Well the feature has been here for so long but lately, the kurzicks managed to exploit the turtle spawns in Fort Aspenwood. Basically, when the turtle dies, the whole squad of warriors have to die to make the turtle respawn.
Lately what the kurzicks have been doing is leading the wars away, dying then kill the turtle. By doing this the wars seem to be bugged and not even bother moving anymore, they just stand there. Only way for them to move is either aggro them, but no one does that anyway.
It's a real cheap exploit imo. I always thought it was a good tactic to stall the wars (seen people do it) but with this bug, it stops luxon offense altogether. I say just let the wars advance to fort until it gets aggro.
Fort Aspenwood Turtle Exploit
Leonof
Rok
Well why are you letting them kill the turtles. If you can't keep your cannons alive you deserve to lose. Specially if they don't even make it past the first gate.
JiggyFly
Believe it or not every Luxon team has Monks healing turtles 24/7, and it's besides the point I've lost matches because Luxons have pushed into Green gate but no turtles were present because the Warriors were pulled (someitmes not even on purpose but by some fleeing Kurzick) leaving 1-2 of them standing around in random places on the map.
meat shield
i found another exploit on this map
when the turtle comander base is capped while the turtle or wariors are still alive and the luxons re-cap that point there will spawm another set of wariors/turtles
i dont have a sreenie but i saw 8 wariors and ONE turtle atacking the orange gate
(mayby this only comes when the turle is dead but the wariors are still alive)
when the turtle comander base is capped while the turtle or wariors are still alive and the luxons re-cap that point there will spawm another set of wariors/turtles
i dont have a sreenie but i saw 8 wariors and ONE turtle atacking the orange gate
(mayby this only comes when the turle is dead but the wariors are still alive)
Arcador
Shoot tickets then, they will fix it probably sometime soon.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by Leonof
Well the feature has been here for so long but lately, the kurzicks managed to exploit the turtle spawns in Fort Aspenwood. Basically, when the turtle dies, the whole squad of warriors have to die to make the turtle respawn.
Lately what the kurzicks have been doing is leading the wars away, dying then kill the turtle. |
Anyway, i don't think the wars are exactly bugged, they just seem to lack leadership once they turtle dies and there's no kurzicks in aggro range. They sortof go "huh? wtf we do now?" once they've killed the guy they were chasing, but if an enemy comes within aggro range or they're attacked they'll start fighting again.
Also like meatshield says, I don't think the warriors have to be dead for a new turtle to spawn.
luauelveneno
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Also like meatshield says, I don't think the warriors have to be dead for a new turtle to spawn. |
Ira Blinks
I think you guys missing important point. If Kurzicks pushing Luxons AND turtle AND warriors OUTSIDE fort, then Luxons deserve to die.
Cripple the guy chasing them away. Heal turtle. Kill Kurzick player? Learn to counter it or die.
Cripple the guy chasing them away. Heal turtle. Kill Kurzick player? Learn to counter it or die.
Ira Blinks
seems like a valid tactic to me, same way as EoE wiping out kurzick base with death of luxon players/NPC.
Silver_Fang
This is not a bug but a AI problem.
Vermilion Okeanos
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
This is not a bug but a AI problem.
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Omega X
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
This is not a bug but a AI problem.
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beanerman_99
I find this humorous.
When the Luxons were beating the crap of of the Kurzicks and using EoE against them, everyone told the Kurzicks to shut up about there being imbalance and that they should "learn to play the game".
Now, the Kurziks have found a way to start beating up on the Luxons and now the Luxons are crying foul and that it is imbalanced. LOL
Why is it that the Luxons think that having 8 warriors traveling in packs and spiking targets dead in seconds is fair but the Kurzik NPC's are stuck to one area and can easily be AoE'd to death by my ele spells? And now that you don't have your warriors you are crying about it?!?
I personally do not feel that the AI is a bug or imbalance or whatever you want to call it. I say learn to deal with it. Stop the person luring them away. That simple.
