i was gone for 2 weeks from the game, come back, and behold; my fave class in the game has been nerfed to hell! To think, i was going to delete all my chars and just play my rit all through the GW campaigns... no... not anymore...
now what the heck do we do? they almos tripled the cost of shelter, and made it take 3 times more damage to boot!! i mean jesus... its bad enough we wont be getting any new skills, so ''adapting'' will be a pain and a half... and why play restore? is that not what monks are for? im gonna hang around for a bit, maybe anet will see they took this nerf too far and find a middle ground before how the rit lord used to be and how it is now...
there have been many nerfs in this game, but those classes were able to recover... as ritualists, we now will need to maybe even change are attributes all together just to play competetively... like go from spawn/communing to all out restore... were not even utilizing the same atts!!
GARBAGE! im waiting for the next skill balance update to occur before i decide to retire... that next update will likely occur after nightfall's realse... i wont be buying nightfall of course till the next skill update... but when it comes a long and the update does nothing to ammend the situation, ill be giving away all my inventory and deleting my chars
... heres hoping
so what the heck do i do now ARENANET!!???
Bellucci
Former Ruling
1) You WILL be getting new skills in Nightfall: CONFIRMED by Anet...Stop Moaning.
2) They BUFFED THE HECK OUTTA RITS in the last update...Are you blind...
BTW, Rit Lord isnt dead, They are just adapting to the changes (Shelter being the only spirit in common Spammer use that was hit very hard). Shelter got hit harder IMO because of its uses on certain maps in GvG. Namely the Catapult-having ones.
2) They BUFFED THE HECK OUTTA RITS in the last update...Are you blind...
BTW, Rit Lord isnt dead, They are just adapting to the changes (Shelter being the only spirit in common Spammer use that was hit very hard). Shelter got hit harder IMO because of its uses on certain maps in GvG. Namely the Catapult-having ones.
Bellucci
who cares about spamming? it now dies 3 times as fast!!! they almost trippled its cost and they trippled the damage it takes, and thats assuming you have 16 spawn.... otherwise its more than trippled 
Ecksor
dude stfu not all Rt's are communing or resto. channeling got buffed like crazy, so please, just quit complainin
Former Ruling
Spammers never cared in the first place how fast something dies...Displacement is on every spammers bar and it has ALWAYS died almost as fast as you cast it.
Shelter really is the one and only spirit that dmgs itself that consistently survived its recharge in a spammer build. Union, though the dmg is small, activates alot thus falls pretty fast. Displacement like I said drops as soon as it is cast vs most builds. Shelter had alot of survivability and often times survived its recharge in these builds unless alot of big spikes happened.
And again...Shelter probably has hit so hard because it circumvented a few of the guild hall's features, namely the Catapult ones. Shelter survived so well you could sit it up and basically forget about the catapult and run out of your base when the opponent is firing it. This really made catapults no issue for builds with rit lords...
Shelter really is the one and only spirit that dmgs itself that consistently survived its recharge in a spammer build. Union, though the dmg is small, activates alot thus falls pretty fast. Displacement like I said drops as soon as it is cast vs most builds. Shelter had alot of survivability and often times survived its recharge in these builds unless alot of big spikes happened.
And again...Shelter probably has hit so hard because it circumvented a few of the guild hall's features, namely the Catapult ones. Shelter survived so well you could sit it up and basically forget about the catapult and run out of your base when the opponent is firing it. This really made catapults no issue for builds with rit lords...
Bellucci
yea former... you obviously arent getting me... shelter dies in seconds, as a spammer, you could deal with shelter being 25 energy, simply because chances are it never died in the first place.... it took very little damage, even in the ring of fire missions.... now its bar drops faster than unions... what im saying is that if it was 25 energy, you atleast didnt have to worry about spamming shelter... because it would still take only 15 damage... the fact that it takes tripple damage, or more, means that now you DO have to spam it... but now that you HAVE TO, its 25 energy... meh
unmatchedfury
i feal your pain mate. I no longer use shelter in PvE too much trobule to cast for 8 procs in a 8 person party.. one proc per person WHEeeeeee....
anyways im experimenting with offesive spirits they work well. BUt as for restoration its like a monk without any enchants.. more reflex based and alot harder. oh well..
anyways im experimenting with offesive spirits they work well. BUt as for restoration its like a monk without any enchants.. more reflex based and alot harder. oh well..
Bellucci
yea the restore rit just isnt as effective... a +3 reccup works well while spamming on spot heals, which is what any monk should do.... a good monk doesnt use enchant heals... but there is an enormous drawback... the rit doesnt have a HEAL PARTY... and even if you use one as a restore rit, there is no divine favor boost... but its not just that.... even being an exception healer will never compare to rit lord, that for some reason was just too fun to play.... especially in FoW and UW.....
Morayna
Bellucci, I couldn't agree more with you on this. I love my rit, and it is my favorite character. 98% of the time it's the char I choose to play. Rit Lord build of course. And I'm sorry to say that, now, I can't play that. Why? Not only is shelter a 25 pt cost skill now (which, if that being the only "change", it's adaptable, plus the lowering of the recharge time, etc) but almost every skill that is the backbone of the defensive build was shot to pieces. It's not the individual skills of the different attributes that should be debated, but the builds used by rits. Mainly the highly favored defensive (aka protective) rit lord build.
The problem rests mostly in Boon of Creation (and Ritual Lord to a certain extent). How can anet expect us to use high cost skills (recupe is now 25 also) without sufficient energy backup OR good recharge times, since they had to bump the rit lord skill down too? Seriously... Rits are designed specifically with spirits in mind (being the only class that can utilize the spawning attribute), and I think it's a load of crap that the spirits and skills related to such were so badly altered that it looks like the only efficient build for rits is to play back up healers or channelers. I can't even get accepted into a group for higher level missions now if I'm not set as a healer. I mean, was Anet even thinking when they made this change or so called "balance"?
I'm assuming the change was made not from a pve standpoint but pvp (this being ab, gvg, etc). Rit lords in pvp can be Very good, and I had to listen to more than one person on the other side complain about it. Don't freaking complain. Kill the rit lord, don't whine about their skills so anet starts considering the idea that "there is a problem". It's not that hard. Rits aren't tanks and can take damage. And if you're a rit lord, the skill bar allows for Maybe 1 self heal If that. Either kill them, nuke their spirits, or energy denial/interrupts... And think- This being directed specifically at Anet (since it said on their contact page to "comment and post suggestions on such forums since they are read daily"): Don't freaking nerf the hell out of something without considering how it will effect everything else (such as the number of people wanting to play a specific build, or that pvp and pve are not the same things so what works for one won't for the other, vice-versa). You've killed a good build. Way to go. You should all be very proud of yourselves. Now you have a lot of really ticked off/upset rit users on your hands.
I think if you take the overall nerf into consideration, it really was nothing but a knockdown of the defensive Rit Lord build because of it's "overpowering" effects. Seeing as how the restoration skills were bumped up, I get the impression they want us to lean more towards healing?
