Was jsut thinking of this and possibly not the first person to do so... but overall i believe to the majority of experienced players that caster weapons/primary/secondary is the overall best caster setup...
I personally am discusted with most of the wand and staff skins and definately enjoy the flavor of uniqued skinned +5e weapons...
my question is though... is why hasn't it been concieved that some casters strive to be up close combat and to that mater why aren't their caster style melee weapons??
examples
Necro - Sacrifical Daggers, Blood Knives, Claws
Mages - Daggers, knives
Ritualist - Clubs, Knives
with actual weapon requirements of caster skills???
you cannot honestly say that melee weapons with caster att requirements would be overpowered and unbalanced... comon now they are squishy... but would be great for when my weapon rit is up there smacking something with a sword for it to mean something without RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing my secondary out to warrior... cuz lets face it really W secondary is just weak(yea its my opinion, but someone has to agree with me :P)
lets not forget too that with Nightfall war type classes are gonna get ranged with the Paragon or AoE with the Dervish....
so meleers are getting more like casters yet casters are still just casters...
I know you anti caster haters out there gotta love this little fad...
Caster Weapons!... maybe some caster love?
sinican
Zinger314
When, in any RPG, have casters use anything other than wands and staves? (Don't be a smart-alec and say +5 Energy swords, those are different.)
The Shadow
What would be the purpose of this... to expand an already vast GW arsenal? The wands & rods carried by casters do cause damage (11-22 if max). These weapons cause damage at range as well as up close. If all your caster had was a meele weapon of some sort, then your weapon mandates that your "squishy" is right up in the middle of the fray, which we all would agree wouldn't be good. I can see what you're saying if the mob comes to you, but (as previously stated) your wand/rod does damage up close.
Although, I think it would be awesome if you're targeting an enemy at very close range, your caster would take the wand/rod and bash the enemy over the head (something like a 20% chance for like 5-10 dmg) (maybe that bash could carry a knockdown or interrupt
). That would be a riot.
/not signed
Although, I think it would be awesome if you're targeting an enemy at very close range, your caster would take the wand/rod and bash the enemy over the head (something like a 20% chance for like 5-10 dmg) (maybe that bash could carry a knockdown or interrupt
). That would be a riot./not signed
Mammoth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
When, in any RPG, have casters use anything other than wands and staves? (Don't be a smart-alec and say +5 Energy swords, those are different.)
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Esprit
In Champions of Norath, a PS2 RPG, my mage uses a club to beat the living snot out of enemies.
Keep in mind that Rangers, Assassins, and Warriors, rely on their weapons for damage, it's their medium for damage. Whereas casters do their damage via spells and skills, not their wands, staves, and offhands.
Keep in mind that Rangers, Assassins, and Warriors, rely on their weapons for damage, it's their medium for damage. Whereas casters do their damage via spells and skills, not their wands, staves, and offhands.
Trvth Jvstice
There are a few builds that allows casters to use weapons, but I think they all have warrior as secondary. The ele and mesmer have armor buffs that allow them to fight in mele range. But, They would be a poor second to any viable warrior build.
If I understand the OP correctly he wants caster mele weapons that have max dmg without using warrior as their secondary profession. And I agree with The Shadow, traditionally casters are supposed to use wands or staffs to deal weapon dmg.
Honestly, the only time a caster is relying on his weapon to deal dmg is when he's letting his energy regen.
If I understand the OP correctly he wants caster mele weapons that have max dmg without using warrior as their secondary profession. And I agree with The Shadow, traditionally casters are supposed to use wands or staffs to deal weapon dmg.
Honestly, the only time a caster is relying on his weapon to deal dmg is when he's letting his energy regen.
