A system to deal with AFKers in cooperative missions (not kick-related)

Hibou

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Montreal, Québec, Canada

13 Sep 2006 at 19:17 - 1
For cooperative missions, each player get an hidden stat called "Teamwork points". Teamwork points start at 0 when the mission begins. Each 5 seconds, every player get 1 teamwork point for each other team player within range. (i.e. name not grayed out in team window).

When the mission ends, the system computes the maximal possible teamwork points (according to the time taken to do mission) and compare this value to each player's teamwork points. Any player who has less than 50% of the maximal teamwork points value doesn't pass the mission and get warped back to mission outpost. All other players move on as usual. Simple isn't ?

Note : After testing, the values might be adjusted for best possible results. i.e. the 5 seconds and the 50%.

Funny side-effect : players running missions for lazy teams would not pass the mission and get rewards

Now, what is the thing I didn't see that make this suggestion totally worthless ? You tell me !

So... /signed or /notsigned ?

Undivine

Undivine

of Brackenwood

Join Date: Oct 2005

Ontario, Canada

13 Sep 2006 at 19:27 - 2
Well, if we're only talking cooperative missions, then this kinda makes sense. However, it wouldn't work in places like Thunderhead Keep where the cutscene brings you to the king and then everyone has to guard that king.

It also doesn't work if there is more than one leecher. So now you may end up with a worse problem - the leechers are always coming in pairs!

Addone_Abaddon

Addone_Abaddon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Jersey, Channel Islands

Perfection Is Everything [PiE]

W/

13 Sep 2006 at 19:32 - 3
I like this, I remember when doing the mission to become closer to the stars, a monk said "brb" and never came back, in the end, everyone except that one monk was dead, even the other monk.

Hibou

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Montreal, Québec, Canada

13 Sep 2006 at 19:48 - 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undivine
Well, if we're only talking cooperative missions, then this kinda makes sense. However, it wouldn't work in places like Thunderhead Keep where the cutscene brings you to the king and then everyone has to guard that king.
Yeah, there are always exceptions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undivine
It also doesn't work if there is more than one leecher. So now you may end up with a worse problem - the leechers are always coming in pairs!
Let's do the maths... Let's say, worst case, that the two leechers are within radar range of each other, they would both get 2 points every 5 secs. Meanwhile, each player on the rest of the team would get 6 points every 5 seconds. Having 6 points every 5 secs out of a possibility of 8 is 75% of possible points. Having 2 points out of 8 is only 25%. Thus if the floor value is 50%, the leechers fail and the rest of the team succeed. Isn't it ?

So as long as the active team as 50% of its players in it, you can pass the mission.

On the other hand, if you have 4 permanent afkers on your team of 8, you might just consider aborting the mission...

DeanBB

DeanBB

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Arizona

Wizardry Players Guild, http://4guildwars.7.forumer.com

13 Sep 2006 at 20:04 - 5
I like an idea that doesn't involve people voting others off the team, good job. Anet may need to tweak it as far as conditions or whatever, perhaps movement or skill use can be factored in? Otherwise something like this would be good.

Painbringer

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

13 Sep 2006 at 20:11 - 6
/ signed

Since your caluculating points add a title track for this as well. (Team Player / Helper of the Group / Master of the Team) Boy would this be nice for pick up groups. Minus points for rage quiters. And inactive characters are booted off after 7 minutes of no movement/action.

The truth itself

The truth itself

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark

First Degree

Mo/

13 Sep 2006 at 20:27 - 7
A fine idea.

/signed

But might need some tweaking, but hey, every idea needs tweaking.

Rera

Rera

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

13 Sep 2006 at 21:02 - 8
This system should work in most missions, but it also limits the acceptable ways to complete a mission. The party basically has to stay together for most of the mission. Anyone who moves away from the party will be penalized, even if it is a legitimate part of the mission.

Also, ragequitting is the only reasonable response to stubborn idiocy, so I disagree that it should be penalized.

xiao1985

xiao1985

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

14 Sep 2006 at 01:53 - 9
/signed 2000 million times if i can

but then you can have leechers who comes with the group and does nothing... (i had a leecher like that once in naipui)

mega_jamie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

UK

Warlords of Ruin

A/Mo

14 Sep 2006 at 12:14 - 10
what happens with runners, or people who know what they are doing and cant be bothered for the slower players to pick up the pace.

People "runing off" to finish a bonus or just plain explore will get punished.

Azure

Azure

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Honestly? No idea anymore..

Hellreapers [HR]

A/W

14 Sep 2006 at 12:20 - 11
/Signet

But I see a problem if someone dies at the very start'n all rez's have been used up (just a worstcase scenario d.

