Renewal or echo nuker?
Sauron the Evil
I've researched both types,but can't come to a conclusion of whether to go renewal or echo. Which is better and more used nowadays? Any insight would be appreciated.
LightningHell
IMO, Renewal because you get Meteor Shower back in 15s. I don't like waiting for two minutes for that ele to get Meteor Shower back up.
daky
renewal basically same thing as echo only quicker recharge. and to me quicker recharge means all the more dmg 
Scourgey
Echo is only better on skills with less than 15 second recharge over gylyph of renewal. I.e. you would be able to spam immolate or fireball a lot, then use echo.
You could use arcane echo and gylph of renewal for 3 meteor showers in a row!
You could use arcane echo and gylph of renewal for 3 meteor showers in a row!
Bez L
Renewal is way better IMO..some people love mixing echo and archane echo, but simply GoR rules by far. You can use it every 10 (or is it 15?) seconds, you can use it before ANY spell. I use it before casting attunements in case they're stripped, if meteor shower is not right at the time us it with rodgorts, fireball etc.
As for the chaining three showers...isn't it better to have a shower available forever? with showers 6 sec cast time there's hardly much of a wait b4 you can glyph again.
Meteor shower every 20 seconds or three in a row every couple of minutes? hmm...
also makes the exhaustion much more bearable.
As for the chaining three showers...isn't it better to have a shower available forever? with showers 6 sec cast time there's hardly much of a wait b4 you can glyph again.
Meteor shower every 20 seconds or three in a row every couple of minutes? hmm...
also makes the exhaustion much more bearable.
Ira Blinks
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Originally Posted by Scourgey
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You could use arcane echo and gylph of renewal for 3 meteor showers in a row!
that combo also involves glyph of sacrifice on last shower... Anyway Im not a big fan of multiple MS simply because they dont do that much damage and you still stack with recharge after casting them. GoR alone is way more useable in the long run, plus its not an enchant and can not be stripped while you casting MS
Kenji Akatsuki
if im running ms spam, renewal definately, but echo only when im running energy management with rodgorts or ms
Shred Dread
Use glyph of renewal, unless you want some other skill as your elite...in that case, use Arcane Echo.
zling
just use arcane echo and get a good energy management elite such as ele attunement, combine with fire to get dual attuned and than you wont have energy problems while spamming your meteor showers and other fire spells...
LightningHell
You can't spam meteor showers with Arcane Echo...
squan
i love renewal, btw i for example if you go to fow and bring renewal you can use essence bond on main tank, so you also have energy management.
Mouse at Large
Personally, in PvE I'm running a dual attune setup and find I have few energy management problems with a full fire skillbar (inc MS, Rodgorts and Incendiary Bonds)+AoR for both the recovery and a cover enchant.
With a 20/20 +20 longer enchants, it sems to work fine for me. Sometimes I sub out AoR for a res sig, but that depends on the situation. My advice would be to try them out and see what suits your playstyle.
Fluffyx
Echo is an enchantment.
Can be stripped. Can be interupted easier. Has a long cooldown. The upside is that it can copy ANY skill. Renewal cannot be stripped. It is harder to interupt It has a shorter cooldown The downside is that it does not copy every skill. I used to always go with echo but i'm thinking renewal its better nowadays. Since you're not really needing the ability to copy any skill. Echo is still a powerful skill none the less.
S_Serpent
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Originally Posted by Scourgey
You could use arcane echo and gylph of renewal for 3 meteor showers in a row! |
lol, I so like to read this. I'll tell you can even throw 4 meteor showers and with some timing even 5 (but I'll let you figure it out
). And no, I'm not out off energy after those 5, I can keep it up for a while (to bad the exhaustion limits this ).And no I'm not using Glyph of Sacriface in my build :P
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Originally Posted by Lightinghell
You can't spam meteor showers with Arcane Echo...
Oh no? Try it and you'll be surprised, I was when I figured it out.
