News for PvP Players

Options are not always a good thing. You'll notice companies tell you so when they're adding options to drum up enthusiasm, but most of the time they'll hide behind the truth (funnily enough): Sometimes adding options will break the core design of the game.

Let's say every game ever has an infinite health cheat - ooh, an option you can use or not! But at the same time it'll basically kill the game's replayability appeal.

Now, in this particular instance, I don't particularly mind one way or the other. It seems like a weakening of the business model, and it does split the playerbase slightly (though not by very much). On the other hand, it's a requested feature that people have already stated they'll gain increased enjoyment out of the game from.

It may yet be a blow to Prophecies (and later Factions, but capping is a lot faster in Cantha) in the long term - the "deserted outposts" syndrome might be exacerbated... We'll see.
...Probably the most convincing argument so far. That brings my opinion around to 60% positive, or "Mild Approval With Some Reservations (tm)".

On the technical side, I'm perfectly happy with the explanation that withdrawing single class unlocks is necessary for coding reasons.

...I wouldn't suggest holding your breath waiting for a Nightfall unlock pack, though. ANet is presumably smart enough to wait for at least one ladder season (in wich Ch3 is legal) so as to - ahem - encourage people on the competitive end of PVP to buy the expansion right away. Why undercut their own product launch?

WTB Character Build Storage: $10 Dollars or 100k! Awesome way for Arena.net to make money! And a great benefit for PvP'ers.

Amen to that, but i doubt it because it's such a new addition. i would expect it though for other future installments, just my guess.

I wonder will the future pack include all of the new professions or be confined to the 6 core.

Whatever happened to the idea of earning those skills with faction? Before Cantha I had everything unlocked at 289k faction. Just by **GASP** playing the game. You condemn the ebayers and Chinese farmers but sell the very thing that shouldn't be sold. Some things should be earned. Just an old pvpers 2 cents.

Gaile, I realise that Pvp unlock packs only apply to Pvp characters, but what you are suggesting is that there will be a Pvp only version of the game.

If we buy the "full" game we wil have access to Pvp and Pve.
Someone buys Nightfall (full version) will have access to only Nightfall skills, but there are a number of useful Factions and Prophecies skills. If they don't want to buy the "full" versions of the previous two chapters, but still want to be an effective member of a Pvp team, what options do they have? Without the single profession unlock packs (they already have an account capable of Pvp after all) they can't do anything except: buy Factions/Prophecies and take a large amount of time to unlock the skills, or buy the Pvp edition and have TWO accounts.

TBH I don't want to have to Pve on one account and Pvp on another, and I think many gamers who actually enjoy both parts of the game feel the same way.

I would tend to agree. Except that as more and more games come out with more and more skills, new players will be so far behind that it will discourage most from joining. I think this is why there is a delay between the chapter being released and the skill pack being available to purchase. Also note that they are selling Proh skills now, and will offer factions later, but still havn't said anything about Core skills. You will still have to earn core skills, and if you want to be on the cutting edge, you will need to earn the current chapter skills.

It is not a PvP only version, per say, but it only benefits PvP characters. If someone buys Nightfall, and wants to use Prophecies/Factions skills in PvP, they can buy these packs and have all the skills on the same account. If they want the PvE side of Prophecies/Factions then they would have to buy the full game, but if they don't and only want the skills for their Nightfall PvP character they will be able to add the skill packs to it. There is no need for two accounts, because these skill packs can be added to any account.

That idea died when people took out their calculators and realized that it takes thousands of hours to unlock everything by faction alone.

From what I understand, it is effectively a Pvp only version.
The current skill packs can be added to accounts, but the impression I'm getting from the original post is that they will offer a "Pvp version" of the game. Now I'm imagining that it will be available to new players, so new players do not have to have a Pve version of the game at all. My reasons for this is the section where is stated "current unlock packs don't include the character creation". Depending on how they code it you might not be able to apply this "unlock" account to an already existing Pve/Pvp account.

My point though is this:
If (I say IF) we can add this unlock pack to our normal account, then Pve players who only need unlocks for one maybe two professions are going to be suitably out of pocket or else have to work away ingame to get those last unlocks for Pvp play.
If we CANNOT add this unlock pack to our normal accounts, then Pve players who enjoy Pvp, will be at a distinct disadvantage only able to use "iin-game" methods to unlock skills.

i usually play PVE and not PVP but i can still apreciate the great things this will do for the PVP going guild wars public. GOOD JOB ANET!

