Halves Casting Time (HCT) / Halves Skill Recharge (HSR) Stacking - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

08 Sep 2006 at 00:18 - 1

Q: I have a Holy Rod and Healing Ankh which both have Halves skill recharge of Healing Prayers spells (Chance: 20%) and Halves casting time of Healing Prayers spells (Chance: 20%).

What percent chance do I get now? 40%? 36%? What?

A: The game will check to see if each modifier triggers, so it won't give you a simple 40% chance for either modifier to trigger. Instead, the two chances to activate are independent and overlap.

With Halves casting time, you can get up to a 32% chance to halve casting time, and a 4% chance to quarter casting time.

With Halves skill recharge, you can get up to a 36% chance to halve skill recharge. There used to be quarter skill recharge, but it was removed in the July 13, 2006 update.

Percentage Table:

Code:

Modifiers	|Casting %		|Recharge %	|Avg Time %
1st %	2nd %	|Full	Half	Qtr	|Full	Half	|Cast	Recharge
----------------+-----------------------+---------------+----------------
20	20	|64	32	 4	|64	36	|81	82
20	15	|68	29	 3	|68	32	|83.25	84
20	10	|72	26	 2	|72	28	|85.5	86
20	 5	|76	23	 1	|76	24	|87.75	88
----------------+-----------------------+---------------+----------------
15	15	|72.25	25.5	 2.25	|72.25	27.75	|85.56	86.13
15	10	|76.5	22	 1.5	|76.5	23.5	|87.88	88.25
15	 5	|80.75	18.5	 0.75	|80.75	19.25	|90.19	90.38
----------------+-----------------------+---------------+---------------
10	10	|81	18	 1	|81	19	|90.25	90.5
10	 5	|85.5	15	 0.5	|85.5	14.5	|92.63	92.75
----------------+-----------------------+---------------+---------------
 5	 5	|90.25	9.5	 0.25	|90.25	9.75	|95.06	95.13

