be active. We require the leader to log at least twice a week, or pass the torch on to someone else. Officers are required to log at least once every two weeks or they get demoted, unless there's a good reason (death, vacation, wedding, etc...)

I think it comes down to good guild management and setting rules that everyone agrees to. We don't promote someone to officer unless they're willing to take on the responsibility. (Not that it's tough. It's not like we're guarding nukes or something.)

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

07 May 2007 at 17:33 - 26

I was knocked out of my "guild leader" status as well after afking for 30 days.... except I was the only person in my guild

so now I'm an officer in a "leaderless" guild.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

07 May 2007 at 19:50 - 27

Guess I should keep an eye on my spare account....

This system is pretty dumb. There is no reason anyone should be kicked from leader of the guild they made. If the members have a problem with an inactive leader then they should leave the guild. No reason to auto replace the leader.

oceanicdemigod

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

The Kaizen Order [KaiZ]

N/Me

07 May 2007 at 20:28 - 28

Just wait for the system to kick out the new inactive leader and hope you or fellow active player gets back in leadership ^_^ - im always active so i never knew this would happen..haha glad i hav never been that inactive ^_^...granted im in a new guild and dont have to worry about leadership timeouts hehe. ^_^

CyberNigma

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

San Antonio, TX

W/R

07 May 2007 at 21:01 - 29

yeah how he runs his guild isn't really relevant to how it picks the successor. some guilds are seasonal, or so casual that they only really play or get together upon new release for a few months. even one of the anet founders metnioned some people play it, put it on the shelf, and wait for the next release. there's n o reason a casual guild couldn't do the same. it would keep them from having to regroup or find other people when the next release happens. not every guild revolves around GW. some guilds are bigger than that and only come back for special occasions or releases and play other games in the meantime.

kazjun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

HoVa

W/N

08 May 2007 at 03:31 - 30

It doesn't take that long to keep active. A minute a fortnight. If you can't even manage that, then pass it on to someone who can, and you trust not to kick you. If you got no one you can trust, well, considering you're supposedly in charge of recruiting and promoting...

If having a guild is all that matters, kick everyone and be a guild of one. If you want the social side, well you're going to have to talk to and trust your guildies.

Caleb

Nil nisi malis terrori.

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/Me

08 May 2007 at 03:51 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

There is no reason anyone should be kicked from leader of the guild they made. If the members have a problem with an inactive leader then they should leave the guild. No reason to auto replace the leader.

There is one situation that demands a guild leader be automatically demoted (and it is 60 days that the demotion takes place):

Guild leader banned from Guild Wars. 2 months pass and the officer that has been in the guild the longest is promoted to the leader position, and the banned or absent leader is demoted to officer.

It automatically promotes the officer with the longest tenure in the guild (by join date).

The system is effective in my opinion, and I don't see any way for an automated system to discern whether you've just abandoned the guild or whether you've got real life situations that preclude you logging in.

That's another key point, you don't have to be active, heck you don't even have to play. You simply need to log in once every 60 days or trust your most tenured officer to give you back the guild when he gets promoted.

And people: Please keep the discussion on the topic of the guild leader removal process rather than the OP's personal ability to lead a guild. That is not the focus of this thread, and there's no need to get a good discussion closed by making it personal. Thanks.

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

08 May 2007 at 12:03 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empex

It's a pretty awesome system I think since 1 month usually means you aren't fit to lead a guild. If you are going away for a long term you can pass the guild leadership onto a trusted officer. Also, this is documented on the website - I know, I have researched it when I messed up on the rooster once.

Ok, one thing... Some of us run Multi game guilds and sometimes don't make it on... this is the first I've heard about this system and the very fact its there annoys me no end

I'm told, by one of my many spies that this has been in game since inception... this is news to me and yes, theres no information about it on the Wiki or the official website

Gonzo

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Netherlands

Defenders of the Blackblade [DotB]

W/

08 May 2007 at 13:43 - 33

Actually, it is and has been on wiki for quite some time. Here.

I think if your leader hasn't shown up for 60 days it's only natural that somebody else gets that position.
I take it that you, as guild leader, only make people you trust officer and in turn trust their judgement in making new officers if they see fit, how can you not trust on of those members to assume control if you yourself have not made it online for 60 days (which is an absurdly long time not to log in even if it's at least to check how your guild is doing for a couple of seconds).

antialias02

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Eastern Iowa

Forsaken Wanderers [FW]

Me/E

08 May 2007 at 13:44 - 34

I'm currently the leader of a guild of about 40 members. And I, for one, am very glad this system is in place. If I were an officer or a member in a guild who's leader had left abruptly, or simply went AFK with no notice, I would want to be able to move on as a guild.

