Bypassing the AL + Level Barrier

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

18 Sep 2006 at 19:14 - 1

I've mentioned it in my 'final sin' build thread and I was wondering what you other PvE Assassins do.

When me, a lvl 20 assassin swings at a lvl 24+ PvE monster, I end up doing, jack$#!+ damage. [in relation to their hp bar]. Sometimes, vs. squishies, they do die relatively fast but if I'm fighting high armor casters [think Dwarves or what not], I can't seem to slam them past 20% hp bar...

I want to see how badly Glint will eat me, that'd be an interesting sight to see...

What my question is, since Crits are affected by character level, and to a lesser extent AL, how do you sins get any 'worthwhile' spikes on high level foes? [worthwhile being 50%+ total hp bar damage]

My experience with it has me wishing to go back to my W/N, but I believe I've found a fun, though slower, way for my sin to slam a foe into the dirt via Deadly Arts...

So, what tips you got on using a high level sin to do high level worthy damage? [using Dagger Mastery + Critical Strikes]

Katari

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Upstate

Me/

18 Sep 2006 at 19:52 - 2

I didn't think AL had anything to do with crit rate at all.

ubermancer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]

18 Sep 2006 at 19:58 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

I didn't think AL had anything to do with crit rate at all. It doesnt. Level does.

And just use fast firing skills that you can spam. Repeating Strike is a good example, especially on a R/A if you can afford its draw backs.

Chain repeating, then when you are ready for the kill, Twisting.

Also try, I unno, Barbs, Vampiric weapons, running with an order Necro, etc.

narud

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

19 Sep 2006 at 03:43 - 4

youre gonna have problems getting a spiking combo against high lvl foes, so use a repeatable one and use atk skills all the time. Or you could go flourishing blades, its very good in pve to my expeirience.

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

19 Sep 2006 at 04:24 - 5

I'll go run a wild blow test in Isle of the Nameless with the sin...

vs. all the ALs, I could have sworn a very high AL can reduce crit dmg by some amount...

But I know for sure [and others have noted] that enemies past lvl 20 will easily resist your critical rate...

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

19 Sep 2006 at 08:04 - 6

Normal 'auto' attacks from an assassin do no or little damage to mobs with high AL (and player warriors) only the special attacks do damage.

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

20 Sep 2006 at 15:35 - 7

Well, AL doesn't affect crit rate, but it does affect critical damage.

At least that was what my 50 wild blow swings at a 100AL and 60AL target proved to me.

If critical hits actually IGNORE AL when factoring damage, someone show me where and how it does so...

Right now, at least through my limited testing, extremely high AL and level enemies will take a sin's direct knife attacks and shrug them off easily...

which sucks at high level areas...

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

20 Sep 2006 at 15:45 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

It doesnt. Level does.

And just use fast firing skills that you can spam. Repeating Strike is a good example, especially on a R/A if you can afford its draw backs.

Chain repeating, then when you are ready for the kill, Twisting.

Also try, I unno, Barbs, Vampiric weapons, running with an order Necro, etc. There are 3 issues I have with what you just said.

fast firing skills usually means you're standing next to your foe for more than 3 seconds... In a place where enemies target low AL players, you're dead, and can't afford to machinegun attacks

I'm talking assassin primary due to runes upping the dmg and other skills of the assassin, I know a ranger's expertise can help with costs but please leave the ranger primary ideas at the door?

I'm not going to take credit for it cause I don't have time to prove it, but it's been stated that Repeating Strike is a really crappy skill for +xx damage despite it's rapid fire nature...

Thus far, majoho proved my point and everyone else's posts don't seem to answer the question/thread title.

Ok, AL doesn't affect critical rate, but it does affect critical damage with my limited testing...

So high AL will pretty much turn your auto crit attacks to shat... Level means 16 weapon mastery and 13 critical strikes still go down the toilet in terms of damage so high AL / Level enemies are nigh impossible for an assassin to well, assassinate. [casters take more damage but not enough to be noteworthy when compared to say, a warrior's damage, though they can afford to stand there and keep swinging]

Has anyone found a way [secondary skills can help, but don't talk about assassin secondaries as that's self-defeating] to break through an enemy's high AL / crit resistance as a sin to deal significant damage using Dagger Mastery and Critical Strikes?

Thus far, my deadliest assassin build stems off of Deadly Arts which is not only a surprise but for me a refreshing change of pace. Earlier in game, Assassins can kill quite ruthlessly but if you take an assassin to fight Glint, [I still have yet to try it ^_^], well, I'd write off the sin as dead weight...

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

20 Sep 2006 at 16:36 - 9

You can't take an enemy past 20%? Would that be doing 20% damage or doing 80% damage?

If its the first... your combo sucks or you forgot to put attributes onto Dagger Mastery. If its the latter... whats your point?

I've been doing fine with GPS--->TF (teh combo), especially in Tyria. High AL Dwarven Casters? Where? High AL Mursaat Casters? Where? We're not talking about bosses here... the bosses which seem to have an effective 180AL. Practically nothing can heal effectively in late game Tyria (don't even mention White Mantle). Deep Summit Priests and Dolyak Masters are only decent because of MoP, generally your entire team targets them first anyway so spike damage barely matters.

I've been soloing plenty of Mursaat/Dwarven attackers. I can kill a Mursaat Ele alone before the other 7 can kill the Jade Armour/Bow. Plenty of high + damage skills is good too. Hell, just Unsuspecting Strike alone can drop targets below 80% health since it gives 96 AL ignoring damage at lvl13.

