Red thoughts - on inventory slots limiting PvP/PvE ability

You're out of line, mister. Quit playing the victim here, you are NOT a victim of domestic abuse, that's not even funny.

Look. You bought a game that limits the amount of slots / storage.
In the end, Anet needs to make money. You cannot run a MMORPG without a monthly fee by not making money in other areas. Thus, the Character Slots and PvP Prophecy skills were made available to people as an option.

I don't know how to say it any plainer: You got what you paid for. You CAN get every armor and weapon in the game. The catch is, you can't keep it all on one character. That's not unfair. No where did I read on the Guild Wars box: "Buy anything you want and store it with our unlimited storage!"

So, no, you are not being "abused" by Anet. No one is forcing you to have all these armors and weapons. If you choose to do so, suck it up, and buy another character slot. If you don't want to, then find another way to store all your stuff. Bottom line, there are alternatives out there, but getting FREE unlimited storage is not one of them.

Every class would run into the same problem as you if they loaded up on the same stuff you have. Every class has over four sets of armor they would find useful, and several different combinations of weapons - there has been since the game started. Anet has always made us choose what to fill our inventory with, from collector drops, upgrades, materials, dyes, anything. I think there shouldn't be a need for this discussion because everyone else has accepted these limitations since the beginning of the game. You don't need every armor set in the game.

Just make pvp characters like the rest of us & get over it. I'm pretty sure the rest of us did.

That's like saying we don't have a hair dresser, further armor options, weapon options, or anything else so why should that change now.... o_O

ooookkkiies

W h y n o t a s k f o r i m p r o v e m e n t s?

You guys make it sound like the end of the world for asking for further improvements and then bash the heck out of the OP for asking.... I usually am not very vendictive but if they ever add improvements to storage I really do hope that they leave all the ones who don't "need" it out of the loop.... If you don't need it then don't cry about the fact that others think they do. Basically "think" before you post.
*sighs*

I only started "bashing" Redly after he made a stupid comparison.

But, if you can't stand the heat...

He didn't run away, he went from work to school which happens every M-Thr around Noon-1....
What I responded to you was different and not meant for this thread. If you find his comparrison stupid, thats fine, but that is technically how he feels... He doesn't get fired up about much and so thusly when he does its usually something that is pretty serious to him and he doesn't typically make any statement lightly.

To each his own opinions but its still not right to critisize someone elses views on how they feel about certain things. Red flamed one person thus far in this thread as far as i could tell, and he was way out of line and he knows that (even I told him so). He has not bashed anyone who has no issues with storage, he's just saying he does and he's likely not the only one and that things would be better for all with some further improvements to storage.

Its not as if they said: we aren't working on it!
The devs said they "are" working on it and have been for at least 9mths now and we've seen stacking scrolls (which no one but power levelers use and have on them constantly), stacking quest items (really just a one time use thing, but occassionally we keep them a bit longer), and FINALLY (for Factions only) material storage...
Again a game that totes itself to be cheap with no monthly fees and no further requirements really does go out of its way to add strain thusly forcing some to out of pocket more money. The skills unlock thing I can see as useful but I won't be buying it, not when I can earn them the long hard "no" grinding way >_> Again something that CAN be avoided just takes a lot longer but eventually can be accomplished.
No matter how long you go about with storage there is going to be more and more stuff and eventually they are going to HAVE to up storage or we will be without room, even those of us with one set of armor and a single one handed weapon!

Quicker and easier solution = disable armor switching during PvP matches.

LOL don't make me hate on you =P

/signed

I am in a similar boat. Currently I have to swap inv when I want to change toons for anything other then pvp, My tank is storing ele items, now the ele is storing golds on auction, my ranger is storing my extra necro armors and my ranger has 2 sets and many bows too, my necro is storing my excess mesmer items while I farm with mesmer. Currently I have completely free inv on my Mesmer as I'm farming for FoW for my ele, and on my monk I have enough free slots that I can stick everything in storage except my weapon sets incase I want to do a uw run. If my guild/alliance needs a particular class/build for pve it can take 15 mins to log in/out and move everything around so I have room in my inv to play, or have the items/armor I need for the build. I think armor storage would be awesome, a slot for every set of every stat for every character; this would solve much of my inventory issues and have a beneficial effect on the ingame economy by allowing more money to be removed from circulation through armor purchases.
allowing storage of full 20 slot bags in the vailt box would also be sweet, another idea I have had is pay storage; say pay 10k/month for an extra vault box, this would also have a regulatory effect on the game economy.

