Help Me Settle an Argument with my Guild Over Weapon Req.

Yes, I am very well aware of how req works for the msot part, However, my guild has been arguing over How much it matters. Pretty much it can be summed up into one question.

Let's say I have 16 Swordsmanship and I have a sword with req. 13 and a sword with req. 8. Would the damage be any different?

No difference. As long as you have above the req, the damage is identical. If this wasn't the case then PvP would be unbalanced as people who could afford req 7 swords would be stronger than those who used PvP swords (req 9).

If you meet the weapon requirement on a sword, the sword will deal full (100%) damage.

With 16 swordsmanship, your req 13 and req 8 sword will both deal full damage. If they're both equal in damage, they will still deal the same amount.

~Salad

Thank you. Another mystery solved.

amazing things you can find in the FAQ stickied at the top of the Q&A subforum, even the answer to your question.

i can't believe people think req makes a difference to damage :S like Haggard said it would totally unbalance the whole system.

It wasn't really a mystery, just setting some rather clueless people straight.

In another small twist, if you have say a requirement 8 sword, and you have 8 in the attribute, you will deal much less than if you have a requirement 12 sword with 12 in the attribute. Don't think that reaching the requirement but no higher will max out the weapon's damage - as with most things the more you put in, the better the returns.

yeh, if u have met the req for the weapon dont add more unless ur using skills eg for a sword - galrath slash to get higher dmg on the actual skill. If u have met the req of the weapon and ur happy with the dmg of your skills then put it into stregth to increase your dmg.

i had the same argument with a member of my old guild
he got really worked up about it and said he had done loads fo tests to say that he lower the req the more dmg ^_^

how the hell can ppl actualy belive that low req makes hmm more damage bah they gotta be insane..

It dosen't matter, the damage is the same, if you don't have teh requirements the damage will be halfed

the only thing it would affect would be the damage done by ur swordsmanship skills

No DMG difference, but the lower the req...the more flexibility you have in your attribute points. Say you have a req.13 sword you really have to pump the points into that sword attribute, but if you have a req.7-8 then you can put them someplace else and spread the wealth. Some profession skills depend on the higher attribute points though..for things like seconds for poisen,bleeding etc...

I have a sweet setup on my toon right now, since I like to play warrior but I also like to shoot a bow I only buy req.7-8 swords and bows and im able to have the best of both worlds. I just love wilderness survival on a warrior!

It all depends on what the skill description states, the only reason people think higher req. means higher damage is because they have 13 points pumped into that attribute lol it has nothing to do with req. of a weapon.

Requirement does make a difference, but only if you don't meet it. If you meet the requirement, and the requirement is 8, it doesn't matter if you have 8, 10, or 12, they will do the same damage (excluding skills).

Low requirement weps are just better if you either
1. don't want to put in enough points to accually meet the requirement, or
2. you want more flexibility

If you are just going to keep you weapons attribute at 12+ at all times for all your builds, then you might as well ignore the requirement.

That is not correct. Weapon is considered close to starter weapon when you don't meet its requirements. This was confirmed by Anet but I can't find the post anymore with the new search function.

There is some misinformation in this thread. While meeting the req is indeed binary, the amount of points in your Swordsmanship attribute does affect your damage. If you have a req 8 sword, and you keep adding more and more points into your attribute--up to 16--you will keep doing more and more damage, even without skills. There is very little reason for a Warrior, especially in PvP, not to have his weapon at 16.

However, if you have 16 Swordsmanship, you will see no damage difference between a req 8 sword and a req 12.

So to sum it up...

Low Req. weapons = More flexibity for attribute point placement.

Using more attribute points in an attribute = Longer damage/Higher damage depending on skills used.

I like having the flexibility option.

You're both correct, in a way.


Weapon damage is calculated in two steps:

1. Do you meet the requirements?

• If so, the full stated range (i.e. 15-22 for swords) is used.
• If not, half of the stated range (8-11) is used.