And so what if they buffed it last time? It was still very playable. Now it's barely manageable. I'll give anything a shot. I tried this, even tried tweaking the build to compensate. No good.
Anyone have any useful suggestions on what I'm supposed to do with my rit now?
The problem rests mostly in Boon of Creation (and Ritual Lord to a certain extent). How can anet expect us to use high cost skills (recupe is now 25 also) without sufficient energy backup OR good recharge times, since they had to bump the rit lord skill down too? Seriously... Rits are designed specifically with spirits in mind (being the only class that can utilize the spawning attribute), and I think it's a load of crap that the spirits and skills related to such were so badly altered that it looks like the only efficient build for rits is to play back up healers or channelers. I can't even get accepted into a group for higher level missions now if I'm not set as a healer. I mean, was Anet even thinking when they made this change or so called "balance"?
I'm assuming the change was made not from a pve standpoint but pvp (this being ab, gvg, etc). Rit lords in pvp can be Very good, and I had to listen to more than one person on the other side complain about it. Don't freaking complain. Kill the rit lord, don't whine about their skills so anet starts considering the idea that "there is a problem". It's not that hard. Rits aren't tanks and can take damage. And if you're a rit lord, the skill bar allows for Maybe 1 self heal If that. Either kill them, nuke their spirits, or energy denial/interrupts... And think- This being directed specifically at Anet (since it said on their contact page to "comment and post suggestions on such forums since they are read daily"): Don't freaking nerf the hell out of something without considering how it will effect everything else (such as the number of people wanting to play a specific build, or that pvp and pve are not the same things so what works for one won't for the other, vice-versa). You've killed a good build. Way to go. You should all be very proud of yourselves. Now you have a lot of really ticked off/upset rit users on your hands.
I think if you take the overall nerf into consideration, it really was nothing but a knockdown of the defensive Rit Lord build because of it's "overpowering" effects. Seeing as how the restoration skills were bumped up, I get the impression they want us to lean more towards healing?
And so what if they buffed it last time? It was still very playable. Now it's barely manageable. I'll give anything a shot. I tried this, even tried tweaking the build to compensate. No good.Anyone have any useful suggestions on what I'm supposed to do with my rit now?
dgb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morayna
I'm assuming the change was made not from a pve standpoint but pvp (this being ab, gvg, etc). Rit lords in pvp can be Very good, and I had to listen to more than one person on the other side complain about it. Don't freaking complain. Kill the rit lord, don't whine about their skills so anet starts considering the idea that "there is a problem". It's not that hard. Rits aren't tanks and can take damage. And if you're a rit lord, the skill bar allows for Maybe 1 self heal If that. Either kill them, nuke their spirits, or energy denial/interrupts... And think- This being directed specifically at Anet (since it said on their contact page to "comment and post suggestions on such forums since they are read daily"): Don't freaking nerf the hell out of something without considering how it will effect everything else (such as the number of people wanting to play a specific build, or that pvp and pve are not the same things so what works for one won't for the other, vice-versa). You've killed a good build. Way to go. You should all be very proud of yourselves. Now you have a lot of really ticked off/upset rit users on your hands.
Have you ever actually played a GVG at any level where the teams are organised? Kill the rit lord? It's hard enough to get kills as it is against a good team, let alone on a character that is four agro bubbles behind the flagstand. Interupt it? Right, let's send a character through their frontline, midline and backline and they still aren't at the rit. Any character extending that far in is spike bait. The ritualist could spam their spirits from a position of near invulnerability simply because the range of the spirits meant that you had to overextend by a rediculous ammount in order to kill it or them.
Abyss1
Ok well I personally don't see the problem....
I haven't changed my bar pre-update <-> post-update and yes shelter takes more to cast and yes it dies faster but in PvE it is still as effective and well I do have to cast in a different order now but I still get just as many off in just about the same amount of time. the thing is now yes you rely on you spirits taking the damage longer so now I actually have to wait a sec or two longer for energy to come available.
A good solution I found that works for me is taking 1 or 2 spirits that give me more energy back through boon then the actual cats costs.
I still can prevent my team from dying throughout the crystal desert and beyond so I guess no harm is done.
ok well now a rit lord actually has to use his brain to get it all working right where before it was pretty much a brainless build, spam and spam often.
In short addapt , nothing is going to really change to it was so we have to adapt.
I haven't changed my bar pre-update <-> post-update and yes shelter takes more to cast and yes it dies faster but in PvE it is still as effective and well I do have to cast in a different order now but I still get just as many off in just about the same amount of time. the thing is now yes you rely on you spirits taking the damage longer so now I actually have to wait a sec or two longer for energy to come available.
A good solution I found that works for me is taking 1 or 2 spirits that give me more energy back through boon then the actual cats costs.
I still can prevent my team from dying throughout the crystal desert and beyond so I guess no harm is done.
ok well now a rit lord actually has to use his brain to get it all working right where before it was pretty much a brainless build, spam and spam often.
In short addapt , nothing is going to really change to it was so we have to adapt.
Amok Affinity
[PVE] a resto. rit can be used very very effectively in conjunction with some other type of [pseudo] healer, be it a monk or rit. the point being, no its not a monk, big sh**, but it can complement a monk just as well as another [/PVE]
its not all spiritspam and VwK farming but [un]fortunately ANet cant make you see that, you have to take a look for yourself instead of copying generic builds from wikis etc. -_-
its not all spiritspam and VwK farming but [un]fortunately ANet cant make you see that, you have to take a look for yourself instead of copying generic builds from wikis etc. -_-
memnock deathwalker
The main reason I see for the nerf in any build is due to the PVP folks whining when they get handed a plate full of their butts . Minion master came back from it's hard hitting nerf and so will ritualist.
Think outside the box . See what from the old build you use to run is still good and change the things that are not. simple!
I have yet to see ANET change something back once it has been nerfed and I doubt they ever will. ( I may be wrong but I do not think so)
And for the record I can still run my spirit spammer build with out energy issues. But I never take Shelter or Union.
Think outside the box . See what from the old build you use to run is still good and change the things that are not. simple!
I have yet to see ANET change something back once it has been nerfed and I doubt they ever will. ( I may be wrong but I do not think so)
And for the record I can still run my spirit spammer build with out energy issues. But I never take Shelter or Union.
unmatchedfury
well prot spirit really is useless in PvE now. It works okay, its not totally useless but its not as effective as a monk at proting now. So really we're just what you get if there isn't a monk available for your throw togeher PUG.
nerfing rit lord took away their use in PvP, now they're just sub par at everthing. I'm not saying they can't heal, or that they can't dmg . ITs jsut taht now they're the worst at dmg,a sub par monk, and a 50% of the time protection.
When the paragon hits the PvP meta game there will be no use whatsoever for rits. the paragon can do the party buff thing just as well as the rit can now. Or so i hear i guess that might be getting ahead of myself. We don't know for sure. All i know is that shelter took a HUGE nerf. The problem half the time is the lack of use for the rits main attribute.
but as far as the 1337 PvP communty is concerned there is no use for rits, and you won't see them used, and don't see them used i might add, in any high level GvG.
