Practicle usefullness of Fire Storm?
vampireX
I still see ppl using firestorm and wonder why. Is there any real reason they should be using it? And im not talking about low level areas, im talkin about like FoW and areas where ppl are expected to be lvl20.
Terra Xin
I always try to promote the fact that scatter AoE is a good defensive tactic. But i'd never take it in FoW, it's not the place for Firestorm.
I mean if you stand in it, it works like a repelling ward, so I'll bring it just for that.
I mean if you stand in it, it works like a repelling ward, so I'll bring it just for that.
Amok Affinity
nope, not really... lava front's a lot nicer for scattering purposes, imo
Shred Dread
I agreed with Amok, lava font is the only scatter worth bringing. Early on in the game (like really early on) firestorm's ok, but once you get to the parts of the game where the character is xpcted to be lvl 20, or skilled, drop it.
I've had groups on ring of fire missions where some n00b borught firestorm and screwed everything up...grr
Seriously, if you're having trouble letting go of firestorm, then just replace it with Meteor Shower, a skill that is definitely worth having for the average pyromancer.
I've had groups on ring of fire missions where some n00b borught firestorm and screwed everything up...grr
Seriously, if you're having trouble letting go of firestorm, then just replace it with Meteor Shower, a skill that is definitely worth having for the average pyromancer.
Luciora
As stated above, Firestorm is fine for scatter purposes (though there are better spells to use for the same purpose that inflict more damage before they scatter). Personally I don't use anything that can cause scatter on a single cast. If I need the enemy to scatter, just exploit it 3 second rule on AoE damage to cause them to turn about and give you the chance to run.
My advice on ANY scatter causing spells - Inform the group that you are using said skill. It can be nice in emergencies but please DO NOT use it as a damage skill since it will dissolve the aggro pattern and cause enemy warriors to target the squishies
My advice on ANY scatter causing spells - Inform the group that you are using said skill. It can be nice in emergencies but please DO NOT use it as a damage skill since it will dissolve the aggro pattern and cause enemy warriors to target the squishies
Don Zardeone
If you're getting hit by stuff, stopping to cast a 2 second spell is a bad idea. You're better off kiting the darned thing and getting it to attack your warrior or ranger.
By making things scatter you're just bringing the danger to other partymembers, your warriors can't do their damage efficiently and ranger end up with "dodge, dodge, stray, miss"
I've been looking at monster targetting behaviour and it seems that if a monster is snared (not by ward vs foes but actually snared with something like cripple) then it will go for the closest target.
So if you can mass snare stuff then your firestorm scatter won't be that bad (have to test first).
Eh
anyone say hamstorm?
By making things scatter you're just bringing the danger to other partymembers, your warriors can't do their damage efficiently and ranger end up with "dodge, dodge, stray, miss"
I've been looking at monster targetting behaviour and it seems that if a monster is snared (not by ward vs foes but actually snared with something like cripple) then it will go for the closest target.
So if you can mass snare stuff then your firestorm scatter won't be that bad (have to test first).
Eh
anyone say hamstorm?
Hephaestus Ram
My elementalist always carries an AoE.
Not only is running not always an option, but they're great
for when you see a team mate getting overwhelmed. A few
seconds and a small gap to get through can be a lifesaver.
Firestorm my not be the best choice, but it's ok.
Not only is running not always an option, but they're great
for when you see a team mate getting overwhelmed. A few
seconds and a small gap to get through can be a lifesaver.
Firestorm my not be the best choice, but it's ok.
Insert Cool Name Here
Firestorm is great for killing NPCs in Aspenwood when you are taking mines or command points.
Luciora
ICNH - Good point, Firestorm works very well in Aspenwood on NPCs, well also works on a few warriors and rangers who don't quite get that they should be moving 
daky
I usually take two or three heavy nukes then a scatter aoe and i just chill by the monks and help keep them safe. the rest of my bar is energy managment/echo skills.
