I'm somewhat new to Guild Wars. I'm not looking to be completely hardcore or follow any sort of cookie cutter build. I'm just looking to be moderately successful in pve while questing with my friends.
I chose Ranger/Monk. I am also intending to use a pet, because I like the novelty. So far I've been concentrating my points in Expertise, Beastmastery, Marksmanship, and Healing Prayers. I don't intend to use any other trees.
Does anybody have any advice for a pet-utilizing healing ranger?
Some advice
Mahdi
Pick Me
I was once like you, I have a R/Mo and I wanted a pet too. Sadly, the further I went into the game, the less time I used my pet. 
In order to get the most damage out of your pet, put beast master to 12. To get the most damage out of your bow, put marksmanship to 12. Expertise will lower the cost of energy for all non-spell skills that you have, so comfort animal will heal your pet well with little energy used. I would not use any healing prayers, just use mend ailment and rebirth.
Get runes for Marksmanship, beastmastery and expertise. If you want all four attributes, you will not be able to maximize any one stat.
What I did, was have Expertise: 2, Marksmanship 12, Beastmastery 12, Wildernes Surivial 4. Using minior runes and a mask.
I don't have a build for you, but if you look for a pure Ranger build (including beastmaster build) you can come up with something to your liking.
Good luck, and have fun.
In order to get the most damage out of your pet, put beast master to 12. To get the most damage out of your bow, put marksmanship to 12. Expertise will lower the cost of energy for all non-spell skills that you have, so comfort animal will heal your pet well with little energy used. I would not use any healing prayers, just use mend ailment and rebirth.
Get runes for Marksmanship, beastmastery and expertise. If you want all four attributes, you will not be able to maximize any one stat.
What I did, was have Expertise: 2, Marksmanship 12, Beastmastery 12, Wildernes Surivial 4. Using minior runes and a mask.
I don't have a build for you, but if you look for a pure Ranger build (including beastmaster build) you can come up with something to your liking.
Good luck, and have fun.
Sha Noran
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Originally Posted by Pick Me
What I did, was have Expertise: 2, Marksmanship 12, Beastmastery 12, Wildernes Surivial 4. Using minior runes and a mask.
... Please, please, do not disregard your Primary Attribute (Expertise) like that.
Mahdi: There are a large variety of builds and attribute spreads already here in this forum board, and I'd encourage you to browse through them and see if you can find something there that looks good.
Mahdi: There are a large variety of builds and attribute spreads already here in this forum board, and I'd encourage you to browse through them and see if you can find something there that looks good.
Amy Awien
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Originally Posted by Pick Me
you will not be able to maximize any one stat.
What I did, was have Expertise: 2, Marksmanship 12, Beastmastery 12, Wildernes Surivial 4. Using minior runes and a mask. Maximizing any one stat is frequently not a good idea, since the cost increases when there are more ranks in a stat, while the benefits grow slower.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Attribute
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Attribute_point_spending
What I did, was have Expertise: 2, Marksmanship 12, Beastmastery 12, Wildernes Surivial 4. Using minior runes and a mask. Maximizing any one stat is frequently not a good idea, since the cost increases when there are more ranks in a stat, while the benefits grow slower.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Attribute
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Attribute_point_spending
Pick Me
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
Maximizing any one stat is frequently not a good idea, since the cost increases when there are more ranks in a stat, while the benefits grow slower.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Attribute
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Attribute_point_spending Okay, first off, I mean no disrespect to Expertise. Its a good attribute in of itself, but I don't run into energy problems (rarely anyway), so I don't need Expertise to be like 12.
I don't have any runes for Marksmanship or Beastmastery, so I don't have any other points to bump up Expertise or Wilderness Survival.
With Runes, all you need is to hit the 12 mark in an attribute, so you don't waste attribute points. 12 in an attribute will give you more abilities from your skills (damage, healing, etc.), and allow your attacks to be at 100% (marksmanship at 12 will give you the full damage from your bow, anything less is a decrease in its damage; same with your pet = beast mastery).
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Attribute
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Attribute_point_spending Okay, first off, I mean no disrespect to Expertise. Its a good attribute in of itself, but I don't run into energy problems (rarely anyway), so I don't need Expertise to be like 12.
I don't have any runes for Marksmanship or Beastmastery, so I don't have any other points to bump up Expertise or Wilderness Survival.
With Runes, all you need is to hit the 12 mark in an attribute, so you don't waste attribute points. 12 in an attribute will give you more abilities from your skills (damage, healing, etc.), and allow your attacks to be at 100% (marksmanship at 12 will give you the full damage from your bow, anything less is a decrease in its damage; same with your pet = beast mastery).