One good thing about this nerf is the buff to offensive spirits. I think an offensive spirit spammer could really help a team control a particular area in GvG. unfortuanlty as in any competitive game Cookie cutting is the maxium and inovation is discouraged.
nerfing rit lord took away their use in PvP, now they're just sub par at everthing. I'm not saying they can't heal, or that they can't dmg . ITs jsut taht now they're the worst at dmg,a sub par monk, and a 50% of the time protection.
When the paragon hits the PvP meta game there will be no use whatsoever for rits. the paragon can do the party buff thing just as well as the rit can now. Or so i hear i guess that might be getting ahead of myself. We don't know for sure. All i know is that shelter took a HUGE nerf. The problem half the time is the lack of use for the rits main attribute.
but as far as the 1337 PvP communty is concerned there is no use for rits, and you won't see them used, and don't see them used i might add, in any high level GvG.
One good thing about this nerf is the buff to offensive spirits. I think an offensive spirit spammer could really help a team control a particular area in GvG. unfortuanlty as in any competitive game Cookie cutting is the maxium and inovation is discouraged.
LadyNilene
yeah, i agree with the update being booboo...
i totally had to revamp my ritualist to keep it SOMEWHAT useful to what it use to be. Shelter drops just as fast as Displacement now, and takes so much energy to cast...i had to rework my Rit with some mesmer channeling skills to help relieve some of the burden the energy managment problem was causing...after that, i tried to work in signet of creation to help lengthen the life of the spirits(since displacement and shelter drop like flies, so a 30 second extension isnt that bad, considering the health regain keep them alive that long to begin with), but that killed off minons from mm, which caused problems, so...had to take that out...either way...not happy with the update, ive never done channeling magic, so i really dont care how good it is now or whatever...nobody ever wants a channeling rit anyways, its always rit lord or resto...so bleh.
i totally had to revamp my ritualist to keep it SOMEWHAT useful to what it use to be. Shelter drops just as fast as Displacement now, and takes so much energy to cast...i had to rework my Rit with some mesmer channeling skills to help relieve some of the burden the energy managment problem was causing...after that, i tried to work in signet of creation to help lengthen the life of the spirits(since displacement and shelter drop like flies, so a 30 second extension isnt that bad, considering the health regain keep them alive that long to begin with), but that killed off minons from mm, which caused problems, so...had to take that out...either way...not happy with the update, ive never done channeling magic, so i really dont care how good it is now or whatever...nobody ever wants a channeling rit anyways, its always rit lord or resto...so bleh.
Xeupo
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgb
Have you ever actually played a GVG at any level where the teams are organised? Kill the rit lord? It's hard enough to get kills as it is against a good team, let alone on a character that is four agro bubbles behind the flagstand. Interupt it? Right, let's send a character through their frontline, midline and backline and they still aren't at the rit. Any character extending that far in is spike bait. The ritualist could spam their spirits from a position of near invulnerability simply because the range of the spirits meant that you had to overextend by a rediculous ammount in order to kill it or them.
It sounds to me that the problem is not with the skill set but with the players. Perhaps instead of nerfing the Rit Lord or variations of it (I did not run the cookie cutter except for the core spirits) Anet should have increased the sin's range for their teleport skills. A sin with much longer teleport could rip a ritual lord up.
I am a PvE player primarily. I have long felt that anet should seperate skill effects for pve and pvp environments. Some of the nerfs that are pvp oriented completed messes up pve builds that are balanced. Likewise the other way around.
Overall, I usually look fondly upon nerfs, and I have had many characters be effected by nerfs.Nerfs are good because they require people to rethink their builds; they keep the game fresh. However, I frown upon this ritualist nerf because of it being pvp centric.
A ritual lord of the standard build can have a hard time keeping spirits up in the elite missions and other pve maps because of the large amount of damage involved. Even a small downtime can render most of the party slain.
While a ritual lord in pvp can seem overpowered, it is possible to counter. People need to learn how to play characters better in order to do so instead of whining.
I hope Anet would consider seperating pvp and pve skill effects so these misbalances between pve and pvp will not continue to occur. This would also make the difference between the two more interesting. In my pvp escapades, I find most players to play similar to pve ai.
I am a PvE player primarily. I have long felt that anet should seperate skill effects for pve and pvp environments. Some of the nerfs that are pvp oriented completed messes up pve builds that are balanced. Likewise the other way around.
Overall, I usually look fondly upon nerfs, and I have had many characters be effected by nerfs.Nerfs are good because they require people to rethink their builds; they keep the game fresh. However, I frown upon this ritualist nerf because of it being pvp centric.
A ritual lord of the standard build can have a hard time keeping spirits up in the elite missions and other pve maps because of the large amount of damage involved. Even a small downtime can render most of the party slain.
While a ritual lord in pvp can seem overpowered, it is possible to counter. People need to learn how to play characters better in order to do so instead of whining.
I hope Anet would consider seperating pvp and pve skill effects so these misbalances between pve and pvp will not continue to occur. This would also make the difference between the two more interesting. In my pvp escapades, I find most players to play similar to pve ai.
Glasswalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeupo
I hope Anet would consider seperating pvp and pve skill effects so these misbalances between pve and pvp will not continue to occur. This would also make the difference between the two more interesting. In my pvp escapades, I find most players to play similar to pve ai.
Worst. Idea. Ever. Does that mean that when you get to a competitive mission in Cantha that the effects of your skills ought to change? How about the Alliance battles? I would hate to get used to a set of skills then pop into the Jade Quarry and find that none of them worked right.
Come on guys, it was just one skill. Did you see the list of all the Rit skills that were improved? Holy Moses.
And yes, for you Spirit Spammers out there, fear not! Signet of Creation will drastically extend the life of your beloved Shelter. Regarding Minion Masters, you now have 2 choices: 1) Don't team with them (it can be done), 2) Let them take advantage of this effect. Start spreading the Death Nova and start the suicide rush! Of course, you only use it in times of intense pressure, but that's when the rush will do the most good too.
Come on guys, it was just one skill. Did you see the list of all the Rit skills that were improved? Holy Moses.
And yes, for you Spirit Spammers out there, fear not! Signet of Creation will drastically extend the life of your beloved Shelter. Regarding Minion Masters, you now have 2 choices: 1) Don't team with them (it can be done), 2) Let them take advantage of this effect. Start spreading the Death Nova and start the suicide rush! Of course, you only use it in times of intense pressure, but that's when the rush will do the most good too.
Xeupo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasswalker
Worst. Idea. Ever. Does that mean that when you get to a competitive mission in Cantha that the effects of your skills ought to change? How about the Alliance battles? I would hate to get used to a set of skills then pop into the Jade Quarry and find that none of them worked right.
Come on guys, it was just one skill. Did you see the list of all the Rit skills that were improved? Holy Moses.