I realize that for the average player the current storage is fine however, many friends have two accounts with one consisting of 4-6 mules. The people in dire need of more storage are the people who anet can depend on to keep playing and keep buying expansions; their core user base. It is in anets best intrest to solve the storage issue to keep these people happy and playing.

Both sides make valid points, to be honest.

1) While some of us don't have as much armor as red: we usually are hoarding SOMETHING ... some hoard weapon mods, some materials, some armor, etc etc ad infinitum.

2)Although these things are all useful to have, a good majority of them are not NECESSARY to play the game, nor was it ever implied that they would be.

I have an entire ancillary account with random things stored in it, by my choice, paid for with my own money before there was even a hint of extra slots being available for purchase. I know i'm a packrat, and I also accept the fact i'm out extra $ to support that habit. The only determining factor on "is it worth it or not?" is my own opinion.

The point, really, is the choice you make about what kind of stuff you want. You have to balance what is necessary with what is optional, what is diversity and what is over-abundance. Red may consider all those armor sets to be necessary to his playstyle, whereas another person might think it's overkill. I think the current storage amount is right about in the midrange: more than enough for casual players, but not quite enough for hardcore players.

/signed for more storage options, paid or free, due to the fact I hoard lots of things.

to be honest that makes sense as the person with a lot of gold to buy everything does bring a big unbalanced advantage with the extra sets.

and if it doesnt give an advantage to the person who has everything why have it all?

who knows maybe they will have no switching in the next update

*runs out window before you know who catches him*

/signed to ban armor switching during PvP matches

And, no, I'm not just being a jerk. It actually makes a lot of sense. PvPers can't do it, why should PvE get another advantage in PvP (rare Golds being another advantage, but one I think most can live with)

Question: Why shouldn't the person who has put the work into having the gold to buy everything have an advantage over the person who uses real world money to buy a game and buy unlock packs who hasn't put any time into the game at all? What I get from pvp only people is that they want everything without any work. There are many ways in which pvp is slanted towards disposable pvp toons as it is, considering that the majority of GW players are pve there should be some benifit to using pve toons in pvp othersiwe pvp will stagnate and die as we allready see in HA.

IWAY vs VIMWAY vs BLOODSPIKE anyone? Rank discrimination and the lack of fresh blood and fresh ideas has turned the global tournament into a contest between gimmick builds being run by the same people day in and day out. And then they have the audacity complain about pve grind.

Hopefully Nightfall will bring some fresh ideas, builds, and people into what has become a stagnant cesspool of cliche.

I'm way off topic here but I guess the person I'm quoting is too. <.<

/signed

The entire issue here is that, because PvEers have an advantage, there is at least a reason--if not a need--for high-end PvPers to raise up and prepare Roleplaying characters. If they took away the armor advantadge, that would help, but....

... I think a far better solution than that, is to have Armor, Weapon, and Rune merchants be in PvP zones and allow crafting and runes to be purchased ABSOLUTELY FREE. We finally have a secondary profession changer in the Great Temple of Balthazar for PvP characters... why not let them craft new armor, weapon with unlocked mods, and received unlocked unrunes--unlimited, untradable, and completely free. It would in effect be no different than the PvP creation screen... except for the lack of certain Minus Energy weapons and offhands, but that's another discussion... but it would allow for near instant rerunes, new weapons, new setups, etc. The flexibility of a PvE character who hoards weapons and armor.... on a PvP character. FTW.

Eliminate the difference, and you eliminate most of the problem.

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I keep hearing the cry over and over. "Get more slots!" "Buy a mule!" "Everyone else has either bought another account or made a mule somehow."