Carth`
I've seen the same - some people bring it to FoW. I asked one why, and he said he uses it after meteor shower, because when a foe is in meteor shower, he won't run. I don't think he was right, because he was making them run like crazy.
Fluffyx
Firestorm isn't a very practical spell right now. It can be useful for spreading out agro. But there are not many times when this can be useful. If you're brining this skill to FoW with an experienced group they will probably tell you not to use it. Since it will make them run out of MS or SS and just waste time.
Saraphim
Haven't used Firestorm once since I picked up Meteor Shower. For scattering warrior AI that's kicking the crap out of me I generally use Flameburst, insta-cast (more or less) and fast recharge if they don't bugger off quick enough. Actually, that one works pretty well with Vermin. I just let them all pile onto me, use Kinetic Armour and stand there setting off Flameburst.
But then I do take healer henchies, never have managed to solo my ele anywhere yet.
But then I do take healer henchies, never have managed to solo my ele anywhere yet.
Luciora
Flameburst followed by Phoenix Great for breaking aggro off of you. Works well in the lower level areas of Prophecies. You also manage to do a lot of damage then. I used it mostly in the Jungle area while exploring.
Southern shiver peaks is not quite as good, more ranged combat and those darn summit guys have WAY too much armour!
Great for breaking aggro off of you. Works well in the lower level areas of Prophecies. You also manage to do a lot of damage then. I used it mostly in the Jungle area while exploring.Southern shiver peaks is not quite as good, more ranged combat and those darn summit guys have WAY too much armour!
Zakarr
AoE scattering is nice when too many AI enemies are beating someone. The problem is that not that many realize it but keep chasing them and same time luring away from AoE even the player is low health. Some skills just need more brains from rest of the party or they are completely useless.
ubermancer
Meteor Shower + Deep Freeze + Fire Storm.
Granted, Bed of Coals would likely do a bit more.... but Fire Storm is also a scarecrow.
And funny in PvP. People ignore it - a Meteor Shower they scatter from, but Fire Storm seems to ATTRACT people, if anything.
Granted, Bed of Coals would likely do a bit more.... but Fire Storm is also a scarecrow.
And funny in PvP. People ignore it - a Meteor Shower they scatter from, but Fire Storm seems to ATTRACT people, if anything.
LiamR
Its great in AB< The 'tards don't move out the way. Well, most 'tards.
Carth`
That's true, use it on the NPCs in ABs. And players aren't as likely to run either. If they see a meteor shower they are out of it before it even begins the first knockdown, but a fire storm they will stand in it for a while, move out, run back in. lol
Don Zardeone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hephaestus Ram
My elementalist always carries an AoE.
Not only is running not always an option, but they're great
for when you see a team mate getting overwhelmed. A few
seconds and a small gap to get through can be a lifesaver.
Firestorm my not be the best choice, but it's ok. Hmm, not saying you do this but it happened before:
Had a good team together and we take a few pugs. One of them is an ele.
I, on my warrior, run in to aggro stuff. Then all of a sudden, everything runs away as a lot of little red blobs come falling down from the sky.
We tell the guy to stop firestorming but he's like "I just saved the warrior, he was getting killed!"
The thing about using aoe scatter in pve is that there's no real point in using it. If you see red dots coming your way, you should already be running away yourself. An ele or any other type of caster that gets surrounded is, simply put, a VERY bad player. (unless he uses some kind of defense with stuff like star burst or shockwaves or things like that and gets surrounded on purpose)
edit: in fact, if said bad player does that, get surrounded I mean, I wouldn't res him anymore
Not only is running not always an option, but they're great
for when you see a team mate getting overwhelmed. A few
seconds and a small gap to get through can be a lifesaver.
Firestorm my not be the best choice, but it's ok. Hmm, not saying you do this but it happened before:
Had a good team together and we take a few pugs. One of them is an ele.