Amy Awien
In general, 12 is a fine goal (though some skills have 'breakpoints' at 13 or 14), with a few runes and a mask you can easily get 3 stats on 12/13
SnipiousMax
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
Maximizing any one stat is frequently not a good idea, since the cost increases when there are more ranks in a stat, while the benefits grow slower.
I don't agree with that. If you are playing a damage build, Mark's should be 16, without question. If you are trapping, then Wilderness Survival should be 16. If you are a warrior running less than 16 in a primary attribute, you are missing out on something very very basic. To say that you should not max a stat because of declining returns is not true. Criticals, added damage, and other benefits cannot be overlooked when considering how many points to put into an attribute. Frequently maximizing one stat that forms the basis of your build is ALWAYS a good idea. There are exceptions, but they are few. You're going to have a more powerful character the fewer attributes you have your points spread in.
Amy Awien
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Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
But even if you go damage, I do question that dogma.
Pet and Bow combined, for instance, does more damage then a marksmanship-only bow.
Wilderness Survival has effective preparations, Kindle Arrows for instance adds 20 damage (@12 WS) to your arrows and Apply Poison ... 13 seconds ([email protected]) of 8 HP/sec is >100 HP, and it can be applied against multiple targets.
Quote: To say that you should not max a stat because of declining returns is not true. But it is true, no matter how often you say it is not, that the returns decline. From 0-12 every rank incremement yields approx +9% (base)damage, after 12 it's only +3.5%. It's less - and there is nothing to compensate.
Although there may be builds where it is ok, blindlyopting for 16 in a weapon stat is not a good idea. It is not my opinion that one should not (as in never) maximize a stat, just that maximizing should not be automatic.
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I'm not denying the declining returns... I'm just saying that shouldn't be your only reason not to max an attribute.|
Frequently maximizing one stat that forms the basis of your build is ALWAYS a good idea. There are exceptions, but they are few.
Maximizing one stat is certainly not a good idea if the basis of your build is in multiple stats. Many builds have important skills that are linked to more then one or two attrbiutes. Quote:
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Retrieved from "http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Marksmanship" |
You'll notice that there are three things it mentions in the description of the Marksmanship attribute. You've only acknowledged one of them. So I'd start reading here. In addition to the increase in base damage, you also enjoy an increased percentage to Critical hits, and increased damage from Marksman skills. Base damage is increased in diminishing returns... but it IS increased.
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Quote: But even if you go damage, I do question that dogma.
Pet and Bow combined, for instance, does more damage then a marksmanship-only bow. Yes, but a dedicated beastmaster or a dedicated bowman can maintain the damage output much longer than a hybrid. My earlier edit got lost in a system error, but I had intended to go back and acknowledge the hybrid exceptions. They deal more damage initially, but as their energy drops, the damage output drops as well. It depends on the scope of the comparision which will deal more damage.
Quote: Originally Posted by Amy Wilderness Survival has effective preparations, Kindle Arrows for instance adds 20 damage (@12 WS) to your arrows and Apply Poison ... 13 seconds ([email protected]) of 8 HP/sec is >100 HP, and it can be applied against multiple targets. Apply poison does not need many points at all in Wilderness survival to be an effecitve means of damage dealing. Apply poison is usually something you use when you're doing something else (ie... cripshot). If you are playing an apply ranger, you usually tab through targets, spreading the poison, and so the duration does not have to be very long to be effective. But really you have to have a very good primary function for apply to be super effective. Just tabbing through poisoning things isn't neccesarily a function in of itself.
Kindle, I'm not fond of. Especilaly if that is your only reason for bring wilderness survival. One it deals damage in packets rather than +damage, and as such is reduced by armor (so the actual damage gained is misleading). Second, If you are specing for damage, again you have to look at the scope. Putting 12 points into wilderness means that you have to drop Marks or expertise or both. If you drop marks, the base damage drops, your bow attacks + damage drops, and your critical attack rate drops. If you drop expertise then you cannot maintain your damage as long. If you do both, then the negatives aren't as bad, but there's twice as many of them. Since most Rangers keep Expertise at the break points... that means your dropping it from Marks. Rather than split your points evenly into two attributes to deal damage. Why not pile them into one, use RtW and avoid the problems mentioned? In nearly every comparision I've done, the damage gained or lost from either option is negligible, so why even bother spliting yoru attributes like that for little to no gain, or even a loss? Practice is very different than theory.
