Post-GWFC Skill Balance: What do you think ArenaNet will change?

There's a 99% chance of a skill balance after the GWFC: We're overdue.

I think VoD mechanics will change, the Nightfall PvP beta changes will be officially implemented (i.e. Boon, Zealots, Aura, Earshot), and the Vampiric Skills will be hit with a 10 sec recharge.

What I want:

* Elementalist skill overhaul

* Better caster e-management

* Lower recharge on assassin shadow steps and a mild buff to the deadly arts tree

* Buffs to non-communing ritualist skills.

What I think we will get:

* +5-10 damage on a few elementalist nukes

* Minor tweaks to other unused skills

In short, no real changes to the metagame even after a major tournament.

Symbol is probably mostly right lol.

I don't think at all they'll touch stuff like Vamp Bite.

One interesting thing to see will be Debil. Shot. In the past they have been known to jump on skills that were popular in the tournament slightly. and wehat ranger in the GWFC DIDN'T carry Debil Shot?

Its some of the best Energy Denial. Compare it to Energy Burn.

Burn is 10 energy...Debil is cheaper due to expertise.

Their both not that great for Dmg - Burn relys on their energy for dmg, and Debil has the same weakness' as all projectile attacks.

Debil has a 10 recharge vs 20...

Debil was heavy pressure in some matches. I wouldn't be surprised if it was slapped with like a 5 sec longer recharge or gets the same 8 energy instead of 10 nerf that burn/surge/weariness got long ago.

I Want Vamp Touch And Bite A Spell Like Juandice Gaze And Vamp Gaze.. Obvious Resons.

I want all touch ranger skills to deal elemental dmg.

Buff Sin elites

Buff ele nukes

Can only hope they fix expertise for 2nd class skills

Buff boon sig

dunno sure I can think of others later on

Exactly Expersie Overpowers There Spearchucking build touching ect ect bite and gaze should be both skills or spells

Restore Verata's Sacrifice!

QFT.
I'm thinking more buffs than nerfs at this point. Nothing except the VoD mechanic seemed utterly broken when played in the GWFC.

I hope they do too

I'm a Necromancer primary, I'm the best damn MM, but I'm opposed to buffing Verata's Sacrifice.

Blood of the Master was buffed when Verata's Sacrifice was nerfed in order to compensate. If Verata's Sacrifice is restored, minions will be nearly invincible.

That'll make MMs from being almost required in a group to being a necessity.

I hope they give the boon signet a buff and no more nerfing to Zealots or Balthazar's Aura and I didn't like that Izzy was Admining it.

Let Me Control More Than 10 Minons

did i hear mending?

Mending will never be touched, ever. But yea I think Im going to have to go with symbol too.

i would love to see some of the older skills that people deem as worthless or skills that dont get used as much as the main ones get a buff or two.

As for skill nerfing. i honestly dont see any reason to change anything ... i mean with the buffing of some skills that no one uses. it would be creating a great avenue for countering the anoying builds..

Either a Expertise nerf on non-Ranger skills, or increased recharge time to Vamp Touch/Bite.

Buffs to unused elites.

why not just make them spells like the 2 gazes you have surely this would anoy rangers more

why is everyone calling for a nerf on touch rangers?
all you have to counter is run away and cripple/degen them to death.

anyways a few skills i think that should be changed

sprit light weapon-an eliet healing breese? which only works in sprit range?
lightning touch-just terrible
Healing burst-Bunch up men

and i think they will nerf images of remorse or buff phatom pain

all i can think of atm.

The only ritualist tree that needs a review is Channeling, if the aim is to buff a tree.

They're going to make Mending an uber elite, that takes up all 8 slots on your skillbar.

It'll STILL be overpowered then, though. :/

On a more serious note, ANet will probably nerf something like Bestial Pounce and buff IWAY, so they can win with it more (even though it has nothing to do with the GWFC, but Gaile needs her r15!)

More lame nerf cries on Expertise. Just stop.

I think a few people misunderstood the reason why so many ask for the touch ranger nerf.. and nerf is a bad word for it... change would be better

some people think "well i dont know what they are bitching about, touch rangers are easy to kill". while that is true. you misunderstand the reasoning for most people asking for the touch ranger nerf, and in the process make yourself look like an ass.

as many of us know the touch ranger is not a hard opponent to beat. but the problem is that it is the new fad for alota new players getting into pvp to use.

as such alota the pvp side of guild wars is being inundated with these touchers.

And as many of you know, pvp is not very fun withought variety, and having to face the same old lame ass (touch this, throw dirt at that whirling deffense and storm chaser out) gets really damn old.

And that folks is why so many feel the ranger toucher should be changed.

There is no need to nerf expertise it is working as intended, what should happen as most people have said is make vamp touch/bite spells at touch range and the problem will be solved without ruining expertise or the afor mentioned skills

Bah, make Vamp Bite/Touch have longer recharges, somewhere around 4-5 seconds. That way, wars/etc who just use them for a quick boost of hp or whatever, can still use them, but at the same time, it disables touch rangers to a point where they are forced to use their build in a team way, IE 4 touchers, using vamp bite/touch, once every second, so its like a line...