.... months ago, people like me wanted to play all 8 professions, either for PvE fun or because they wanted PvP ready characters in all professions, etc. They bought a second account, 4 slots each--3 professions and a PvP. They spent extra money and, when new chapters were released, they were committed to buying two copies--one for each account.

Now ANet offers multiple slots. I, who waited, can get a few more slots at $10 each, and then for eternity only buy one upgrade each chapter.

And the people who "found a way to deal with it" by purchasing a second account?
They are doomed to buy two copies every release. $50 down the drain, that I am saving by having waited to purchase slots.

I want each of you who thinks I should just deal, or should get more accounts... I want you to find your friends who got multiple accounts. And I want you to see where 'just dealing' gets you. Others, like me, waited and kept asking ANet to provide for more slots--and at last, our cries were heard. All the naysayers who said DEAL WITH IT--BUY ANOTHER ACCOUNT IF YOU WANT MORE PLAYERS...

... yeah. You got pwned.

YOU can find a way to deal if you want. I choose to believe--like ANet did with slots, and things so simple as extending the events to allow for people to farm for, and trade in for, event helms--I choose to believe that ANet will listen here.

Stop shouting at me to deal. I AM dealing.
I'm not rolling over and shutting up. I ask for change.

SOME PEOPLE WAIT A LIIIIFETIMMMEEE FOR A MOMENT LIKE THIIIIIIIISSSSS
SOME PEOPLE WAIT FOREVERRRRRRRRRRR
FOR THAT ONEEEEEEEEE SPECIAL KISSSSSS

Moradkai's time is still coming IMO!


SRSLY THO,
Stop being a whiny little hobag, why shouldn't pve chars get extra perks? If anything, PvE chars are MUCH harder to get pvp worthy than a pvp char. This is even coming from an avid pvp player myself. If someone has the skill and micro coordination to switch armor and weapons, let them. All this unnecessary QQ'ing you're doing isn't contributing much.

3RD EDIT
AISOHDOAIHSAIOSHOIASOIA GHA YOU SUCK MAJOR

Why should pvp toons get all the advantages while pve's get none?

Go run a gimmick build while not switching your free pvp armor and free pvp runes, and using your free max weapons with free max mods and chosing from any elite from any profession without having to spend money and cap it.

actually i will give you a serious answer to that.

1 Anet said they wont sell anything that is an actual advantage to a person and making skills available doesnt.

now to your answer.

what you have now is not a small edge for extra work but a truly major imbalance.

consider this .

you can switch to gain 20AL physical than turn around to get +20AL elemental and then pick up some much needed emergency energy just by switching armor.

then you get into the extra 2 weapon/offhand slots and the difference is more than just a tiny edge

this is why i think being able to switch gives not just a tiny edge but an unjustifiablely balance breaking difference

/signed for armor storage, I'm in the same situation.

Now please justify pvp toons advantages over pve toons in pvp as described above. If it's balance you seek then pay for your skills/armor/mods like everyone else. If you havent purchased and captured every skill for every profession for every toon or purchased every armor set in the game for every toon, if you dont have an unlimited supply of perfect weapons and mods then your pve toon is gimped for pvp.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both, and that is the balance that exists in the present.

Even so Loviator hun you are going to tick off a whole crap load of pvpers if you take out their ability to be further customized for battles. GW caters to pvp too much to likely even concider that an option and I also agree that it would make for GG vs many of the meta builds. I think taking that out would just make it worse in HA or any of the other pvp areas.
If you hurt the pvp world you will hear screams that far outweigh the typical pve screams and thusly it would be mingled with those who play both very seriously. I seriously doubt that Anet wants to limit pvp like that when they are constantly looking for more ways to keep it going (huge rewards for gvg and such).


