No more PvE with Factions?

I really don't think Anet would be stupid enough to make all campaigns pvp focused in the future, give them some credit. I expect that if Nightfall's pve aspect doesn't quite live upto Prophecies, it'll definitely atleast be better than Factions. And although most pve focused players have complained about the quality of the pve content in Factions ad nauseum, I've never heard any of them actually quit GW. They just hang out in Tyria.

I usually use henches because they are much more reliable than human players. They will never rush ahead, won't complain or fight, won't leave and throw tantrums, won't beg when I get a good drop... Henches > people anyday.

Although I hate hencing missions, so I use PUGS for that, but for all the little side quests I use henches.

I agree that many have not left and migrated back to Tyria, but some have quit. My entire guild went the way of the Dodo for a good while. These rescent events have brought them back with some new interest... though oddly, the PvP weekend events, they are gone again... like this weekend /sigh.

Anet also knows, that after Factions (insert ad nauseum) horrid PvE content, Nightfall will be the make or break for many PvEers. If it's not the holy grail that makes up for Factions, many, including myself will find themselves hard pressed to support Chapter 4 and onward. Anet knows this, and they can see the "bigger" PvE online games sporting 6 millions paying subs (the fools paying to play a game) whereas GW is counting Proph and Factions to get 2 million counts; in other words ~1 million customers with both chapters.

For those that don't know, "~" means estimate, and those figures are not outta my bum, those are from Anet's press release. Anet didn't say Factions had 2 million, they said Guild Wars had 2 million. Guild Wars is the name both chapters carry. Therefore, the 2 million includes Chapter 1 and 2.

The OP is hysterical; for the last 3 months before Factions' release, finding a party for anything other than major quests, or cookie-cutter farming builds, was ridiculously time consuming. There is nothing new about Factions' PvE.

Now...I'm hopeful that Nightfall will add new party-forming options, which will let the people who want to quest meet up more easily, thus partially alleviating this problem.

I'll use this quote, cause its convenient, though this is towards all the guys who say that factions has more pve content than prophecies.
Sure, it probably does. I didn't sit there and count, but that is besides the point.
I had some reasons typed out, but this example will show what I mean better:

In Prophecies you go from pre-searing to fighting the charr. But then you have to retreat over the mountains, so you have to get the dwarves to help(which means you help them later). Then you help the Krytans for a place to live, which leads you to the desert, to ascend, to Glint, to the source of all your trouble, and THEN you go help the dwarves.

Factions goes like this: Join Monastary, do quests which lead you past locked gates. Do more quests. And some more. Do a couple Missions that show you who you'll be fighting later on. Leave the Island, kill Afflicted and do some quests until you get to the missions. Start to really discover what the problem is, get closer to the stars, kill bad guy, end game.

They're both the same, essentially. But Prophecies has a much bigger lead up, they actually take the time to immerse your character in the world in which they live. It's the same plot line, but with more twists. PvE is about the story. Prophecies was an immersive world of 5 or 6 stories, while Factions is a straightforward single story.
I'm having fun with a lvl 20 Tyrian in Cantha, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting interested in starting anyone in Cantha, just because of Shing Jea. That lack of lead-up story telling just keeps it from being interesting to me. I like Cantha, but I hope that Nightfall outshines it by a good measure.

You could skip them in presearing, if you wanted to. The Tyrian profession quests weren't boring and didn't feel like grind and I didn't expect their Canthan counterparts to be so bad.
Besides, in an RPG you normally do any quest you can get, unless it conflicts with your character.

Not sure that anyone in this thread complained about the lack of level 20 content in Tyria. Someone mentioned their friends went back to Tyria because they didn't like Cantha much.

The trip is from Lion's Arch, your character would be around 14 then. It doesn't fit in the story to go to Cantha so early, but it is possible.

You seem so focussed on this level-20 content, there is more content to be enjoyed before those final levels. All in all Tyria has just more story and variation and less repeating the same thing then Cantha, or at least that is how it feels.

The Canthan scenery is excellent though

For Prophecies you only mention high level area's ... and you forget the whole Sorrow's Furnace and Titan line of quests. On the Canthan side, you've added a bunch of PvP missions that do not belong in a PvE talk.

I dont get it. There's lack of content in Factions, so you people rather go back to Tyria where's there's even less level 20 content (And yes I bring up the level 20 issue because I assume most of your characters are level 20 now)

It's strange to complain about lack of content in Factions...but yet go back to old content that you've done before a million times.

