Ladder Manipulation Investigation Results

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I
Inde
Site Contributor
#1
News from Guildwars.com:

Quote:
During the recent Fun Season, three guilds were found to have knowingly participated in ladder abuse as defined in the GWFC Events Eligibility rules. The rules state that guilds engaging in such actions may be disqualified from receiving prizes in events during the GWFC, including the Fun Season. Since the rules violation took place only during the Fun Season, these guilds are no longer eligible to receive any of that season's prizes. The winners list will be adjusted to reward the top 16 eligible guilds.

To submit evidence of any ladder abuse/manipulation or other rules violations, please email [email protected].
-----------------------------------------
You can discuss, but there will be no mention of guild names being thrown around. I will delete any reference to any person or guild in this thread.
Zinger314
Zinger314
Debbie Downer
#2
I think that the reason is unjustitifed. What exactly is "ladder abuse?"

The rumor is that they are attacking guilds who constantly won when the other team resigned.

That's circumstantial, IMO.
Carinae
Carinae
Forge Runner
#3
Why can we mention names? If they were actually disqualified, then they were caught and punished -> guilt.

I understand about not mentioning names if someone is merely accused or suspected of something, but Anet caught them red handed in this case.

Just asking, the answer could be "Because I said so Carinae."
Red
Red
Rawr!
#4
Totally handled wrong. The mini*ban(tm) was not the way to go here.

Having never done anything about this sort of thing, they sudden slam disqualifications down? That's completely contrary to the image ANet is trying to create of a company in tune with its players.

Appropriate would have been a "oh, by the way... we noticed some of this stuff going on. We will not tolerate it next season, so please stop". Smurfing has been around since I first signed on Guild Wars last year, and this sudden, harsh action is a slap in the face--not just to the guilds hit with the punishment, but to all players who believe(d) in the fairness of ANet.

Tsk, tsk, ANet. Communicate with us more, please. Can you imagine how it looks, to have you come back a week or so after everything is supposedly all said and done, and go "OH BUT WAIT! We're gonna enforce the vaguely written rule by punishing what you've been doing for months upon months now!"

... does the term "grace period" mean nothing to you?
tomcruisejr
tomcruisejr
Banned
#5
You wanna publish factual results, have the balls to publish them without withholding the important infos. making guesses is like finding a lost pin inside a dark room.
n
nataku_05
Academy Page
#6
we're assuming dervish abuse during the pvp event
I
Inde
Site Contributor
#7
Carinae Dragonblood, because their's controversy. Because I know of only 2 confirmed guilds involved and speculation on the 3rd. Because everyone will have an opinion on the guild, on members of the guild, on practices of other guilds. And because guildwars.com did not post the actual guilds so I have to assume there is a reason.
yesitsrob
yesitsrob
Elite Guru
#8
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataku_05
we're assuming dervish abuse during the pvp event
it's to do with resign spiking.
R
Roxianna
Pre-Searing Cadet
#9
I'd like at least know what exactly got Anet off the sidelines about this. There are discussions about ladder manipulation on this forum alone going back to the change in the way Champion Points are awarded. So why now?

Secondly I'd like to know what exacty the ladder abuse was because the rules for eligibility state: "Guilds will be disqualified if they engage in ladder abuse, as determined by Sponsor in its sole discretion." Not exactly descriptive.

Third, okay nice that "something" was done in the top 20, but what is Anet doing to address the whole screwed up top 200 and Champion point farming debaucle?
Zinger314
Zinger314
Debbie Downer
#10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inde
And because guildwars.com did not post the actual guilds so I have to assume there is a reason.
Bad publicity, I presume. Any guilds publically mentioned would be harrassed.

Moreso, one of those two confirmed guilds (IIRC) participated in the GWFC. If they publically announced their name, ArenaNet would undermine themselves for giving them only a slap on the wrist.
Rok
Rok
Lion's Arch Merchant
#11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redly
Totally handled wrong. The mini*ban(tm) was not the way to go here.

Having never done anything about this sort of thing, they sudden slam disqualifications down? That's completely contrary to the image ANet is trying to create of a company in tune with its players.

