News for PvP Players

(Sorry if someone else posted either of these, I don't have time to read over the thread right now)

Two things:

First of all, for those of us that have both Prophecies and Factions and have bought one of the unlock packs, what will happen when you phase out the unlock packs? Will we still keep the skills that are unlocked? I noticed that instead of just unlocking the skills it goes under the extra keys I have attached to the account.

Second thing...
When was the last time you hung out in LA ID1 answering questions? When was the last big event Tyrian-only? (Some of the events seemed fairly Canthan-only so it is only fair if Tyria gets something)

it was stated that they would be full supported in future chapters

Well since this IS PRIMARERLY a PVE game. We should get the majority of the content. And I suppose pvpers NEVER do the holiday events or use the new skins either. So try again.

The reason I saw that anet ONLY listens to pvpers is because any time they complain or moan about something that effects BOTH pvp and pve they ONLY listen to the pvpers. EG the EOE nerf.

I love the idea of the pvp pack. But I think pve in older chapter such as tyria and cantha will suffer, 15 henchies and 1 real player for a mission is horrible, unless we can somehow use our customized "heroes" in Nightfall. Also I would like to see more use for my balth factions. Lastly, I would like to know if by any chance my assasin & ritualist will get any new skills?

the PVE people screamed bloody murder and some of them quit over the AOE fix that affected their farming . (the farmers screamed that it was a farming nerf not a fix)

PVE gets a ton more content that the pvp people dont even want to touch.

and most of the skill ballances are about even between buffs and nerfs.

the only ones that get attention on the PVE side are the ones that have an effect on how someone farms an area not how they play the game as in play the game without farming

What's wrong with the EoE nerf? In PvP it made facing IWAYs in halls super annoying, and it was a tactic that worked vs. pretty much anything. In PvE it made killing mass afflicted, or even Grawl, cheesily easy. It's the same as the AoE nerf that gave monster AI half a brain where they previously had none. I like the challenge.

Also, since when is guild wars primarily a PvE game? I myself think of it as a game geared mainly towards PvP instead. It's just the way I view it because a lot of my GW hours were spent in PvP. We're both wrong though. It's a game geared toward both.

I think the EoE nerf is a poor example and doesn't really give me a gist of other instances when skills/features were changed that affected both PvP and PvE? When are these times when ANet "always" listens to PvPers and ignore PvEers?

It's true that many of the skill balances are the result of PvP imbalances that need to be changed in order to keep PvP interesting. But I don't think these changes affect PvE play to a very observable extent. The PvE content, as of now, is still on the easy side of things. It's silly PUGs and silly Alesia [Healer Henchman] that make PvE troublesome. Gameplay in PvE may sometimes be slightly changed because of skill balances, but unless you're cheesing an exploitable build that's making the game way too easy, I don't see why you have a reason to start complaining, and you don't have the right to either if you're cheesing

I haven't seen someone say this, so I will (and I don't pvp anyway, so I am not affected nor care how Anet markets and sells the PvP portion - the more money Anet gets just means that I get to play longer on the servers for my $60.00 purchase of each chapter - the fun to dollar ratio for me is well on my side of the balance from my view):

The issue from what I see isn't that they are limiting choices, but rather what I would suggest is a bungle by the decision makers in Anet - offiering the single class packs in the first place. Now they have to take them away to do what they *should* have done in the first place.

Perhaps it was an experiment to see how it would work, or maybe this is just another iteration of the "new formula Coca-Cola" effect. Either way, no one would be saying diddly if Anet had just come out with the "PvP All In Wonder Action Pack". The right hand didn't know what the left was doing, as surely SOMEONE knew both the "single class" and the "all-class" packs were in the works.

It's great news about the skill packs, its great now that I don't have to take my furthest PvE character in the game change his profession and cap elites mindlessly over and over again so props to anet on that one.

Their taking away the single profession purchase, I'm sort of unhappy with that not for myself but for other players who may need just one profession to have all the skills at their disposal but still anet are saying to get them now, their giving notice so no one should really have any right to moan.

about the comments I saw that 'buying skills will kill old versions of the game.' seriously its the new games that are breathing more life into the older versions of the game which is keeping it going. It's bringing back new professions or skills to key farming areas or seeing how the new characters fare in other continents or just wanting to re-do missions there will always be people there. Hell there will always be the odd case of you and all henchmen but nothing is ever perfect.

