Master's Reward for missions in Cantha

I've been thinking about this for some time now and I'd like to know others' oppinions on this...

Personally I think the time limit for mission bonuses (masters etc) really really really sux...
Where is the tactics gone? Doing canthan missions I felt like being in some kind of Hack&Slash, with all the "Faster!" and "Rush!" attitude and I missed the way its sorted out in Tyria. Bonuses in Prophecies made it possible to complete missions WITH bonuses with a virtually any team (even with Henchies only), as long as it had some sort of tank and some sort of healer - the key was tactics. Not to mention that it gave players possibility to anwser a phone or go to Restroom if needed... Now, in Cantha its all about dealing huge ammount of damage in the shortest time and RUNNING! Hello? Tactics? Skill? Fun? Equal chances for classes like Mesmers who ain't straight damage dealers? ....

So what do you think about it?

This has been discussed more often already, and you're not the only one who think it's not the best idea. Though getting through quickly does require some tactics though

Being timed ALWAYS sucks, and this is no exception.

There is one mission that's the exception to the rule, and getting the master's reward there is one of the hardest: Gyala Hatchery.
It really does help sort the men from the boys so to speak.

Timed missions are a double edged sword. On one hand, I like the fact that the missions won't last for hours while everyone takes their sweet time. On the other hand having to rely on the whole team to blast through without stopping to scavange all the loot dropped (viznuah square for example) and stop to open every, chest even if it's purple, can make it tough to get masters.

I dunno, I guess I'm on the fence about this.

Hatchery's easy, especially if you use hax skills and go around

The eternal grove also isn't timed, but bad things happen there...

Time limits make me not afk

Considering factions is more PvP based, it does require skill to get masters on every mission. Timed missions require a wonderful thing called energy management which does sort out the good from the bad. In Tyria, you could take on a group then wait for ever to replenish your energy which you lost in the first 5 seconds of battle. That doesn't teach you anything about the game or how to play properly.

QFT , Masters Seperates the Men from the Boys As far as Monks and Other High pressure Casters goes

Wrong. People I've seen try for masters sometimes don't have the faintest clue and if the monks and the team are good they get CARRIED through instead of gaining player skill.

You only need 5/8 for the missions, really.

I didn't mind the timing, with a good team they're easily beatable. Gyala master was one of the most fun ones though, as the timed missions are just .... doing the mission, without really any extra effort.

Bonuses are easier. I like the timed mission aspect. I think the methods of Prophacies and Factions should be combined (if you do a bonus, you get a time bonus for the mission to help it get under a certain time faster).

Bonus, to me, just means more time to go back and redo the mission. It's basically just a second mission within the mission (mostly). Masters means you have to have some good communication and skill going on, which lets me put those with Prot of Cantha title at a higher regard than Prot of Tyria.

hm, not sure about the title thingy since my necro only needs to go and do zen to get it while she needs to finish 5 others in tyria.....cantha was easy for her being a mm.......
for me, dont like being timed.....same as OP....its hard to answer the door when the group is yelling run run we have only 2 minutes left!!! granted it makes it harder to do with henchies.

I really really really hate the time thing in cantha missions.

Timed missions is for the competetive kids with a Counterstrike background.

Mission Bonus is for people with a standard RPG background that don't see the point or skill in rushing things.

Obviously I'm in the last group.

Noone said it was the epitome of skill that required the entire 8 man party to work together in perfect harmony like a well oiled machine and just maybe you'll get through.

I apologize if it has been discussed but the "Search feature" on this forum still remains a myth to me...

@JAFO2RHh
When I came to Cantha I also thought at first time limit isn't so bad becouse I won't spend hours in there... But I don't think so anymore.

Firstly, becouse I generally HATE time limits in any game and I belive it's just the easiest solution a desinger can give: no ides? Time limit. :/
Secondly, I play Mesmer - only. And I'd really like the Masters, but somehow... noones taking Mesmers to parties? They always prefer a Nuker or annother Monk/Necro instead... Thats frustrating, and I think anyone playing Mesmer or Assasin knows the feeling. Of course I have friends and Guild to help me out but they are all busy working ppl, not onlin for too much and I know there are other things they'd like to do.

Avarre, you said "just doing the misison"... Thats the prob for me... This "Mission" is just killing countless mobs like.. I don't know... Mu Online? Nah, too slow.. Um.. I don't know what game I can give as example, but its all about a rush, and than you see you missed 30 sec for masters. I had 5 seconds once and though I'm a peaceful creature, I thought I'll destroy something.

I don't mind the timed bonus standards much. What annoys me are newbies that don't understand the mission yet burdening parties. Also equally annoying are people that claim to make a master group when they are pretty clueless.

It rare to find a pug group capable of reaching bonus on some missions.

That's your interpretation, and I can see why you might have a problem. For me, I move to kill the next group as soon as I drop the one I'm fighting, so it doesn't feel like a rush to me. Anything else, standing around etc, feels too slow. That is, unless I'm just casually doing missions with friends etc, in which case I don't care about the rewards

Anyways about mesmering, I did Raisu again today with 2 mesmers in team, mastered it without too much trouble. Building the team and knowing people to come help is key.