2. What is your current weapon attribute level?

Using Ensign's Game Mechanics article:

Effect of Attributes on Weapon Damage
Examples:

1. You have 0 in Swordsmanship and are wielding a req 9 max sword. You don't meet requirements (8-11 damage) and have 0 Swordsmanship (35.6%). Your actual damage range is 3-4 before modifiers, which is pretty close to starter weapon damage.

2. You have 12 in Swordsmanship and are wielding a req 13 max sword. You don't meet requirements (8-11 damage) and have 12 Swordsmanship (100%). You actual damage range is 8-11 damage before modifiers, which isn't quite starter but not something to be proud of.

3. You have 9 in Swordsmanship and are wielding a req 9 max sword. You meet the requirements (15-22 damage) and have 9 Swordsmanship (77.1%). Your actual damage range is 12-17 damage before modifiers.

4. You have 14 in Swordsmanship and are wielding a req 9 max sword. You meet the requirements (15-22 damage) and have 14 Swordsmanship (107%). Your actual damage range is 16-24 damage before modifiers.

Does this take into account the +20 damage if customized and the damage in stance etc..? Or is that included in the req.?

No, it doesn't take them into account. The modifiers work so long as you meet their requirement (while in a stance, while enchanted, while health is less than 50%, etc.)

You got #2 right, but no, both are not right... from that same article:

As an additional point, the damage for that 10-20 wand doesn't have to be same as a different 10-20 wand. One wand could do the 2-4 he mentions above, while another, looking exactly the same could do 4-6. It may have changed in the year since I read about it, but all weapons have two damage ranges, one for if you meet the reqs, and one for when you don't. I believe the damage range for when you don't meet the reqs can be any that a no-requirement weapon can have.

This anyone here can check: Look at all your +12 focuses -- some will give you the +3 energy mentioned in the article above, but some will give more, up to +6.

Please, as the sticky says, be sure of your info before you post. It's important not to give misinformation out in these forums. And the posting of links as confirmation to your info was a very good idea.

The chart there is the base. Add on any modifiers, such as customization, etc.

edit:
More accurately, multiply by modifier, so for the +20% customised modifier, multiply the damage by 1.20.

Actually, I suppose I should clarify: Ensign's article is fairly old, and a few things have been discovered or changed since then. Since you brought it up:

1. There are two categories of weapons: PvP, collector, crafter, and green items fall into one category, and dropped items (excluding greens) are in another. My post was specifically dealing with dropped, max-damage items with variable requirements (which is what this thread was about).

• With dropped weapons, not meeting the requirement halves base damage. With the other weapons, not meeting the requirements gives you starter weapon damage.
• With dropped focii, not meeting the requirement gives you 6 base energy - if the max energy for the focus is greater than 6. With 6 or less base energy, not meeting the requirement gives you 3 energy. With non-dropped items, not meeting the requirement always gives you 3 energy.

2. Dropped weapons with non-max damage can have an inherent +damage modifier. For example, an 10-18 sword could have a damage +1 modifier. But you don't see it because the game will display the sword as a 11-19 sword, and you'd never know the difference unless you didn't meet the requirement. A good example is 7-20 axes; normal max damage is 6-28, but there are non-max axes with an additional +1 damage, resulting in the 7 minimum damage. Non-max focii can also have an inherent +energy modifier which you also will never see unless you don't meet requirements.

There's another thread here concerning requirements, but a couple of posters who didn't know what they were talking about also posted in that thread. Also, there's an old discussion about hidden inherent modifiers here. It's all particularly messy and nobody cares to test it (who cares about what happens when you don't meet the requirements on a non-max weapon?) so it's better just to stick with max weapons and their requirements.

for me, i always have high stats so higher req is cheaper ya bunch of morons











JK

Well, I guess my info is old then. I wonder when they changed it, and why it wasn't mentioned on the update page.