When the Luxons were beating the crap of of the Kurzicks and using EoE against them, everyone told the Kurzicks to shut up about there being imbalance and that they should "learn to play the game".
Now, the Kurziks have found a way to start beating up on the Luxons and now the Luxons are crying foul and that it is imbalanced. LOL
Why is it that the Luxons think that having 8 warriors traveling in packs and spiking targets dead in seconds is fair but the Kurzik NPC's are stuck to one area and can easily be AoE'd to death by my ele spells? And now that you don't have your warriors you are crying about it?!?
I personally do not feel that the AI is a bug or imbalance or whatever you want to call it. I say learn to deal with it. Stop the person luring them away. That simple.
beanerman_99
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Originally Posted by Priceykins
as obviously, they were not designed to stand around and do nothing. They are there to kill the kurzicks, and help the luxons, not stand around doing nothing.
This is a bug in the AI, as its obviously not ment to occur as such. This is much different than a balance issue. So i suggest you get a clue, before you flame others.  edit: aimed at ira blinks, childeofmalkev beat me to it |
Its not a bug IMO. Learn to keep the Kurziks from luring them away. Quit relying on sittng back and letting the Turtles and warriors do all the killing.
EternalTempest
I can see a problem, If they fix the problem so the turtle re-spawns, people are going to complain that there no body guards (aka the ppl still left alive in the fort) then mention about it being unbalanced that the turtle can be ambushed.
Then they fix so body guards show up... wait now.. that's now DOUBLE the body guard of the turtle that rejoins the orginal guard.
I do see the problem with the turtle.. but don't see the common fix being a complete fix either.
I can see if turtled dies and Zero targets, the path the lux guard to hit the closest gate -> green date. It would speed up there death or force ppl to actually kill them or force them to run back to turtle (drop aggro and retreat.. since there the body guard).
Then they fix so body guards show up... wait now.. that's now DOUBLE the body guard of the turtle that rejoins the orginal guard.
I do see the problem with the turtle.. but don't see the common fix being a complete fix either.
I can see if turtled dies and Zero targets, the path the lux guard to hit the closest gate -> green date. It would speed up there death or force ppl to actually kill them or force them to run back to turtle (drop aggro and retreat.. since there the body guard).
Infinity^
Probably quite difficult to 'work for your turtle' when there's a bug that stops you getting one.
Ole Man Bourbon
Yeah, it's a flaw and should be corrected. (even though winning on the Luxon side is ridiculously easy with one obvious build)
Eet GnomeSmasher
So NPCs that were designed to attack the enemy getting stuck in one place isnt a bug? I guess they're supposed to stand around doing nothing. So what exactly qualifies as a bug then?
Maybe when my character gets stuck in a mission or something, people like Ira Blinks will tell me to "stop whining and stop getting stuck you f-ing noob! It's not a bug, it's balance!" I guess that won't qualify as a bug either right? Because I could have prevented it somehow.
Maybe when my character gets stuck in a mission or something, people like Ira Blinks will tell me to "stop whining and stop getting stuck you f-ing noob! It's not a bug, it's balance!" I guess that won't qualify as a bug either right? Because I could have prevented it somehow.
Kaguya
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Originally Posted by Ira Blinks
If you read my previous post you would understand that by "working for it" i meant protecting the turtle and disabling kiter.
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Eet GnomeSmasher
Ira I think you should take your own advice with the PMing if you're just going to bicker like an old lady. Half your posts here were personal attacks.
Anyway, there is a difference between a balance issue and a bug. You're clearly letting your biases cloud that line. If you want to argue about balance issues, fine. But come on, this is clearly a bug. And arguing that it isnt just makes you look foolish.
Anyway, there is a difference between a balance issue and a bug. You're clearly letting your biases cloud that line. If you want to argue about balance issues, fine. But come on, this is clearly a bug. And arguing that it isnt just makes you look foolish.