Quote: Originally Posted by Amy Although there may be builds where it is ok, blindlyopting for 16 in a weapon stat is not a good idea. It is not my opinion that one should not (as in never) maximize a stat, just that maximizing should not be automatic. Of course it shouldn't be done Automaticly. Neither should blindly opting not to put 16 in an attribute for an imagined gain. You should have a reason for spreading your attributes, and it should be a good one. Something that gives you noticable improvement in areas that would be hindered otherwise. There are several notable Ranger builds where a max stat isn't needed (ie... Cripshot Ranger, Choking Gas Ranger, etc.) But those are builds set to fill a certain role. In a normal everyday situation, you need to look at what you'll be doing most of the time. If it's auto-attacking or using bow attacks... then it should only lead that most of your points should be backing that function. If it's dancing around droping traps... then again, it should be reflected in your attributes.
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A hybrid can maintain a high damage output indefinately and I don't see how one can maintain longer then that? I've played a hybrid and never got into energy problems.|
Originally Posted by Amy
You'll have to weigh different options and their benefits, and not just blindly maximize one stat.
I couldn't agree more. But I've found that making my stats equal across the boards really doesn't get me much in the way of utility, while seriously crippling my offensive contribution. Quote:
As I never stated that maximizing a single stat is always out of the question. I do question the dogma of maximizing marksmanship.
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Quote: Apply poison does not need many points at all in Wilderness survival to be an effecitve means of damage dealing. Apply poison is usually something you use when you're doing something else (ie... cripshot). If you are playing an apply ranger, you usually tab through targets, spreading the poison, and so the duration does not have to be very long to be effective. It is when you stay with one target that you don't need a long duration, since the poison will be apllied again and again. It is when you cycle through targets that I think you'd want a longer duration on your posion.
Quote: Kindle, I'm not fond of. ... One it deals damage in packets rather than +damage, and as such is reduced by armor (so the actual damage gained is misleading). Packets? What do you mean by that? It really doesn't matter that you get more, smaller numbers 34+20 still equals 54 and that is more then 51
The only thing I can think where seperate damage-packets are less usefull then one big one, is with damage reduction. And warrior damage-reduction applies only on physical damage and not on elemental.
RtW's bonus is armor ignoring damage, while Kindle's is not, that is true. But, basedamage is also affected by armor and the gain you had from a higher marksmanship is reduced. And conditions totally ignore armor. What is best depends on what you expect to encounter.
Quote: Second, If you are specing for damage, again you have to look at the scope. Putting 12 points into wilderness means that you have to drop Marks or expertise or both. If you drop marks, the base damage drops, your bow attacks + damage drops, and your critical attack rate drops. If you drop expertise then you cannot maintain your damage as long. See above for some numbers. A high WS Kindle gains 10 dmg compared to RtW, which is more then enough to compensate for the loss in basedamage.
There is no need to drop expertise, as the gain from decreasing marks by 2 or 3 points (from 16) is enough to increase WS from (near) nothing to medium-high.
Quote: If you do both, then the negatives aren't as bad, but there's twice as many of them. That is bullshit-reasoning.
Quote: In nearly every comparision I've done, the damage gained or lost from either option is negligible, so why even bother spliting yoru attributes like that for little to no gain, or even a loss? I haven't seen your comparisions yet.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding your initial post... but I'm sorry that one line is what sparked my intrest in the discussion to begin with. If that is not the case, then I apologize. Had the line said something along the lines of "is not always" or "sometimes", I proballly wouldn't have posted at all. Granted, my reply contained an equally polar comment... one I should have phrased better. But I still maintain, that there is more to be gained from maxing than your subsequent posts have stated.|
Practice is very different than theory.
Another meaningless statement that can be used to 'prove' or 'disprove' anything you want and we can all make any claim we like about 'in practice'. Theory is the only thing we can use (on this board) because very few people have the background to do reliable measurements 'in practice'. When we use the known numbers at least we have something we can validate for ourselves. Quote:
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Quote: I doubt you have examined and tested every hybrid possible so I do not see how you can make such a generalized claim. I've played with hybrids, I know they can do a load of damage and they do not (have to) run out of energy. I haven't. But I've run alot of them, and I run them often. It requires alot of micromanaging to make sure you don't run out of energy too quickly, but you are nearly always running on an deficiet, where with many of the focused builds I've played, I can easily finish an entire mission without having to stop at all or having to conserve my energy use.
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It is when you stay with one target that you don't need a long duration, since the poison will be apllied again and again. It is when you cycle through targets that I think you'd want a longer duration on your posion.
The cycles occur quicly enough that it really doesn't need a long duration. You can easily have a 16/9/11 spread, so the duration is hardly a reason to sacrifice marks. Quote:
No, not really. Tiger's Fury itself is expensive at 10E, reduced to 5E, every 10 seconds, but still only half your regen. Enraged Lunge is only 5E, 2E with 13 expertise, every 5 seconds.
And even if energy gets thin, it's skill selection and usage that is the problem, I don't see how incrementing expertise beyond 13 (14 tops) would help a build with mostly 5E and 10E Quote: Quote:
which seems more usefull as general advice.
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