It's actually been that way since forever, just we didn't always know how it worked. The only thing about requirements that has changed since is the effect of not meeting requirements on shields. Non-dropped shields also used to drop to starter shield stats, making them inferior to gold shields (whose armor would drop to 8) when requirements weren't met. In the July 13th update, this was changed so that all max shields would have equal armor.

so are u saying that if I had a req 8 sword 11-22 and only had 8 pts in swordsmanship I wouldn't do as much raw damage as I would if I had 12 pts in swordsmanship??? Really Confused...thanks

correct.
because regardless of your weapons requirement, and whether or not you meet it, increasing your level in a specific weapon-class will icnrease the overall damage output by a percentage based on diminishing returns.
the main advantage of low req weapons is that you will receive the full base damage of the weapon at a lower requirement.
now, if you use a r7 sword with 7 in swordsmanship and a r13 sword with r13 swordsmanship you will still do less damage witht he former even though you will receive 100% of te base weapon damage in each case.
why?
because with 7 in swordsmanship you are still 5 points under the base-skill modifier, as i will call it (aka req12), and you will receive only 64% of weapon damage, because you are under the "normal" level of 12 into swordsmanship.
you will still do CONSIDERABLY more damage with 7 in swordsmanship and a r7 sword than you would do if that sword were r8 with 7 in swordsmanship, but you will do less than someone using 13/13.
so this may make you wonder "so why the hell then would i ever want a r7/8/9 sword/axe/bow, whatever?"
A: versatility.
every now and then a build calls upon the need to place your points into other categories from your main weapon attribute, and when this happens, a low-req weapon will allow you to negate the halved-damage otherwise incurred, if you mee the requirement.
to meet the requirement of a r13 sword mwans you are losing MAJOR flexibility in terms of builds. a build that may require high str/tactics/blood-magic, whatever, at the cost of swordsmanship, would leave you useless as far as weapon damage is concerned. if, however, you were using a sword with a low req, making it much easier to meet, and you did indeed meet that requirement, then you would essentially be receiving 200% base weapon damage from someone with an identical build, who didnt meet the weapon req.
again, the advantage is that the lower the req, the more versatile you are with builds. if you wish to run a tank build, for example, you probably dont want to put many points into your weapon attribute...they will be going into defensive skills. but with a r7 weapon you may be able to meet the lowered req; receiving a far lower damage penalty than if you didnt meet the req, allowing you to do more melee damage over time...and over time it does add up.
but, perhaps the largest reason for r7 weapons' popularity isnt in the practicality of the evrsatility provided; but in the status symbolism implied by owning one...

Theories are crap, get 2 or 3 weapons, all max damage but with different req, throw in a green or two and then go to isl eo fthe nameless and test it with different attribute amounts.

See for yourself that req doesn't make you do more damage as long as you meet the req.


Sidenote: if you're a warrior with less than 13 in your weapon attribute then I'm not too sure about you being a real warrior o.o

bah i think the question has been answeard already who cares let ppl think they do more dmg whith low req weapons they are the ones making fools of them selves....

thanks for clearing that up man...tis what i thought but reading thru that thread sorta confused me :P....I run atleast 12 in swords at all times anyways...

A req 7 Max DMG at attribute 11 deal the same dmg as a reg 11 Max DMG at attribute 11.

A req 7 Max DMG at attribute 7 deal less dmg as a reg 11 Max DMG at attribute 11.

The reason isnt because of the what so call diminishing return. The reason is because the weapon attribute grants more damage and critical chance per point.

There is no reason to get a less req weapon than your weapon attribute points. You wont deal extra damage because of it.

Read the following links
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Damage
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Damage_Rating_progression

From the second link look at the bottom table and look at the Ensign's table, the result is nearly identical. And look at the notes on the table.

but sets rank 12, level 20 as the "100% damage" mark, for comparisons with treatments often found on other sites. The formula used to compute these values is:

2^((Damage Rating - 60)/40)

which is the AE calculation from the first links

2^(EffDR - EffAR)/40

look carefully, the ensign damage table only apply to EffAR 60, which is caster armor.

We need to have a 2^((Damage Rating - 80)/40) or
2^((Damage Rating - 100)/40) table to show the percentage damage of weapon to warrior armor.