Ira Blinks
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Originally Posted by Kaguya
Yeah, it's not a bug as long as you kill the guy trying to exploit it! HURRRRR. ::rolleyes
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![Ec]-[oMaN](/static/static/../Img/avatar8384_2.gif){kind=avatar}
Ec]-[oMaN
maybe the Luxons will play Jade more often, better for the game anyways.
Symon Butterthingers
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Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher
But come on, this is clearly a bug. And arguing that it isnt just makes you look foolish.
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Being triggered by opposite team's action does not automagically make it an exploit. In fact it takes conscious effort of more than one player to pull this off (may i remind you we talking about random arenas).
It is like i say: Hey! that guy killed me, which gave me dp, which made me lose the game, thus it is an exploit! Well, what were you doing when kurzicks were kiting away warriors and killing the turtle?
Think of it as a valuable ingame resource. Losing it can easily cost you whole game. You may say im trying to justify design flaw by using ballance... well maybe I do, it doesnt make me any less right.
Silver_Fang
What is the function of the Warrior? Protect the Turtle.
Is it doing his job? Yes, but failed.
Is it a bug? No.
If A-Net consider this is a bug, Then they need to rework the whole Kurzick NPC as they are all bugged.
Gatekeeper went out of Greengate. some NPC got pulled out of the Fort, NPC stay inside of AoE.
Is it doing his job? Yes, but failed.
Is it a bug? No.
If A-Net consider this is a bug, Then they need to rework the whole Kurzick NPC as they are all bugged.
Gatekeeper went out of Greengate. some NPC got pulled out of the Fort, NPC stay inside of AoE.
Alfrond
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
What is the function of the Warrior? Protect the Turtle.
Is it doing his job? Yes, but failed. Is it a bug? No. If A-Net consider this is a bug, Then they need to rework the whole Kurzick NPC as they are all bugged. Gatekeeper went out of Greengate. some NPC got pulled out of the Fort, NPC stay inside of AoE. |
Luckily, a compromise can be made! Silver Fang made the excellent point that Kurzicks are also troubled by a possible bug. Sometimes the gatekeepers will run out of the green gate and hang around outside refusing to come back in! Infact one time I remember one going as far as the inner orange gate and then staying there till he died. I reccomend that A-net fix the Luxon warrior bug and the Kurzick gatekeeper bug. Then everyone can be happy!
ChildeOfMalkav
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
What is the function of the Warrior? Protect the Turtle.
Is it doing his job? Yes, but failed. Is it a bug? No. If A-Net consider this is a bug, Then they need to rework the whole Kurzick NPC as they are all bugged. Gatekeeper went out of Greengate. some NPC got pulled out of the Fort, NPC stay inside of AoE. |
And also there's a difference here, luring Luxon warriors away and getting them stuck is EASY and pretty much consistant. The bug where the gatekeepers run out isnt easy to exploit and inconsistant.
Eet GnomeSmasher
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Originally Posted by Symon Butterthingers
well, what exactly is a bug? The fact that warriors don't move? I see it being perfectly logical. They are there to protect the turtle. The fact that they have somehow became unstopable spiking team is a bad ballance decision on ANet part. If turtle is dead, there is nothing to protect, so they don't move.
Being triggered by opposite team's action does not automagically make it an exploit. In fact it takes conscious effort of more than one player to pull this off (may i remind you we talking about random arenas). It is like i say: Hey! that guy killed me, which gave me dp, which made me lose the game, thus it is an exploit! Well, what were you doing when kurzicks were kiting away warriors and killing the turtle? Think of it as a valuable ingame resource. Losing it can easily cost you whole game. You may say im trying to justify design flaw by using ballance... well maybe I do, it doesnt make me any less right. |
You argument is plenty flawed. If you're saying that it's okay for the Luxons to just stand there when the turtle is dead because the only "job" they do is to protect the turtle, then how is it that they can be lured away from the very thing that they're supposed to protect?