Average Time % is the approximate time it takes for your skill to cast/recharge with modifiers. The lower the number in this column, the better the combination of modifiers you have. For example, with two 20% Halves casting time modifiers, on average it'll take you 81% of the time it normally takes for you to cast spells. Just remember: lower is better.

~~~

Now, if you're interested in how it actually works from a mathematical perspective...

Formulas to calculate percentages:
1st % = modifier on one equipped item
2nd % = modifier on other equipped item

Casting %
Full % = (1 - 1st %) x (1 - 2nd %)
Half % = 1 - Regular % - Quarter %
Qtr % = 1st % x 2nd %
Avg Time % = Regular % + (Half % / 2) + (Quarter % / 4)

Recharge %
Full % = (1 - 1st %) x (1 - 2nd %)
Half % = 1 - Regular %
Avg Time % = Regular % + (Half % / 2)

Graphical representation:

Xaero Gouki Kriegor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Leather Rebels, (LR)

W/

11 Sep 2006 at 04:52 - 2

I love the title of this thread :P, nice chart, keep up the good work!

Mournblade

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

Houston, Texas

Dawn Treaders [DAWN]

W/Mo

11 Sep 2006 at 12:34 - 3

I'd have gone with a drop shadow instead of a glow on your title text, otherwise... what a wonderful post! Thanks!! =)

Poison Ivy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Toronto

Hopping

Mo/A

11 Sep 2006 at 13:24 - 4

Show off....

I mean great job, heh!

*ok shutting up*

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

11 Sep 2006 at 14:25 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mournblade

I'd have gone with a drop shadow instead of a glow on your title text, otherwise... what a wonderful post! Thanks!! =)

Happy now?!

Mr Crapsicle

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Consortium of Evil Monkeys (CeM)

11 Sep 2006 at 18:41 - 6

That's great work. Thanks for this. And just to be a pain - what does a 20/20 look like with a global 10/10 ? Or two +1 20% chances ? or.... maybe a this could be w.i.p. and hit the community works index ? Unless I've overlooked it, I don't see it there or I need more java...

Mournblade

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

Houston, Texas

Dawn Treaders [DAWN]

W/Mo

11 Sep 2006 at 19:14 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Happy now?!

You know it looks better, admit it! (I am .09% happier now, thank you for your efforts in that regard.

)

Sam Stormwind

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Dragon Knights

W/

11 Sep 2006 at 21:23 - 8

wow confusing i think i get it. Nice thread

ubermancer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]

11 Sep 2006 at 22:14 - 9

Check the 15/5 row.

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

12 Sep 2006 at 00:59 - 10

@ubermancer: Someone stole my 8's, I swear.

@Mr Crapsicle: see the chart at the bottom for what happens to a 20% modifier with a 10% modifier. And you can't get 2 +1 (Chance:20%) modifiers. If you could, it'd probably follow the same principle as dual 20% for casting.

Terra Xin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2006

New Zealand

Me/R

12 Sep 2006 at 10:57 - 11

so if you have two 20/20 mods, your spells cast 19% faster on average?

Did you know that the point of instantaneous casting is 1/8th^^?

ubermancer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]

12 Sep 2006 at 14:29 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

so if you have two 20/20 mods, your spells cast 19% faster on average?

Did you know that the point of instantaneous casting is 1/8th^^?

I have, through prodigious spamming of interupts, caught a Canthan boss's Spellbreaker (with Disrupting Chop). What 'point of instantaneous casting'?

ubrikkean

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

E/

12 Sep 2006 at 23:44 - 13

I'd think that the point of instantaneous casting is however far the program for GW can compute, a much shorter cast than possible in game anyway. The thing is, what the game has as "instant" casts, like a spell after Glyph of Sacrifice, have the same cast time as instants such as stances, but the difference is that it stops your movement when you cast, making it seem like there is actually a cast time and therefore a possibility to interrupt.

Terra Xin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2006

New Zealand

Me/R

13 Sep 2006 at 01:15 - 14

Quote:

but the difference is that it stops your movement when you cast, making it seem like there is actually a cast time and therefore a possibility to interrupt.

That movement halt is due to the effects of aftercast, which is a universal effect in all spells regardless of its cast time. GWiki wrote up an article about aftercast I believe.

Quote:

What 'point of instantaneous casting'?

The pointat which you experience no effects of casting, and the spell is casted instantly. Actually I posted a thread about this in the mesmer's forum... lemme grab the link:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10022189

ooo, actually I used the graphs on Gwiki for fast casting and then combined that with the properties of the 20/20 mod. The point of instantaneous casting I discovered to be 1/10th with fast casting required to be at rank 5 or more (again, with a 20/20 mod also.

now lemme think. if two 20/20 mods can reduce cast time of spells to 1/4 of their time.... then if you party it with FC at (lets just go with rank 16 until I can access the FC graph) you should be able to pull off instantaneous casting for 3/4 spells... roughly about 4% of the time.

I'll look into this more, I might have some information to supplement the OP^^.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

13 Sep 2006 at 04:02 - 15

Nice work. It really helps visually convey the point.

MAdnRisKy

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Requiem Lords

Mo/

13 Sep 2006 at 08:34 - 16

you can however interupt even stances so go figure

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

13 Sep 2006 at 08:44 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

you can however interupt even stances so go figure

You can't interrupt stances.

Karalin Taucher

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

UK

Beautiful Oblivion [EON]

E/Mo

13 Sep 2006 at 08:50 - 18

You cannot interrupt stances, but of course Wild Blow will knock an opponent out of a stance. If Wild Blow hit quickly after the stance had been activated, it could look a little like an interrupt.

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

MO

E/Mo

13 Sep 2006 at 11:08 - 19

math makes my brain hurt.

Myrslok

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2006

13 Sep 2006 at 11:23 - 20

Am I supposed to understand that? =S

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

13 Sep 2006 at 11:53 - 21

I didn't really want to delve into an explanation of how probabilities work; this is more just a refresher for those who don't quite remember how the probabilities of two independent events work. (It also makes it easier on me as I don't have to repeat the same thing in a dozen different threads.) If it's necessary to get the point across, I wouldn't mind adding another section.