And yes, for you Spirit Spammers out there, fear not! Signet of Creation will drastically extend the life of your beloved Shelter. Regarding Minion Masters, you now have 2 choices: 1) Don't team with them (it can be done), 2) Let them take advantage of this effect. Start spreading the Death Nova and start the suicide rush! Of course, you only use it in times of intense pressure, but that's when the rush will do the most good too. I have played a few games where such skills changed. It made the games more interesting in my view because such required me to think about things differently for each area. I tend to change my builds for each area anyway.
I did not play ritual lord but rarely. I do appreciate the increases on the other skills, but I dislike how ritualists are looked down upon in pve. This is especially so since we cannot protect the party much more than a monk can.
We are considered sub par healers and sub par damage dealers. Most pve groups do not allow a ritualist to take advantage of the offensive spirits because of rushing.
I do have to add, however, that a ritualist is much better than a monk when dealing with large party degen in pve areas. For my restoration builds the increase of energy on recuperation is not a problem.
Signet of Creation is not really that much of a help in my experience. I only ritual lord in extremely high damage areas (read Urgoz Warren and other elite areas) where the signet is not as valuable as another spirit or skill. In my tests after the skill change the signet has as much effect on shelter as it does on displacement which is just about 1 or 2 more seconds of life. The mass minion bombing is very effective however.
As a ritualist, I would like to see one change. Draw Spirit changed into Draw Spirits with a greater pull range to help with the rushing mentality of pve.
Come on guys, it was just one skill. Did you see the list of all the Rit skills that were improved? Holy Moses.
And yes, for you Spirit Spammers out there, fear not! Signet of Creation will drastically extend the life of your beloved Shelter. Regarding Minion Masters, you now have 2 choices: 1) Don't team with them (it can be done), 2) Let them take advantage of this effect. Start spreading the Death Nova and start the suicide rush! Of course, you only use it in times of intense pressure, but that's when the rush will do the most good too. I have played a few games where such skills changed. It made the games more interesting in my view because such required me to think about things differently for each area. I tend to change my builds for each area anyway.
I did not play ritual lord but rarely. I do appreciate the increases on the other skills, but I dislike how ritualists are looked down upon in pve. This is especially so since we cannot protect the party much more than a monk can.
We are considered sub par healers and sub par damage dealers. Most pve groups do not allow a ritualist to take advantage of the offensive spirits because of rushing.
I do have to add, however, that a ritualist is much better than a monk when dealing with large party degen in pve areas. For my restoration builds the increase of energy on recuperation is not a problem.
Signet of Creation is not really that much of a help in my experience. I only ritual lord in extremely high damage areas (read Urgoz Warren and other elite areas) where the signet is not as valuable as another spirit or skill. In my tests after the skill change the signet has as much effect on shelter as it does on displacement which is just about 1 or 2 more seconds of life. The mass minion bombing is very effective however.
As a ritualist, I would like to see one change. Draw Spirit changed into Draw Spirits with a greater pull range to help with the rushing mentality of pve.
Jetdoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeupo
It sounds to me that the problem is not with the skill set but with the players. Perhaps instead of nerfing the Rit Lord or variations of it (I did not run the cookie cutter except for the core spirits).
A ritual lord of the standard build can have a hard time keeping spirits up in the elite missions and other pve maps because of the large amount of damage involved. Even a small downtime can render most of the party slain. To the OP and Xeupo above...
I think this is the main problem. People loved the Ritual Lord build because it was simply a cookie-cutter build. Carry six base skills, and have a couple of flex skills you can play with.
A-Net, for the most part, tries to break the mold of cookie cutter builds in order to have players with the 100 other skills that are available. That's why Shelter took a direct hit - it was the keystone to the Ritual Lord cookie cutter build.
Simply put, us ritualists need to diversify and innovate. That is the core concept of the Ritualist class anyways - good at many things, not great at any individual thing. So far, I am loving the changes, and have taken a hard look at skills I never even considered before. I find that if you experiment, you'll actually learn how to use the skills better than simply taking someone else's build and mashing buttons.
A ritual lord of the standard build can have a hard time keeping spirits up in the elite missions and other pve maps because of the large amount of damage involved. Even a small downtime can render most of the party slain. To the OP and Xeupo above...
I think this is the main problem. People loved the Ritual Lord build because it was simply a cookie-cutter build. Carry six base skills, and have a couple of flex skills you can play with.
A-Net, for the most part, tries to break the mold of cookie cutter builds in order to have players with the 100 other skills that are available. That's why Shelter took a direct hit - it was the keystone to the Ritual Lord cookie cutter build.
Simply put, us ritualists need to diversify and innovate. That is the core concept of the Ritualist class anyways - good at many things, not great at any individual thing. So far, I am loving the changes, and have taken a hard look at skills I never even considered before. I find that if you experiment, you'll actually learn how to use the skills better than simply taking someone else's build and mashing buttons.
Formula97
What I don't understand is why they also nerfed Boon of Creation. Yeah, it is used in the Rit Lord builds, but they nerfed Ritual Lord, so what was the point? The only other semi-popular build I know of that uses Boon of Creation is the Rt/N minion bomber, which is never used in PVP because it is just not practical.
In PVE, the Rt/N mm is not overpowered at all. Basically the only advantage it has over a Necro primary mm is Explosive Growth for some AOE damage. Seeing as how Boon was the only real useable energy management skill for a Rit, I have to completely disagree with the nerf. My Rit is now pretty much useless to me, as I found spirits and restoration extremely boring. When you are running a Rt/N with Boon of Creation, energy was still an issue before the nerf if you were putting nova on all of your minions as they were created(hard to do, but with practice it is possible) and keeping Boon of Creation and Explosive Growth up. Since your minions are constantly dieing and you don't get any bonus from soul reaping, the energy gained from making new minions was the only way to keep going during heavy fighting.
They may have buffed a lot of other skills, but if they buff skill lines that no one wants to use anyway, who cares. I personally, along with some other members of my guild, are really getting tired of all the skill nerfs. If people in PVP are too dumb, lazy, or what ever to come up with better builds, don't ruin things for everyone esle. Why should the whiners and complainers always get what they want? I mean really, they might as well just nerf everything, so the people who play crap builds all the time won't have anything to complain about when they get their rear ends handed to them. Yeah, some builds are pretty annoying to go up against and get owned by all the time in PVP, but you go back, look at your skills, and make adjustments for next time, as there is a counter to just about everything in this game.
If I see a bunch of people using the same build and being sucessful, guess what. I'm going to go look to see what I can do to counter it, not go complain to Anet that its too powerfull or can't be beat. With all of the nerfs, people don't have to think about how to counter something, Anet is doing it for them.
In PVE, the Rt/N mm is not overpowered at all. Basically the only advantage it has over a Necro primary mm is Explosive Growth for some AOE damage. Seeing as how Boon was the only real useable energy management skill for a Rit, I have to completely disagree with the nerf. My Rit is now pretty much useless to me, as I found spirits and restoration extremely boring. When you are running a Rt/N with Boon of Creation, energy was still an issue before the nerf if you were putting nova on all of your minions as they were created(hard to do, but with practice it is possible) and keeping Boon of Creation and Explosive Growth up. Since your minions are constantly dieing and you don't get any bonus from soul reaping, the energy gained from making new minions was the only way to keep going during heavy fighting.