But the whole argument is moot anyway, since it's only your interpretation that says their only job is to protect the turtle. Anyone else with common sense and logic knows that it's also to attack the Kurzick Fort.
And your whole analogy about killing someone and giving them DP...is just laughable. I have no idea where you're trying to go with that....
Rogmar
It wouldn't be an exploit if the warriors eventually returned to the death area of the turtle and pushed forward, that way luring would be a tactic not a game winner. So if an npc fails at a job and gets stuck and the Luxons can't do anything about it, they deserve to lose? I think lack of coordination should earn a loss, not buggy AI...
generik
I have been doing it with my 55 monk, just draw both mobs of warriors away and tank them through the whole game indefinitely, if they have no mesmers or vamp necros they basically lose.
Silver_Fang
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Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav
And no one is disputing that Gatekeepers running out of the gate is a bug. I want that fixed as well. But to say that Luxon warriors getting stuck isnt a bug is being in extreme denial. Just because both sides have bugs doesnt make them negate each other and make them NOT bugs. Such bad logic...
And also there's a difference here, luring Luxon warriors away and getting them stuck is EASY and pretty much consistant. The bug where the gatekeepers run out isnt easy to exploit and inconsistant. |
Crappy AI != bug.
The reason they are 'stuck' is because they got crappy AI and they dont know what to do next. If any Kurzick goes near them, they sure will attack and depends on situation, they might able to return to the battlefield. But none of the Kurzick will pull them obviously.
ChildeOfMalkav
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Originally Posted by generik
I have been doing it with my 55 monk, just draw both mobs of warriors away and tank them through the whole game indefinitely, if they have no mesmers or vamp necros they basically lose.
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If that isnt an A.I. bug then nothing is...
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
The reason i said it is not bug isnt because of Kurzick NPC 'is bugged' as well.
Crappy AI != bug. The reason they are 'stuck' is because they got crappy AI and they dont know what to do next. If any Kurzick goes near them, they sure will attack and depends on situation, they might able to return to the battlefield. But none of the Kurzick will pull them obviously. |
It just amazes me that people will deny the obvious when it suits their purpose.
Matsumi
Kind of old news really. I never really understood how to do it myself, so I haven't.
All of the AI in this battle are buggy though, and most of the kurzick npc's don't stand a chance against any AoE damage. They're just kind of like pigeons waiting to be killed, unless they're facing other npc's directly and not from a siege distance. I would like it if arenanet would take a good look at this place and fix a majority if not all the bugs in it.
Unless it was their true intention for kurzicks to be constantly in panic all the time, running amber like ants, and killing turtles, frantically trying to rebuild gates that go down in 2 seige hits, along with the npc's that are suppose to be defending it. Warriors that don't body block eachother, that attack in sync, killing any opposing force in a matter of seconds, spamming heal sig so they don't die. It's a good thing they sync the coward skill at the same time, otherwise you'd be knocked down a majority of the battle. Mines that the luxons get to spawn at, but the kurzicks have to spawn from the same point no matter what. Turtles that get stuck or warrior gangs that get stuck. Mine cleansers that get taken out by a meteor shower or two and are rits as opposed to the luxon ones which are longbows.
The whole map right now is flawed in my opinion, but you know, if they made any changes to it what so ever, someone would cry nerf till the end of time. "What? They took away our fast way of winning, so that we now have to actually work for it? NERF! Someone sound the NERF alarm! Tell those PvE guys they're somehow affected too. Whaaaa!" lol
Sometimes I wonder why people insist on only playing this battle instead of jade quarry, but then I stop myself and remember why. Because it's just so... BUGGY!
All of the AI in this battle are buggy though, and most of the kurzick npc's don't stand a chance against any AoE damage. They're just kind of like pigeons waiting to be killed, unless they're facing other npc's directly and not from a siege distance. I would like it if arenanet would take a good look at this place and fix a majority if not all the bugs in it.