You'd write off an assassin as a dead weight vs Glint? I'd write off a warrior as a dead weight, never mind a bloody assassin.

Glasswalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Northwest Ascalon

Freedom

N/R

20 Sep 2006 at 17:11 - 10

Sure! As far as secondaries go, you've got the right one. Weaken Armor in the curses line will bring their armor down by 20 pts. Barbs doesn't hurt either.

I too favor the Deadly Arts, and that's where you will find the Sin's armor-ignoring damage. I don't run them exclusively though, so let me take a shot at this.

At the risk of having rotten food thrown at me, I'm going to say, try Locust's Fury. If each individual attack does little damage, hit them more often.

Repeating Strike has recently gotten a damage upgrade, and I think it was underrated to begin with. One could certainly argue that it isn't energy efficient, but use it with Way of the Empty Palm so they cost you nothing and (back in necro territory) Rigor Mortis so they all hit.

Here are a couple builds to play with:
CS 16 DM 11 Curses 8

Weaken Armor
Rigor Mortis
Critical Eye
Locust's Fury {E}
Unsuspecting Strike
Black Lotus Strike
Repeating Strike
Critical Strike / Twisting Fangs

With Critical Eye on and your atts where they are, you should have a roughly 40% chance to crit, which will gain you 4E. You won't quite be earning more than you are spending, but with BLS in there, you shouldn't have to worry about Energy much. Locust's Fury and DM 11 should give you 55% chance of double striking too -- Do the math there.

I couldn't fit Barbs in there, and there's no self-heal or res, but you should be doing some damage now. If you need the res sig, pull out RS, it isn't vital to this build, just nice to have.

Barbs
Weaken Armor
Rigor Mortis
Way of the Empty Palm {E}
Unsuspecting Strike
Wild Strike
Repeating Strike
Twisting Fangs

More of the same really, but different energy management, and stance removal thrown in. The Curses will cost you both in time and Energy, but by the end of your run, you will likely have made it all back. Oh, and the target should be dead or mostly dead. No self-heal again, but you have a good monk on your team, right?

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

20 Sep 2006 at 17:47 - 11

Assassin should never rely on their auto-attack.

When an assassin get into high level area, it is best that you choose all the skills that have either deep wound or high +dmg. This generally applies to warriors too.

Strength of honor is another good option if you must you auto-attack.

If you really can't hit pass 20% of their HP (anything aside boss) while using combo skills, there are something wrong. It is either some kind of enchant, or your attribute problem, and perhaps some hex.

joncoish

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

20 Sep 2006 at 18:38 - 12

Well the way I see assassin really is that their main job is to go after the casters. Of course you can't always do this, like if you're against an all hitter groups of baddies, but whenever I'm playing my assassin and I see a healer, or ritualist or something, I'm there. I can take those guys down pretty fast, and then if it's just a hitter or two left over, well it won't matter so much if I can't kill him fast on my own.

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

21 Sep 2006 at 07:11 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Wait? Critical hits DO NOT ignore armour of any kind? They just always take the max dmg of a weapon, and the following rules apply: Whenever a critical hit occurs, the damage done is equal to the maximum damage of the weapon multiplied by approximately √2, the equivalent of striking for maximum damage with a weapon attribute 4 higher than actually possessed. Non-critical hits are a random value chosen between the minimum and maximum damage values of the weapon.

AL doesn't matter. It will reduce the damage yes, but that's logic. They won't reduce it because it's a critical hit.

Hyunsai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

A/Me

21 Sep 2006 at 10:03 - 14

Euh, excuse me, but...

What is "AL" ???

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

21 Sep 2006 at 10:19 - 15

Armour Level

Caster standard max AL would be 60, and warriors usually have 80+20vsphys or something like that. Rangers have 70+30 vs ele or something like that.

Monsters can get huge AL's.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

21 Sep 2006 at 10:36 - 16

Caster standard AL is 60 + bonuses.
Rangers have 70 +30 Elemental +15 specific element if applicable.
Assassins have 70 base
Warriors have 80 +20 physical base.

At least that's what I remember. :P

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

21 Sep 2006 at 14:49 - 17

Sadly this REALLY doesn't include Mursaat Bosses who have utterly ridiculous AL. Meteor Shower... 120 damage to 60AL, 21 damage to Willia The Unpleasant. That is major damage reducation, 100AL is 60, 140AL is 30. You get the idea. Obviously its not taking into account level differences but its 'effective' AL is that high.

The more +damage skills you have, the better. degen isnt even worth the effort with half duration, nor hexes.

Dr. Fire

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Ohio, U.S.A.

Bane of Darkness [BoD]

Me/

21 Sep 2006 at 16:08 - 18

For PvP to counter weak armor of the Assassin I generally go with a KD build. Knocked down foes can't hurt you. Horns of the Ox and falling spider make a nice combo, with Shock thrown in somewhere for a second KD. Or I go with Deadly Arts and use Impale, followed by Iron Palm, Falling Spider, Horns of the Ox, Mobeus Strrike or Palm Strike, Twisting Fangs, then 2 of your choice. Generally a standard damage build in PvE does me just fine when with a competent group.

Xasew

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Storm Bearers[SB]

21 Sep 2006 at 16:56 - 19

Critical Eye-Unsuspecting Strike-Fox Fangs-Critical Strike. Can be repeated every 8 seconds, so spamming that should get pretty high DPS(which is all that matters in PvE, right?). Only uses 4 skills and no elite, which means that can be modified quite alot(Moebius? Sharpen Daggers? Flashing Blades?).

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

21 Sep 2006 at 17:07 - 20

^^^^^^Sharpen Daggers is not elite.