And even tho they dont assist on the game, but if they've done the mission before they can still guide the rest thru, and not being totally useless.

rezabm

rezabm

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Nightshift Resurrection

R/

14 Sep 2006 at 16:04 - 12
I like that. But I'd like to see it implemented more like a "coolness indicating system", where players themselves vote and assign cool-points to their team-mates after finishing the coop.

I Mean I

I Mean I

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

in my guild hall afk

Ar Vin Pvp[AMp]

R/

14 Sep 2006 at 16:26 - 13
Simplier:
To encounter 1 afk leecher in team leader /votekick{add here name __} and then everyone else exept from the person that is afk /votekick and game throw him out of mission and replece him with a same proffesion henche or a random one.

To enounter 2 and mroe afk leechers:Team leader /vote{add how many votes here___}kick{add name here__} and then if 2 leechers in team of 8 you do somethin like /6votekicks{name here} everyone that is not afk votes game throw them in the nearest outpost and repleace them with random henche

Hibou

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Montreal, Québec, Canada

14 Sep 2006 at 17:41 - 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Mean I
Simplier:
To encounter 1 afk leecher in team leader /votekick{add here name __} and then everyone else exept from the person that is afk /votekick and game throw him out of mission and replece him with a same proffesion henche or a random one.

To enounter 2 and mroe afk leechers:Team leader /vote{add how many votes here___}kick{add name here__} and then if 2 leechers in team of 8 you do somethin like /6votekicks{name here} everyone that is not afk votes game throw them in the nearest outpost and repleace them with random henche
Kicking has been discussed in various other threads. It opens the door to abuse. Like allowing to kicking people who aren't afk, etc. It also means that players need to participate in the vote. If you have ever tried to get a whole PUG to /resign, you should know how hard it is to make everyone do it; same would apply to trying to make everyone do a /kick.

What I want to develop in this thread is an alternate way that does not require player input. A transparent system if you will.

Hibou

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Montreal, Québec, Canada

14 Sep 2006 at 17:44 - 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiao1985
/signed 2000 million times if i can

but then you can have leechers who comes with the group and does nothing... (i had a leecher like that once in naipui)
If they come in and do nothing, they neither get XP, items nor pass the mission, so what exactly could they be leeching ?

Hibou

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Montreal, Québec, Canada

14 Sep 2006 at 17:48 - 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rera
This system should work in most missions, but it also limits the acceptable ways to complete a mission. The party basically has to stay together for most of the mission. Anyone who moves away from the party will be penalized, even if it is a legitimate part of the mission.

Also, ragequitting is the only reasonable response to stubborn idiocy, so I disagree that it should be penalized.
If we ever get missions that require splitting the party, the system can be adjusted to match. Anyway, such mission would be really difficult with a AFKers in the team.

I agree that Rage quitting shoud not be penalized, if it was, people would simply log off instead or provoke a disconnection.

Kai Nui

Kai Nui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Behind you with a knife

Celebrity Gangsters [FamE]

Me/

14 Sep 2006 at 17:54 - 17
Just leave and start over without the individual causing the problem. Whee problem solved.

Hibou

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Montreal, Québec, Canada

14 Sep 2006 at 18:00 - 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by mega_jamie
what happens with runners, or people who know what they are doing and cant be bothered for the slower players to pick up the pace.
The slower players will need to keep up with the team, if they don't they will be penalized. Or if you are a runner that don't need the team to be successfull, why not just take henchies instead ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mega_jamie
People "runing off" to finish a bonus or just plain explore will get punished.
Explorer is a delicate issue, if the explorer is doing exploration alone, away from the group, then he is as useful to the group as an AFKer. The max distance allowable between the explorer and the group is long enough to allows exploring as long as the explorer don't go too far off. If the explorer spend at least half the mission time in range of the group, he would still pass the mission.

For the bonus, this should not be an issue as running to finish a bonus should not take you away from the party for more than a few minutes. If you spent more time with the team than alone, you pass the mission, it's that simple.

The system would do nothing to prevent someone from going afk 5 minutes before the mission's end, but it will eliminate those who goes afk 5-15 minutes into the mission.

Hibou

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Montreal, Québec, Canada

14 Sep 2006 at 18:05 - 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Nui
Just leave and start over without the individual causing the problem. Whee problem solved.
Yeah, that would work with the dumb AFKers who goes afk a the start of the mission. But most AFKers will follow group about 10-15 minutes into the mission then go afk. At this point, most players on the team don't want to restart the mission and redo those last 15 minutes so they just go on, helping the AFKer reaching his evil goal.