Unless it was their true intention for kurzicks to be constantly in panic all the time, running amber like ants, and killing turtles, frantically trying to rebuild gates that go down in 2 seige hits, along with the npc's that are suppose to be defending it. Warriors that don't body block eachother, that attack in sync, killing any opposing force in a matter of seconds, spamming heal sig so they don't die. It's a good thing they sync the coward skill at the same time, otherwise you'd be knocked down a majority of the battle. Mines that the luxons get to spawn at, but the kurzicks have to spawn from the same point no matter what. Turtles that get stuck or warrior gangs that get stuck. Mine cleansers that get taken out by a meteor shower or two and are rits as opposed to the luxon ones which are longbows.
The whole map right now is flawed in my opinion, but you know, if they made any changes to it what so ever, someone would cry nerf till the end of time. "What? They took away our fast way of winning, so that we now have to actually work for it? NERF! Someone sound the NERF alarm! Tell those PvE guys they're somehow affected too. Whaaaa!" lol
Sometimes I wonder why people insist on only playing this battle instead of jade quarry, but then I stop myself and remember why. Because it's just so... BUGGY!
Ole Man Bourbon
I think the way the Green gate works really sucks for the Kurz. You should at least be able to repair that even when your guy is under fire. Problem with fixing the Kurz side is that with any decent Monking at all, it would be invincible. As is stands now, good players can win there, but they have to bring skills that your average noob never uses (snares, ally heals, non-enchant heals, stance removals, defensive spirits, running skills, corpse steals, etc). Sorry for off-topic.
Symon Butterthingers
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Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher
Hi Ira.
You argument is plenty flawed. If you're saying that it's okay for the Luxons to just stand there when the turtle is dead because the only "job" they do is to protect the turtle, then how is it that they can be lured away from the very thing that they're supposed to protect? |
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| But the whole argument is moot anyway, since it's only your interpretation that says their only job is to protect the turtle. Anyone else with common sense and logic knows that it's also to attack the Kurzick Fort. |
The only valid argument so far is that effect of kiting them away is irreversable. But as I said already there are many things there that are like that. If you have let that happen, then you will lose... fair and square.
If you let touch ranger sneak by green gate he will kill one gatekeeper and kurzick will lose. Do you see anyone complaining that luxons can just run thru the gate even with 3-4 NPC standing on their way, who are SUPPOSED to guard it? No! Because YOU have let touchie inside.
Do you see anyone complaining that gatekeepers can't be rezzed? No! Because that is the point of the game - to get stuff killed.
If you let irreversable things happen you WILL lose, and it's your own damn fault. Too many people spoiled by general GW's forgiveness don't understand such simple things, and you are one of them.
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| And your whole analogy about killing someone and giving them DP...is just laughable. I have no idea where you're trying to go with that.... |
Vermilion Okeanos
What are people smoking? Not enough fort aspendwood apparently.
Look, EoE can be dealt with; People killing turtle can be dealt with; Turtle with 8 NPC can be dealt with. This lure trap is something can not be dealt with. It is equivalent with luxon player luring the gatekeeper and gunther outside of green gate, and get the kurzick wtfpwned instantly. There was no hope for luxon side the moment 1 warrior NPC get stuck, let alone both side of warriors got stuck. They fixed gunther (barely), they should fix this too.
Look, EoE can be dealt with; People killing turtle can be dealt with; Turtle with 8 NPC can be dealt with. This lure trap is something can not be dealt with. It is equivalent with luxon player luring the gatekeeper and gunther outside of green gate, and get the kurzick wtfpwned instantly. There was no hope for luxon side the moment 1 warrior NPC get stuck, let alone both side of warriors got stuck. They fixed gunther (barely), they should fix this too.
ChildeOfMalkav
Gnome you were right. Symon is Ira Blinks, only he could spout such faulty logic.
Nice ban evasion Ira Blinks. Mods, IP check?