If the leader found time to come back, perhaps he would still be able to lead. Either way, a guild isn't personal property. A guild should be jointly owned by Leader, Officers, and Members. It would be terribly frustrating to be in a guild whose leader was simply gone and be unable to do anything about it.

So, in short, I think the system is just fine.

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

08 May 2007 at 13:53 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Actually, it is and has been on wiki for quite some time. Here.

I think if your leader hasn't shown up for 60 days it's only natural that somebody else gets that position.
I take it that you, as guild leader, only make people you trust officer and in turn trust their judgement in making new officers if they see fit, how can you not trust on of those members to assume control if you yourself have not made it online for 60 days (which is an absurdly long time not to log in even if it's at least to check how your guild is doing for a couple of seconds).

Ahh, thanks for the link, haven't used the Old wiki in ages, and not looked it up on the new wiki, but will go have a look in a moment...

However, as i'm sure is the case for a few guilds, if a leader runs a guild through multiple games, as i do, there may be times when i can't make it onto one game for a protracted period of time... and even with my love for GW and it being the father game to my guild, GW will take the backseat due to its no fee model... So far i log in at the least once a week, but that could change when i'm working again and more games are added tot he guild and I need to be versed in them and also after setting up our new radio station aswell, it may have to take a long protracted backseat, but thats not really a good thing if this is the case though

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

08 May 2007 at 13:58 - 36

I've never ran into the system.... but for problems like that highlighted by Diablo above.... I hope my computer never breaks down...

It has happened in the past.
I was the leader of quite a significant Clan on Phantasy Star Online.... until my Dreamcast burnt out and I wasn't able to replace it. Total mess. Lost everything I'd strived for...

Computers are just as capable of messing up.... and if I couldn't get access to a computer for that long, I'd be seriously p!ssed off if the Solo Guild I had invested vast amounts of cash in ended up leaderless because of one fubar little system.

Gonzo

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Netherlands

Defenders of the Blackblade [DotB]

W/

08 May 2007 at 14:05 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Ahh, thanks for the link, haven't used the Old wiki in ages, and not looked it up on the new wiki, but will go have a look in a moment...

However, as i'm sure is the case for a few guilds, if a leader runs a guild through multiple games, as i do, there may be times when i can't make it onto one game for a protracted period of time... and even with my love for GW and it being the father game to my guild, GW will take the backseat due to its no fee model... So far i log in at the least once a week, but that could change when i'm working again and more games are added tot he guild and I need to be versed in them and also after setting up our new radio station aswell, it may have to take a long protracted backseat, but thats not really a good thing if this is the case though

If this would be the case and you could foresee yourself not logging in for 2 whole months, wouldn't you assign somebody you trust as a temporary guild leader? I know as a fact that our guild leader assigns temp GL's if he knows he's going into an inactive period (which involves loggin in once a week just for a short chat).

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

08 May 2007 at 15:11 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

If this would be the case and you could foresee yourself not logging in for 2 whole months, wouldn't you assign somebody you trust as a temporary guild leader? I know as a fact that our guild leader assigns temp GL's if he knows he's going into an inactive period (which involves loggin in once a week just for a short chat).

Why would I have to do that? My officers are guild officers and are such in any game we all play and the guild is situated in, why should I habd the reigns over just because i'm not in a particular game?

Ec]-[oMaN

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Toronto, Ont.

[DT][pT][jT][Grim][Nion]

W/

08 May 2007 at 15:22 - 39

This thread is funnies. Thank god options like this have been put into place by Anet. Think of all those poor guilds where the leader just took off with not one word. Good riddence, you shouldn't be leading anything wether it be in a video game or irl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eightyfour-onesevenfive

As far as I can tell v1sor is complaining mostly not about the system of replacing inactive guild leaders, but rather about doing so earlier than documented

Tuff cookies...

Quote:

Originally Posted by eightyfour-onesevenfive

and with a member that isn't by any means more active.

Yeah that should be altered...

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

08 May 2007 at 15:46 - 40

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:Auto-designation.jpg

^ that shows up