All I can say is it's just another case that anet listens to and should be thanked. Well thats my opinion

QFT

There will always be complainers from either side (PvE/PvP) but I for one think that at the end of the complaining it will be reasoned out by the community.

At the end of the AOE nerf, all I have to say is PvE got more tactical.

Same with EoE, MMs, Prot Bond, etc.

I do both PvE and PvP, I enjoy both tho I am better at PvE (it is easier and my guild isn't much of a pvp guild, and a good PUG is hard to find).

I understand people who ONLY PvP wanting these packs and to an extent I am fine with them. However, I do not think Nightfall should be released with a PvP unlock along with the chapter itself. It would NOT balance those who don't want to grind to get the skills, to me Guild Wars is hardly a grind, it is more of a play the game and earn things along the way and it really can work this way, especially when Faction was added.

Yes you won't get to have the things you want NOW, these packs make that possible and are great for catching up with others, but releasing a new chapter and instantly making the skills availble for PvP only players does NOT bring them on even ground with PvErs (or people like me who love both). What this does is put those willing to spend the money so far ahead of those who just bought the newest chapter that it really creates an unbalanced pvp system and makes it to where buying those packs is almost a necessity to keep up, this is where it must be limited in my opinon.

If it were my business model I would release the chapter, 3 months later release the skills, 3 months later next chapter etc.

Furthermore it seems like there is almost this feeling of black and whiteness to the subject of PvE and PvP, like a person can't enjoy doing both and to me that is how this game should be geared, to making both appealing to play.

I am not against unlock packs as a whole, just on the fact that it shouldn't be released along side the newest chapters. It kind of spoils it for those who want to actually play the game both PvE and PvP (not just one or the other).

I know this is my first post, but I have been playing since the E3 For Everyone Preview Event, I feel that ANET is easily one of the best companies out there and have always listend to customer concerns, I do have some problems with things they've done but for the most part they tend to cater to everyone they can within reason of course.

(I am highly disappointed in the way Tyria feels abandoned by the company more than anything else. Canthan only events are fine, but they should be balanced by some for Tryria only in alternating weeks and of course some for all. New content would be nice but with the 6-month cycle on Chapters I can see where it would be hard to do)

Great! I cant wait to get all the PvP factions unlocks!

I already have Nightfall CE on Pre Order, If your offering the first 2 chapters PvP unlocks I was wondering will the Nightfall PvP unlocks be released soon after Nightfall becomes live?

I play both PvE and PvP so this really helps people like me to catch up on PvP unlocks. The PvE side of Guild Wars is my first love. Ahhh the good old memories of the end of beta testing and the fireworks show..

Thanks for the great additions to Guild Wars! Hope to see many more in the future.

Well since the AOE FIX was just that a FIX. It can't be really called a nerf. I for one saw it for what it was correcting a mistake in the AI.

Just like when they corrected the mistake in that knights armour provided a global reduction of damage and not just to the area it should of. This was NOT a nerf. The changeing of + armour to + physical armour WAS A NERF.

90% of ALL nerfs are because of moaning pvpers and thier inability to beat the current FOM build.

Please tell me ONE time PVE has got buffs because a nerf in pvp. There are NONE as any changes in skills effect BOTH parts. Hench the reason this game should be split into a pve and pvp parts.


As I've said before if one of the lead designers of GW said this WAS PRIMARERLY a PVE game. Then thats what IT IS. If pvpers don't want to use content thats for both pve AND pvp thats THIER problem. Its thier for ALL to use.

I like the idea..simple as that

Gaile, you're going to have some sore fingers and a sore head after you have finished with this thread good luck.

Just to make myself crystal clear, I am NOT against pvp unlock packs, actually I think that they are a good idea, all things considered.

However a number of matters have NOT been made clear.

1. Do you actually need to own any version of the game?
I got the impression the answer was no, I could be wrong and I would like this cleared up.

2. Will Tournament be incompatible with Normal?
I got the impressions the answer was yes, I could be wrong and I would like this cleared up.

3. Will the Tournament version be available at the same time as the Normal version?
I got the impression the answer was no, and I hope that it remains this way.

Guild Wars is not primaril PvP or PvE. It is both. What was said recently is more accurately that Nightfall has a greater PvE focus than previous campaigns. That does not change the fact that Guild Wars is a game that is designed to offer fun and interesting gameplay to as many players as possible ... be they PvP, PvE or a little of both.

Now as far as nerfs/buffs of skills, I think many players tend to wear a set of blinkers. If it affects them, they remember it. If it does not, they more easily forget it or don't even notice it to start with. Further, a nerf that affects you is more likely to be remembered (due to your initial reaction) while a buff is often forgotten over time.