Nice ban evasion Ira Blinks. Mods, IP check?
Lord Aro
Hmm.
Was there an update to aspenwood recently that caused this behaviour? I've never seen the turtles stop spawning if you kill the turtle then lure and ignore the warrior guards (4 is a lot, but I won't get in to that).
Many times when I play aspenwood I go as a turtle killer. Based on killing the turtles then running amber, ignoring the warriors. Often I kill the turtle at the spawn point. The second turtle spawns with his 4 guards, the entire group of 9 will head out when activated.
Was there an update to aspenwood recently that caused this behaviour? I've never seen the turtles stop spawning if you kill the turtle then lure and ignore the warrior guards (4 is a lot, but I won't get in to that).
Many times when I play aspenwood I go as a turtle killer. Based on killing the turtles then running amber, ignoring the warriors. Often I kill the turtle at the spawn point. The second turtle spawns with his 4 guards, the entire group of 9 will head out when activated.
Symon Butterthingers
ChildeOfMalkav
if my logic is faulty, show me how. So far you've done nothing to prove yourself except repeating same useless statement in many different ways. I on on the other hand used very specific way of proof by taking statement known to be true (EoE not being a bug or exploit) and showing how it is equivalent to the statement in question. If you think this tactic is faulty you would have to prove that first to math experts around the world.
Apparently that is too hard for you, so instead you go back to flames. I'm sorry I got nothing to answer to that except that this conversation is over.
if my logic is faulty, show me how. So far you've done nothing to prove yourself except repeating same useless statement in many different ways. I on on the other hand used very specific way of proof by taking statement known to be true (EoE not being a bug or exploit) and showing how it is equivalent to the statement in question. If you think this tactic is faulty you would have to prove that first to math experts around the world.
Apparently that is too hard for you, so instead you go back to flames. I'm sorry I got nothing to answer to that except that this conversation is over.
Symon Butterthingers
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Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos
What are people smoking? Not enough fort aspendwood apparently.
Look, EoE can be dealt with; |
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| People killing turtle can be dealt with; |
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| Turtle with 8 NPC can be dealt with. |
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| This lure trap is something can not be dealt with. |
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| It is equivalent with luxon player luring the gatekeeper and gunther outside of green gate, and get the kurzick wtfpwned instantly. There was no hope for luxon side the moment 1 warrior NPC get stuck, let alone both side of warriors got stuck. They fixed gunther (barely), they should fix this too. |
Orinn
I think it's amusing that people are claiming that losing a turtle squad is on the same level as losing the match. Kinda shows me why I ignore all the people saying that the turtles aren't ridiculously overpowered to begin with.
I played several matches today with my spirit bond monk. Each time, I got to a turtle and stayed there, negating the entire team of warriors and turtle. Amazing how many luxons ragequit when they figured out that I wasn't gonna KILL the turtle, just stall it for the rest of the match, negating it completely.
Maybe it's time for ANET to look at FA and decide whether they want the turtles to be the single most important element of the battle? If they're that powerful that losing one of them makes people this angry, they might be just a little unbalancing to the map.
And yes, I believe the warriors getting "lost" is a bug. they shouldn't wander far from the turtle, say longbow range, and then they should lose aggro and head back to their spot. Easier for me to hold the entire group that way anyway.
I played several matches today with my spirit bond monk. Each time, I got to a turtle and stayed there, negating the entire team of warriors and turtle. Amazing how many luxons ragequit when they figured out that I wasn't gonna KILL the turtle, just stall it for the rest of the match, negating it completely.
Maybe it's time for ANET to look at FA and decide whether they want the turtles to be the single most important element of the battle? If they're that powerful that losing one of them makes people this angry, they might be just a little unbalancing to the map.
And yes, I believe the warriors getting "lost" is a bug. they shouldn't wander far from the turtle, say longbow range, and then they should lose aggro and head back to their spot. Easier for me to hold the entire group that way anyway.