The OP said it: All prophecies required was a tank and a monk. Gee Gee tactics.

Now Catha is more exciting. How about bringing Charge! ? Or other fast dmg dealers ( assassins ). Involves more tactics IMO.

Prophecies PvE = Turn-based strategy game à la Advance Wars.

Cantha = C&C

I know and you know and other Mesmers know WE can do it...
Unfortunatelly people building teams don't... So um.. yeah... friends. What if you're a loner?

@Yanman.be I ment you had to have those in your team... But Ive done Hells Prec w/o any tank (i dont mean "no warrior", but no character with a tank-build - yes, we had 2 Mesmers :P) I dont agree canthan style requires more tactics - except for few missions, its just tank -> nuke -> proceed -> tank...

Fixed.

Oh and playing a mesmer going for Legendary Survivor, I'm always aiming for masters to squeeze out every last bit of exp. I have no trouble getting into those groups.

faction master rewards sure are a challenge, but prophecies bonus' were more fun.

i have a slow net, meaning i mostly load around a min or something around that longer than the others, meaning they will want to wait for one of their monks to load before starting - this did cost me some master rewards at some point, and im feeling kinda dumb that im the reason the team failed. ;(

with the time system, it depends on way too much luck in my opinion. for example, when i did the temple for my last master reward, and our ritual lord set spirits, and suddenly togo was stuck in them.

then there is the BIG problem of one going afk, or getting err 7'd resulting in the team falling apart. one goes, one follows, next one, and so on. in proph, you could do most of these with pretty much half the team missing, took some time and skills but it was still possible.

another thing in factions...

master teams:

War
War
MM
SS
Monk
Monk
Ele
Ele

space for anything else? not really. assasins are totally NOT wanted (which i really dont understand, i always love to take one considering they know what to do), rits..maybe if they are a rit lord and the mission lacks of monks (well, except eternal and gyala, very welcomed there), rangers..meh, can be better, maybe put them for one ele, or as trapper at gyala/eternal. mesmer? omgwtfbbq never -.-. i DID enjoy playing without MM EVERY SINGLE time in proph, even having a mes now and then, which is too rare already anyways!

the timer forced people to be even lamer. of course, you could just get a guild team, but looking at it.

my guild when only proph was out = everyone was helping everywhere
my guild when factions came out = nobody was helping, everyone was strongly denying master rewards.

i got my prot of cantha two days ago, and was forced to use those lame groups for 9/13 missions (not vizunah, henchies ftw, raisu, as i was helping guildies and a random pug, we still managed it, without mm, without ss, without a nuker, just because i was rushing and evading every possible thing lol , zen daijun, and minister chos - self explonotary). its really depressing and was stressing and annoying me out more than any other thing in gw. chances for actually balanced groups? nope, wasnt even a slight chance for it.

short summary:

challenging? - yes
less fun and more annoying? - yes

>.>

Prophecies bonus: more content to explore... often just trying to figure them out on my own was half the fun. Bonuses could be done on just about any characters, with henchies.

Canthan bonus: no new content. Just doing the same thing over and over until you get the bonus. When you have many characters and have already done the missions many times... this does not seem like fun. And yes, I hate timed missions. Masters groups seem to always want a MM... making things even more boring and repetitive.

All of which is why I never tried to get the Canthan title. I have better things to do.

I was very lucky then, My Assassin is the only my Char got Protector of Cantha Title. Assassin isn't completely useless in a master group. but it need an Assassin that its skillfulness are beyond the skillfulness of other member of a master group.

The hate of Assasssin still plaque Cantha more then Afflicted disease lol. however, because of these hate, people have little expectation of assassin. they consider you good if you don't die 1 more times then their tank and not at the backline being a leacher. people are happy to continue the game with you.

personally I think ANet should rethink which mission should have bonus and other that can be a time attack. mission like VIzunah Square is totally inappropriate for having time attack as master reward simply because there is no way someone can choose the other side. regardless how good your team are, if the other side screwed, you screwed too. this is totally unfair for those who seek the title.

Do you realize you have the choice of whether or not to get masters? If you don't want to build a group capable of doing it, then don't expect to get it. Period.

I find that the timed missions are a case of 6 of one half a dozen of the other sort of thing.

I play a monk, which is hard to do when people want to rush and there is no time to regen energy. However, I found that a great number of players seems to play much smarter, and far fewer near wipes have been had in the Cantha missions. You would think, that having more time would make players use that time wisely and not make them so careless. I have found the opposite to be true though.

I have found that because of the timers on the missions, while people hurry through them, they tend to be far more careful because they can't afford the time a near total party wipe would cost them in getting the mission done.

While I liked the old style missions and bonuses, some of them could take a great deal of time to complete, especially with a bad party. At the same time, I never liked the feeling of being rushed which is something that I sometimes feel in factions.

However, since I never get to see much more than everyone's little red health bar, I can't say that I'm missing out by having the missions move faster.

It's a tough call really, but I can say it's been interesting overall. It would be nice to see Nightfall do a little of all the types of missions.