Feminist Terrorist
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Originally Posted by The Shadow
Although, I think it would be awesome if you're targeting an enemy at very close range, your caster would take the wand/rod and bash the enemy over the head
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KamikazeChicken
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mammoth
Necromancers in Diablo 2 used a dagger as well as a wand
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sinican
@Zinger314.... you never heard of Dungeons and Dragons??? that a big one for ya D&D Mages can use without prof penalty Daggers, Darts, Blow Guns, Slings, and Bo... Ultima Online now going on 8 years has "Mage Weapons"... Diablo 2, Druids use Clubs/maces/hammers, clerics use Maces/hammers/Flails/etc, mater of fact players could use any weapon just with speed penalty
@The Shadow... The Purpose is for casters to have a melee weapon not just an elemental dmg ranged weapon(this could be why casters feel more nerf because their attacks suck against healy elemental armor characters... in fact it is possible to have a higher elemental dmg reduction than melee dmg and the only type of dmg caster caster chars can do is elemental)... and that there are a whole arsenal of skills across casters attribute that would be more used and effective in a melee caster environment... Ultimately Diversity...
plus not all experienced players play the profesions to threir cooky cutter typical role.... hence the 55 the 600 and the Vrit as well as Touch Rangers and such...there are also some very versatile Weapon Rit Builds that would be more viable if such weapons did exist
And don't forget the godly drab skins that wands and staves and offhand have they arent as brilliant as some of the other melee skins let alone bow skins... where are the glowy caster staves and wands??? or some cool looking offhands... all boring blah
Hope that gives you more of an idea of the purpose
@ everyone else so far...
jsut becaus tradition use for certain classes deams them doomed to fall into the typical role doesnt mean that there arent some awsomely potential off the wall builds... again such as a weapon rit are messies or necros...
and again also for looks... :P
this wasn't a rant thread and common lets get outa the NO because traditional box. im talking about why not or wouldnt it be cool to...
we know this will probably never ever happen...
@The Shadow... The Purpose is for casters to have a melee weapon not just an elemental dmg ranged weapon(this could be why casters feel more nerf because their attacks suck against healy elemental armor characters... in fact it is possible to have a higher elemental dmg reduction than melee dmg and the only type of dmg caster caster chars can do is elemental)... and that there are a whole arsenal of skills across casters attribute that would be more used and effective in a melee caster environment... Ultimately Diversity...
plus not all experienced players play the profesions to threir cooky cutter typical role.... hence the 55 the 600 and the Vrit as well as Touch Rangers and such...there are also some very versatile Weapon Rit Builds that would be more viable if such weapons did exist
And don't forget the godly drab skins that wands and staves and offhand have they arent as brilliant as some of the other melee skins let alone bow skins... where are the glowy caster staves and wands??? or some cool looking offhands... all boring blah
Hope that gives you more of an idea of the purpose
@ everyone else so far...
jsut becaus tradition use for certain classes deams them doomed to fall into the typical role doesnt mean that there arent some awsomely potential off the wall builds... again such as a weapon rit are messies or necros...
and again also for looks... :P
this wasn't a rant thread and common lets get outa the NO because traditional box. im talking about why not or wouldnt it be cool to...
we know this will probably never ever happen...
Malice Black
in the films many necro's/vampires carried swords...
sinican
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Admins Bane
in the films many necro's/vampires carried swords...
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although i think the rest of us chose not to choose films as an example do to the level of imaturity of posters and their and total disregard to a Major Motion Pictures portrayal of likenesses to our character profesions...
as if there is really a CORRECT role a Fictional Profession or its loosely basis on real life happenings in hystorical and mythological references... aka "GOD" and the Bible... did he have lightning bolts coming out of his walking stick or did he hit people with it??? did he even have a walking stick.... oh no....
kinda hard to compare magic to melee when everyone deams magic to be fiction in the first place therefore what really do we have to follow as a guide??? and there was and sill is swordfighters archers and martial arts that really do exist physically!
i say we can do whatever the hell we want with the magic role because really there isnt a real role to follow
Malice Black
i love my films and own thousands of Dvds 
ever noticed that none of the caster have the "classic" magicians wand? the little stick..
ever noticed that none of the caster have the "classic" magicians wand? the little stick..
Zinger314
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Originally Posted by sinican
i say we can do whatever the hell we want with the magic role because really there isnt a real role to follow
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Adding additional weapon types to primary caster classes would over-complicate and likely unbalance the game.