Great! That should be from the start! =D

One question that is on my mind:
If I purchase the PvP pack, do I get all of the skills unlocked and ready to use, or do I still have to unlock them the regular way?
I am asking this because the Factions Pack is expected to be released prior to the release of NightFall- meaning the pack is willl be available less than 6 months after the full game hit the shelves. There has been heavy critizism about the skill unlocks for Prophecies. One of the justifications mentioned was that the unlock pack was released over a year after the Prophecies, so people had plenty of time to unlock the skills, thus not putting them at a disadvantage compered to those who bought the unlocks.
But 6 months is hardly much time, even more so considering that not all players buy the game on day 1. Offering all Faction skills already unlocked will put the buyers at an advantage over those who have not bought the skills.

I think this thread needs the wisdom of Vindexus

Where are you guys getting these radndom notions? They are for SKILLS, all skills for all professions for that campaign. It is identical to the Prophecies six pack except for the fact that you don't have to buy the full retail version.


You seem to be inexplicably confused as well. You buy one of the packs, you gain access to all skill for all professions for that campaign. You'll have to buy the PUP for each campagin seperately. Us pve'ers don't get Nightfall free cause we bought Prophecies.

nice comic loki, good point. personally i'll just keep buying the campaigns as a whole but seems like a good idea. keep it up anet.

A question Gaile. Will ANet be selling "Guild Wars Core" keys over the net? That is, cheap account keys, with say 4 char slots. There will be NO content on these keys. Only an account. No access to a single skill, or PvE campaign. Now, what would be the purpose of this you ask?
Simple! As it is now, it seems people have to buy GWF or GWP to actually use the PvP Edition packs, since they have to log into an account to access the store. So, with GWC keys, people will be able to pay $10 for an account with no content at all, perhaps core skills available for PvP, and then buy the PvP Edition packs for $40 in the store, instead of first buying a full GWF account, and then adding the PvP Edition of Prophecies on. I am sure it will encourage a lot more new people who wanna join for PvP, but not pay for a PvE campaign, to start playing the game. And the more people playing the game, the more money for you, right?

_Zexion

Awesome.

Way too expensive to have to buy the unlock pack and the game if you decide after playing one chapter if you want to be competitive, this is better.

I still won't buy it as unlocking past chapters doesn't help most people who have seriously pvp'd, but even if you offered nightfall on release (never going to happen I guess) I enjoy pve *just* enough to justify grinding my skills.

A good change.

I'm on the opposite pole as you Lex, I hate the GW PvP game; but I completely agree with you on the point here. Those that do not like the PvE should not have to play it to get what they need to play. This topic has actually come up several times in other topics as well; "why should PvE/PvP be forced into playing something they do not enjoy?". Now the PvP crowd does not have too...

Now to extend this to the PvE crowd. Favor is a PvP "feature" and it is blocking PvEers from exploring and adventuring in UW/FoW. When America doesn't have favor and the PvEers complain about it, we are told to go PvP (win HoH). However, this same mentality holds true on skill unlocks in PvP; want the skills faster, go PvE (adventure and quest). When can we expect to see this favor system removed? It's all about balance after all, right?

Tut tut, you're thinking about it wrong. It's not when can we see favor removed; it's when can we buy access to UW/FoW at the online store?

Now selling Realms of the Gods access-o-matic. Go to the Underworld at any time! Buy your Fissure armor at your leisure! Farm spiders even when your region doesn't have favor! Only $9.99 for 100 trips to the best PvE areas in Guild Wars!

Ok...what i dont understand is why are you selling parts of the game even though you dont have to buy the actual game it self. It seems that anet favors the role-playing pve over the pvp portion of the game. I mean lets look at the facts here, you can go out and buy every single prophecies skill for pvp characters for 40$.. and like the post said eventually will be able to do the same for factions skills. Anet...seems like your just sellling the pvp portion of the game and if you are, why not just make it a seperate game like many ppl have asked for/ though about.
If pvp isnt secondary to the pve portion of the game, why cant i buy an unlock pack with all the green weapons for the warrior profession. Why cant i buy materials in an unlock pack, when you think about(i mean really look ouside the box here) it pretty much is the same thing.
If anyone has anything to say such as how these things are differnt, plz im all ears but i just want to know 1) Why can anyone go out and buy these skills even though they put no work and effort into obtaining them(other than rounding up 40$. 2)Plz answer my question about the pve content and why it is any differnt.

They are responding to a very heavy demand from pvP players. A UAS'd (though they wanted UAX'd) version of the game, PvP only, popularised by djWheats name of Tournament Edition. They have asked for this. For a long bloody time. And now Arenanet gave it to them.

Or, to be perfectly precise, ArenaNet gave them the ability to purchase it.