Maria Moon
ok,...though glyph of renewal is bettet when it comes to spamming meteor, i dont cause only one or two people seemed to mention usage of other skills i can tell u know that the "average" foe hit with 2 meteor showers and then with a rodgarts invocation would be if not flat out dead in critical condition what i basically am trying to say is that though GoR can cast mutiple meteor showers faster u cant expect to go running around blasting everyone in sight with meteor shower.BUT i will admit that being able to cast multiple meteor shower quickly can be to a player "advantage" and yes it is not an enchantment so cannot be stripped,..but with arcane echo if u play your cards right u wont have much problem with people stripping ur enchant the whole time (tough it can happen)and id that does happen just cast metoer shower and use your other skill, after thats what they are there for.
But in the end it really comes down to your playing style and what u feel comforatble with and in the end as long as you kill the enemies effienctly really
HolyHawk
I actually think that neither should be your choice. You get to do a bigger and constant dmg output using both attunements and spamming rodgort's invocation and fireball. I just pray for a faster recharge, while I keep using those. Honestely, I dont really see the ruckus over echo and renewal. Just my opinion =p
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by HolyHawk
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Originally Posted by S_Serpent
Oh no? Try it and you'll be surprised, I was when I figured it out.
2 echos = you can use 3 Meteor Showers consecutively, then wait for around 44 seconds. Not exactly spamming.
Also, you can't really spam Meteor Shower due to exhaustion, long casts, and long recharge. Whether you're on Renewal or Echo.
Buns United
What's this all about anyway, ask yourself, seriously! It seems like elementalists in PvE have found two (only two) effective builds
 amazingly people still concern about energy management in these builds.If you'd want to try something entirely new.. try this: Auspicious Incantation Glyph of Renewal Fire Attunement Meteor Shower Rodgort's Invocation Arcane Echo «Basicly Renewal on Meteor Shower, to gain back energy cast Arcane Echo; Rodgort's Invocation; Glyph of Renewal (cuts down AI recharge by 25secs); Auspicious Incantation and Rodgort's Invocation (echoed version).» ...anyway back to topic, in my opinion you should just figure what works best for you Vote 'Yes' for Bunnies© as Pets!
Undressed
The idea of spamming "meteor shower" multiple times is absurd. I've never experienced any single area where "nuking" wasn't enough nor would I feel comfortable with loads of exhaustion. With 2 Eles, what more would you need? Seriously, I notice some Eles cast their showers several times in a row, then run up, stand in them, obviously having a deep sexual feeling.
Incendiary Bonds Fireball Invocation of Rodgort Meteor Shower Arcane Echo Glyph of of Energy [E] Fire Attunement Rez Signet works just fine and does enough damage.
Buns United
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Originally Posted by Undressed
The idea of spamming "meteor shower" multiple times is absurd. I've never experienced any single area where "nuking" wasn't enough nor would I feel comfortable with loads of exhaustion. With 2 Eles, what more would you need? Seriously, I notice some Eles cast their showers several times in a row, then run up, stand in them, obviously having a deep sexual feeling.
Incendiary Bonds Fireball Invocation of Rodgort Meteor Shower Arcane Echo Glyph of of Energy [E] Fire Attunement Rez Signet works just fine and does enough damage. Bit high recharge costs though, seems as if you're either really afraid that mobs have Spirit of Equinox or just don't see that in order to do damage you need it spammable. Exhaustion goes back quick enough even with renewal Meteor Shower... ..Stupid thing is, the most usefull (to most people in PvE) fire elemental spell is meteor shower, don't think you'll want 60 second recharge on that. Vote 'Yes' for Bunnies© as Pets! Hollerith
Main selling point of Glyphing MS is that I control how often it's cast. I can essentially cast it whenever it's useful to. You don't have that with the echos because you're committed to casting another one or two MS's within the next 20 seconds, and then have a 40 second cool down time when no MS's can be cast.
Xavier Lightstone
If you are going to echo, then echo Rogdort's Invocation, no exhaustion, no scatter (ok, no knockdown, but then you should use glyph with MS)
S_Serpent
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Originally Posted by LightningHell
2 echos = you can use 3 Meteor Showers consecutively, then wait for around 44 seconds. Not exactly spamming.