They may have buffed a lot of other skills, but if they buff skill lines that no one wants to use anyway, who cares. I personally, along with some other members of my guild, are really getting tired of all the skill nerfs. If people in PVP are too dumb, lazy, or what ever to come up with better builds, don't ruin things for everyone esle. Why should the whiners and complainers always get what they want? I mean really, they might as well just nerf everything, so the people who play crap builds all the time won't have anything to complain about when they get their rear ends handed to them. Yeah, some builds are pretty annoying to go up against and get owned by all the time in PVP, but you go back, look at your skills, and make adjustments for next time, as there is a counter to just about everything in this game.
If I see a bunch of people using the same build and being sucessful, guess what. I'm going to go look to see what I can do to counter it, not go complain to Anet that its too powerfull or can't be beat. With all of the nerfs, people don't have to think about how to counter something, Anet is doing it for them.
Formula97
What I don't understand is why they also nerfed Boon of Creation. Yeah, it is used in the Rit Lord builds, but they nerfed Ritual Lord, so what was the point? The only other semi-popular build I know of that uses Boon of Creation is the Rt/N minion bomber, which is never used in PVP because it is just not practical.
In PVE, the Rt/N mm is not overpowered at all. Basically the only advantage it has over a Necro primary mm is Explosive Growth for some AOE damage. Seeing as how Boon was the only real useable energy management skill for a Rit, I have to completely disagree with the nerf. My Rit is now pretty much useless to me, as I found spirits and restoration extremely boring. When you are running a Rt/N with Boon of Creation, energy was still an issue before the nerf if you were putting nova on all of your minions as they were created(hard to do, but with practice it is possible) and keeping Boon of Creation and Explosive Growth up. Since your minions are constantly dieing and you don't get any bonus from soul reaping, the energy gained from making new minions was the only way to keep going during heavy fighting.
They may have buffed a lot of other skills, but if they buff skill lines that no one wants to use anyway, who cares. I personally, along with some other members of my guild, are really getting tired of all the skill nerfs. If people in PVP are too dumb, lazy, or what ever to come up with better builds, don't ruin things for everyone esle. Why should the whiners and complainers always get what they want? I mean really, they might as well just nerf everything, so the people who play crap builds all the time won't have anything to complain about when they get their rear ends handed to them. Yeah, some builds are pretty annoying to go up against and get owned by all the time in PVP, but you go back, look at your skills, and make adjustments for next time, as there is a counter to just about everything in this game.
If I see a bunch of people using the same build and being sucessful, guess what. I'm going to go look to see what I can do to counter it, not go complain to Anet that its too powerfull or can't be beat. With all of the nerfs, people don't have to think about how to counter something, Anet is doing it for them.
In PVE, the Rt/N mm is not overpowered at all. Basically the only advantage it has over a Necro primary mm is Explosive Growth for some AOE damage. Seeing as how Boon was the only real useable energy management skill for a Rit, I have to completely disagree with the nerf. My Rit is now pretty much useless to me, as I found spirits and restoration extremely boring. When you are running a Rt/N with Boon of Creation, energy was still an issue before the nerf if you were putting nova on all of your minions as they were created(hard to do, but with practice it is possible) and keeping Boon of Creation and Explosive Growth up. Since your minions are constantly dieing and you don't get any bonus from soul reaping, the energy gained from making new minions was the only way to keep going during heavy fighting.
They may have buffed a lot of other skills, but if they buff skill lines that no one wants to use anyway, who cares. I personally, along with some other members of my guild, are really getting tired of all the skill nerfs. If people in PVP are too dumb, lazy, or what ever to come up with better builds, don't ruin things for everyone esle. Why should the whiners and complainers always get what they want? I mean really, they might as well just nerf everything, so the people who play crap builds all the time won't have anything to complain about when they get their rear ends handed to them. Yeah, some builds are pretty annoying to go up against and get owned by all the time in PVP, but you go back, look at your skills, and make adjustments for next time, as there is a counter to just about everything in this game.
If I see a bunch of people using the same build and being sucessful, guess what. I'm going to go look to see what I can do to counter it, not go complain to Anet that its too powerfull or can't be beat. With all of the nerfs, people don't have to think about how to counter something, Anet is doing it for them.
Commander Ryker
Geez, everytime Anet makes any kind of changes, out come the cry babies. Well I say, here's a quarter, go dial 1-800-wahwah
Scourgey
I thought Ritualists got a much needed buff, whoever hasn't tried out a healing rit or channelling ritualist should try them, they got quite a significant boost in areas like weapon spells, direct damage, healing.
Ritualist lord hasn't got a nerf by the way, the recharge for spirits is similar to before now because all the spirits got a 25% decrease in cooldown.
Ritualist lord hasn't got a nerf by the way, the recharge for spirits is similar to before now because all the spirits got a 25% decrease in cooldown.
Jetdoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula97
What I don't understand is why they also nerfed Boon of Creation. Yeah, it is used in the Rit Lord builds, but they nerfed Ritual Lord, so what was the point? The only other semi-popular build I know of that uses Boon of Creation is the Rt/N minion bomber, which is never used in PVP because it is just not practical.
Actually, they didn't nerf Ritual Lord since they decreased the recharge times of almost all the spirits that Ritual Lord uses.
Boon of Creation was their key target (along with Shelter) - it was this skill alone that allowed a ritualist to chain together an almost endless flow of spirits (hench the name spirit spammer).
Almost every class in GW has energy issues, and the Spirit-Spamming Ritualist was almost immune to this. That was corrected.
Boon of Creation was their key target (along with Shelter) - it was this skill alone that allowed a ritualist to chain together an almost endless flow of spirits (hench the name spirit spammer).
Almost every class in GW has energy issues, and the Spirit-Spamming Ritualist was almost immune to this. That was corrected.
dgb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula97
If people in PVP are too dumb, lazy, or what ever to come up with better builds, don't ruin things for everyone esle.
They did come up with a counter, it was hit heavy builds (see thumpers). This didn't change the fact that ritualists played an overy large impact for a single character slot, with very few counters that could be just added to a build. I'd argue a lot more thought and creativity goes into high end PVP than goes into any PVE, it's not the we are dumb or lazy, it's that we recognise a character for being overpowered when it is.
Xenrath
Quote:
Back on topic, seems pretty obvious this is just another nerf which has resulted because of PvP. It's been suggested to me that the majority of skill changes are because of some PvP issue, and I can see how that is true.
unmatchedfury
Well the main problem is the fact that this shuts down devensive rits for PvE MUCH more than it does for PvP. In PvE shelter isn't even useable (even though you do get it early on) till you get rit lord.
they need to be a little less heavy handed than this with their nerfs. THey don't have to kill a skill to make it balenced. Either Energy increase or duration decrease would have sufficed. HOwver they hads to nerf the e manaegment skill, duration, energy, and cooldown. Deas that dound like a bit much? to me it does...
they need to be a little less heavy handed than this with their nerfs. THey don't have to kill a skill to make it balenced. Either Energy increase or duration decrease would have sufficed. HOwver they hads to nerf the e manaegment skill, duration, energy, and cooldown. Deas that dound like a bit much? to me it does...
trankle
Shelter was hit pretty hard, but....