Appropriate would have been a "oh, by the way... we noticed some of this stuff going on. We will not tolerate it next season, so please stop". Smurfing has been around since I first signed on Guild Wars last year, and this sudden, harsh action is a slap in the face--not just to the guilds hit with the punishment, but to all players who believe(d) in the fairness of ANet.

Tsk, tsk, ANet. Communicate with us more, please. Can you imagine how it looks, to have you come back a week or so after everything is supposedly all said and done, and go "OH BUT WAIT! We're gonna enforce the vaguely written rule by punishing what you've been doing for months upon months now!"

... does the term "grace period" mean nothing to you?
So they decide to do something about it now. You knew it has been going on, did you ever report it? Cheating is cheating, the fact that the acted later than sooner does not mean those guilds should not be punished for their actions.
L
LoneDust
Frost Gate Guardian
#12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rok
So they decide to do something about it now. You knew it has been going on, did you ever report it? Cheating is cheating, the fact that the acted later than sooner does not mean those guilds should not be punished for their actions.
It's a lot easier to punish guilds from a short "fun" season, instead of tracking and trying to recover prize money given out in the past. You could make the demands, but expecting Arenanet to have the resource to keep the ladder completely fair is simply unrealistic. Get used to the sloppy system!
R
Roxianna
Pre-Searing Cadet
#13
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneDust
...Get used to the sloppy system!
Hopefully the fact that some official action was taken means you are wrong about this :/

The only reason I play Guild Wars and buy their stuff is for the GvG ladder competition. I am sure I am not the only one there for whom this is true. A ladder without integrity, is a ladder without interest.
L
Lets Get to Healing
Banned
#14
If they still had it in the game, I'd assume they did the rated match against other guilds, and the other guild let them win. How are they abusing it now?
makosi
makosi
Grotto Attendant
#15
What did the involved guilds do that constituted 'ladder abuse'? Someone mentioned "resign spiking" but what is that exactly and how is it rule breaking?
M
My Sweet Revenga
Krytan Explorer
#16
Tour de Cantha anyone?
J
Juno Onuj
Wilds Pathfinder
#17
The main thing they're talking about here is the actions taken by three (actually more involved) top guilds manipulating the ladder, especially in the last few hours of the season in which certain teams were asking other top teams to resign spike for them. It's really not hard to figure out who the guilds were, especially if you were watching obs mode for the last hour or two.
Red
Red
Rawr!
#18
I do not deny that the smurfing and such should be stopped--I'm glad ANet is taking notice. However...

STORYTIME

Once upon a time, in the state of Kentucky, in the United States... there were a series of motor accidents. Emergency vehicles would pull onto the shoulder, either fully or partially, with their lights flashing. However, motorists travelling on the highway would approach too fast and end up clipping the vehicle, or perhaps even a person standing at the scene.

Kentucky passed a law, legally requiring all motorists to either slow down when approaching flashing lights, or to move into the far lane, away from the stopped emergency vehicles. The state put up signs as warnings of the new law--and, over the first month or so, police would pull violaters over and inform them of the new law, getting the word out, and let them go with a warning that the future would hold fierce punishments for violators.

The state did not -immediately- begin writing tickets, even though it started a small campaign while the law was being written. Instead, they made sure everyone understood what had happened, and what would happen if they continue to violate the new law.

...

Compare this with ANet, who stood silent on this subject (and, according to WoC online radio listeners, even some ANet designers recognized the 'strategy' inherent in /resign spikes and such)... and now suddenly pull out the rewards from guilds who have been acting congruent with the standards of high-end PvP.

I agree that smurfing and the like needs to stop; but ANet didn't need to do it this way. It was harsh, done without any warning or communication. This is NOT the way to inspire confidence within your customer base; but rather, only one more example of how ANet will do whatever it darn well pleases, and we are expected to nod dumbly and support them, buying the next expansion without question.

I guess we're just lucky that the Imperial ANet Edict aligned with
(most of) our opinions this time...
coldplay
coldplay
Banned
#19
who are those three guilds ? Can we know that and talk about those 3
J
Juno Onuj
Wilds Pathfinder
#20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inde
You can discuss, but there will be no mention of guild names being thrown around. I will delete any reference to any person or guild in this thread.

Ummm.... yeah ^