Wow.. uh... im going to go get some cheez its now.

As much as I love the spell, I think PD might see some changes.

I guess Ritual Lord will be beaten to death until it stops moving. It's pure spirit spamming and A-net has previously shown that they hate Spiritspamming when it prolongs a match - as ritual lord spamming does.

Then i'm quite sure spirit bond will get a severe hit to it's effectiveness. Because it is getting overly abused for farmbuilds and is more efficient than Protective Bond ever was (and that one was nerfed due to PVE).

Ether Prodigy and Blinding Flash will be hit. Just because enough people have whined about the two skills. That will stop the Elementalist Class from appearing in any GVG anytime soon, but meeeh...

My feel of what might come within a month:

*Some elementalist changes (nerf and buff); energy skills tweak, 1 elite tweak, few water or fire tweaks

*Some monk changes; divine favor, healing, smiting, protection

*Some necro changes; curses & blood

*Some ranger changes, although I feel more nerf comming than buff

*Some warrior buffs; mostly andrenline/recharge related (maybe 1 damage related)

*Some mesemer buffs; inspiration

*Some tweak to ritualist skills (not nerf or buff); some recharge changes (they better fix spirit light weapon...)

*Some assassin changes; recharge related, duration related

Long Shot Guesses:
*some mechanic change on character side*
*Some tweak in FA & JQ

I don't see VoD changing anytime too soon.

Touchers do need a change based strictly on them being over abused.
However the best way to stop not only the touch ranger but the thumpers as well is to make expertise work for ranger skills only.

IMO the primary attribute should only pay out for primary skills. You dont see divine favor pay out on all spells cast.

Assassins need their dmg set to match their armor type. atm they are a 70 al taking dmg of a 60 al. Plus they need their none elite shadowstep recharges shortened granting the assassin about 30% more mobility.

Ritualist is fine as a spirit spammer atm, its everything a RT can do to maintain the spirits which die quickly in large agros. Channeling will get a buff only if they wish to replace an elementalist.

Yes spirit bond is over abused for farming but it utilization is not much when implimented in battle. I see it going to 1 second cast to allow it interuptable in current farming areas. Thats the only change i see needed.

By far the RT vermin farmer is the #1 farmer out there. fastest solo in UW sense the pre AOE nerf 55 monk, as versital as a spirit bonding the only thing they lack is spike dmg manipulation ( I.E. Protection spirit )

Finally The necromancer. MM was in its glory day like riding a machine gun and way over powered. However they way the nerf was implimented 10 minions was about 1/3rd the prior average number of minions and the sac were jacked thru the roof for less duration. veratas sacrifice should be a standard 20 second duration max with a 30 second recharge with sac as is. BoM should have a reduction to 1% per minion with max number of minions raised to 15. this grants the MM a slightly more offensive capability while dropping there energy/sac requirments thru longer recast/refresh times and putting the MM back on level ground with other builds.
the glitch with veratas aura allowing control of more then 1 golem needs attention.

While I have accepted the MM nerf by now (God, I do still miss the 30+ Minions), the buff to BotM was nothing compared to the old VS.

The old and popular N/E VS+Glyph of Renewal could keep up VS all the time, and gave a Minion the ability to live for 4 minutes 48 second without other healing or damage taken. The total cost is ~195 En and 195% HP saccrificed to keep them up (cost of VS and GoR, used 13 times). These numbers didn't change no matter the amount of minions.
Now, BotM, trying to keep them up for the same amount of time, ~25 BotM (barely used in the beginning, more when you they get older) are needed, much harder to time:
1 Minion: 125 EN, 175% HP
10 Minions: 125 EN, 625% HP
30 Minions: 125 EN, 1625% HP
(Math: 25*5 for EN, 25*5 + 25*2*X | X = number of minions)

So, while we use less EN, we'd sac nearly 1500% more HP to keep them alive if we'd still be able to get such groups. At the 10 Limit, we got 50 EN vs 430% HP (or 2064 HP needing to be healed). Not really a good trade-off, so I'd like my old VS back. The Verata skills are pretty much garbage now. Only V's Aura is sometimes seen in Ab to steal Minions from the other group. Not really what Tyria's greatest MM had in mind I think when he made spells to prolongue the longevity of minions...

Add to that that Nightfall might bring a lot more MM hate then Factions (really sad, everthing but Stone things is Fleshy, barely Fire, safe for 2 spells no Holy damage, Corpse exploiting is nearly null). Prophecies is a lot less forgiving to MM, especially the endgame (Titans, Jades, FoW, UW, Spectral Agony = rape, etc).

While I seriosuly doubt ANet will buff it again, I'm really hoping for it.