Does anyone really believe that the RL build was balanced in PvE? I played it quite a bit in higher level missions (both campaigns), not because it was fun (though it did have a zen quality, after a hard day of work), but because it was so powerful. It was hard to justify not playing it to a party.
RL could stand far enough back that he never aggroed a single mob, and be at full effectiveness. This allowed him to wear multiple superior runes, which almost nobody does. On top of that, at least two spirits (shelter and union, possibly recuperation) could be kept up most of the time, offering blanket damage reduction with no knowledge of what challenges the party was facing. And if things got hairy, one button could heal the enitre party for over 400hp. In my opinion, a build which offers this kind of power with very little threat of danger, and with very little knowledge of the enemy, was not balanced.
So, is it now? Shelter costs 25e, and dies faster. You now have to know when to place it. This means you actually have to know what threats the party will be facing, and plan for them. I don't think that's too much to ask. Monks have to do the same thing.
By the way, spirit spammig rits don't have to use Rit Lord. Certain players are using combinations of Energizing Wind, Attuned was Songkai, and Serpent's Quickness to aid with recharge time and energy. It just takes more skill than before, as timing and spirit placement are less forgiving. I personally have been using Assassin's Promise for recharge and energy management. It's alot trickier, but much more fun and challenging at the same time. And still effective.
Speaking of, does nobody play offensive spirits in PvE? The power offered by offensive spirits and Painful Bond is pretty amazing, and using Assassin's Promise almost guarantees that mobility and energy aren't an issue in PvE. I suggest that those who can't find a role in the Rit class give this (or the other Rit lines) a try before writing off the class.
Does anyone really believe that the RL build was balanced in PvE? I played it quite a bit in higher level missions (both campaigns), not because it was fun (though it did have a zen quality, after a hard day of work), but because it was so powerful. It was hard to justify not playing it to a party.
RL could stand far enough back that he never aggroed a single mob, and be at full effectiveness. This allowed him to wear multiple superior runes, which almost nobody does. On top of that, at least two spirits (shelter and union, possibly recuperation) could be kept up most of the time, offering blanket damage reduction with no knowledge of what challenges the party was facing. And if things got hairy, one button could heal the enitre party for over 400hp. In my opinion, a build which offers this kind of power with very little threat of danger, and with very little knowledge of the enemy, was not balanced.
So, is it now? Shelter costs 25e, and dies faster. You now have to know when to place it. This means you actually have to know what threats the party will be facing, and plan for them. I don't think that's too much to ask. Monks have to do the same thing.
By the way, spirit spammig rits don't have to use Rit Lord. Certain players are using combinations of Energizing Wind, Attuned was Songkai, and Serpent's Quickness to aid with recharge time and energy. It just takes more skill than before, as timing and spirit placement are less forgiving. I personally have been using Assassin's Promise for recharge and energy management. It's alot trickier, but much more fun and challenging at the same time. And still effective.
Speaking of, does nobody play offensive spirits in PvE? The power offered by offensive spirits and Painful Bond is pretty amazing, and using Assassin's Promise almost guarantees that mobility and energy aren't an issue in PvE. I suggest that those who can't find a role in the Rit class give this (or the other Rit lines) a try before writing off the class.
memnock deathwalker
Well with the upcoming release of NightFall I for one will be waiting until the skill Nerf for the new characters before even making one.
Anet needs to understand that there is a big difference between PVP and PVE. In PVP you have equal teams with no pop up oni's or sometime overwilming odds, you have 4v4 8v8 and 12v12. Were as in PVE you have 8 v ? anything from 1 to 30 at a time depending on how well you group handles their arrgo ring.
Now while it seems unfair that Anet caters to the PVP folks and tells the PVE folks tuff . They are the creators of one of the very few free on line games and bottom line that is why most of us are playing it. We can not see handing over 50 bucks for the game then having to pay more money to play it. I have paid to pay and have had the same issues in those games as in this one , But in those I felt like I should have had a lot more say in any changes to skills/spells
due to having to pay those monthly fees. Plus Anet has kept the game PK(player kill) free except in PVP. But even there you do not lose any of your gold or equipment.
I would also be very surprized to see Anet read every post made on every board and make changes back after a nerf. But it is nice to have a place such as this one to rant and rave about things we do not like and things we love about the game.
Anet needs to understand that there is a big difference between PVP and PVE. In PVP you have equal teams with no pop up oni's or sometime overwilming odds, you have 4v4 8v8 and 12v12. Were as in PVE you have 8 v ? anything from 1 to 30 at a time depending on how well you group handles their arrgo ring.
Now while it seems unfair that Anet caters to the PVP folks and tells the PVE folks tuff . They are the creators of one of the very few free on line games and bottom line that is why most of us are playing it. We can not see handing over 50 bucks for the game then having to pay more money to play it. I have paid to pay and have had the same issues in those games as in this one , But in those I felt like I should have had a lot more say in any changes to skills/spells
due to having to pay those monthly fees. Plus Anet has kept the game PK(player kill) free except in PVP. But even there you do not lose any of your gold or equipment.
I would also be very surprized to see Anet read every post made on every board and make changes back after a nerf. But it is nice to have a place such as this one to rant and rave about things we do not like and things we love about the game.
Glasswalker
This was said by several, so I have no specific quote. But they do make the balance changes for PvP almost exclusively, because nobody complains that Kappas or Avicara are overpowered. By the same token, if the Assassin on your team kills too easily or no one in your party ever dies, there is little to complain about. But if you can say that about the other team in PvP, that's when there is a problem.
The only issue in PvE that means a nerf or 'balance change' is in order is when a specific class can't get a PUG even when they offer to pay, or if you do get in a group and everyone assumes you are that one build -- you know the one.
For quite some time people have stated flat out that all Assassins just plain suck, and the only Rit worth running is the Rit Lord. I think this change was to encourage players to discover that they added more than 8 skills when they added the two new classes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeupo
The only issue in PvE that means a nerf or 'balance change' is in order is when a specific class can't get a PUG even when they offer to pay, or if you do get in a group and everyone assumes you are that one build -- you know the one.
For quite some time people have stated flat out that all Assassins just plain suck, and the only Rit worth running is the Rit Lord. I think this change was to encourage players to discover that they added more than 8 skills when they added the two new classes.
Quote:
We are considered sub par healers and sub par damage dealers. Most pve groups do not allow a ritualist to take advantage of the offensive spirits because of rushing.
