At the rate their going, what isit gonna be like in say.. chapter 10... 20 new skills per class for 22 classes and 300 new skills for the 2 new classes thats like 12412489 new skills?
not that i'm complaining but it looks as thou it might get to a stage of it being very difficult to balance.
Will the exponential rate of adding new skills with new chapters ever stop?
aaronsgh
EternalTempest
It won't be as difficult. Core skills new will still fall in to the same attribute lines and with similiar / copies of older skills it won't be insane.
Think about magic the gathering and the sheer number of cards they come out with.
Also since the campaign classes are more unique to the campaign, I don't suspect many new skills latter on compared to the 5 core classes that will always be getting lots of new stuff constantly.
Think about magic the gathering and the sheer number of cards they come out with.
Also since the campaign classes are more unique to the campaign, I don't suspect many new skills latter on compared to the 5 core classes that will always be getting lots of new stuff constantly.
aaronsgh
point to note: mtg's balancing comes with the rarity of the cards whereas in gw everyone will eventually get their hands on all the skills, thats when balancing will be a problem...
and if they just keep having similar copies of the same skill popping up in new chapters.. why not just make them core..
imagine if everyone could easily get a copy of black lotus and all mox cards for 50 cents each + other uber leet cards for a godly deck.. aka more skills released make it harder to balance..
my 2c.
and if they just keep having similar copies of the same skill popping up in new chapters.. why not just make them core..
imagine if everyone could easily get a copy of black lotus and all mox cards for 50 cents each + other uber leet cards for a godly deck.. aka more skills released make it harder to balance..
my 2c.
Zexion
My 2 c. If they are gonna keep adding more and more skill, or at least 300 per chapter, they better make skills easier to come by!
_Zexion
_Zexion
My Sweet Revenga
My concern is more for how many times they can duplicate a skill. I can only groan in dismay at the thought of future wammos running around with a skillbar of 5 power attacks, 2 mendings, and frenzy... 
LifeInfusion
Maybe the core 6 will be core for only first 3 chapters, they said it is the end of a trilogy for nightfall.
Anyhow, if MtG can make 1000s of cards GW can make 1000s of skills.
Anyhow, if MtG can make 1000s of cards GW can make 1000s of skills.
J3mo
I love skillcapping I wont mind hehe
majoho
I doubt this game will live to see more than max 6 chapters - it would odd if it did
(yeah I know Everlast ehh.. Everquest lasted forever but that was then...)
(yeah I know Everlast ehh.. Everquest lasted forever but that was then...)
Trvth Jvstice
Shame on you. Guild Wars will be here for our grandchildren to play. They might be playing it using a probe stuck into the back of their heads feeding the virtual battles and dancing eles straight into their brains, but it'll still be Guild Wars.
Cherno
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Originally Posted by Zexion
My 2 c. If they are gonna keep adding more and more skill, or at least 300 per chapter, they better make skills easier to come by!
_Zexion |
Remember that not all new chapters will have more characters so there won't be quite so many skills.
New skills are a very important and high profile part of getting existing players to buy new chapters. They will continue to offer new skills, even if they are renames of existing skills.
achilles ankle
I do agree if they do have more skills per chapter(which they will) change the 1k per skill thing plz. At this rate you gotta have a substantial amount of money...just to buy skills that you want to play with. But also i dont think theres gonna be a chapt 10 lol.....prob only 1 or 2 more for gw, the amount of updates they do will probably eventually surpass their profits they make in sales to keep up the updates..and when that happens the game will prob start to get old. HOPE ITS NOT FOR A WHILE CUZ I LOVE THIS GAME
Zexion
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Originally Posted by Cherno
I'm sorry, I don't get this. Hard are they hard to come by? In tyria you did some quests and visited skill trainers. In Cantha they are almost all available from the very beginning of the game, or at least in kaineng. Elites aren't hard to come by.