Therefore, if it ain't broken, why fix it?
Kelson
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sinican
Necro - Sacrifical Daggers, Blood Knives, Claws
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cut, cut
Ron vo
Necros,besides ahving the most awesome armor*ahem*should be using like a balde or something right?It would make sense...and monk in reality do martial arts and should use Fightings staffs? WHOS WITH ME?
Zinger314
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ron vo
Necros,besides ahving the most awesome armor*ahem*should be using like a balde or something right?It would make sense...and monk in reality do martial arts and should use Fightings staffs? WHOS WITH ME?
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Vahn Roi
Maybe the lack of caster melee weapons is to due to the fact that a lot of casters get eaten alive in the front lines.
I don't care for this idea, in fact I think it would only lead to more morons trying to tank when they have no business doing so.
I don't care for this idea, in fact I think it would only lead to more morons trying to tank when they have no business doing so.
Trvth Jvstice
In most films that have casters aka Wizards or Sorcerers,they use either staffs or wands(or scepters or a magic ring etc.). In Guild Wars, necros are considered casters,but in the movies, the closest equivalent would be vampires, which are primarily a mele character.
I think the OP couldn't care less about traditional movie or book magic users, he apparently wants his casters to be able to attack his opponents with spells and hack away with a sword or axe. Yes that would be sweet, but as others have pointed out, that would definitely be unbalancing.
I think the OP couldn't care less about traditional movie or book magic users, he apparently wants his casters to be able to attack his opponents with spells and hack away with a sword or axe. Yes that would be sweet, but as others have pointed out, that would definitely be unbalancing.
Deviant Angel
Haven't we already seen what happens when you give a squishy daggers. :P
Malice Black
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vahn Roi
Maybe the lack of caster melee weapons is to due to the fact that a lot of casters get eaten alive in the front lines.
I don't care for this idea, in fact I think it would only lead to more morons trying to tank when they have no business doing so. |
draxynnic
You know, this does have potential. For balancing purposes, the caster melee weapons should be doing less damage than warrior weapons, if a little more than regular wands - maybe something around 13-22. However, I do think it could be a useful option, if only for niche builds - after all, there are some casters with effects that work best at point blank range.
As for the people saying casters don't use melee weapons... didn't Gandalf wield Glamdring?
As for the people saying casters don't use melee weapons... didn't Gandalf wield Glamdring?
Sli Ander
I read lots of fantasy novels. 'Casters' use swords and other weapons just as often, if not more often, than traditional casting tools. Famous examples:Gandalf uses a sword(Glamdring) as well as a staff, Rand al'thor from 'The Wheel of Time' series uses a sword more often than his 'magical' abilities. Richard Rahl(Sword of Truth series) uses his sword most often, and the list goes on and on(though I'm too tired to think of more).
I understand why Anet set up casters in a tightly guidelined box, but in the end its just a skin.Be it from a distance or up close, we'll do most of our damage from spells.
The people that would use close quarter weapons will do it for the looks, because they've created a devastating new build, or because they are trying to tank but don't have the skill. Most people will stay with traditional weapons until new uses could be found.
But thats just my humble 2 cents
/edited for spelling and to insert Gandalf's swords name. Took too long typing, and others made my point lol. I think thats the right sword name, been awhile since I read it.
I understand why Anet set up casters in a tightly guidelined box, but in the end its just a skin.Be it from a distance or up close, we'll do most of our damage from spells.
The people that would use close quarter weapons will do it for the looks, because they've created a devastating new build, or because they are trying to tank but don't have the skill. Most people will stay with traditional weapons until new uses could be found.
But thats just my humble 2 cents
/edited for spelling and to insert Gandalf's swords name. Took too long typing, and others made my point lol. I think thats the right sword name, been awhile since I read it.
Solar Light
i recall the LotR rpg on the consoles, gandalf could shoot lightning out of his blade....
Ninna
Dungeons and Dragons is old as the hills (1976?)