I'm all for paying ingame gold for more storage space even if I do think 10k a month is a bit steep, if I were any good at farming that wouldn't be an issue lol so I wont even argue the cost.
I am also all for some further way of doing free extra armor/weapons in strictly pvp areas. Doing so would call for less rerolls as well thus making things run faster and smoother. But just as such the runes, weapons, and armor gotten could not be sold or salvaged (it would be pvp armor/weapons).
I think either of these options would make most players pretty happy (granted you are still going to have whiners... See: guild hall npcs and costs -_- but then everyone got over that too once the cost was spent.)
But if it comes down to paying real cash.. they can kiss it, I cannot and will not pay for further storage with money that is better spent on living. (This is my own personal preference and no one need to adhere to it but me =P)

I actually totally agree with this. I also think Runes should be able to be double clicked off armor and re-applied to other armors. That would help alot with the cost of multiple sets of armor.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~

Quote:

I keep hearing the cry over and over. "Get more slots!" "Buy a mule!" "Everyone else has either bought another account or made a mule somehow." And the people who "found a way to deal with it" by purchasing a second account? They are doomed to buy two copies every release. $50 down the drain, that I am saving by having waited to purchase slots. I want each of you who thinks I should just deal, or should get more accounts... I want you to find your friends who got multiple accounts. And I want you to see where 'just dealing' gets you. Others, like me, waited and kept asking ANet to provide for more slots--and at last, our cries were heard. All the naysayers who said DEAL WITH IT--BUY ANOTHER ACCOUNT IF YOU WANT MORE PLAYERS... ... yeah. You got pwned. YOU can find a way to deal if you want. I choose to believe--like ANet did with slots, and things so simple as extending the events to allow for people to farm for, and trade in for, event helms--I choose to believe that ANet will listen here.

Again, I actually agree, although I'm not sure the comparison is apt. I'm pretty sure the $10 per character slot price won't change anytime soon.

In any case, once you buy a linked slot, it's your forever. It doesn't matter if you use it for a mule, or a role-playing character, or a PvP slot. It's yours and you can change it to your needs.

Which brings me to my point: Ask for change. Ask for more space. But in the meantime, that option is available.

Good luck.

I fully agree with the OP on this one. My Ritualist alone has 5 armor sets for various builds I use just in PvE. From Weapon builds, Item builds, Spirit Use Builds, and Energy dependant builds. This is just one character out of 6 characters I have. Now that armor alone is 20 items by themselves. Then there are the weapons, offhands, special items, salvage kits, Id kits and Helms.

Storage really needs an imporvement.

Storage does feel quite limited after a certain point. When you first start making characters, it's ample, but by the time you're creating multiple pve and pvp characters, then merging the two as per Red's Monk, things get more complicated.

I think a real issue that needs addressing here is the way the character selection screen is expanding, with both expansions, slots for purchase, upcoming bonus packs etc but the storage has only received one upgrade so far. If you assume all characters require storage, would it be beyond logically to suggest maybe new character slots (whether they be added via the store or expansions) increase the size of the storage. While some would still argue this isn't sufficient, it may be a possibility for helping the issue to some degree. It may also increase the appeal of purchasable characters slots (many of which are being used to mule characters, ironic no?).

Bottom line, storage was ample once upon time, when we were all chugging through Ascalon with our four character Prophecies accounts, but times are a'changin'.

Skill over time spent, yeah? Why should PvE characters get any advantages at all over PvP ones?

The point is they both have advantages and disadvantages. The only way to make them truly equal is to remove all differences. Give pve toons access to pvp weapons armor and all skills unlocked for an account for pvp and lock armor and reduce weapon sets to 2 for pvp.

Pve toons are gimped for pvp, really really bad. If you want more armors go buy it, and expierence the pain of trying to get a pve toon pvp ready, otherwise enjoy the vast advantages you already enjoy and realize there is a tradeoff between free fast disposable characters and slow expensive characters that can change armor.

so I ask your question to you:

Skill over time spent ya? Why should pvp characters get any advantages at all over pve ones?

The differences ARE the balance, the only other balance possable is to remove all differences as outlined above.

Yes please.

What? Why else would people USE them in PvP?

That tradeoff should not exist. It is an imbalance; the fact that you have to start at level 1 with a PvE character is a nonissue. PvE characters get one big advantage over PvP characters as it is: they can PvE.