Don't be what they want you to be, be what is most fun, and most effective for the group. They will discover after a Mission or after an Alliance Battle, or whatever that there is more to the Ritualist then was dreamed of in their philosophy.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xeupo
Signet of Creation is not really that much of a help in my experience. I only ritual lord in extremely high damage areas (read Urgoz Warren and other elite areas) where the signet is not as valuable as another spirit or skill. In my tests after the skill change the signet has as much effect on shelter as it does on displacement which is just about 1 or 2 more seconds of life. The mass minion bombing is very effective however.
What would have happened in those 2 seconds (by my own accounting it's usually far more than that -- 10-14 or so) if you hadn't cast SoC? Probably at least one player death. How much Energy did the enemy team waste in that time? Is it then worth it? It also happens that Rits get my favorite resses in the game, so if someone does die, cast Spirit to Flesh on Restoration, although most don't carry either of those. I would have even recommended Soul Twisting, but there is no way in hell that skill will make a spammer's bar...
Cherno
True, rit lord skill getting nerfed wasn't really that big a deal because the charge times did get reduced and rit lord is still usable. The hardest part, even for those of us who don't want to be a spirit spammer, but even just a spirit user, is the hit to boon.
Resto and Channel got a boost? Good for them, I don't always want to be foreced into playing a subpar monk and a subpar ele. Ritualists are very good at spirits. Let's take the primary focus of the class, increase the cost of their spells and nerf the hell out of their energy managment making them barely serviceable at what they are supposed to do best. You can't really recoup your energy enough to even make it to the next pve group of enemies. I liked boon before not because it let me spam my spirits over and over in a single battle, but because it allowed me to be able to start even a single chain again for the next.
unmatchedfury
Quote:
Originally Posted by trankle
Does anyone really believe that the RL build was balanced in PvE? I played it quite a bit in higher level missions (both campaigns), not because it was fun (though it did have a zen quality, after a hard day of work), but because it was so powerful. It was hard to justify not playing it to a party. RL could stand far enough back that he never aggroed a single mob, and be at full effectiveness. This allowed him to wear multiple superior runes, which almost nobody does. On top of that, at least two spirits (shelter and union, possibly recuperation) could be kept up most of the time, offering blanket damage reduction with no knowledge of what challenges the party was facing. And if things got hairy, one button could heal the enitre party for over 400hp. In my opinion, a build which offers this kind of power with very little threat of danger, and with very little knowledge of the enemy, was not balanced. So, is it now? Shelter costs 25e, and dies faster. You now have to know when to place it. This means you actually have to know what threats the party will be facing, and plan for them. I don't think that's too much to ask. Monks have to do the same thing. By the way, spirit spammig rits don't have to use Rit Lord. Certain players are using combinations of Energizing Wind, Attuned was Songkai, and Serpent's Quickness to aid with recharge time and energy. It just takes more skill than before, as timing and spirit placement are less forgiving. I personally have been using Assassin's Promise for recharge and energy management. It's alot trickier, but much more fun and challenging at the same time. And still effective. Speaking of, does nobody play offensive spirits in PvE? The power offered by offensive spirits and Painful Bond is pretty amazing, and using Assassin's Promise almost guarantees that mobility and energy aren't an issue in PvE. I suggest that those who can't find a role in the Rit class give this (or the other Rit lines) a try before writing off the class. communing and channeling sync very well. there are quite a fwe spells in channeling that require spirits to e usefull. i use 1 painful bond 2 gaze from beyond 3 spirit burn 4 esscense strike 5 pain 6 bloodsong 7 wanderlust 8 optional 115 dps with painful bond from spirits + whatever you chose to add with skills 2-4
ubermancer
I wish I was as leet and had as firm of a grip on game mechanics as the OP.
Xeupo
I agree, Glasswalker, that one should not be pigeon holed into playing just certain builds. I greatly enjoy out healing a monk as a ritualist in certain situations for instance or out damaging a warrior with the offensive spirits. Weapon spells on a pet is also entertaining. The only problem is pugs and other groups do not allow you to show what your class can do.
I overall dislike the principle of this nerf. It caters to the pvp crowd without regard to pve. Now in many pve areas I would agree the Ritual Lord was overpowered. At the same time, however, the Ritual Lord was extremely important for the survival of the party in other areas. Without a Ritual Lord some areas become all but impossible in a pug (such as Urgoz's Warren wolves). A pair of monks could not deal with such damage. When I played as a Ritual Lord in that mission (the elite areas was about the only place I would Ritual Lord outside of Thunderhead keep) I did often have problems with keeping the spirits up because of the large amounts of damage occuring. Of course bad aggro is the blame in those situations as well. Overall the argument about the Ritualist having better energy than other classes seems weak. The Ritualist is supposed to be different from all other classes. A good mesmer, for instance, does not have energy problems either. This does not require a lot of skill either to achieve (My mesmer is far from being the best around). In a way, nerfing boon of creation would be like nerfing a minion master's Soul Reaping ability with a similar result. I usually did not pack SoC in favor of shadowsong, dissonance, earthbind, or a host of other choices. I have noticed that Shelter is unusable in pve even with SoC, however.
Terra Xin
sorry, this was the first thing I noticed...
Quote:
but there is an enormous drawback... the rit doesnt have a HEAL PARTY...
Then goes on to say that monks have the divine favour bonus, but it doesnt work with HP my darling... | Anyway: Life + Feast of Souls = +200 life healed for all party members Not good enough? or is that too much healing?
unmatchedfury
indeed, feast of souls + spirit spam = ultamate heal aparty.