And a lot of you cant seem to understand that new Chapters would have to have more level 20 content overall because with each chapter, people will have more and more level 20 characters. Imagine buying a chapter and finding that your level 20 characters can only play half of the content. Boy would you really be complaining about content then.

Referring to the text I bolded: Maybe its because that old content is...better? If that old content can still interest someone despite numerous playings while Factions can't hold their attention despite new content, then something is wrong. The country of Cantha simply can't hold its own against the entertainment value of 3 different nations/countries.

Also, if a country was more spread out(like in Prophecies) so that the lesser percentage of the country were 'level 20' material, wouldn't that simply give greater incentive to build a character in that country? People would simply bring their Tyrian level 20's across and set to killing monsters if it were mostly 'level 20' material, never bothering to start a character there.

The difference is this. With each chapter, you accumulate more and more level 20 characters. So each chapter has to have the bulk of it being level 20 content. New characters that you create will still be able to experience the level 20 content as they level up. New characters wont miss out on anything. It's a win-win situation.

But if each chapter was like in Prophecies, a whole chunk of the game won't be played by the imported characters. How fun is it for a level 20 character to fight level 1-19 monsters? Most of the characters will miss out on a lot of content. And for what? Because you wanted to prolong the leveling and lower level content? Level 20 characters lose out here.

EDIT: Maybe ANET should give the option of starting a character in Tyria even with "foreign" characters. That way you people who want your prolonged leveling experience can have that and not screw it up for everyone else.

Only thing I can say against this is: Aren't they supposed to be standalones? While linking campaigns should be handled(i.e. Lion's arch quest to Cantha), the primary purpose of each chapter is to create an independent game. If theres not enough reason to start a character in that area, it simply becomes an expansion. If we need more 'level 20' areas, they can always be added later, like Sorrows Furnace.

Also I'd also thought that we should be able to bring 'foreign' characters through other chapters from the start. People do immigrate, after all. And there was that Krytan in Ascalon(though thats an easier placement than from across the sea)It would be nice if that were implemented with the core classes at some point.

I think it was a mistake on their part to call them standalone. Obviously, they're not completely separate games. I agree with you that they're glorified expansions. By the way Sorrow's Furnace was only added because Prophecies was going to go for a whole year without a Chapter and extra content was needed.

I don't actually go back, I might start a new character there, but at the moment I am playing through Cantha with my Tyrian ranger.

I do understand this, and I appreciate it, and even though I think content is lacking, I also think they they did well in their approach of the problem of making the content available to both young Canthan as well as veteran Tryrian characters.

I believe, overall, that Factions provides more of a challenge for players in PvE. I think this doesn't bode well with many because it is a little difficult to organize a party, and not everything can be done on the first try (if the second). People lack the patience to handle a lot of the PvE content...

... I agree that henchies are more reliable, and I will pick them up if I don't have the patience to spam, "LFG ------" in town. But I often try nonetheless before I take up a team of henchies because I enjoy the human element of the game. And I don't mind a failure or two. If people are really enjoying the game, then failure brings us together, and the game is more entertaining. I don't know what it is, though, but such events are rare... as most failures are countered with, "WTF WTF NOOOB" or rage quitters. I mean, the term "rage quit" wasn't so common in Prophecies, I believe..

For some reason, I thought Factions was going to be more PvP oriented before it was released. I don't know where I got that idea, but I wasn't so surprised by it as most people seem to be. I enjoy most of the competitive nature of Factions, and there is still so much PvE content... but I believe it is less developed... cannon fodder, if you will. The story barely holds itself together, the characters (Togo, Danika, Shiro, etc.) are lacking character... and the voice acting just went to hell.

I see so many people complain about Factions in Local channels, so much more than they had in Prophecies.. and it bothers me that many of these complaints seem racial. People complain that the game is too Asian-looking, make racial comments about the game (often it is directed at Chinese) that are less than complimentary (would you say Tyria is too Western looking? Elona is too African?). This may all be fueled by the frustration of PvE challenges.. but I think it is all uncalled for. I was never happy with how the game portrayed the Asian continent (a big freaking ghetto) and what not... or how stereotypical many of the characters looked (could the guys get any more androgenous? Could the girls have any bigger teeth?). Okay, some of the designs look fine (if not better than before), but I'm talking about.. say, the elementalists (male and female)? The male rangers? Some new designs just look goofy! Is that really how people think we look?! But I'm going off on a tangent...