Remember that not all new chapters will have more characters so there won't be quite so many skills. New skills are a very important and high profile part of getting existing players to buy new chapters. They will continue to offer new skills, even if they are renames of existing skills. |
They have lowered it from 20k to 15k before (and at that time, it was retroactive), but if they continue the 300+ skills per chapter trend, and a chapter every 6 months, I say they make it easier to get skills.
_Zexion
Spike
Sorry but if you WANT every skill in EVERY profession then it should take you as long as it does. Its not like you NEED them all now is it.
I know several people who love to hunt down all the skills espicaly the elites. I just get what I need for the build I'm playing at the time. Plus I cap any elites that come my way dureing playing the missions/quests.
I know several people who love to hunt down all the skills espicaly the elites. I just get what I need for the build I'm playing at the time. Plus I cap any elites that come my way dureing playing the missions/quests.
Shadowspawn X
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Originally Posted by aaronsgh
At the rate their going, what isit gonna be like in say.. chapter 10... 20 new skills per class for 22 classes and 300 new skills for the 2 new classes thats like 12412489 new skills?
not that i'm complaining but it looks as thou it might get to a stage of it being very difficult to balance. |
lennymon
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Originally Posted by My Sweet Revenga
My concern is more for how many times they can duplicate a skill. I can only groan in dismay at the thought of future wammos running around with a skillbar of 5 power attacks, 2 mendings, and frenzy...
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Zexion
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Originally Posted by Spike
Sorry but if you WANT every skill in EVERY profession then it should take you as long as it does. Its not like you NEED them all now is it.
I know several people who love to hunt down all the skills espicaly the elites. I just get what I need for the build I'm playing at the time. Plus I cap any elites that come my way dureing playing the missions/quests. |
_Zexion
ValaOfTheFens
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Originally Posted by EternalTempest
Think about magic the gathering and the sheer number of cards they come out with.
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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Anyhow, if MtG can make 1000s of cards GW can make 1000s of skills.
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Anyways...my only concern about skills is the growing expense of them. I'm up to 900 gold for my next skill! Since Ectos aren't falling out of the sky to finance my education I'm a bit worried.
Ninna
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Originally Posted by majoho
I doubt this game will live to see more than max 6 chapters - it would odd if it did
(yeah I know Everlast ehh.. Everquest lasted forever but that was then...) |
-Loki-
Quote:
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Originally Posted by majoho
I doubt this game will live to see more than max 6 chapters - it would odd if it did
(yeah I know Everlast ehh.. Everquest lasted forever but that was then...) |
Avarre
Its not exponential if its 300 per chapter. That's linear.
The cost of skills was already reduced significantly, sure reduce it more, but retroactive refunds is nice in that case.. They used to have NO cap, and all of you complaining about 1k would be complaining about 3-4k.
The cost of skills was already reduced significantly, sure reduce it more, but retroactive refunds is nice in that case.. They used to have NO cap, and all of you complaining about 1k would be complaining about 3-4k.
heist23
While the rate of new skills being added isn't exponential, eventually there'll be a ridiculous amount of skills to choose from if GW lives long enough.
My best guess is that because new skills that are introduced are "regional" (i.e. Factions skills are Canthan techniques or something like that), they might release chapters that return to the older continents, like Tyria and such, and just release new content, not skills and new professions.
My best guess is that because new skills that are introduced are "regional" (i.e. Factions skills are Canthan techniques or something like that), they might release chapters that return to the older continents, like Tyria and such, and just release new content, not skills and new professions.
VanDamselx
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Originally Posted by My Sweet Revenga
My concern is more for how many times they can duplicate a skill. I can only groan in dismay at the thought of future wammos running around with a skillbar of 5 power attacks, 2 mendings, and frenzy...
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Phaern Majes
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Originally Posted by Zexion
Then there are those who PvP, and want to use Balth Faction for emergency unlocks (a new build in HA), and PvE to unlock skills, and want to have many skills to be able to experiement.
_Zexion |
Cherno
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Originally Posted by Zexion
1k+15k xp per skill, I call hard enough to come buy. In order to manage 300 skills per chapter, you gotta get 2 skills every day between two chapters. I say that is hard enough to come by. I say it would be thoughtful of Anet perhaps lowers xp per level to 12k, and the skill cost to 500-750g max.