Going through Cantha is awesome for a monk. I've never had a more enjoyable experiance. Prophecies was a yawn fest. Kill one group, wait for everyone to regen, carefully pull another, repeat. You don't have that time in Cantha, it's rush rush rush, watch your energy, keep your team alive. Charge into that amazingly large group and come out on top, not even taking time to victory dance on their corpses before charging into the next.

It's what monking should be like. None of the garbage pulling carefully, spam every healing spell you have on everyone and hope to god they kill before your energy runs out or that necro has blood ritual/BiP.

Try bringing an assassin in Tahnnakai Temple and you will certainly get disappointed. Assassin + afflicted soul explosion = floor pizza. Anyways, these guys drive every monk crazy

The only thing that I hate about the timed missions is it means that more people will lie to get the profession they are looking for. They will say they are going for masters. They will say everything they can to get you to come along. With the bonuses people could just be pricks and change their minds part way through. More often than not the reminder they said they were doing bonus and you'll leave if not gets them to cut it out.

My guild generally goes with nuker or mesmer when we are in need of a caster pickup. Seems like a lot of pickup nukers use firestorm, even after asking them about it before starting. Just a couple days ago we managed to find a W/E that was using firestorm. They kept doing it after explaining to them the many reasons not to, grrr. Was glad when they left.

I think both are good but diffrent. I like the mission/bonus thing because its clear cut what you need to do. But I always thought it was stupid waiting around for people to regen, wasting time, because they couldnt be bothered to bring e-mangement. Plus masters doesnt have "bonus only leavers" unless they have a stopwatch with them, but then they have other problems.

I love the timed missions, even though I had to do some of them (raisu palace, tahnnakai temple) about 10 times before I beat them. I agree with people that some builds are excluded from the start though. I pity every assassin trying to get 'Protector of Cantha' because they never find a decent group (That's why I'm inclined to take them into a group now and then only to see most of them wiped away directly). For me as a monk it's generally big fun, because I really have to watch my energy bar (mesmer secondary FTW!). I like the Canthan bonus missions as well but ppl always seem to have arguments on wether to do the bonus or not, and therefore leavers are quite common. I had to beat all Ring of Fire missions with 6 players and me being the only monk *sigh*

Generally I like the idea of the more flexible reward system in Factions compared to the bonus system in Prophecies. But I agree that time isn't the best criterion in many cases. I really like Gyala Hatchery and Eternal Grove for the fact that they use a different criterion. That's the way to go!

which reminds me, is there anyone who beat the hatchery mission without using the backdoor? And if they did, HOW?

Any half decent team should be plenty able to do this if their monks are good and the warriors know the spawns. I completed with masters going the normal way, think we had two warriors (who place canisters where they advance), two monks (one spams heal area on the turtles, other heals the rest), a ranger, a MM (who stays at the turtles), a nuker and I can't quite remember the last.. Anything would suffice in the last slot except for a third monk (need more damage, not more healing).

The turtles were only attacked twice, and it wasn't too serious. I could put more effort into healing minions then healing turtles.

To the OP; timed missions suck, bonus only leavers suck. More missions like Gyala please (even if I hate doing it )

I've done it, master's reward, the standard way (no "backdoor"), with a PUG even, not a guild group. We were a bit lucky, but we made it.

Gyala Hatchery is easy to beat in standard reward. It is hard to beat on master's reward, but not impossible. And after all, masters reward is SUPPOSED to be a bit of a challenge, isn't it? If it was easy it wouldn't deserve the name.

Im pretty sure Gyala is only Masterable if you keep the five turtles alive, so it isnt always the time limit

I myself dislike being timed, however, you do not fail the mission in Cantha if you take your time. Having it being timed for Masters is fine IMO. People just need to relax and just play. If you want Masters, setup a Masters group and breeze pass the mission. If you want to take your time, mention that in the group. Just communicate and team up with the right people.

I think timed missions is a better solution than many (but not all) Bonuses in Prophecies. Face it, many of the Bonuses were just 'go here, kill that, come back'.

Timed missions aren't perfect, but yea, they seperate the men from the boys. More goal oriented missions like EG and Gyala would be nice however.

hehe that's so true.. alot of guys get carried by one or 2 good players- I really liked factions though.. especially early on before they adjusted the henches and made things easy- only people with some skill were at the end game areas.. was nice for while

I have never seen a situation where 2 Tanks drastically benifited a mission team over one with all my chars and protector titles. 1 Tank is nice to shake aggro off onto and protect casters, but two is just unnessisary (considering most wars dont understand the art of the tank).

So Masters group:
1 War
MM- Yes, MM's are almost essencial to mastery
2 Monks, or a Monk and Spirit Spam Rit (got Mastery on my Rit this way on half the missions).
4 Other "Damage Dealers" ~ 2 Eles are nice, but Barrage rangers, Mesmers, even the occasional Sin (they are actually good IN ONLY THE LAST TWO MISSIONS IN CANTHA)

Masters is only difficult if your team aggros unnessiary targets and wastes time. The only thing that makes Hench teams hard to get mastery with 100% of the time is that they attack what YOU attack, so aggro mainainance is difficult at times.