... er, just my thoughts there. I agree that Factions seems lacking much of what Prophecies had, but I can't say I don't enjoy playing Factions. It is, after all, still an entertaining way to spend free time.

I think the admins have commented elsewhere they've noticed a general disquiet across all the GW sites/forums, since Factions came out. I'm guessing it wasn't like that for Prophecies. In other words, I think most people were happy with the original overall, with some gripes maybe.

Anet will have noticed this too, if they pay any attention, so hence those quotes from Gaile and hopefully thus they'll do something about the PvE and make it better - more like Prophecies in some ways I hope, though I doubt it will be as large a game world because Prophecies had a lot more development time (years even). If they don't care at all they'll lose sales which is what keeps this franchise going.. no subscriptions remember.

Considering that general disquiet, they'd have to be pretty stupid to ignore it and carry on the same course - it would hit them where it hurts, in the sales department and put off segments of the existing customers from buying more chapters, so it's in their best interest to get it right this time.

I'm quite surprised to see that this thread did not get hijacked by the fanboi crowd yet. Normally they pop up within 15 Minutes of the OP and turn the thread into an extreme flame festival.

It is not that Factions lack Highlevel Content as almost everyting of it is geared towards and around Level 20. It is simply that the Factions endgame content is dull and few in numbers. There are basically only the Elitemissions and accessing them is still very flawed. If not for the GH Bug those would be utterly deserted (even with, they're mostly empty).

But in my opinion, Factions had one major flaw. Lack of Textures. Having to walk through a city built with the intention of a maze is okay. But having to see the same old texture again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
So after you've left Slumcity you see a new texture and then head into the Kurzick and Luxon Area. So let's start with the Luxon Area. Green. Green. Green. Green again. Green. Green. Green Green again. Yep, just like kaineng the same texture again and again.
Head over to the Kurzick Area. Black. Black. Black. Black. Black. Black. Bleach. Black. Black. Bleach. Black. Yep. Same as with Kaineng, Luxon Area and the whole rest of Factions. It's one single texture over and over again. The areas within one theme all completely look the same.

Add in poor map design without much thinking behind it. Why the hell do the Outcasts roam the Crater in such large masses? Why are there so many Crimson Skulls on the Tutorial Island? Why (!!!) are there 10 Onis guarding a bridge inbetween a plentitude of bridges that no one ever has cross!?
Sorry to say but the mob placement is just *hold a button and randomly click somewhere*.

/edit:
My decision of Nightfall will be to wait for the first impressions of my Alliance. Every single one of them is severely disappointed by Factions and besides the claims of better sales, the actual number of players seems to have faded away. Mind you, sales don't equal amount of players in a direct way. If 1.000.000 people buy the expansion and stop playing it after 2 weeks it's still empty in Factions.

tbh i'm quite happy with factions as i have a rather active guild and active alliance and always able to help ppl on missions quests etc...
Also i really like the title feature, it gives you an extra goal in the game...

The only times I see American servers empty are around 8am EST.

I'm not sure of any game where you're forced to do sidequests; and you're certainly not forced to do any profession quests beyond your primary and your one chosen secondary in Factions.

But I'm not referring to total content. I already said that Tyria has more absolute content than Cantha does; that's not under debate. I'm saying that Cantha has far, far more high-level content than Tyria does, and I don't know about you, but I would much much rather repeat high-level than mid-level content (doing Maguuma over and over? no thank you).

Yes, I forgot the Titan quests; my mistake. And true, they are some of the better content Tyria has to offer, I still haven't finished LDD. Sorrow's Furnace is included among the Southern Shiverpeaks, though I did not mention it specifically.

On the Canthan side, if you take out the PvP ones, you're still left with more content: just removing the two Competitives and the Alliance Battles still leaves a hefty list.

I highly doubt that when I make my nightfall character (IF I buy that expansion) that I will take said character to Cantha, however; I would take it to Tyria---there is more there in my opinion than just killing the same old monsters over and over again (more afflicted anyone???---get tired of them after the slums and then again in the luxon and kurzick mission....please more different monsters!!!!). Cantha is just tooo small and lacks story that tyria didnt. I know lots of people skipped the jungle, but I LIKE killing the trolls and spiders----they were different from the dolyaks! though wasnt much happy with those dang devours making a reapperance in the desert.....and since the level is lower for areas like the jungle and kryta, my not level 20 (or not a solo character) can go there alone and kill stuff.....pug/henchie less. Not so in cantha.....and shing jing doesnt count.
my 2cents worth.