In the history of Guild Wars there has been a lot of changes to skills, AI, interface that have affected game play. Some of the changes are to help balance out PvP and may have had an adverse impact on PvE. However to say that the same has not happened the other way around would be wrong. There have been changes to PvE that have adversely affected PvP at times as well. Over time, though, there have been *far* more skills improved in some way that toned down, and those improved skills often see more use in PvE than PvP.

AoE nerf was the best update...where is the fun playing against mindless drones..?

now if you made SS an AoE skill..things would get even more interesting

Love the change. With NWN2 supposedly being released in October, was trying to figure out how I'd budget my time playing both while still unlocking all skills.

Have a question though. Lets say I purchase the Nightfall Tournament edition, but then find out there's some sweet looking 15k mesmer armor that I just *have* to have. Will I have to go out and buy the Standard edition or will there be some kind of discount PvE edition I can buy?

Now if only PvP chars could have access to the various vanity goods, I'd have no reason to PvE at all. Won't happen I know, but I can dream

Galie although I like this idea I think the team would be better off working on things like an auction house and more rp elements to the game and more people would appreciate it just my 2 cents

with good reason, vanity items come with a price, spending time in PvE grinding/playing with the rest of us.

lol the auction house thing again this is in the pipeline..patience is a virtue

Hehe, I don't mind grinding. I'd just rather grind PvP style (faction farm or whatever) than PvE

Sorry, I think you are equivocating there. I honestly can't think of a single instance where a change to PvE has adversely affected PvP. Let's look at the major changes to PvE:

• Introduction of the area-of-effect chicken run: maybe affects henchway, but I can't really see how it's an adverse effect.
• Introduction of green items: for a brief period in time greens such as Victo's Bulwark were a good choice for PvE chars being used for PvP. But whatever the effect, it only equalized the field - hardly an adverse effect on PvP. There are a small number of greens that are used in odd situations in PvP (Geoffer's Bulwark for anit-rspike, Malinon's Shield for anti-vimway), but these instances are vanishingly few and again can't really be seen as an adverse effect on PvP.
• Removal of mildly unbalancing quest items such as the Nolani wand or the pre-nerf Fiery Flame Spitter. The effect on PvP was miniscule at best, and arguably it made the PvP game fairer.
• Removal of the HoD sword: OK, maybe the only real PvE change that can be argued as having an adverse effect on PvP as it created an elite class of players who had a HoD sword. But that's mostly because they weren't properly removed like the Nolani wand (that is, removing existing copies as well). Can hardly blame a change to the game for what was basically a policy decision made by ArenaNet, and in any case it's ancient history now.
• Uhh... that's about all I can think of that's a purely PvE change.

Every other skill or item nerf in this game has been because of PvP balance. If I'm wrong, give me one example to substantiate your claim that:

[t]here have been changes to PvE that have adversely affected PvP at times as well.

Great option for the hardcore pvp players, and also for those who pve mainly and would like to get into pvp, but don't have the skills unlocked they need to create some of the builds used. I like this idea a lot.

Don't put words in my mouth, its rude. I wasn't making a stab at all, simply clearing up your candy coated statement.

The AoE "fix" still isn't fixed though. Mob AI flee even if taking no damage from an AoE; while all other AI, henchies and those wierd NPCs in cantha city areas just stand there wondering why they are dieing.
The AoE "fix" would have been a "fix" if it effected all AI. As it was and still is, a broken code and did nothing but "nerf" the players ele class. Once the henchies are as smart as the mobs when it comes to standing in a "wow fire from the sky, think it will hurt?" AE, then it will be a "fix".

EoE was also not fixed, it wasn't broken to begin with. I never farmed with it, but I did use it while out with henchies to soften the targets as I went out. Often it would backfire as henchies would do something dumb, but it worked as it was said too. Now, there is no use for it unless I build my character around it, thusly forcing me into yet another cookie cutter build situation.

I say the above in hopes maybe Anet is seeing the different tastes in gaming and will be finally seperating PvP and PvE in more than just purchasable paks. Perhaps we will start seeing changes to PvP exploited skills changed in PvP only, and exploited skills in PvE changed in PvE only without making the skills useless on the other end. Anyone looking at the skills now can see that they are balanced for level 20 players, not dumb level 28 mobs... and they have to be dumb (which makes them easy) so the skills can't be tweaked and reworked cause they will off balance the PvP end.