I, on my warrior, run in to aggro stuff. Then all of a sudden, everything runs away as a lot of little red blobs come falling down from the sky.
We tell the guy to stop firestorming but he's like "I just saved the warrior, he was getting killed!"
The thing about using aoe scatter in pve is that there's no real point in using it. If you see red dots coming your way, you should already be running away yourself. An ele or any other type of caster that gets surrounded is, simply put, a VERY bad player. (unless he uses some kind of defense with stuff like star burst or shockwaves or things like that and gets surrounded on purpose)
edit: in fact, if said bad player does that, get surrounded I mean, I wouldn't res him anymore
Hephaestus Ram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zardeone
Hmm, not saying you do this but it happened before:
Had a good team together and we take a few pugs. One of them is an ele.
I, on my warrior, run in to aggro stuff. Then all of a sudden, everything runs away as a lot of little red blobs come falling down from the sky.
We tell the guy to stop firestorming but he's like "I just saved the warrior, he was getting killed!"
The thing about using aoe scatter in pve is that there's no real point in using it. If you see red dots coming your way, you should already be running away yourself. An ele or any other type of caster that gets surrounded is, simply put, a VERY bad player. (unless he uses some kind of defense with stuff like star burst or shockwaves or things like that and gets surrounded on purpose)
edit: in fact, if said bad player does that, get surrounded I mean, I wouldn't res him anymore
It's true that you have to know where and when to use your skills.
The dynamics of Pugging is that the people in them don't always
use good judgement, but you still have to try to salvage the
situation if you can.
I was doing Abaddon's Mouth the other day, we got past the first
two gates and someone wanted to stop to cap one of the spiders.
We got to the area where you have to cross a lava pool. There are
four Flesh Golems crossing from the other side. The warrior decides
to run across to the other side of the lava before engaging them
(bad judgement #1).
Just as he gets across, three Hydras come sprinting up like bats
outta hell. The warriors starts to head back, and the monks run
forward to try to heal him (bad judgement #2), of course the Flesh
Golems immediately switch from targeting the warrior targeting the
closest monk. A quick Seering Heat is enough to give the monks a
chance to retreat and bring the Golems with them so the rest of the
party can deal with them while the hydras snack on the warrior.
If we haden't had the AoE the warrior would have pulled the hydras
back into aggro range of the monks before they could back out, and
a bad situation would have gotten a lot worse.
I don't know how many times I've cast a Meteor Shower just to a
Firestorm start coming down a second before it starts and scatter
everything that it was targeting. So yeah... they can be APITA too.
Your example really cracked me up though, if a monk can't keep
one warrior alive through just about anything, the team is doomed
anyway.
Had a good team together and we take a few pugs. One of them is an ele.
I, on my warrior, run in to aggro stuff. Then all of a sudden, everything runs away as a lot of little red blobs come falling down from the sky.
We tell the guy to stop firestorming but he's like "I just saved the warrior, he was getting killed!"
The thing about using aoe scatter in pve is that there's no real point in using it. If you see red dots coming your way, you should already be running away yourself. An ele or any other type of caster that gets surrounded is, simply put, a VERY bad player. (unless he uses some kind of defense with stuff like star burst or shockwaves or things like that and gets surrounded on purpose)
edit: in fact, if said bad player does that, get surrounded I mean, I wouldn't res him anymore
It's true that you have to know where and when to use your skills.
The dynamics of Pugging is that the people in them don't always
use good judgement, but you still have to try to salvage the
situation if you can.
I was doing Abaddon's Mouth the other day, we got past the first
two gates and someone wanted to stop to cap one of the spiders.
We got to the area where you have to cross a lava pool. There are
four Flesh Golems crossing from the other side. The warrior decides
to run across to the other side of the lava before engaging them
(bad judgement #1).