Most of you arent complaining about actual issues but about your own personal tastes. Prophecies PVE isnt any much different than Factions PVE. In fact, they're both very boring and repetitive.

It wasnt the "lack" of content that drove you back to Tyria...it's your own biases and your unwillingless to let go of Prophecies. I mean, one guy is nitpicking about textures as being a "major flaw of Factions"

Since when have textures become a major flaw? I've also seen people who have said they simply didnt like Factions because of the Asian setting. And they had the nerve to proclaim that the PVE was horrible because they just didnt like looking at all the asian stuff.

My point is to not confuse your personal biases with actual issues.

You should probably go ahead and define what you mean by "hack and slash" because I have no idea what you're talking about.

Do not pretend to know why other people do something, you can not read minds and attempts to do so will only make you look foolish. Everyone has their own perspective, but calling a perspective that does not agree with yours "biased" is cheap and disrespectfull. Such tactics suit The Jester Prince better.

Mhh, and what about you confusing your personal biases with the actual issues? Everyone has their own outlook.

Btw, the outlook of which one of you would that be, Childe of Malkav?

It's the combat part of the game. If there's a lot of fighting and only a small story, I call it Hack&Slash.

I will say that some areas of Factions are a barren wasteland, but the same can be said for areas in Proph. A lot of people are concentrated in farming areas in both chapters, so that does take away from quest/mission areas, unless they are a farming spot as well. I will say, that I prefer Proph. over Faction because you can learn skills from quests, I enjoy the storyline more (as broken as it may be), and because there are no locked doors/gates/etc. that pigeon hole you into doing a certain quest or even just exploring.

Just to highlight how frickin' ridiculous some of the Factions quests can get...

On the path to Ghial farming, I stumbled upon the Tengu colony where you can get a quest from the leader, Quill. He asks you to speak to someone from the Ministry of Earth and prevent his colony from being demolished. The NPC you need to talk to is some guy outside of Senji's. But what this whole quest boils down to is paying 2k for 10k experience. You have the option of bribing the NPC to keep him from destroying the Tengu colony.

I don't know but to me, that was just ridiculous, even as far as Faction quests go. I mean, sure you could say that it's cheap and people might like the boost toward lvl 20.. but aren't most players lvl 20 by the time they get to Senji's?

I must say that I agree with most of this.

Except the merchants. If you choose to remain neutral or are allied with the 'enemy' then why should they trade with you? However, I agree it is a pain. Especially if in a good group and not everyone ready to warp just so you can sell. Why not a merch that will sell at a discount to non-allies?

I like factions missions for some reasons, but I agree with the 'flaws' listed above.

One amendment to my prior post.
The henchies aren't in general worse. But their are problems with the rez AI, getting some better and a few other idiosynchrocies.

Like the poster above said, the quests are pretty much stupid for anyone who's level 20 already. 2plat for 10k xp, eh, nice I guess if you need it, which you shouldn't since there are a ton of quests who give out plenty of exp anyway which are along the way. Not that the quests are interesting though, I just ended up trekking through the same place over and over again. Maybe if you were to do them now, you could just get a list off guildwiki and do all the quests in an area at once but when I did them with my main I just ended up going back and forth to the same area over and over. And having to kill the same boring mobs over and over.

Which is the main prob of questing now. I got factions when it first came out and I went over with my tyrian warrior, finished all the missions and quests (even that one you get from the guard on top of tahnakai temple, which is harder to get to than most of the missions are to do). I did it cause it was new and I was curious, but really, lvl20 and about 90 unused skill points (I got all my warrior skills and most of the necro and some of the other prof skills you use with a war) xp is worthless, the drops from questing are pretty poor (for the time involved you get better going to the UW or FoW) unless its a boss farming spot and the money is likewise poor compared to beating on armoured cave spiders.

Which means, I've done them on my prime and have no need or want to do them again. Unless they're right outside town, I'm not likely to go do them again unless they friends or guildies. Hell, all my other chars have done nothing but primary quests and missions, unless the quest was right on the way, and that's just cause I want the kurzick armour. Doing some random piddly quest is pointless to me, I spend my time on pvp or the faction battles. Other than that, farming's the only pve I do right now.
I expect that it's the same for most people which is why you find it tough to get parties for quests. Maybe with the new items I might go help people with quests since the mobs may drop something while I'm out there, but even then farming for items is best done solo so...