UncleTimmy
Wow, def a lot of insightful thoughts here
 good points on both sides. I do think some things are a given we all know, but may not know how to simplify:1. Guild Wars MAIN competetion is WoW. Wow was recognized by everyone as the best PvP game recently released the past few years. GW aimed at them, to steal their/curry new customers. Now, the best way to do that, when WoW ppl are paying and your ppl are not is.... Cater the game to them. So, when GvG or PvP says something, you best believe Anet is gonna jump, and jump fast. Its not cowering, its good business sense. Thats how they got 2 million boxes sold. 2. The Rit Lord (profession) DID get a nerf. Let's not split hairs and say the skill didnt, or this or that. There is no other way to say it when the character simply cannot perform as it normally did, no matter what changes you make to it, and slightly prop something else up that goes with it. If you have a 8 cylinder car with a throaty growl when you press on the pedal, and then take out two cylinders making it a 6, and THEN add a suped-up muffler to make it SOUND fast and say its basically the same car, well. That's a nerf. If they had added a supercharger to this "car" it would have been ok, then we could drop something else to add that, rez, poison removal; something. This job/profession got a nerf. Doesnt matter if the skill didnt. 3. People do NOT want a Offensive Rit in their group for PvE. Won't happen. Unless you are in the big giant guilds where ppl tend to go to Urgoz or something to try a build out WITH help, you arent gonna perfect it. And no one is going to invite a Rit who is "testing" a new build, esp if its offensive. Maybe a Rit can do one Beeeeeelion dps, but no one is gonna give you that chance. The min you head out and they DONT see Shelter in the top left corner of the screen, /resign. Hes a noob Rit. Laf and chuckles. Anet knows this, so they didnt boost the Channeling atts for PvE; guess what the Channeling atts got added for? You got it. PvP, GvG. Dress as a channeler, and youll be treated just like an Assassin or a Warrior is at Urgoz. 4. This game has limited play content. Although the replayability factor is high, the content is low. Once you finish the missions, which most you can do with henchies in less than 30 days, what do you do now? Well, lets see.... a) Do Elite missions. Oh wait, I have to hope someone will take me from an owning guild inside. Oh darn, no one is willing. So I guess Ill go... b) Do all the missions over/over/over till I get Masters. Wait, Im a Assassin looking for Masters in an Assassin unfriendly zone... darn, guess Ill go... c) Chest Run. Oh, ok. I did 50 chest runs and now I know this zone like the back of my hand and Im just getting loot for.. what? Meh, Ill go and.... d) oh. PvP is all thats left. And theres a LOT of that. Everywhere. Good thing I like games with short story dialogue, now I can go straight to killing ppl. Now I did have some fun with that, but in reality, I dont pay Anet a monthly fee so I dont feel I have the right to actually complain about anything they do. Even if I did pay, I agreed to the all powerful EULA and they can choose not to listen. I came from FFXI where I played for 4 years. That game was a grind, but it didnt seem like it cause there was so much to do after awhile. Stuff that took awhile. When the PvP came to FFXI and asked "Hey wheres the PVP?" We pointed them to Ballista and laughed when they came out saying "Thats it????" FFXI was a content heavy, PvE environment and they made no bones about it. If you were PvP, take this gruel and like it or leave. I guess this is just karma for us who prefer PvE but are between great MMOs atm. And btw, there is nothing wrong with a "cookie cutter" build. Some ppl just like to put a character on, set some skills and get to it, it being the event. I DO believe Anet should have made the jobs THEY feel to be overpowered in one way or another in PvP weaker in THAT environment; not the whole game because the AI just doesnt think/act like ppl, so why have a, yes nerf, that is intended to counter humans no longer effectively countering AI actions? If they do this just to PvP Rits, then the PvP ppl get what they want, easier times to defeat Guild B, and the PvE ppl still get to do what they want, do Urgoz or w/e. That seemed probably so simple that they probably discounted it the minute someone said it at the table. And as far as cookie-cutter builds are concerned, I dont hear anyone~ PvP or PvE saying "Why are you playing a cookie cutter monk? You should experiment and get creative." So cookies do have their place on the table and Rit Lord was a good one in PvE, not overpowering, but necessary. 5. With the release of Nightfall, you'd have two potentially competing classes of support.. Paragon and Rit. If Rit is as strong as it was, no matter how nice looking Paragon armor is (and it IS beautiful) who would still pick a Paragon over a Rit Lord build? After the novelty wore off, it would have been business as usual just like it was for the Red headed Assassin ( love to point out how badly played that character was/is) ^^ Paragon looks to be a half protector, half attack half buff. I still see nothing wrong with having a Rit as a Prot character base. Ppl dont HAVE to play it that way, but if they choose to, they should have the choice. Overall, again I wouldnt complain too loudly to Anet personally. Its free till Vanguard comes along and the Urgoz/Deep runs are the most fun a PvE person can have in the game, provided he/she gets a good crew. I would appeal to Anet to consider a "inside the GvG hall" nerf only. It would be a win-win anyway you slice it. After all, there are things you CAN use/do in PvP you CANT use outside in PvE yet, right?^^
Minus Sign
Alright. Lets see if we can hash out what all has happened here.
Originally Posted by Formula97
Basically, the entire meta-game for the Ritualist--Pve and PvP--revolved around a single build for the character to be effective. It didn't matter what game you wanted to play if you weren't a communing-skill-spammer-rit-lord, you sucked. So, what do they do? They buff the snot out of the Rits other skills and nerf the Rit Lord prot builds core skills to cut down some of its flexibility. Quote: They may have buffed a lot of other skills, but if they buff skill lines that no one wants to use anyway, who cares?
Sums up the argument pretty nicely, yes? Why did no one want to play these other skills? Lets be honest: because there were--in all too many cases with the Rit--things out there in the other proffesions that could do the job much better.
And lets be honest here: Rit lord needed a nerf. As has been stated, Rit Lord was one of a very few builds that had no major energy issues in combat; the only prot build that could run non-stop without a battery. heck; for Bspike, Rit Lord prot WAS a battery. Every couple seconds something died either from Rit Lord cycles or its own prot conditions and Soul reaping kicked in. Revolving around Boon of Creation and Ritual lord the way we did, we were basicall running two elites in game. Alone, these skills were quite powerful in game. Together, they were (are still in a big way) uber. They haven't nerfed the Ritualist guys. They nerfed one build. If they nerf Boon Prot, will monks die out? Try /ranger with Energizing Wind before you complain about Shelters cost. Go offensive Rit Lord and watch your DPS explode. Try CHANNELING! You can now. And the reason why you can, is because these skills work. Nerfed the Rit? Hardly. try playing with some of the skills you know 'suck". You might be surprised what ELSE your Rit can do now. Just my 2g (from another Rit Lord). dgb
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleTimmy
d) oh. PvP is all thats left. And theres a LOT of that. Everywhere. Good thing I like games with short story dialogue, now I can go straight to killing ppl.
If you honestly think PVP has a lot of content, go compare it to PVE. From memory this is what PVP has.
12 Guild Halls (Hunters, Wizards, Warriors, Frozen, Druids, Dead, Nomads, Burning, Meditation, Jade, Stone, Imperial) 11 Arenas (Fire Map, Fort Koga, Ascalon, Shiverpeaks, Shiverpeaks2, Desert, Kryta map, Jade, Stone, Shing Jea, Kaineng) 2 Bastardised hybrids that nobody likes (FA and JQ) 5 AB maps 10 HA maps (Underworld, Burial Mounds, Broken Tower, Scarred Earth, Unholy Temples, Dark Chamber, Courtyard, Sacred Temples, The Vault, The Hall of Heroes) 40 Maps total. Most of which are about a tenth of the size of the average PVE map. PVP gets the balances, this is true (although there are some notable exceptions), but to complain that PVP takes content development away from PVE is false. PVP is as content defficient as PVE is.
unmatchedfury
I'd like very much to ask what can the rit now do better than another class?
because mass prot was the only thing. It is the very definition of rit. Nerfing rit lord took away the ability of a rit to do its job. NOw it does nothing. The rit is NOT a jack-of-all-trades class. it is a ward/spirit/ enviroment controler now it doesn't do it as well as it used too. the ritulist is now useless in higher lvl PvP. sure you can go channeling in RA and maybe TA and get a few wins. but who needs rits for dmg when you've got warriors? who needs rits for healing when you've got monks? and how needs rits for protection when you've got "gasp" monks... rits can't do it better, its why they are the least used class in PvP, and its why their plight won't get any better with two new classes on the scene. Don't get me wrong i love rits. Its my favorite class. but it doesnt have anything unique to offer a GvG team anymore. The PvP rit at high levels is dead. All you can do now is channel in RA... |