Magic Users could use daggers,staves,wands,scrolls
Clerics (healers) could use maces,any blunt weapon + Shield
GW has its own flavor tho (for balance)
- warriors are not using 2handed axes or 2handed swords (unlike other rpgs)
regardless,
I'm happy with the GW gear
Magic Users could use daggers,staves,wands,scrolls
Clerics (healers) could use maces,any blunt weapon + Shield
GW has its own flavor tho (for balance)
- warriors are not using 2handed axes or 2handed swords (unlike other rpgs)
regardless,
I'm happy with the GW gear
nirhan shadowmauler
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
When, in any RPG, have casters use anything other than wands and staves? (Don't be a smart-alec and say +5 Energy swords, those are different.)
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Gun Pierson
May sound funny but I sometimes use a req7 -2 stance -2 ench tactics shield on my monk for running purposes when I use warrior as second class instead of ranger. Together with +10 armor (when enchanted) amor parts and a +5 energy sword (armor +5) you get a pretty tough monk that can still cast. Don't forget the +16 armor of the shield itself, if I put 7 points in tactics that is. in Total +61 extra armor and -4 dmg reduction. He still hits like a fag though.
Siren
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deviant Angel
Haven't we already seen what happens when you give a squishy daggers. :P
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Advantage: Deviant Angel
/unsigned
Mouse at Large
In my limited PvP exp (mostly RA), my ele with geomancer setup runs around with a modified flamespitter, not for the damage, but simply to get into melee range to be able to use shockwave/aftershock.
cataphract
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
When, in any RPG, have casters use anything other than wands and staves? (Don't be a smart-alec and say +5 Energy swords, those are different.)
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/signed
cataphract
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ninna
GW has its own flavor tho (for balance)
- warriors are not using 2handed axes or 2handed swords (unlike other rpgs) |
Sli Ander
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
May sound funny but I sometimes use a req7 -2 stance -2 ench tactics shield on my monk for running purposes when I use warrior as second class instead of ranger. Together with +10 armor (when enchanted) amor parts and a +5 energy sword (armor +5) you get a pretty tough monk that can still cast. Don't forget the +16 armor of the shield itself, if I put 7 points in tactics that is. in Total +61 extra armor and -4 dmg reduction. He still hits like a fag though.
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Redwinter
I like the idea, if only to give Mesmers their fencing sword.
Mezmo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sli Ander
Famous examples:Gandalf uses a sword(Glamdring) as well as a staff, Rand al'thor from 'The Wheel of Time' series uses a sword more often than his 'magical' abilities. Richard Rahl(Sword of Truth series) uses his sword most often
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I'm not trying to say these series are bad(on the contrary I LOVE these series), I'm just giving people more info on the characters so they can perhaps understand why they use swords.
Now on teh issue at hand....
I'm kind of torn, I can see situations where having caster melle weapons would be good, but i also like how only certain classes can use melle weapons while others can't. Honeslty i don't think i'd care one way or another
Ian Savage
The deal here is that casters shouldn't need weapons. If you play a caster to its complete and utter fullest, you will most likely not be tanking. if you are tanking, then you arent playing a true caster. want ele's to have more armor so you can work on your conjure flame melee ele? bite me. there's no need for it. minion master just not doing the job with staff/wand? pull out that hammer and give those enemies hell. Smite monk lacking that little.....twist? throw in backbreaker!
no, I'm sorry. the reason they are CASTERS is because they dont fight in melee. maybe A-net will release a caster/melee prof, (look to the Dervish, it MAY turn out this way) but for the time being, stick to IW if you want to caster tank.
on the other hand, if you want some true originality in caster weaps, then we need to find new ideas. somones gotta have em, throw them out in your own thread. Caster love is there, dont you ever say that it isnt. please.
/notsigned for pointlessness and short-sightedness
P.S.-- Rand/Richard really were more melee type people anyways. I mean come on, if all rand did was use The Power, then it'd make for a slightly boring situation, what with every shadowspawn within 5 miles instantly exploding. thats why they had to add the whole nausea thing. meh, he's perfectly awesome as it is.
no, I'm sorry. the reason they are CASTERS is because they dont fight in melee. maybe A-net will release a caster/melee prof, (look to the Dervish, it MAY turn out this way) but for the time being, stick to IW if you want to caster tank.
on the other hand, if you want some true originality in caster weaps, then we need to find new ideas. somones gotta have em, throw them out in your own thread. Caster love is there, dont you ever say that it isnt. please.