Truth to tell, I can't say I believe Nightfall will bring any fun in GW PvE. The reason simply being that PvE cannot reward it's players. Keyword is balance of PvP, consequently dragging PvE part into it.

And balanced PvE is not fun, because you'll never be super-equipped or owerpowering. And I'm not thinking level-wise. Level should be set at 20, not only for balance sake, but to escape needless grind. I mean you'll never feel you're developing your character in PvE again, simply because addons cannot support 1-20 levelup across half a map, but will almost-instantly leave you at 20. PvE is about progress, heroism, immersion and all that. Well, you can't have it! Game must be balanced.

People complain about "Grinding" and "boring" feel of quests&missions, even if they are endgame content. It's simply because there's no rewards to fight for. Exp? What the hell do I need exp for? What do I need skillpoints? Money rewards are also meh. What fuels PvE (and should) is rewards and challenge. And by rewards I don't mean new skins on green weapons just as strong as ordinary ones. But this must remain so as long as PvE and PvP chars intermingle. That's why I think PvE is doomed in GW, whatever PvE content Nightfall brings. A bit of refreshment is competitive missions, but these are also PvE content, because PvP community shuns them. Maybe really a drastic measure is needed - divide PvE and PvP parts once for all. Make PvE chars/equipment "heroic" and PvP "balanced".

And please make better looking armors (better skins), most current ones (plain example are ALL ele armours - why cant they have robes, ffs?!) look like barbie's dressup.

There is also a ton of useless skills atm, or just weakened versions of good ones. I wouldn't mind pruning that jungle just one bit.

What I'd also suggest is to totally separate PvP from PvE content in regard that PvE players cannot enter PvP areas and vice-versa.

Otherwise, I really suspect GW PvE will bore seasoned players to death in Nightfall, no matter how cleverly designed.

I don't have any problem with the "quality" of pve in Factions; I thought it was fine; for me it's about the "quantity". Tyria has 25 missions and Cantha has 13. Tyria is far larger than Cantha and inherently has far more quests. I never get bored; if there's something to do, no matter how tedious, I'll do it. Also, I don't mind xp rewards cause unlike most people I buy every skill for every class for every campaign (but I'm not one of those people that spends all day every day in fow/uw to get 35 mil xp).

Lolz, everyone hates factions here, I bought factions first, and then prophecies. Guess what, I actually like Factions better then Prophecies (but that can change since I'm not further than the desert yet). I agree with the ppl when it comes to quantity though, but I cant get ppl complaining about the lack of decent players or PUGs. I mostly join PUGs that ask for a specific profession, because they mostly seem to think carefully about the team build and therefore seem to know what they are doing. I think players are generally nice too. I had 2 jerks in 3 months of GW and i use PUGs a lot. Maybe I'm just lucky, I should cherish that... Maybe because of that I like the timed mission better also. And if theres one thing I cant get enough of it is beating Urgoz (or, at least, trying to beat Urgoz). The only thing thats bloody annoying is teams with noobies advertising they want to beat missions at master level, you know that ppl like that do it for the first time since noobies never skip the cinematics. Too bad I never leave a group out of decency.

QFT, and sorry for chopping your post up a bit torquemada, but those parts mentioned are what I've been saying for months

There exist fantastic modules for NWN that have no, or little, character progress (and some even come with prebuild characters). PvE does not equal character building and can be much more then that.

Given that people will want to take their existing characters into these coming chapters ANet would, imo, have to come with a solid main story (or stories, why not?), interesting sidequests and challenging combat.

For me, I've been tainted by greed, and the innocence of questing and exploring has long since gone.

I'd love to start a Canthan character in Tyria. I want to start up a Ritualist, but after playing through Shing Jae and Keineng with an Assassin, I just don't want to go back there.

You could always make fan driven content as they are to busy.I did read in the eula that players can be make fan made content and be given an ftp to upload it to thier servers.They will check it out for mal ware etc.

Look up the word biased before you flame me. You obviously dont understand the meaning because you took offense to it. And it's sad that you had to flame another poster by name who's not even in this thread.

Somehow I agree with torquemada on this, that the idea of instance teamwork missioning was a novel and interesting idea when it first came to be more than a year ago but it would be difficult to recreate that feeling and re-experience Guildwars again even with nightfall seening how things are likely to be the same since it is suppose to be a standalone product as well hence possessing overall similar game mechanics overlapping the other chapters. Not forgetting more PvE nerfs to accomodate the PvP balancing...

I am begining to lose hope...