As for other thoughts and concerns:

With these paks I see the word "options" and "requested" coming up. I will also bring up "content" and "features" to combine with those.

The players have been requesting "features" (such as storage and UaS) for some time. We were told that global "features" would be free and available to everyone. This did not hold true with the material storage and we were told to pretty much STFU about it. Now, we are starting to see other "features" being added as "content" (which we already paid for*) and "options". This concerns me and others I have spoken to about this, as many "features" such as changing the characters appearance should not be something we are made to pay for. UaS is a feature, not a new content purchase nor is it something new. It is a nice addition, but so would being able to change one's appearance... see where this could be going?

*Some players already purchased Factions (for example), now they are paying for nothing new; just to suddenly have all the cards (like going to a MTG tourney and paying to use specific cards that you already have, but you haven't opened that pack yet).

Like I said, it's a nice addition for those that will use it. I give Anet applause for making it happen as it was asked for. I am just hoping and wary that many future requested "features" are done the same way. Content, I would pay for, new quests, missions, things that take time. Features... I'll be looking for a new game to sink my time into, if I am required to start buying features for my characters.

P.R. speaking = Good choice! This is a way to make pvp players happy, while making some extra cash off of old campaigns. aka (prophecies)

Economically speaking = Bad choice for profits, since this will encourage pvp players to not buy future expansions; rather they will purchase the cheaper and therefore less profitable pvp packs instead. Pvp people generally come from the "hooked on G.W.'s because they've spent 100's of hours playing crowd," so you're basically giving those who are most likely to buy future expansions (since they're addicted) a way to save money because they've already burnt out on pve.

Questions - Will the increase in profits though these packs outweight the loss of profits that is inevitable to occure though less overall Chapter sales?

Take the percent people leaving G.W.'s who are pvp characters and compare to the % of pvp people who continue playing since these packs are availiable. (this is all positive profits)

Now subtract the % of pvp people who don't buy the full game because they can get the cheaper skill packs. (that's very negative profits)

Minor variables:
% of new sales caused by the retained pvp people who would have quite
% of sales lost by the people who would have bought the full game and maybe be revitalized on pve and then convinced more friends to buy the game.
% of people who.... It's 1:00 in the freakin morning! why on earth am I trying to think at this hour of the night? GL GW I hope you make lots of $ so you'll keep making future chapters for me to play

Basically i was trying to say that price discrimination will only increase profits if you're using it to capture sales from those who are on the boarder line of purchasing (NOT in the GW is CRACK crowd) Note- you've already incured the cost of creating the game and server expenses should be basically the same if they've playing pvp or pve.

PvE doesn't need balancing - monsters don't innovate. Anet balanced them when the game was created and the monsters still use the same skills in the same way today as they had last year.

Players in PvP, however, find ways to abuse skills and if this abuse isn't stopped, all hell can break loose and ruin the game. The most serious case I can think of were spirit spam builds in Tombs last summer. That's why there are hardly any things that need rebalancing in PvE: the only one I can think of are prot bond and minion masters.

So, PvE doesn't need as much tuning as PvP does because of its nature. If that somehow seems unfair to you, go play World of Warcraft, or another MMO which doesn't give a damn about PvP and stop whining. Thanks.

I'm sorry but PvE players pays just as much as PvP players so we should get as much as pvp does. If anything its the PvP people that whines the most, just look at the toucher nerf thread everywhere and all the complains about pup needs to be UAX and with each chapter blah blah.

The nerf to minion masters. It completely killed the effectiveness of the Rift 2 E/R + 1 N/R + 1 W/R + 1 R/W build. If minions weren't nerfed, they possibly would see play in the current kgyu build on the Tainted necro instead of putrid.

Good choice for profits, it will stop PvPers from rage quitting the game at the thought of having to grind out more skills every expansion. Most likely it would also draw in new/returning customers from the competitive gaming crowd who originally shied away from GW due to the forced PvE/faction grind. Generalizing PvPers as addicts who continue to play because they have invested so much time into the game is rude and innaccurate.

No, the PvE community shouldn't, and by and large isn't. The people whining about PvP getting too much attention are farmers. You can tell by their demands: bring back the old monster AI, remove area unlocks, make running and powerlevelling easier, don't fix exploitable bugs & glitches.

Farmers may be active in the PvE world, but they're sure as heck not the PvE community.

I enjoy PVE and PVP and will continue to unlock the skills the old fashion way but have no objections to this being an option if people are prepared to pay.