/notsigned for pointlessness and short-sightedness
P.S.-- Rand/Richard really were more melee type people anyways. I mean come on, if all rand did was use The Power, then it'd make for a slightly boring situation, what with every shadowspawn within 5 miles instantly exploding. thats why they had to add the whole nausea thing. meh, he's perfectly awesome as it is.
BahamutKaiser
Simple advantage really, it allows players to close in on targets without switching to a melee weapon that doesn't have useful stats.
There are alot of touch and adjacent spells in the game, it would be very helpful if we had melee caster weapons which either had a small boost for melee effectiveness, or at least had all the same stats as a wand.
There are plenty of usefull skills for Casters to survive on the front line, and deal massive damage, having a convinient weapon for it would be appreciated.
And it doesn't matter if you need it or not, I don't see anyone asking for ranged Wands and Staves to be replaced, they can provide us with useful weapon options for people who do want melee caster weapons.
I however don't agree that caster attributes should increase weapon damage, the attribute doesn't increase the power of associated weapons no matter what they are (No Passive Effects), and the skills are balanced appropriately for a class that does less damage with their weapon and more with thier skills. They could give them lower attack speed and higher damage, or higher attack speed and lower damage, but they should not get higher overall output.
The only exception I would consider is Hybrid weapons. Perhaps a Mesmer Rapier requiring Inspiration magic. Although Inspiration is its requirement it would only allow the weapon to be wielded properly, but since it is a sword, points in sword mastery would increase it's damage output and allow you to use Sword skills with an Inspiration Req sword. Basicly, this allows casters to use melee weapons which require their own attributes and grant mods for their spells, but have the option to invest in Melee Attributes and skills to use with those weapons. I would have to ponder it a wile, I'm not sure if that is balanced.
There are alot of touch and adjacent spells in the game, it would be very helpful if we had melee caster weapons which either had a small boost for melee effectiveness, or at least had all the same stats as a wand.
There are plenty of usefull skills for Casters to survive on the front line, and deal massive damage, having a convinient weapon for it would be appreciated.
And it doesn't matter if you need it or not, I don't see anyone asking for ranged Wands and Staves to be replaced, they can provide us with useful weapon options for people who do want melee caster weapons.
I however don't agree that caster attributes should increase weapon damage, the attribute doesn't increase the power of associated weapons no matter what they are (No Passive Effects), and the skills are balanced appropriately for a class that does less damage with their weapon and more with thier skills. They could give them lower attack speed and higher damage, or higher attack speed and lower damage, but they should not get higher overall output.
The only exception I would consider is Hybrid weapons. Perhaps a Mesmer Rapier requiring Inspiration magic. Although Inspiration is its requirement it would only allow the weapon to be wielded properly, but since it is a sword, points in sword mastery would increase it's damage output and allow you to use Sword skills with an Inspiration Req sword. Basicly, this allows casters to use melee weapons which require their own attributes and grant mods for their spells, but have the option to invest in Melee Attributes and skills to use with those weapons. I would have to ponder it a wile, I'm not sure if that is balanced.
draxynnic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ian Savage
P.S.-- Rand/Richard really were more melee type people anyways. I mean come on, if all rand did was use The Power, then it'd make for a slightly boring situation, what with every shadowspawn within 5 miles instantly exploding. thats why they had to add the whole nausea thing. meh, he's perfectly awesome as it is.
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That still leaves Gandalf, who's a little more difficult to pin down...
The Hand Of Death
Casters in a way should have more diversity of weapons, even if it isn't melee. Wands and staves for 5 proffesions. I mean the warrior has 3 weapons on one proffesion. Now I can see why he wants melee weapons, and not just for damage.