They shouldn't. And don't.

would you explain how you come to this conclusion?

the reason i ask is i have multiple accounts and my mule is only chapter 1 and the main is merged.

i have 200 extra slots of storage and since my main account is merged all i do is meet my mule in Sardalac with a character in the main account and either trade if swaping a small amount or simply team up, zone and have the mule drop whatever i want and then pick it up.

only a few at a time so if i disconnect i only lose a small amount.

since i have only had 2 error 7 since beta its not likely but you never know.

i live less than 20 miles from the Anet servers so that might help some

but why do i need to add to the mule which is a one time cost and usable by me no matter the amount of additional chapters i get?

Loviator not everyone has ways to access both accounts at the same time - if I try to do it I have to pace from one end of the house to the other or have someone come and hold stuff for me. But say you are extremely interested in those other chapters, then you are stuck with choosing to pay more to get more and so forth. The way he stated that even when I read it was wrong. I also have my mule and our guild storage in chapter1 and it's a pretty big hassle for me personally (and yeah disconnects are far more rare for those living closer to the servers).
He may have a different response to you on that but those are my thoughts. He should have phrased or elaborated better/more on his thoughts.

i have them right next to each other here and i admit the mule is on a marginal pc i put together from spare parts but it works.

i dont understand the highlighted part there though as i am getting (and merging) Nightfall and dont see any additional cost from having the mule account as i wont be upgrading that this time around as well.

if my mind is fuzzy blame it on galloping senility (who just ran past me anyway)

It sounds like you dont think pve's should be allowed in pvp at all.

Free perfect weapons, mods and armor is huge. If I want to change my secondary for a different build on a pve I need to recap any elites I need, even though I have unlocked every skill for my account. You can use anything you have purchased at any time, pvp toons cant prchase armor. Changing armor mid battle may come in handy at times but is also a pain as it's a distraction from the battle.




Thick this one is. Going somewhere this discussion is not. Done I am.

From watching my brother and some other friends. They don't use their second account just for mules--my point was to compare this issue of needing more storage, with other people who needed more slots earlier. They were told to 'deal with it' and buy a second account... so then their first had a Warrior, Ranger, and Monk (plus PvP), and their second had an Ele, Mesmer, and Necro.

However, this meant that when Factions came out, they had to buy two copies of Factions if they wanted to get all of their beloved characters through the next game. And now, in order to keep all 6 original characters going through the new expansions--I'm sorry, stand alones--they're gonna need to continue to purchase double copies.

All because they "dealt with it" as best they could at the time...
... a situation only made insulting now that the rest of us can simply purchase additional slots. If they do this to consolidate to one account, they're still going to have to raise their PvE characters all over again because ANet seems to refuse to ever merge accounts.

My point is that "dealing with it" is an inferior option to lobbying for change. And, it is my conviction that whereas the lack of character slots was somewhat annoying, the lack of sufficient inventory management systems/slots is a design flaw that prevents us from utilizing the character slots we DO have to the fullest.

I agree with the OP and don't understand the premium GW places on inventory space. Even a high-end WoW raider with multiple full resistance sets, a damage set, a mitigation set, multiple weapons and offhands, quest items, and comsumables has room for quest items and loot in his inventory in the end-game. This is made even more roomy by the fact that each character has his own bank which can easily be expanded to over 100 slots. Granted WoW item sets require more than twice as many as GW, it is still much more managable.

I have the same problem. Anet really didn't think it through. You should be able to store customized items onto the character itself without having to waste valubale inventory space. Seriously, what's the point of customizing, just an extra 20% damage whoop dee freaking doo with my wand. I have one character PVE and it has all green prophecies mesmer items and a few canthan, and 4 sets of different armors and masks. Seems pretty worthless to me if I have to have another character to swap between painstakingly just to equip stuff and what not if I want to do PVE, which I've become less and less fond of lately because of Anet...

.-.

This thread is depressing.

It's an advantage, and it's one that should not exist. I don't know why you're not understanding this.

Attempts at clever images and insults don't detract from the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on. Sorry.