Welcome to the Guildwars community. ANet has always listened to reasonable requests, and the community has always responded by bitching and moaning.
Call me a fanboi, but this is the first game I've ever seen which have better support than the userbase fricking deserve.

Chris Blackstar]So let me get this staight. No more single skills to make way for an all professions skill pack, that will only let you play PvP.

I see two versions of each game, a PvP only version, that gives you all the skills unlocked for all professions or just the new profession? But never the less all skills unlocked.

Or you can buy the game itself, which gives you PvP and PvE, but no skill unlocks, you would have to use faction, in game gold with skill points, or just buy the PvP version as well, in which you would pay double, but that goes reverse also for PvP players who want the RPG version of the game as well.

Do you realize this will destroy your creation over time Anet. By seperating PvP, and PvE, you will create opposition on both fronts.

I bought the game orginally for both, now that they are soon to be seprated, I have a very improtain question to ask.

With a PvP and a PvE version of the games coming out, will the PvE version still be able to play PvP even know that version will not have any skills unlocked, or will it be strickly PvE?

THERE IS NO PVP GAME VERSION BUT ONLY A SINGLE FULL CHAPTER SET OF SKILL BEING (MAYBE) CALLED A PVP EDITION.

THIS IS ADDED TO THE EXISTING ACCOUNT NOT MAKING A NEW ACCOUNT.

IS IT CLEAR THEY ARE TALKING SKILL PACK NOT GAME?

EDIT

before anybody yells about this remember you need to have an account already to get into the store to buy the packs

if i am wrong Gaile will correct me

I'm a pve and agree. Not only that with the population of GW being spread out it going to more of a grind older chapters in pve (depending on how well henchmen work).

I won't pay for this (I don't pvp), but I think it's a great option and don't see this huring pve or pvp in any way. I can still get skills in pve and join pvp like I could before as well.

Gaile I wont buy PvE NiteFall, i will wait till u release the PvP edition, which imo should be together with your PvE release to be fair and avoid unballances in gvg.

Because, after 3000+ hours of play in retail alone, of which 2000 or so was spent grinding in PvE, when u said there was no grind in GW. I had to grind so I could have skills I needed to play GvG competitivly, which is the only part of this game I liked after beating the pve campaign once.

I think its unfair to expect me to grind further, let me play the game I like. Please release nightfall pvp editon so that im on a even playing field with people who storred up 250 skill points in pve and will be run through nitefall in to get UAS in 1-2 weeks we the help from thier Alpha Tester friends who know every mission in and out... If you don't release the pvp and pve edition at the same time its unfair to the people like my self who are completly burnt out on grind, and just want to GvG.

I dont think it is an unfair concept to release both at once, I think its fair because I beat proficies around 13 times to get uas before your faction was introduced, and even though I have grinded ( ground? ) more then most PvE players who would object saying it diminishes their hard work; and I have hateD PvE gameplay for over a year of that grind, only back in the beta pve interested me. The reason why this is fair, is no one else should ever have to go through what I did ever again in this game. I did roughly 2000 hours of grind, just so I could play about 1000 hours of gvg.....

Another reason is I shouln't have to grind anymore, have a heart please.... ( yes any PvE at all is a grind to me after what I've been through, at least untill you upgrade the Ai. )

And lastly, alot of pvp players like me refuse to play pve anymore, so you need to release something for us to buy, if u want our money.

P.S. pve guys, and I know there 2421342352356664643677346 thousand milliion of u here, I think u guys would also refuse to buy more Guildwars if u were forced to grind 2000 hours of GvG to play 1000 hours of PvE, so lets be fair 2 each other and remeber at one time i was also a PvE guy too way back in the Beta. <3

Well, at least now we can be half sure that ANET isn't on a money gouging route (50 Bucks for unlock only before? ) So Anet does listen....to the PvP player for now.

Now if only they get rid of the favor system and give UAZ(Unlock all zone) to PvE Chars and give temporary UAS to PvE char doing PvP and then i'll say they truly cares.

Anet ONLY listens to the pvpers. AS USUAL. Let hope this leads to a REAL pvp ONLY GW so they can nerf THAT version to hell and leave the pve version ALONE.

It wasn't originally 50 bucks, it is and has always been $40. The "worlds at war" system has come under much scrutiny since the beginning but it's here to stay and most people are used to it. Selling Unlock all zones would be contrary to the very concept of pve. Temporary UAS for pve characters doing pvp is not necessary. If you mean allowing them to use all the skills you have unlocked that could be reasonable, but if you mean just automatically have everything, that's a terrible idea. If they did what you suggest, I wouldn't say they truely care, I'd say they just wanted money so they give the community every little thing they whine about so they'll keep playing.