Just as he gets across, three Hydras come sprinting up like bats
outta hell. The warriors starts to head back, and the monks run
forward to try to heal him (bad judgement #2), of course the Flesh
Golems immediately switch from targeting the warrior targeting the
closest monk. A quick Seering Heat is enough to give the monks a
chance to retreat and bring the Golems with them so the rest of the
party can deal with them while the hydras snack on the warrior.
If we haden't had the AoE the warrior would have pulled the hydras
back into aggro range of the monks before they could back out, and
a bad situation would have gotten a lot worse.
I don't know how many times I've cast a Meteor Shower just to a
Firestorm start coming down a second before it starts and scatter
everything that it was targeting. So yeah... they can be APITA too.
Your example really cracked me up though, if a monk can't keep
one warrior alive through just about anything, the team is doomed
anyway.
Yanman.be
Firestorm works really good.
As decoration.
As decoration.
jedi mad hatter
I think fire eles have really come into their own with the introduction of ABs and Competative Missions. AoE scatter works well when you want to keep AI monks from healing, since they're moving around.
ubermancer
Firestorm is great in PvP. Its viewed as a noob skill, so Warriors dont think twice about staying in Frenzy inside of it. =D [even as Im casting Rodgort's]
S_Serpent
I'll like too use Bed of Coals as a defensive skill, or go stand in you own meteorshower if for some reason you foes ran out off it
Shred Dread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth`
I've seen the same - some people bring it to FoW. I asked one why, and he said he uses it after meteor shower, because when a foe is in meteor shower, he won't run. I don't think he was right, because he was making them run like crazy.
....this story just makes me cringe...
I don't think I know of a better way to waste time and energy than to cast Firestorm after MS. I generally dislike the term "n00b", but that guy who cast Firestorm after Meteor Shower definitely qualifies.
I don't think I know of a better way to waste time and energy than to cast Firestorm after MS. I generally dislike the term "n00b", but that guy who cast Firestorm after Meteor Shower definitely qualifies.
Vladmir Mironov
Since when do people bring Firestorm into FoW?
I'm an Elementalist and never bring it and haven't really seen it brought there.
I'm an Elementalist and never bring it and haven't really seen it brought there.
Pebbles
It's very good on Oni I find.
Have you seen oni goto work on the rest of your team with that 100% chance double striking and insane amounts of melee damage as a base? Unless the group of 4 of them hits a stance warrior you are royally screwed any target will be dead before the monks can target and cast.
Firestorm is great like this tho on oni if there running in and out of firestorms there not double striking or scoring there spike combo attacks, It massivly reduces the threat large oni spawns pose to a party... terrified of the stuff even when it dose only light damage to them and there high armor I've actually seen oni abort there attacks mid-way to run from it.
It's only other use is scaring PvE monks or defending your monks if there getting mobbed by some scary spawn.
however usually I don't bring it with me unless I know there are likley to be lots of oni. breath of fire makes for a better finishing non-exaughtion nuke. As metor is also somwhat effective at dispatching sin or warrior attackers.
Have you seen oni goto work on the rest of your team with that 100% chance double striking and insane amounts of melee damage as a base? Unless the group of 4 of them hits a stance warrior you are royally screwed any target will be dead before the monks can target and cast.
Firestorm is great like this tho on oni if there running in and out of firestorms there not double striking or scoring there spike combo attacks, It massivly reduces the threat large oni spawns pose to a party... terrified of the stuff even when it dose only light damage to them and there high armor I've actually seen oni abort there attacks mid-way to run from it.
It's only other use is scaring PvE monks or defending your monks if there getting mobbed by some scary spawn.
however usually I don't bring it with me unless I know there are likley to be lots of oni. breath of fire makes for a better finishing non-exaughtion nuke. As metor is also somwhat effective at dispatching sin or warrior attackers.
convict
imo, lava font is better than firestorm is scattering aggro.
but i'd much rather use bed of coals. single second cast and
very effective repelling.
but i'd much rather use bed of coals. single second cast and
very effective repelling.