Because A-Net advertised this as a game where skill matters, not time spent. Time spent matters, as demonstrated by the number of PVE characters in high end PVP.

I just made one, you just have to enable them.

..... *heavy sigh*
Now try filling them up with four different weapons.

Storage is an issue in this game, especially coming from Anarchy Online where I can put stuff in backpacks & put a backpack in any slot. You can't put the packs inside packs, but rather just a 'bank' slot or inventory slot....so there would be a max, but at least you have more flexibility.

It's not so much of a problem with the items I carry on me, as I like the challenge of determining what I should take with me & what to leave. My problem is with the shared Storage. It absolutely sucks. There are probably several methods suggested, and I'm not too preferential, I just want more storage space, period.

I will suggest a few ideas that may or may not have been listed, I'm new & don't have lots of time to search the forums, but here are some thoughts:

• Allow the slots in storage to hold bags with their contents in them & if the Dev's are feeling really nice, allow them to be labeled. This way you could put gear for a certain build/setup in a bag & label it. This would also be more flexible than adding tabs for everything under the sun. I think the players can carry enough gear at one time for the most part, I just think of the storage as this huge crate you should be able to put a bag in each slot in the crate, this would probably be the easiest way to increase storage.
  
• Sell extra storage. I don't care if it's real money or in game money, I'll pay either way. If I could pay $5-10 to add at least 10 slots per character, I'd happily pay it. It would have to be a 1 time fee that would just expand the Storage chest at least 10 slots for every character from then on out. Even if you deleted, you get the extra slots on the new character. The other route would be to sell extra space for in game money. Why not have a Superior Rune of Holding or something that would give you even more storage than the regular one. I'd happily pay a couple plat for each rune. I'd also pay a few plat to expand the shared Storage crate itself.
  
• Guild Hall storage. You could give extra storage via guild halls....this could be like 'your home' where you can store more items. A guild hall specific storage that can only be accessed while in the guild hall. I think this would be nice yet realistic. We have to have a 'home' somewhere & we would be able to store all sorts of gear at home.

As for the collector items & dyes, it should be pretty easy to just add them to a tab like crafting materials or just lump them under the same tab & call it the 'stackables' tab....have crafting materials, collector items, keys, & dyes all in that tab.....

I'm an engineer in the other game I play so I'm used to keeping all sorts of things that drop for future use. Sure I can sell it since I can't keep much & convert those items to gold, but then I have to refarm them when I need them, or buy them from someone which is hardly ever convenient with the crappy trade setup in this game.

On a side note, I've never seen such spam in game chat like there is here, but again, the Anarchy Online community for the most part uses the right channels for trade & those that don't are put on ignore or scolded & directed to the right channel.

Being new to the game, it sucks to have to sell things to make room. I've tried to keep some items that I can use on future characters since I love to roll alts & try out new classes. This includes collector items, weps, off hands & runes...that's a lot of stuff to store, I even tried to roll one of each class to use for mules, but it's just a pain having to log each one to find stuff....simple solution, just make the main storage bigger or let the bags fit into storage slots with items inside the bags.

The other thing that really is lacking in my opinion in this game is some sort of player shop where you can sell your items while not in game. My suggestion for this would be to have it as some sort of addition to the guild hall where you have an 'auctioneer' you talk to that you can put items up for sale. You hand him the item, tell him how much you want for it. Then you could also talk to him if you were looking to buy an item. There could be a text search as well as some drop downs that you could select for what hand the item goes in, and what stats it has as well as a price min/max for the search.

Not only would this drastically reduce all the spam in game chat since no one has a CLUE as to what the trade channel is for, it would help people sell items that could be of use to others & also make gold for themselves. Put some sort of limit on how many items can be listed at a time like 5-10 items max listed at any one time.

/nominated for thread necro of the week

/nominated for topic necro of the month

use search as this and your ideas are ancient repeats

... or maybe we should be congratulating him on not making New Topic, but actually managing to find an existing thread and post in it?

Even if his ideas are repeats, the only way ANet will know our opinion is if we tell it to them. It does no good to say "well, someone else already posted my idea, so whatever".