Also, you can't really spam Meteor Shower due to exhaustion, long casts, and long recharge. Whether you're on Renewal or Echo. Seems to me you'll have to find the right skill combo! I throw max 5 of them one after the other in 32 sec, mostly 4 in about 27 sec though since for 5 your timing is more crucial (and in this form the 27 casting sec are already making sure your original MS will be recastable in about 33 sec after finishing this cluster of MS's). I made my own build, and my guildies now use it too, nobody believed it before I showed it to them. And I said before that exhaustion is my only downfall in this build, but still I'm capable of throwing 3 clusters of 4 showers very short after one another (I mean in the time my last MS has recharged, most of my energy is back aswell with 4 energy pips, but you'll deplete it after those clusters, but in that time the enemies shouldn't be there anymore).
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by S_Serpent
Seems to me you'll have to find the right skill combo! I throw max 5 of them one after the other in 32 sec, mostly 4 in about 27 sec though since for 5 your timing is more crucial (and in this form the 27 casting sec are already making sure your original MS will be recastable in about 33 sec after finishing this cluster of MS's).
I made my own build, and my guildies now use it too, nobody believed it before I showed it to them. And I said before that exhaustion is my only downfall in this build, but still I'm capable of throwing 3 clusters of 4 showers very short after one another (I mean in the time my last MS has recharged, most of my energy is back aswell with 4 energy pips, but you'll deplete it after those clusters, but in that time the enemies shouldn't be there anymore). I'd need to get numerical proof before I believe that. Xioden
00 Glyph of Renewal
01 Meteor Shower #1 06 Delay 2 seconds for Glyph of renewal recharge 08 Arcane Echo 10 Meteor Shower #2 15 Wait for Glyph of Renewal to finish recharging 16 Glyph of Renewal 17 Echoed MS #1 22 Echoed MS #2 27 = Done casting I'm not seeing how you can really squeeze a fifth shower in 32 seconds. You could go nuts though, bring a BiP necro, Bring Arcane Mimicry and have someone else bring Glyph of Renewal or Echo as their elites, minus the 50+ exhaustion from it that would render you pretty crippled for a bit, would be interesting. That aside, In PvE at least, you don't want to chain them together that quickly as you want to avoid triggering AI scatter from area damage. [edit] The fifth MS could actually come before hand.. Use Glyph, wait 10 seconds, cast MS and then go into the rest of the combo above, though this would be 42 seconds from start to finish, although you could precast if you so chose to, which would deliver the 5 MS's in 32 seconds, But once again, see the two above points: Exhaustion and scatter.[/edit]
S_Serpent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xioden
00 Glyph of Renewal
01 Meteor Shower #1 06 Delay 2 seconds for Glyph of renewal recharge 08 Arcane Echo 10 Meteor Shower #2 15 Wait for Glyph of Renewal to finish recharging 16 Glyph of Renewal 17 Echoed MS #1 22 Echoed MS #2 27 = Done casting I'm not seeing how you can really squeeze a fifth shower in 32 seconds. You could go nuts though, bring a BiP necro, Bring Arcane Mimicry and have someone else bring Glyph of Renewal or Echo as their elites, minus the 50+ exhaustion from it that would render you pretty crippled for a bit, would be interesting. That aside, In PvE at least, you don't want to chain them together that quickly as you want to avoid triggering AI scatter from area damage. [edit] The fifth MS could actually come before hand.. Use Glyph, wait 10 seconds, cast MS and then go into the rest of the combo above, though this would be 42 seconds from start to finish, although you could precast if you so chose to, which would deliver the 5 MS's in 32 seconds, But once again, see the two above points: Exhaustion and scatter.[/edit] You got the chain there, and about the fifth one its before the cycle so you cast your Enchantments, Glyph pre engagement and then start the MS + cycle (=32 sec - true I didn't count the Glyph cast time and recharge time in here since they are just like the enchantments pre battle casting options). And sorry if my post would have sound with some kind off air, but I like to have people really think about something before giving them the answer, thats how I like it myself. I already agreed about the exhaustion as the weak point, because you drain yourself after a few cycles. I hope I don't have to go deeper on the scattering effect in PVE, just use it to your advantage. I never mentioned you need to cast 4/5 showers on the same target (mostly 2 are more then enough for a nice quick kill off mobs PVE way and do not have to scatter 'em, if applied correctly). Even about running into your own casted MS, I has its reasons, maybe some will call it noob, but here the scatter effect really rocks. I've used this defensive to from time to time, personal I like bed of coals better for this I like the elementalist as my primary proffession and char, even after getting hit by the A.net nerf bat. I simply like them the best, in my humble opinion.