If you don't really care how all this works mathematically, just ignore everything but the chart.

Shyft the Pyro

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

NYC, USA

E/Mo

13 Sep 2006 at 13:31 - 22

What to some is simple math to others is gibberish. Thanks for putting up this guide so that all the 13-16 schoolkids can understand that math is useful in "real life"

huMptY DumPty

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

[BAN]

W/

13 Sep 2006 at 16:38 - 23

nice article here ~ too bad quarter cast time is not possible anymore

and yeah ; you can't interrupt stances, but you can mimic, or wild blow it, etc.

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

13 Sep 2006 at 18:04 - 24

Quarter cast time is still possible, it's quarter recharge time that got nerfed.

Ristaron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Canada, eh?

Legion Of Valhalla

E/

13 Sep 2006 at 18:31 - 25

Wow... elaborate.

Personally I got all I needed out of the 'calculated independantly' and 'recharge nerfed to half cast time max'. All the same, very handy if something obscure comes up (or you have time to waste in wrapping your head around the charts).

Thanks.

kh1ndjal

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

Scouts of Tyria

13 Sep 2006 at 19:05 - 26

u can activate stances while being knocked down

ie, no cast time

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

14 Sep 2006 at 03:45 - 27

People, this isn't even middle school math... why do people complain about the math?

oRROhr

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsW

14 Sep 2006 at 08:28 - 28

Is there any pve rod (one hand) with that 20/20 recharge and casting on healing prayers?

I'm currently using brohn's holy rod + collector's healing ankh

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

14 Sep 2006 at 08:47 - 29

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Gertrud
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Telamon

oRROhr

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsW

14 Sep 2006 at 09:01 - 30

You owns Savio. Thx for this thread.

Kai Nui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Behind you with a knife

Celebrity Gangsters [FamE]

Me/

14 Sep 2006 at 17:51 - 31

Sorry, but this is complete bull shit. It's not hard to explain to the average person, and yet you failed at it miserably. You also seem to have forgotten to take into consideration that not only items can change recharge times, but skills can aswell.

I may have a 20% chance of halving recharge, what if I use Mantra of Recovery? I don't see anything like that answered here.

But wait, you say this is for Modifier Stacking and You? Hmm. Last time I checked there were more than the 20% faster casting and 20% faster recharge time weapon modifiers, which is quite disappointing. I was actually looking forward to seeing someone explain to the community the difference between an Icy Bow String and a Ebon Bow String. Apparently they don't count.

Thanks for the vauge and misleading thread that didn't fully explain how skills can be recharged.

Mournblade

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

Houston, Texas

Dawn Treaders [DAWN]

W/Mo

14 Sep 2006 at 18:27 - 32

Maybe because icy and ebon don't STACK? Sheesh, back off dude and listen to yourself before you slam someone who's trying to help.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

15 Sep 2006 at 02:44 - 33

Wow Kai Nui, didn't you /ragequit...come back, ...ragequit again?

Now you're bashing an earnest attempt to explain the modifier stacking to mathematically challenged people.

Anyhow, elemental mods have nothing to do with recharge. That, and skills don't have a a % CHANCE. They have a distinct % reduction so you can just multiply them, as they are 100% probability.

To put it short, only WEAPONS have % chance.

So let's say the 20% chance mod on your offhand activates, you just multiply that 1/2 by 1/2 from a mantra of recovery. This means 1/4 recharge.

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

15 Sep 2006 at 03:43 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

So let's say the 20% chance mod on your offhand activates, you just multiply that 1/2 by 1/2 from a mantra of recovery. This means 1/4 recharge.

Recharge is limited to half as per the update listed in my first post. That means Mantra of Recovery won't stack with modifiers.

EDIT: Might as well toss that into the first post.

Aeon221

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

[TEW]

N/

15 Sep 2006 at 23:50 - 35

Bugger. I had always assumed that GW simply counted the two 20%s as a single 40%.

Did you figure this out by testing or by assuming (most likely correctly) that the two items were seperate events?

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

16 Sep 2006 at 00:10 - 36

I tested recharge with RoF and cast time with Prot Bond. (It was too much of a hassle for me to record cast time and recharge at the same time.) The cast time is easier to determine with 2-second spells, as the differences between a half-second cast time, one second cast time, and two second cast time are fairly obvious.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

16 Sep 2006 at 00:38 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Recharge is limited to half as per the update listed in my first post. That means Mantra of Recovery won't stack with modifiers.

EDIT: Might as well toss that into the first post.

forgot about the update. My bad XD

dndhatcher

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

CA, USA

Gamers Pride

19 Sep 2006 at 23:22 - 38

I think you should add the 0% secondary numbers for comparison.
That way you have what you need to know to decide if the secondary casting/recharge percent is worth giving up some other intrinsic (like energy +5 while health over 50%) or not.

I believe a solo 20% item = 90%
and a solo 10% = 95%

Lord Darkforge

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Lions Arch District 1 - Storage Under The Tree

[Fear] The Undead Alliance [Fear]

W/Mo

21 Sep 2006 at 08:00 - 39

Don't understand it either. Sorry.
~
Lord Darkforge

Shika Xblade

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Exessive Messaging eM

R/Me

25 Sep 2006 at 03:06 - 40

testing this isnt exactly difficult. just playin the game will lead u to this conclusion: they dont stack as 40%, but, as independant events. This was a terrific page for people who aint none too smart (jk). The picture was a lil hard to comprehend but just lookin at the top line of the graph was enough to understand regular play.

darn... i wasnt aware of anets nerf of instant recharge due to wep/offhand chance etc. I remember a long time ago playin a warder and i got a 5 sec recharge on ward of melee with the 4% to 1/4 recharge. That made me happy. Sadly, cant be done anymore...o well.

Great article, keep us updated if anything changes !