MM is still a viable build in Factions due to the lack of ways the mobs have to stop them. Their offensive ability is fne ATM (30 was a bit much, but hellovelotta fun)


Other nerfs/buffs:
* Touching gets it after whinning
* IWAY gets another nerfs that doesn't really kill it
* Eles get buffed, then nerfed, then buffed, then nerfed again to finally be worse off then now
* SS I see getting nerfed some time soon, same for a few other Blood Magic spells with it
* Mesmers get a buff in Inspiration for better E-management, gets abused by Monks and gets nerfed again
* Rit Channeling getting a small buff
* Rangers geting nerfed in a few ways (shorter duration on Whirling I think, Barrage getting longer recharge)
* Warriors get left alone
* Sins getting a small nerf/buff on some skills

dude if they nerf an assassin then whoever gave the order to do so needs their throat slit. LOL ... J/k

I just hope that they will not nerf every skill that saw some use (as they are doing lately) and will buff underused skills to give us some alternative. I still miss updates like the one with nuking/beastmastery/ineptitude buff. It made few builds that were underused viable.

Now it's nothing strange to see inepti mesmer in arenas or fire nuker in HA.

Rt lord should take some nerf for sure - as now there is no reason to use any other rit elite (strangely - soul twisting was nerfed and rt lord not). Other rt skills coulduse some buff - elites especially. I would love to see AI buff to preservation - it would make Rt viable healer and differing from monk too.

Same goes for assasin - right now the only widely used build is AoD/GPS. Assasin has some skills that seem to be nice idea in the first place - but uneffective in practice. More elites need to be made usable. And deadly arts could definetely take some buffing.

Eles should get some buff - nothing big, but something to make few more nuking spells usable.

Monk should stay as it is I guess. Maybe little longer recharge on boon? Or minor buff to some new elites.

I fear for Mesmer - as lately anet tendency here is to make this profession illusion degener or dom interrupter. Good shutdown skills are taking nerfs (b-out ) and e-denial is now just for some pressure not real shutdown. I also hope for some Factions elite buff here (other than PD and expel ofcourse :P). Maybe viable AL? or Lyssa's aura. Power leech also could be nice with some buffing.

Warrior is fine, but I would really love to see Skulcrack usable :P

Ranger is okay - but expertise nerf on secondary skills could stop touchers and thumpers abuse. Still I'm not sure if it would be good for game.

Necro is fine as MM - still rocks in PvE. SS could scatter mobs as other nukes do - it's overpowered in PvE as it is - try making mission without SS and then with him.

What I hope they do is as many stated:

=Buff many of the new elites since almost all of them are very poor. There are 2 which are actually worst than non elite skills.
=Nerfing the Ritual Lord skill, reduce the effect, make it 1 sec cast and make it enchantment...or similar. I hope it won't be overnerfed...still usefull but not imba.
=Boosting some ele skills and elites, somehow reworking ether prodigy not to be so much imba, but somehow retaining the ele power in gvg (if the only thing they do is nerfing prodigy, then we will see 65% less eles in gvg, so I hope some tricky reworks).
=Boosting Ether Renewal to be usefull (but not imba).
=Rt needs some buff on some skill lines.
=A needs too some buff on some skill lines (deadly arts someone?)
=Of course, buffing many underused skills by little and hopefully reworking others (like Determination shot).

--I also hope for some evil bug fixes (exhaustion display bug, degen display bug, player stuckness in stairs)

Half recharge on Keystone signet damnit!

It goes deeper than just touchers. IMO they are not tough but that doesn't mean they are balanced either. Expertise is always going to create imbalances in the game as long as they have adjust energy cost of EVERY class to make sure the ranger doesn't abuse it.

Most primary skills are getting shafted because they are balanced by giving higher energy cost or higher recharges. Instead of the skills being designed for the primary class they have to be adjusted because of expertise to ensure no abuse. Players are always going to find something the devs missed.

Now that rangers have the best armor in the game you don't sacrifice anything to run that thumper, toucher, and spearthrower.


As for PD I'd have to agree. I've been running one since the FPE and always thought it was too strong. I don't think they can change it though without making it too risky to use.

Reword expertise back to what it was before the "non-spell" change, and lower health regen on IWAY, make VIM energy gain like 2 or 3, and make concussion shot 15 ernergy

Divine Favor is the only primary that works like that. Strength and Critical Strikes affect all attacks, Fast Casting all spells, Spawning Power on all spirits and minions, Energy Storage and Soul Reaping give energy period...

Okay, just like to clarify that touchers are not overpowered or anything. The need for any change should solely be motivated by increasing the diversity of enemies in fort/quarry/AB. I have been in MANY battles where the enemy team kept complaining about my poison cripshot or denial-degen while not even mentioning how annoying the touchies are.

You won't always have a degener or crippler though, especially in arenas. =/

Well said that man, but I doubt if it'll be reverted back as a-net obviously like the idea of a MM's without AotL almost killing themselves with BotM when more than 1 MM is about with 10 minions each, and yes it was a lot of fun in the pre-nerf days, especially in the FoW Spider cave