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by S_Serpent
You got the chain there
That's Glyph, not Echo. Echo implies the elite, Echo {E}, not Arcane Echo.
S_Serpent
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Originally Posted by LightningHell
We were talking about the possibility of spamming MS, which I prove to be possible with Renewal. Echo (indeed the Elite skill, duh ) is another thing, indeed.
S_Serpent
Oh and if you like the fire ele, just have go at it, you like it just like me.
Or go wild and explore the earth or water line, ele's are fun.
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Serpent
Echo (indeed the Elite skill, duh ) is another thing, indeed. |
Oops, I think my definition of spam is a bit different than yours. I intend to spam it till no tomorrow, so...I don't think that's possible.
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Oh and if you like the fire ele, just have go at it, you like it just like me. Or go wild and explore the earth or water line, ele's are fun. My main, since May 2005, was my ele....I'm not awfully attracted to the Fire line though.
S_Serpent
Seems we started at the same time then
I'm glad there are still people that like the ele's alot, because otherwise we shouldn't be posting here eh. There is a big difference in spamming stone daggers to meteor shower, but yeah MS is 5x as costly as stone daggers for example. So to me yes 4/5 MS's is spamming them. But according to your post and my feelings (could be wrong) you where happy with 3 tops, ah as long as you have fun, thats whats most important imo. Cheers
Ic Zero
echo+arcane echo allows you to use shower 3 times in a row and renewal allows you to use it once every 15 secs......renewal if you ask me
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Serpent
Seems we started at the same time then
I'm glad there are still people that like the ele's alot, because otherwise we shouldn't be posting here eh. There is a big difference in spamming stone daggers to meteor shower, but yeah MS is 5x as costly as stone daggers for example. So to me yes 4/5 MS's is spamming them. But according to your post and my feelings (could be wrong) you where happy with 3 tops, ah as long as you have fun, thats whats most important imo. Cheers Yup, I'm happy with 3 tops. Also, I play a Air/Ward Prodigybot in PvP...I never bother changing from GvG to PvE. Except when I'm solofarming. :P
Tainek
The biggest problem with MS is the exaustion, if you cast it more than every 30 seconds, you will stack up exaustion, and eventually it will catch up with you and you'll have to Cast Less often than every 30s to let your Exaustion run out, or even stop casting entirly
5* Exaustion= 150 Seconds to clear (2 and a half Mins) , so after two combos of this, you'll be down to 20 energy roof, and it'll take 300s To clear (5 Mins) (All Approximate) Personally , i *Much* Prefer an Echo'd Fireball, while to do the same damage you must use 30 energy, not 25 , it also doesnt get wasted if the first wave kills your targets, or if the aggro spreads. i consider the lack of exaustion a decent tradeoff for the lack of exaustion it doesnt cripple you with exaustion (Constant DPS) it can be maintained fairly constantly (Immolate ect can be used when echo runs out) 16 Fire 13 Energy Storage (Or) 16 Fire 11 energy Storage (Enough Points left over for 8/8+1 in anouther attribute) (Ward?) (Self Heal?)(E-Management?) Fireball, Echo, Immolate, Fire Attument, -Open- -Open- -Open- Rez No Easy to Own 5 Second Cast, and more versatile and long lasting
S_Serpent
And still I prefer the MS build in Urgoz Warren.
And about solofarming, I currently use it to refill my skillpoint pool for Nightfall and for the other benefits too. But to remain on topic, my personal taste is renewal above echo. The build you use however will always determine which is the better one to have in combination. |