They have lowered it from 20k to 15k before (and at that time, it was retroactive), but if they continue the 300+ skills per chapter trend, and a chapter every 6 months, I say they make it easier to get skills. _Zexion |
In tyria you recived skills from quests as well as skill points from the missions. That's 25 skill points. Maybe if you are trying to get every skill for every profession on each character I can see your point. But getting all skills for your primary then select skills for secondary hasn't been a problem at all for me.
I also have one of each profession so all my pvp unlocks are done. I guess that's where your biggest problem is? You don't have each character?
Each new chapter would add up to what 35 skills or so per primary and has its own way to get skill points and money to make it affordable. Seems like a well balanced way to do it to me.
shadowmist
Eh, I'm not too worried. At any one time, a player can still only have 8 skills and around 200 attribute points depending on whether they've done the attribute quests yet. A skill bar full of one skill doesn't really make it a good build, unless it's like invincibility for 10 seconds, recharge 70 seconds. >_<
At its core, Guild Wars remains a skill based game. Just because you'll have access to all the skill, doesn't mean you'll be able to make good use of all of them.
I'm hoping that you'll be able to quest for skills in Nightfalls like in Prophecies. Having to buy skills for my Faction characters and Faction skills put a serious dent in my money. Even had trouble keeping above 200k at one point when I restarted a few characters in Factions. Having to farm xp for skill points is probably the only reason I was able to do so.
At its core, Guild Wars remains a skill based game. Just because you'll have access to all the skill, doesn't mean you'll be able to make good use of all of them.
I'm hoping that you'll be able to quest for skills in Nightfalls like in Prophecies. Having to buy skills for my Faction characters and Faction skills put a serious dent in my money. Even had trouble keeping above 200k at one point when I restarted a few characters in Factions. Having to farm xp for skill points is probably the only reason I was able to do so.
Gigashadow
No, the exponential rate will never stop. After another 10,000 years, the number of skills in Guild Wars will be so large that the design document containing them will be heavy enough to suck in the rest of the universe, which will collapse to a singularity.
Anduin
I just wonder when the Elite Skill Hunter title will finally max out, or if I am destined to keep throwing money at it forever.
Paperfly
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| mtg's balancing comes with the rarity of the cards |
Sakura-Tribe Elder, a common, is one of the three most powerful cards in the current Standard format. On the other end of the spectrum you have rares like Phytohydra, which is splashier and more complex but is also absolute garbage.
OK, the third consideration is balancing Limited (formats where you open a certain number of packs and can only build decks from the cards you just opened), which is why big splashy monsters are rarely available as commons; but that's not relevant to the balancing of constructed formats, where people playing the top decks are assumed to have access to every card (in the same way that tournament GvG guilds are assumed to be UAX when it comes to the builds they can run).
To put it another way, M:tG rarity is not comparable to Guild Wars' system of Elite skills. The latter is a "drawback", added to the skill so it can be given a boost in power. The former is more about selling more cards by making specialist effects harder to obtain.
aaronsgh
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Its not exponential if its 300 per chapter. That's linear.
The cost of skills was already reduced significantly, sure reduce it more, but retroactive refunds is nice in that case.. They used to have NO cap, and all of you complaining about 1k would be complaining about 3-4k. |
Sha Noran
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Originally Posted by aaronsgh
sorry it is exponential.. think about it.
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Exponential: 2^2=4 4^2=16
Linear: 300+300=600 600+300=900
EDIT: To be basic about it, its not Exponential because... there is no exponent. >.>
Age
I would say fewer skills in future chapters how many skills can someone use unless there is lots of rebalancing.I don't use most of my stances from prophecies because of the recharge times.
shardfenix
In MtG, the cards overall are balanced. in GW, some skills are blatantly more broken than others, and other skills are so useless nobody even knows what they do. Granted, MtG has some unplayable cards, but none of their cards are so good that EVERY deck uses them. In the past 5 years of MtG, only 1 card has been banned because of its power level (skullclamp). Out of around 2000 cards, one is too good.