A dark aura necro: could use a dagger because dark aura necros need to be close to the enemy to do their damage, and the weapon attacks keep them close.
Fire Elementalist: the aura of displacement builds with the AoE fire that is in the area directly around the Ele. It would be nice to use a melee weapon to keep up with the enemy while using the skills such as bed of coals and flame burst.
Illusionary Weapon mesmer: Why does the illusionary weapon mesmer always have to be warrior second, I mean why can't they use necro second and benefit from healing from blood, they may need a weapon that can do sufficient damage in the off time of IW.
Ritulaist: used for the close damage spells, and as a way to get to the enemy easier to spawn and drop ashes.
Monk: Smite monk that needs to get close.
The proffesions can really benefit from this and I feel that he is right in the way that casters need a high diversity of weapons.
A dark aura necro: could use a dagger because dark aura necros need to be close to the enemy to do their damage, and the weapon attacks keep them close.
Fire Elementalist: the aura of displacement builds with the AoE fire that is in the area directly around the Ele. It would be nice to use a melee weapon to keep up with the enemy while using the skills such as bed of coals and flame burst.
Illusionary Weapon mesmer: Why does the illusionary weapon mesmer always have to be warrior second, I mean why can't they use necro second and benefit from healing from blood, they may need a weapon that can do sufficient damage in the off time of IW.
Ritulaist: used for the close damage spells, and as a way to get to the enemy easier to spawn and drop ashes.
Monk: Smite monk that needs to get close.
The proffesions can really benefit from this and I feel that he is right in the way that casters need a high diversity of weapons.
Sli Ander
Yeah I know they learned their primaries first, and frankly I could have picked better examples. But I was tired so please forgive me that. What people seem to forget, however, is that there are two views of 'wizards'(I'll say that rather than caster). Wizards are either seen as frail old men, or buff, physically imposing magic users. The second type usually accompany the belief that magic is dependent on ones body: the weaker the body, the less energy for the magic to use.
I realize that Anet put a box around magic users by calling them 'casters', implying that they were meant for long ranger casting.But this only holds mostly true. Elementalists and monks would benefit greatly from caster friendly weapons due to touch skills. Necros would also benefit in the touch abilities, though I have less experience with them, and therefore won't attempt to go into detail.
If I have a warrior secondary, I want to use my shield and sword to benefit my primary class, using warrior stances and whatever energy management they might have. Any conditions I inflict might affect the effectiveness of my skills, and melee weapons can help inflict those necessary conditions.
I hope I'm not repeating myself, I'm merely attempting to clarify my point that 'casters' can benefit from close quarters as much as anyone else. And some of our spells are designed to be used that way. It would be nice if we could get a few more melee weapons to support our primary in the roles we choose to play them, not the confined roles which were originally designed.
/edit for spelling
I realize that Anet put a box around magic users by calling them 'casters', implying that they were meant for long ranger casting.But this only holds mostly true. Elementalists and monks would benefit greatly from caster friendly weapons due to touch skills. Necros would also benefit in the touch abilities, though I have less experience with them, and therefore won't attempt to go into detail.
If I have a warrior secondary, I want to use my shield and sword to benefit my primary class, using warrior stances and whatever energy management they might have. Any conditions I inflict might affect the effectiveness of my skills, and melee weapons can help inflict those necessary conditions.
I hope I'm not repeating myself, I'm merely attempting to clarify my point that 'casters' can benefit from close quarters as much as anyone else. And some of our spells are designed to be used that way. It would be nice if we could get a few more melee weapons to support our primary in the roles we choose to play them, not the confined roles which were originally designed.
/edit for spelling
bigwig
i just want a wand of magic missle
Minus Sign
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
When, in any RPG, have casters use anything other than wands and staves? (Don't be a smart-alec and say +5 Energy swords, those are different.)
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@OP: but not for a game like this. trust me; your castor is much safer at ranged distance to target. If something breaks formt he tank and comes for you, don't wish you had a mellee knife to swap and pwn, run like you hair was on fire. Its not the lack of mellee weapons that kill non-kiting castors. Its the lack of armor.