They mentioned that YOU DO NOT NEED TO BUY THE GAME IN ORDER TO PLAY AND BUY THE PVP VERSION, well how would you get an account, if say a new person just bought the PvP edition, with out buying the game, since now only the game will give you an account, unless a friend gives you a trial account after buying that game?

Something that's actually useful, woot! I know plenty of PvP players who were disgusted by factions PvE, so if nightfall flops as well, instead of not buying the game at all, they would simply get the skills for PvPing.

This is something I would be interested in, because I do not feel like purchasing Factions and if I did I probably wouldn't PvE much in it if at all. So saving some money and getting the same thing is a great idea.

I like this idea. For one, because I've never spent much time unlocking skills, but I have enough to survive on for the classes I enjoy. Maybe sometime in the future I'll buy the packs, just so that I can play any build I want to, but for now, I'm fine the way I am. I still approve of the idea so that new players can dive straight into PvP, the one thing I keep coming back for after I've gotten bored of the campaigns!

The not having to buy the game came from the fact that as of right now, you have to own Prophecies in order to buy the Prophecies skill pack. People complained because new players that wanted to have these skills would have to buy the Prophecies+Prophecies skill pack, Factions+Factions Skill pack just to catch up. They changed it so that say a new player comes in durring Nightfall, they can buy nightfall, and then only have to buy the other skill packs, not the full game plus the skill packs. You will still need to have one of the main games, but it doesn't matter which one, as you can just buy the skill packs for the rest.

Seems like a way to screw people over. I could have unlocked all mesmer skills and monk skills, but none of the warrior skills and a few elementalist skills. If I buy this, they're charging me for skills I've already unlocked when I just want to unlock warrior skills with money and do elementalist through manual unlocking by playing. A major ripoff. Especially considering they're not allowing you to do it with factions skills, why not? Makes no sense except to screw over players imo. What the players really will need is something for factions and one released at the same time as Nightfall. Of course that's not going to happen.

Does anyone really think it's fair to have factions out right now without a pvp version at the same time? It really just causes people to either be behind for a year without access to skills, or buy the pve edition and grind through unlocking all the new skills. Either way it still sucks for the actual PVPer. Do you really think serious PVPers actually benefit from this pack? If you do, you are badly misguided.

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but I'm still not so sure the actual logic behind removing the single-class unlocks. My thought would be to cater to as wide a market as possible (and it seems like Anet is just giving themselves more work by phasing out). I'm speaking only business 101 here .

People who would want single-class unlocks are probably:
- Casual gamers who don't clock so many hours into GW
- Players who love certain professions/characters so much they never play a different class.

Granted, I haven't actually bought any unlocks since I'd rather work for them :P...so I don't know how they work exactly. But still, I'd say that by phasing out the single-class unlocks you hurt a bit of the market that already has the game but doesn't spend time unlocking every single skill. Plus I don't see how it'll screw the current programming over by introducing the PVP versions of Prophecies/Factions.

Please enlighten me :P

You know, that reminds me: I only like to watch TV shows on a tiny fraction of the available cable channels, yet my cable company charges me for nearly ALL the channels, even the ones I don't want to watch. The cable company clearly has no reason to do this other than the fact that the cable company hates me, personally, and will do everything in its power to make my life miserable.

Sometimes, I go to the bookstore and browse through the mystery novel section. I only like to read the last few chapters of a mystery, because that's where all the secrets are revealed. But the dastardly bookstore refuses to sell me just the last few chapters; I have to buy the WHOLE book even though I won't read most of it. Clearly, the bookstore is only interested in screwing me over.

The other day, I went to the grocery store to buy some cereal. I really only wanted a bowl's worth of cereal, but the grocery store charged me for the whole box. So unfair!

Absolutely not! I would never, ever, ever give up on or abandon Tyria! Dear lord, no! What we want is that the players in any region be there for fun, and not out of some requirement that they be there to get to where they really want to go. We want the drive to the destination to be as fun as we can make it, as fun as the destination itself. UAS for those who want it is a good thing. And leveling and acquiring skills the old fashioned way is still, in the opinion of many (probably the majority), the best way of all to get to that destination.

Cut the QQing. Take a look at the content division of content in each new chapter - PvP gets new classes, new skills, and a couple of new maps, whereas PvEers get those plus an entire campaign. Add in the extras that Anet provides (holiday events, new skins), and I don't think that the PvE community should be whining about Anet not caring about them.