Just a thought though, can you provide an online ‘how to play’ guide for all those newly acquired skills/new PVP characters

I think this pvp-only GW system is an excellent idea, and could benefit pve-only players.

Many of the Factions complaints were geared towards the skill-aquisition method and rushed pace of the game. This, no doubt, was liked by pvp players that wanted to unlock as many skills as possible with little "grind". Now, an even better option for pvpers comes along, allowing Anet to go to town on pve (long game, leisurely pace, rewarding skill-aquisition system). I hope they see that.

It's a real shame Anet wants to secure and make a profit off of it's targert market.

Here is an idea for all you free market consumers. Don't buy the game if you don't want to. Guild Wars isnt some state sponsered entertainment program for nerds.

PuPs are a good enough idea.

Things like buying skills for PvP is really giving me a bad impression on the company. I mean i unlocked all the skills through faction, which did take me a while but it was worth playing PvP for. Things like this make all that effort feel like nothing. It's like intreoducing Gold to buy in the store when people work hard to earn it, you go and make it avaliable via bank transfare.. sad, really.

How hard is it to learn to play PVP? Can a new person "really" just hop into the pvp crowd right from the start? Try getting into a HA group without having rank. I did not say PvPers wouldn't quit after playing a lot. I was indicating that they were less likely to quit after having played that much. It is an opinion, but a possibilty none the less.

Reading some of these dramatic little posts... haha "ANet shoots self in foot"-- WHAT?? lol

Some of these little emo brats cry everytime there is an update or new idea. Although for those few people who bought a single class unlock already, they will definately feel 'used'

My personal opinion on the matter is that it is way too easy to unlock any skill/item that you want in just an hour of PvP matches.

I think offering a PvP edition is fine- I even made a post about it a couple weeks ago. Some people are convinced that buying Factions is pointless aside from using a ritualist, so this will give those particular people a chance to do so without enjoying as I did the PvE story.

People who complain about grinding, for some reason dont like Factions' quick pace either?

I dunno ANet- some people will hate you now matter what you do for them, but Ill be behind you until the day you take your servers offline.

If everyone was a balanced pvp/pve player like me, they would only ever need to buy the Chapter expansions anyway... But for those who only ever do HoH I guess being able to use IWAY as a group-finding method can do so just as easily.


I think any real fan of the game will just keep getting the expansions, where as the people who dont stay long- well, itll give them something to suck on for a while before they go back to whatever game they normally play.

ON THE SKILL UNLOCKING-
Do you think that you will allow the Skill Trainer at the Guild Hall will ever allow us to get ANY SKILL WEVE UNLOCKED rather than core skills that I know half of at level 10 anyway?

Don't generalise the PvP community by the retards that only play HA. If a new person jumped on an IRC channel (that's a problem with guild wars, not the PvP community, communication outside of 'LFG ****' in PvP areas gets lost by people trying to play) and talked to the PvPrs, played in some low PuGvGs, guested for some lower ranked guilds, and just became one of the 'crowd' then it's alot easier for them to get into PvP. I know, because that's how I got into it.

so youre saying you would rather spend 40 extra dollars instead of the 'real' experience youve had with it? I dont understand the point of you posting at all.

Its nothing like gold. Thats rediculous.


pve players get a lot more than pvp players.

please tell me one single thing that pvp-only players can get that a pve player cant.

???

You want to know how I nerf the toucher? Dwarven Battle Stance. Done.

That wasn't done because of PvE. Sorry. That was because of ABs, which last I checked was PvP.

Sweet, the way things are going I cannot wait to buy my level 20 Dervish in full 15k Armour from the Guild Wars Store.

But really, why should PVP players have to put less effort into attaining skills and mods than pve players. Not that I really care either way, though it seems a bit unfair that people can just buy whole sets of skills at there leisure with a few clicks of a button.

This is the only MMoRPG i've played where the company wants players to buy there content . It's sad if people play this game just so they can buy all the content with actual money and have everything laid out for them on a platter.

Then again I was not aware people bought this game JUST to pvp. The pvp is good in small doses, yet quickly becomes boring, especially if your on a loosing side.

This system of unlocking skill packs could have been implemented within the game, and be available to players with a certain amount of Faction points.

It seems to me that the only way Anet can hold onto there player base is to baby the lazy players. tsk tsk tsk.


*Extremely tired right now, so ignore the spelling mistakes and take what i've said as a grain of salt.*