Trylo
if you're living the 2 seconds you need to cast lava font or bed of coals your foe is doing something wrong.
Double Dragon (bad elite, but an example none the less) and FlameBurst (decent) and Inferno are the only skills i want to see people using close up. starburst is kinda useless as an ele because you shouldnt be near a foe in the first place...and somehow with the short recharge people think its ok to be following a war...
how about we just figure out fire sucks?
Double Dragon (bad elite, but an example none the less) and FlameBurst (decent) and Inferno are the only skills i want to see people using close up. starburst is kinda useless as an ele because you shouldnt be near a foe in the first place...and somehow with the short recharge people think its ok to be following a war...
how about we just figure out fire sucks?
convict
your foe would be doing something wrong in PvP, in PvE i'm not so sure
they have a conscience
they have a conscience
joncoish
I used to use firestorm in conjunction with meteor shower. Cast meteor shower, cast firestorm while the mobs are being knocked down, and then fireball, but I run with henchman anyway, mainly because I don't need stupid assholes screaming at me because they take a freakin game too seriously. If someone gave me shit because I made a mistake running a mission, I'd say RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you right back!
Tay Zendreth
Interesting debate here guys. At the end of the day it all comes down to your character build, the build of the party around you and also the area you are in and the nasties you are likely to encounter.
So, where to use firestorm ?
I will always take it if I am helping people with Divinity coast bonus - the scatter effect really helps to keep the villagers alive until you can protect them properly.
Against casters like the mersaat for example, meteor shower followed by firestorm and fireball will sort out most groups before they have time to float away, but breath of fire or rodgorts is equally effective
Areas with ice imps is another where I would probably take it - drop a couple using renewal on large mobs to disrupt their casting and keep them moving while the warrs chew them up.
Finally - THK, would always take it to drop on the king if anything got through to give party time to regroup and heal him.
So, where to use firestorm ?
I will always take it if I am helping people with Divinity coast bonus - the scatter effect really helps to keep the villagers alive until you can protect them properly.
Against casters like the mersaat for example, meteor shower followed by firestorm and fireball will sort out most groups before they have time to float away, but breath of fire or rodgorts is equally effective
Areas with ice imps is another where I would probably take it - drop a couple using renewal on large mobs to disrupt their casting and keep them moving while the warrs chew them up.
Finally - THK, would always take it to drop on the king if anything got through to give party time to regroup and heal him.
Maria The Princess
i always take lava font with me in case the monk gets attaked and cornered 
Lordhelmos
Bed of coals is superior for scatter tactics. It has a low cast time and affects your location so it makes it easier to control. For example, if my monk is under heavy fire i just run to him and bed of coals the area. Enemies burn or run and take decent damage if they stick around and my monk stays happy. Firestorm just plain sucks... the damage is crap, it can totally miss your enemy, and also scatters mobs or scatter the wrong area.... someone used it in a championship game awhile back.... im not sure why. Ditch it and grab something better like breath or fire, lavafont, or bed of coals.... too bad they nerfed the bed to only burn still standing enemies.... it was god before that.
Thom Bangalter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordhelmos
Bed of coals is superior for scatter tactics. It has a low cast time and affects your location so it makes it easier to control. For example, if my monk is under heavy fire i just run to him and bed of coals the area. Enemies burn or run and take decent damage if they stick around and my monk stays happy. Firestorm just plain sucks... the damage is crap, it can totally miss your enemy, and also scatters mobs or scatter the wrong area.... someone used it in a championship game awhile back.... im not sure why. Ditch it and grab something better like breath or fire, lavafont, or bed of coals.... too bad they nerfed the bed to only burn still standing enemies.... it was god before that.
your comparing firestorm pvp to firestorm pve, and that doesn't work. It's decent in pve because it slides under prot spirit, has a fairly large area of effect, and the damage numbers aren't that bad...the long casting time is a drawback though.