Guild wars, IMO, needs to work out the problems it has with its current skills, namely nerfing the broken skills, and buffing the unusable ones. More expansions without skill balances will only make the metagame suck more and more as time goes on. That's why I have pretty much stopped playing.
BTW, you can tell that nightfall is a pve based expansion because all the skills are completely broken in pvp. Not to mention that someone in RnD wanted to make a one handed bow with faster attack speed, and the highest damaging weapon has to do aoe damage to be cool. Assassins with scythes are like hammer warriors with infinite energy...you know, bunnythumpers.
Back to the original question. They only add new skills for the new professions and core classes only. Assassins and ritualists will never change because of expansions. After nightfall, paragons and dervishes will also be locked. Every expansion will have nearly the same number of new skills as the last, so after 10 more expansions, there will be roughly 3700 skills, not a million like you stated.
By the way, the way they add skills is linear. 300+300+300+300+300 = linear...it goes up in a line when put on a graph. That's where the word LINEar comes from.
Guild wars, IMO, needs to work out the problems it has with its current skills, namely nerfing the broken skills, and buffing the unusable ones. More expansions without skill balances will only make the metagame suck more and more as time goes on. That's why I have pretty much stopped playing.
BTW, you can tell that nightfall is a pve based expansion because all the skills are completely broken in pvp. Not to mention that someone in RnD wanted to make a one handed bow with faster attack speed, and the highest damaging weapon has to do aoe damage to be cool. Assassins with scythes are like hammer warriors with infinite energy...you know, bunnythumpers.
Back to the original question. They only add new skills for the new professions and core classes only. Assassins and ritualists will never change because of expansions. After nightfall, paragons and dervishes will also be locked. Every expansion will have nearly the same number of new skills as the last, so after 10 more expansions, there will be roughly 3700 skills, not a million like you stated.
By the way, the way they add skills is linear. 300+300+300+300+300 = linear...it goes up in a line when put on a graph. That's where the word LINEar comes from.
Paperfly
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| In the past 5 years of MtG, only 1 card has been banned because of its power level (skullclamp). |
...OK, enough M:tG. One point I'd like to address is the dupe skills: Does anyone really expect a third copy of anything? I would also assume that future duplicates will be pulled as much from Factions as from Prophecies, since they're used to (a) fill tactical holes in skill trees (to be honest, I think they should've made a couple more skills Core) and (b) create an interesting design decision where you can have two copies of the skill on your bar to cheat the recharge time.
Three copies would be pointless in light of the latter, though I could conceive of someone wanting three Meteor Showers.
Another point is that Core skills are almost certainly ineligible for duplication - because they already appear in every expansion! They can't make a Mending clone (let's call it "Repairing"
) because they'd end up with two identical skills with different names working side-by-side, which would be pretty confusing to new players.
aaronsgh
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Sorry, it's not.
Exponential: 2^2=4 4^2=16 Linear: 300+300=600 600+300=900 EDIT: To be basic about it, its not Exponential because... there is no exponent. >.> |
eg. in nightfall skills added = 200 for the new classes + 20 x 8 for the old classes = 360
in chapter 4 = 200 for the new classes + 20 x 10 for the old classes = 400
5 = 200 + 20 x 12 = 440
6 = 200 + 20 x 14 = 480
so 300 + 300 + 300 + 300 is pretty wrong as u can see.. it goes 360+400+440+480+520
not so linear imo.
maybe the word 'compound' is the word to use but definitely not linear..(i'm no maths major lol)
i end my argument. scrutinize all u want.. i'm just interested in the discussion of ways they will curb an ever-incease of skills for previous classses.
aaronsgh
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Originally Posted by shardfenix
Assassins and ritualists will never change because of expansions. After nightfall, paragons and dervishes will also be locked. Every expansion will have nearly the same number of new skills as the last, so after 10 more expansions, there will be roughly 3700 skills, not a million like you stated.
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